It's Paedogeddon! (Is Paedophilia Increasing?)

Swifty

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The word alleged implied that.
The word alleged exonerates a person until the correct authorities have investigated allegations against a person. Innocent people have been known in the past to confess to all sorts of crimes out of fear.
 

Yithian

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So you post a video, of a man who has not been convicted. I'm not sure FT's lawyers will like that.
Correct: removed.

If memory serves, we've had a similar video posted this year and I said then that this is inappropriate in terms of tone and legally stupid for FT to allow. Even if the man is guilty, disseminating these kinds of videos can influence potential court cases. There is no reason at all to suppose that the claims made by those who produce or feature in the footage are accurate, and it is extremely foolhardy to make them your legal justification for spreading such material.

Swifty, fewer vigilantes, gypsy fights, diss-tracks, drug addicts and 'chav watching' videos, please (I'm not being specific: 'that kind of thing'). It's sordid and a step from cock-fighting, bullying and laughing at the homeless. Plus, FT does not want any Imperial legal entanglements.
 

Megadeth1977

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The word alleged exonerates a person until the correct authorities have investigated allegations against a person. Innocent people have been known in the past to confess to all sorts of crimes out of fear.
Swifty mate you've got to stop posting stuff like that or may find yourself get a temp ban or a permanent one.
 

Yithian

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Min Bannister

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The website is unavailable in Europe but yes, it does seem difficult to imagine how that person can just be set free in a classroom again.
 

escargot

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Bronx teacher who performed oral sex on 14-year-old gets 10 years probation, avoids jail, keeps teaching certificate
The link takes you to a page that's unavailable here. However, a quick google of the headline told me that the teacher was a 30 year-old woman who was treated leniently from the start, e.g. she wasn't immediately sacked but was moved to a non pupil-contact role.

Another site with the same story

The problem is the double standards, not about the abuser, but rather the victim. A boy of 14 having sexual contact with a woman who is in authority over him is being exploited. It's not less serious than if it were a male (or female) teacher and a girl of 14. Sadly, in this case the law thinks it is.
 

escargot

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Yup .. hence me posting this in the paedo thread
eeewww, Savile was sooo loathsome. I'd hated him since I was a teenager when I first learned of his predilection for younger girls. (In his autobiography for a start.)

As far as I knew, everyone was aware that he wasn't to be trusted around kids. It wasn't a surprise to me when it all came out after his death and I really did wonder why anyone in the world wasn't wise to him.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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The link takes you to a page that's unavailable here. However, a quick google of the headline told me that the teacher was a 30 year-old woman who was treated leniently from the start, e.g. she wasn't immediately sacked but was moved to a non pupil-contact role.

Another site with the same story

The problem is the double standards, not about the abuser, but rather the victim. A boy of 14 having sexual contact with a woman who is in authority over him is being exploited. It's not less serious than if it were a male (or female) teacher and a girl of 14. Sadly, in this case the law thinks it is.
Well said. :agree:
 

Ogdred Weary

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eeewww, Savile was sooo loathsome. I'd hated him since I was a teenager when I first learned of his predilection for younger girls. (In his autobiography for a start.)

As far as I knew, everyone was aware that he wasn't to be trusted around kids. It wasn't a surprise to me when it all came out after his death and I really did wonder why anyone in the world wasn't wise to him.
When all the allegations started to come to light and people older than, ranging from a friend who is seven years older, to people older than my parent's all started saying stuff like "I always though there was something up with him". I' sure many people did, I'm slightly too young to be aware. -he was more or less off "regular" TV scheduling by the time I was in my teens, though he'd turn up on Xmas TOTP or charity specials.

Looking back at all times he essentially hid in plain sight and more or less flaunted his perversions it's astounding how he got away with it and ably demonstrates the failings of people in general as well as he and many others in particular.
 

JamesWhitehead

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there was something up with him
Our own thread devoted to this subject starts in 2002, some nine years before his death.

As the video above shows, he was adept, if not exactly convincing, at deflecting criticism. The kids in that show from 1988 ask some intelligent and articulate questions but the format is devised to prevent responses to his evasions and red herrings. No doubt his appearance in such an arena was dependent on control of the show. He repeatedly adverts to his appearance and persona as a media game in which he participates; then he contradicts it repeatedly with the "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" disclaimer. All quite disorienting but he seems right about the way the media protected him! :mad:
 

Ogdred Weary

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I've seen that clip before I was pleasantly surprised at how articulate the young people are and I'm not one of the hating-on-young brigade either. I was also struck by how old fashioned the show and mannerisms of the audience are, I was alive at the time and less than a decade younger than those teenagers, yet it already seems a little "olde worlde".
 

Ogdred Weary

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Is he fit for trial? There are at least two men who have alleged a high level paedophile ring, aren't there? My guess is that there may be mental health issues that may prevent trial in both/all cases.
 

escargot

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Looking back at all times he essentially hid in plain sight and more or less flaunted his perversions it's astounding how he got away with it and ably demonstrates the failings of people in general as well as he and many others in particular.
Exactly. Savile was able to do all sorts because he had friends in high places and was responsible for bringing in a lot of charity money. Nobody succeeded in rocking his boat, although some tried. The best advice nurses could give to young people on wards where he visited was to pretend to be asleep.
 

Yithian

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Michael Jackson's family are upset about a new documentary film called Leaving Neverland that focuses on the allegations made about him ..

https://news.avclub.com/michael-jacksons-family-decries-leaving-neverland-docum-1832124444
I haven't seen the documentary and I have strong suspicions that Michael Jackson may have been unsavoury, but I've read that the film takes all allegations as true and fails to interview critical and dissenting voices.

Reserving judgment all the same.
 

Swifty

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I haven't seen the documentary and I have strong suspicions that Michael Jackson may have been unsavoury, but I've read that the film takes all allegations as true and fails to interview critical and dissenting voices.

Reserving judgment all the same.
From the bits and pieces I've read and a few vids up about it so far on youtube, I'm not holding my breath that it's going to be objective.
 

Swifty

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As nothing could make me despise Jacko any more than I do I'm looking forward to seeing it, just in case there's a surprise.
Apparently the film is very graphic in the descriptions/allegations.
 

Megadeth1977

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I haven't seen the documentary and I have strong suspicions that Michael Jackson may have been unsavoury, but I've read that the film takes all allegations as true and fails to interview critical and dissenting voices.

Reserving judgment all the same.
Found not guilty by a court of law but let's keep kicking that dead horse.
 

Megadeth1977

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As nothing could make me despise Jacko any more than I do I'm looking forward to seeing it, just in case there's a surprise.
Found innocent but that doesn't matter because he can not defend himself because he's dead.
 

Yithian

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Found not guilty by a court of law but let's keep kicking that dead horse.
I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
Screen-Shot-2016-06-21-at-1.52.30-PM-750x400.png
 

Swifty

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I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
Didn't Germaine Greer also publish a 'coffee table' photography book of naked young boys? .. I certainly remember a TV interview she did around the mid 90's where her defence was "Well, men have been sexualising young girls and women to look like young girls for decades so what's wrong with this book?" .. that was the thrust of her argument anyway ..

I don't want to do a google search for it for obvious reasons ..
 
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