It's Paedogeddon! (Is Paedophilia Increasing?)

Ogdred Weary

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Good grief, man, what have you got against Gordon?
Well, of he doesn't like "normal" cheese he might like one of the vegan versions, the only one I've had was close enough to actual cheese he probably wouldn't like it but there are many.
 

Ogdred Weary

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That's what I heard it was like until comparatively recently. The stuff I had was comparable to the cheap generic stuff you get in a chain fast food burger, or a Kraft single. Neither of which are especially nice but are "cheese-like" enough, I think both probably don't contain much milk, some may even be "vegan" by default or cheapness.
 

gordonrutter

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Well, of he doesn't like "normal" cheese he might like one of the vegan versions, the only one I've had was close enough to actual cheese he probably wouldn't like it but there are many.
And people always say to me there are many types of cheese. I’ve made it to my venerable age of 21 without eating the stuff, I’m not going to start now. Thanks for the suggestion though.
 

WeeScottishLassie

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Not sure if this is the right place to mention it but did anyone watch the BBC documentary on Carl Beech the other night?

He must have been a seriously convincing and experienced liar.
 

AlchoPwn

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Not sure if this is the right place to mention it but did anyone watch the BBC documentary on Carl Beech the other night? He must have been a seriously convincing and experienced liar.
Or he was grossly set up by powerful people with plenty of acumen in such activities. The whole thing smells fishy imo. The outcome was too... neat.
 

Spookdaddy

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Or he was grossly set up by powerful people with plenty of acumen in such activities. The whole thing smells fishy imo. The outcome was too... neat.
Not neat at all for those accused. Or for the reputation of the police and CPS. And the proof of his dishonesty was pretty damn obvious, when the police finally started looking for it.

It's also worth pointing out that several of those interviewed - who were initially taken in by Beech, and are now convinced of his guilt - were survivors of abuse themselves.

He must have been a seriously convincing and experienced liar.
This. But he also tapped very effectively into a particular zeitgeist - which I think probably meant he had to be less convincing to satisfy an interviewer than at other times. The whole situation could have been predicted in the aftermath of the Savile furore - and, in fact, I think probably was. It's one of the reasons I have always been extremely uncomfortable with that whole horror-show.
 
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AlchoPwn

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Not neat at all for those accused. Or for the reputation of the police and CPS. And the proof of his dishonesty was pretty damn obvious, when the police finally started looking for it.

It's also worth pointing out that several of those interviewed - who were initially taken in by Beech, and are now convinced of his guilt - were survivors of abuse themselves.

This. But he also tapped very effectively into a particular zeitgeist - which I think probably meant he had to be less convincing to satisfy an interviewer than at other times. The whole situation could have been predicted in the aftermath of the Savile furore - and, in fact, I think probably was. It's one of the reasons I have always been extremely uncomfortable with that whole horror-show.
I find it unusual that a practicing pedophile would ever draw attention to themself in the fashion that Carl Beech did. He named and shamed a large number of powerful people, making them enemies out of sheer necessity if they were in fact innocent. These people no doubt had the means to conduct covert operations of the sort that could implicate Beech while exonerating themselves. Of course he wouldn't be the first victim who went on to become an abuser. The notion of a pedophile actively courting public attention in this fashion is unprecedented in my reading on the matter. What isn't unknown, is that victims who come forwards who are subsequently "stitched up" and sent to jail or a psychiatric institution, often to be killed in custody in a "mishap". Given the prevalence of the second outcome, and the lack of precedence for the first, I hope you see the reason for my suspicion.
 

Spookdaddy

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I find it unusual that a practicing pedophile would ever draw attention to themself in the fashion that Carl Beech did. He named and shamed a large number of powerful people, making them enemies out of sheer necessity if they were in fact innocent. These people no doubt had the means to conduct covert operations of the sort that could implicate Beech while exonerating themselves. Of course he wouldn't be the first victim who went on to become an abuser. The notion of a pedophile actively courting public attention in this fashion is unprecedented in my reading on the matter. What isn't unknown, is that victims who come forwards who are subsequently "stitched up" and sent to jail or a psychiatric institution, often to be killed in custody in a "mishap". Given the prevalence of the second outcome, and the lack of precedence for the first, I hope you see the reason for my suspicion.
This argument could of course be used as a trump card in any case where an accused is seen to hold any sort of power, and clearly very often is - usually with little in the way of supporting evidence; as if the argument is itself proof of the argument.

As to the 'prevalence of the second outcome' - I get that the belief that this happens is, in some circles, prevalent, but we'd need to see more in the way of actual proven examples to indicate anything like the actual ubiquity that usage implies. To be honest, I'm pretty sure such things have happened, and possibly still do - but the idea that there is a 'prevalence' of such events is based, it seems to me, on a very begged question.

In regard to paedophiles not courting attention in this way: Granted, it tends to occur after an accusation has been levelled against the individual in question, but in fact the subsequent accusation that other much more powerful people than them are paedophiles seems to be a stock form of misdirection used by accused men looking to draw attention away from themselves. This, combined with the sheer arrogance and entitlement that seems to be part of the character of many paedophiles, combined with the mindset that they are not in fact doing anything wrong in the first place and that it is society that has misunderstood the issue, means that even if the sequence of Beech's narrative might be unusual, the underlying elements it is based on are not. I'd argue that his behaviour was somewhat pre-emptive, rather than unprecedented - common elements, but in a different order.

In the Beech case, there are so many individual pieces of evidence that indicate the falsehoods involved, from so many disparate sources, all of which countered the original prevailing notions of the police and crown prosecution services (who would of course in other circumstances be considered part of that power protecting system if it suited the particular conspiracy in question, at the particular time) that in this case I am of the opinion that the courts eventually got it right, and that Beech was a liar and a narcissist whose biggest crime may have been to damage the future prosecution of real abusers with real victims.
 
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Kondoru

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It makes them sound like hackers `I have a right to do this...`

And I do believe that many get away completley with it...not even an initial investigation. I have heard too many horror stories.
 

WeeScottishLassie

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I find it unusual that a practicing pedophile would ever draw attention to themself in the fashion that Carl Beech did. He named and shamed a large number of powerful people, making them enemies out of sheer necessity if they were in fact innocent. These people no doubt had the means to conduct covert operations of the sort that could implicate Beech while exonerating themselves. Of course he wouldn't be the first victim who went on to become an abuser. The notion of a pedophile actively courting public attention in this fashion is unprecedented in my reading on the matter. What isn't unknown, is that victims who come forwards who are subsequently "stitched up" and sent to jail or a psychiatric institution, often to be killed in custody in a "mishap". Given the prevalence of the second outcome, and the lack of precedence for the first, I hope you see the reason for my suspicion.
Perhaps he was narcissistic enough to believe that he would never be questioned?

From what I know, compulsive liars tend to have a hugely inflated view of themselves and manipulative to the extreme.

They thrive off drama with little thought of the consequences.
 

pandacracker

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From what I know, compulsive liars tend to have a hugely inflated view of themselves and manipulative to the extreme.

They thrive off drama with little thought of the consequences.

I briefly knew someone like that. Ironically I was being directed by him in a fringe play in London.

But could also be quite charming.

Brrr...
 

escargot

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Do we have a thread on compulsive lying?
(Actually that's a silly question to ask you lot.)
 

Peripart

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Do we have a thread on compulsive lying?
(Actually that's a silly question to ask you lot.)
No, but we should. It seems like quite a few of us may have met one of these fantasists. I could tell you about the guy who had been a brain surgeon in the SAS. What am I saying? That one was me, and it's true.
 

Spookdaddy

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Not that I can find...
Hmm, I thought there was. I seem to recall once being inspired by a thread to relate the utterly breathtaking bullshit I get to hear from the owner of the property next door to mine - although I don't think I ever got around to it.

Edit: On reflection, the inspiration may well have been that particular post - rather than the specific subject of a thread.
 

Yithian

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