Is 'Vegan Meat' Just MEAT?

Ogdred Weary

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#92
I would know, trust me
I think most people would most of the time, whether they are veggie, vegan or carnivore.

One of the grey areas (quite literally grey in some cases) is highly processed meat which has been so fucked around with and had so much added to it that it doesn't really resemble meat anymore - think the weird grey.brown clumps in a Ginsters pasty *shudders*. I've read that the typical "hotdog" suages you buy in packs or a tin have at least as much soy as they do "meat" in them. They certainly have an odd textures.

McDonalds claim their burgers are "100% beef" yet don't have the texture of meat. I dare say it is all "cow" if not "beef" but it's been buggered about with so much it's a kind of Frankenmeat.
 

James_H

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#96
What we might be approaching is an 'uncanny valley' situation, where food technology has progressed to the point where vegan food can almost successfully mimic other kinds of food. I think the aquafaba thing I mentioned is very ingenious: the substance mimics egg whites in most cooking situations. I've had vegan 'cheese' and I wouldn't mistake it for the real thing, but it had a strong reminiscence to cheese while being very slightly 'off' in every regard (flavour, texture). I've had a vegan cake with 'cream' icing that was similarly close-but-no-cigar.
 

Yithian

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#97
I just looked up Pescatarian, seems like i am an ovo lactose one, cause i eat fish and eggs wtf, im a veggie, screw the added words


I am, technically speaking, a pescatarian, but I certainly don't waste any time with categories and labels.

I haven't (deliberately) eaten 'land-flesh' for coming up on sixteen or seventeen years. I kind of like that ridiculous term...

But then the reason I inconvenience myself so is nothing to do with health or righteousness, and I'm completely non-prescriptive: you have whatever the hell you like on your plate. If I had the opportunity to hunt and kill rabbit, deer, boar or what-have-you, I'd be happy to consume it; in fact, if I had killed such creatures, I'd damned well insist on eating them so that they didn't die pointlessly, but for the moment I manage a healthy and very enjoyable diet without doing so--and so I prefer not to. To be honest, I know that I have got decidedly more squeamish about such activities as I've aged. When younger, I ate my catch on fishing trips and gutted a rabbit with my knife, but I'm more than a bit rusty and I suspect may baulk at doing so today--I'd have to see.

I believe Alan Clark had a similar philosophy. I recall reading in his diaries how he had served up venison he had killed personally, a rare-step beyond his fairly strict vegetarianism that extended to protesting against live-exports.

The memorable exchange below between Alan Clarke and John Pilger shows how you can get rather tied in knots as soon as you lay down principles you wish to extend beyond your own consciousness and into that of others. People generally do what they are comfortable doing, and what they are comfortable doing is a product of a great many facts. I'm happy with people eating (and not eating) whatever they feel comfortable with. It also shows that 'vegetarians = nice' is far from being a necessary truth. Most people in history had not the luxury of agonising over their sustenance. As far as I am concerned, decent meat substitutes are welcome as they a) make everybody's life easier, b) provide more options. Who doesn't want a larger menu to order from?

The fact that a small proportion of vegan/vegetarians believe that there could be a conspiracy to force them clandestinely to eat meat against their will is a product of pure paranoia. My experience is that the first and only time most omnivorous people give thought to the dietary prohibitions of others is when they've been socially inconvenienced or inadequately hosted by them. The 'reprisal', if any, will be an end to future invites! In contrast, a hardcore of vegans seem to believe that 'meat-eater = morally bad', and as the morally bad are capable of treachery, they might be smuggling meat into me! In reality, the more realistic equation should be 'most people = lazy, incurious and uninterested in others', which doesn't offer much grounds for supposing a conspiracy in action.

Screenshot 2019-07-15 at 23.12.09.png

Source:
https://books.google.co.kr/books?id...KYKHZmWCbMQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
Last edited:

Ogdred Weary

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#98
There are vegan/veggie types who openly judge meat eaters I'm sure but I've yet to meet one, though conversely I've encountered a small number of meat eaters who complain that vegans and veggies are like that. Some may be speaking from experience but I suspect that most have just decided that it's true and enjoy having something to complain about.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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I suppose the problem is, nowadays, everything has to have labels, and be categorised. Fifteen million* different labels depending on what type of food one does or does not eat. Ovo-lacto-pesto-pesca-veget-arian etc. Does it really matter? No, probably not.

What does matter is whether we are all allowed to eat whatever we want without reprisals from others. Over the years I've learned not to call myself "vegetarian" if anyone asks about my food requirements. I tend to say "I don't eat meat". Why? Because the label "vegetarian" has often garnered, from colleagues and the like, comments or questions about what I think about animal cruelty or why am I wearing leather shoes, or whatever. It's darned annoying. I don't eat meat because I don't fancy eating it, that's why. Don't lump me in with some 'group' or other. I couldn't give too hoots about what anyone else eats as long as they don't shove their choices down my throat.

Back on the subject though... are we heading down a road, do we think, with our aquafaba egg-substitute and the like, of all food being processed... I mean, completely processed? Where nothing will be natural anymore? Like some sort of 'Space Odyssey 2001' meal replacement scenario?

I do hope not.

*ok, a slight exaggeration.

:)
 

GNC

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I just looked up what ‘Vish’ is. Apparently it derives from banana blossom.

So... instead of fish, the alternative is a substitute that comes from the other side of the world with a huge carbon footprint.
Bananas don't have a huge carbon footprint at all, far less than beef and even pizza. Because they're transported by boat, since they take ages to ripen, they're a very eco-friendly food. Which makes it ironic that thanks to global warming, they're increasingly endangered.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Bananas don't have a huge carbon footprint at all, far less than beef and even pizza. Because they're transported by boat, since they take ages to ripen, they're a very eco-friendly food. Which makes it ironic that thanks to global warming, they're increasingly endangered.
http://www.industrytap.com/worlds-1...pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182

Granted, you said boats and that article is about ships. Boats are probably fine, Ratty and Moley certainly had a lot fun in them.
 

GNC

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Mythopoeika

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You'd have probably been fine if you'd eaten it anyway, food manufacturing hygiene standards are at human consumption level for dog food. People are even employed to taste test dog food. Myself and the kid next door used to eat dog biscuits for a laugh sometimes when we were nippers.
That's how 'Scooby Snacks' came about. They were for dogs and humans.
 
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A lot of big spiders get here in among the bananas.


I was in Tesco and had asked my mother if there was anything I could get her. She asked for a giant tub of yogurt and a bunch of bananas. Got them, in the basket, got the things I wanted and went to the checkout.
The last thing I put on the conveyor was the bananas and a huge cockroach fell out and landed on its back, legs wriggling. I bet it was over an inch long.
I sent it to cockroach heaven by slamming the yogurt pot on top of it. I warned the checkout lady what was under the pot and she called an assistant who removed it with paper towels.
Did I want a new yogurt, or was this one ok?
Oh, I think I definitely want a new one, thanks. That one has guts on it.
 

Mythopoeika

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A lot of big spiders get here in among the bananas.


I was in Tesco and had asked my mother if there was anything I could get her. She asked for a giant tub of yogurt and a bunch of bananas. Got them, in the basket, got the things I wanted and went to the checkout.
The last thing I put on the conveyor was the bananas and a huge cockroach fell out and landed on its back, legs wriggling. I bet it was over an inch long.
I sent it to cockroach heaven by slamming the yogurt pot on top of it. I warned the checkout lady what was under the pot and she called an assistant who removed it with paper towels.
Did I want a new yogurt, or was this one ok?
Oh, I think I definitely want a new one, thanks. That one has guts on it.
You Yog-hurt it!
 

brownmane

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I think the aquafaba thing I mentioned is very ingenious: the substance mimics egg whites in most cooking situations.
Thanks. You answered my question before I asked.

I don't worry about what I eat, though industrial corporate owned farming does bother me. I do eat less meat than I used to (I grew up on a family owned dairy farm, and have always known where meat comes from), but it stems more from cost, taste and that my cooking skills don't always make something palatable.

But why are there not names for vegan meat replacements that don't try to play on the meat idea? Why are there not vegan dishes that just have their own names? Omelette, quiche, these recipe names basically identify eggs as the main item. Ratatouille, people know has eggplant. Tofu is the only item that I can think of as a meat replacement that has its own name and most people know is a soybean product.

I don't know if I'm posing my question clearly. But labelling things clearly especially foodstuffs make people less suspicious of what they are eating IMO. And food is obviously more processed and, in general, not as healthy as unprocessed food. Veggies and fruit and water and grains etc less processed are definitely more recognizable and tend to be more trusted as ok to eat regardless of how they are categorized.
 

Mrs Migs

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There are vegan/veggie types who openly judge meat eaters I'm sure but I've yet to meet one, though conversely I've encountered a small number of meat eaters who complain that vegans and veggies are like that. Some may be speaking from experience but I suspect that most have just decided that it's true and enjoy having something to complain about.
Funny you should ask - an acquaintance of mine and his wife have a small business making and selling jerky, both animal derived and vegan (Susie is a vegetarian and makes fabulous fruit jerky). Anyway, their business has come to the attention of a woman on FB who describes herself as a “militant vegan” and has her own FB group with 1600 followers. Right now she is trolling the business and encouraging her followers to do so. She’s posted their personal details and is actively encouraging others to abuse them. Some of the rhetoric is VILE, particularly on the vegan side. Friend and wife have been advised to involve the police and screenshot everything.
Makes me wonder if there’s something missing in the vegan diet that makes some of them so nasty...
 

Lb8535

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Funny you should ask - an acquaintance of mine and his wife have a small business making and selling jerky, both animal derived and vegan (Susie is a vegetarian and makes fabulous fruit jerky). Anyway, their business has come to the attention of a woman on FB who describes herself as a “militant vegan” and has her own FB group with 1600 followers. Right now she is trolling the business and encouraging her followers to do so. She’s posted their personal details and is actively encouraging others to abuse them. Some of the rhetoric is VILE, particularly on the vegan side. Friend and wife have been advised to involve the police and screenshot everything.
Makes me wonder if there’s something missing in the vegan diet that makes some of them so nasty...
Speaking as a universally tolerant vegetarian, your friends should involve the police now, and this is one of those situations, group formed to abuse individuals, where facebook actually will do something, they will probably cancel the account.
 

Mrs Migs

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Speaking as a universally tolerant vegetarian, your friends should involve the police now, and this is one of those situations, group formed to abuse individuals, where facebook actually will do something, they will probably cancel the account.
Thank you. I’ve passed on your advice.
 

Frideswide

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Makes me wonder if there’s something missing in the vegan diet that makes some of them so nasty...
There are some nasty people in every group - I don't think the unpleasant ones in this particular one are any worse than the bad apples in other groups.

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