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Italian Flat-Earthers' Train Antics

ginoide

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Sep 7, 2001
Messages
811
ok, I'll post a google translation of the article and try to improve it a little bit. here's the link anyway. this happened in northern italy, near milan. please notice that the four people involved come from four very disparate points of Italy: Verona is in the North-east, messina in the most extreme South (sicily), savona in the North west, ancona in the center (on the eastern coast). this in my opinion adds to the almost men-in-blackish weirdness of the event.

https://www.corriere.it/cronache/19...ti-31cd1748-4a3a-11e9-a7a3-5683e4dbacbc.shtml

"We are Flat-Earthers, diplomatic ambassadors outside any planetary jurisdiction". With these words four passengers between the ages of 26 and 43 have refused to hand over the documents to the carabinieri who had boarded the Intercity train, called by the conductor. The four had no ticket and - says the "Provincia Pavese" newspaper on Tuesday - they refused to be identified. Also because they didn't have identity cards. Not a carelessness, but a conscious choice. Due to the prolongation of the controls and the discussion, the Milan-Ventimiglia train remained at the Pavia station for almost an hour. The behavior of the four people (a 43-year-old from Verona, a 37-year-old from Messina, a 37-year-old from Savona and a 26-year-old from Ancona) causeed them to be reported for interruption of public service and refusal to provide ID. Let's make it clear: according to the Carabinieri, the four- all without criminal records - were perfectly capable of understanding and wanting (the correct translation is escaping me right now: they were "compos sui", in their full mental faculties). None of them - says a detective to Corriere.it - was drunk. And, as of what transpired during what was a real interrogation, (...), they were absolutely aware. In short, convinced Flat-Earthers willing to challenge the law to state their belief against science, evidence and logic.

At the Pavia station

The incident occurred while train was in the Pavia station. Here the controller ("controllore": the guy who checks your tickets on the train) asked for the tickets. But the four exhibited a laminated sheet called "self-determination", claiming them to be "subjects of international pre-juridical law", "diplomatic ambassadors outside of every planetary jurisdiction" and "states of themselves" (or "their own states"): consequently, they say, control carried out against them was an "attack on a free state pursued by the world court". That's not all. They defined themselves "citizens of the world" who had the right to free travel. Even if it is difficult to establish what the flat-earth belief has to do with getting on the train without a ticket.

The Intercity stopped

At this point the train conductor - given that the four had no intention of paying the debt - warned the railway police of Pavia. The call (still the account of the Province) was passed to the carabinieri who sent a crew of the mobile radio unit to the station. In the meantime, the Intercity stopped to wait for the outcome of the verification on board. The carabinieri, accompanied by Trenitalia staff, asked the documents from the "flat-earthers". But they were surprised when they saw the laminated "self-determination" sheet. The flat-earthers' eyes showed no shade of a doubt. The four men were taken to the Carabinieri place where they were identified and reported. They left on foot, headed for no one knows where.
 
Sounds like these people had two separate erroneous beliefs. I guess that believing one impossible thing may act as a gateway drug to more such beliefs, or maybe there's a predisposition to illogical and paranoid convictions.
 
Let's make it clear: according to the Carabinieri, the four- ... were perfectly capable of understanding and wanting (the correct translation is escaping me right now: they were "compos sui", in their full mental faculties).

The usual expression used in English is the Latin compos mentis, or just "of sound mind". I'm guessing that in your post, sui refers to "self?

(It is not the case that compos mentis is well-rotted mint leaves dug into the garden to fertilise the oil.)

Would it be something similar to the American sovereign citizen crap? They seem to think they can do what they want and do not have to follow laws

Not just Americans. Some English do it too, which is probably a relic of empire.

There are also cases of unrecognised micronations such as the Principality of Sealand. This is perhaps a closer parallel to the story: a small number of people unilaterally declaring some degree of sovereignty and being surprised when the authorities disagree.

Sounds like these people had two separate erroneous beliefs. I guess that believing one impossible thing may act as a gateway drug to more such beliefs, or maybe there's a predisposition to illogical and paranoid convictions.

If you can believe 3 impossible things before breakfast, you can take a train and have your eggs and bacon at Milliways.
 
...Not just Americans. Some English do it too, which is probably a relic of empire...

Yes - the Freemen of the Land. We have at least one thread dedicated to them here.

Not so much a relic of empire I think - I suspect they believe that the rights they claim go back much further than that; however, as I said back on that thread, these ancient 'rights' appear to be generally employed, not as 'a glorious blow for life, liberty and individual freedom - rather a way of justifying bad driving and getting out of paying TV licenses and willingly accrued debts'.
 
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I'm a bit baffled by their belief that being 'outside any planetary jurisdiction' meant that they didn't have to pay to travel by public transport. How does that work? I can fully understand their wish not to produce identity documents or to state their beliefs, etc, but not to pay for a public service that costs money to run... I'm fairly sure that even the occupants of Alpha Centauri would have to buy a ticket for the train.
 
I'm a bit baffled by their belief that being 'outside any planetary jurisdiction' meant that they didn't have to pay to travel by public transport. How does that work? I can fully understand their wish not to produce identity documents or to state their beliefs, etc, but not to pay for a public service that costs money to run... I'm fairly sure that even the occupants of Alpha Centauri would have to buy a ticket for the train.
*Waves hand* you have never heard of Jedi mind tricks.
 
I know socialists who also believe they should not have to buy train tickets.
 
Do they buy train tickets though?

I don't know.

The idea of free public transport isn't an outlier concept though. Luxemburg has introduced free public transport.

Here's a list of cities which provide free public transport: https://freepublictransport.info/city/

Anyway, this is a thread about Flat Earthers who are also Freemen. Your post about socialists and my response is taking it off topic and into decidedly mainstream political debates.
 
Perhaps something lost in translation, but if they're claiming diplomatic immunity this suggests they have come from a Flat Earth to visit our one. A new spin on Flerthery to be sure!
 
Dang tourists and their spherical coins! Pain in the arse.
 
It occurred to me the other day, if the earth is flat how do they explain water going down the plug hole opposite ways in different hemispheres? This only occurred to me as we may be going to Sri Lanka next year and if it one of the first things that I want to do!

actually, according to flat earthers, this is a myth. https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5149.0
 
It occurred to me the other day, if the earth is flat how do they explain water going down the plug hole opposite ways in different hemispheres? This only occurred to me as we may be going to Sri Lanka next year and if it one of the first things that I want to do!
Urban myth I’m afraid, there are too many other contributing factors which override any effect.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coriolis-effect/
 
Thank you for that. I just wanted to see if it were true by seeing it myself.
 
Flat-earthers around the world seem mainly to be about being anti-authority - don't believe the teachers, scientists, the government. This fits right in. Also goes to show that if everyone just acted via their own accord against authority and rules, it wouldn't be a very nice place to live, this earth, whatever shape you choose to make it.
 
There is a good rotational question to put to flat earthers, though, even if the plughole one is bunk:

How come the *stars* turn in opposite directions in opposite hemispheres?

(EDIT: I say 'good', but I appreciate there are always "it's a projection" type answers which are immune to logic!)
 
Flat-earthers around the world seem mainly to be about being anti-authority - don't believe the teachers, scientists, the government. This fits right in. Also goes to show that if everyone just acted via their own accord against authority and rules, it wouldn't be a very nice place to live, this earth, whatever shape you choose to make it.

Watched a recent doco on Netflix and most of the flat-earth bigwigs seemed to be in it for the "fame" that it garners. Also, it pays the bills with podcasts, books, speaking at conferences, etc.

Apart from one guy I don't think they are anti-establishment at all.

Not dissimilar to how you make a living Sharon. Your beliefs are just a lot less batshit crazy.

Better to be a weird fish in a strange pond than an invisible fish in a mundane pond I guess.
 
Watched a recent doco on Netflix and most of the flat-earth bigwigs seemed to be in it for the "fame" that it garners. Also, it pays the bills with podcasts, books, speaking at conferences, etc.

Apart from one guy I don't think they are anti-establishment at all.

They reject science, the government, NASA, etc. They rely only on their own (subjective) eyes. That’s their foundation: Reject the established reality and substitute their own. That is entirely anti-authority. The fame is a bonus they do enjoy but not the primarily motivation. The aim seems to be one of finding their place and meeting their needs in a messed up modern society we have.

Speaking of Behind the Curve, which was excellent, there is more to it than most people think. One interesting point made, that I also made in my book, is that people who attempt to use science to serve their individual purposes are scientists that fell through the cracks.

https://sharonahill.com/2019/03/21/...-americans-one-message-from-behind-the-curve/
 
Watched a recent doco on Netflix and most of the flat-earth bigwigs seemed to be in it for the "fame" that it garners. Also, it pays the bills with podcasts, books, speaking at conferences, etc.

Apart from one guy I don't think they are anti-establishment at all.

Went to the Flat Earth shop in Inverness and it was pretty much conspiracy theories by the yard! They bought into them all.
 
"How come the *stars* turn in opposite directions in opposite hemispheres? "

How do you mean?
 
"How come the *stars* turn in opposite directions in opposite hemispheres? "

How do you mean?

Sorry, wasn't very clear, was I :)

I mean that the stars appear to move from east to west as the earth spins, which in the Northern hemisphere is anti-clockwise but in the Southern hemisphere it's clockwise.

If the world was a flat rotating disc, the spin would be in the same direction from any viewpoint (laying aside exotic answers about projections etc. Or subsets of flat earthers who think people live on the underside as well... I don't know if there are any of those)

Went to the Flat Earth shop in Inverness and it was pretty much conspiracy theories by the yard! They bought into them all.

There's a lot of "FLAT EARTH" graffiti along the A9. Wonder if it's a guerilla marketing campaign for the shop!

(Aside: in the middle of whisky country, one bit has been amended to read "PEATY EARTH" :lolling:)
 
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