It's Paedogeddon! (Is Paedophilia Increasing?)

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
37,932
Reaction score
57,047
Points
334
Location
HM The Tower of London
There was a program on BBC4 last week called storyville which was about the poor kids in Guernseys children's home.

It was a really interesting watch and especially about the politics there and how it affected the investigation.

I remember it all coming out at the time but I didn't realise that it was so long ago.

The bit when they thought they had discovered some kids bodies by the cadaver dogs. They thought they had found a piece of skull but it seemingly turned into a bit of coconut.

Hope this is the right place to put it but I thought it was worth mentioning and recommending watching.

There was a journalist who was interviewed and shocked me when he said that he was a Jimmy Saville spectic.
I used to read the Jimmy Savile thread on the D*v*d *ck* messageboard until I was banned for some reason* and they were all over him, Guernsey, Ted Heath, Lord Mountbatten, Dolphin Square, you name it. It was apparently all part of the same conspiracy.

(One of my posts on'ere was quoted there, about Savile being a Bevin Boy in the war, conscripted to work digging coal while the regular miners were serving in the Forces. I'd heard him talking about it on t'wireless.)

A couple of years ago I was working with a Guernsey woman. She told me she and her younger brother had been in a care home there and it was a pretty dreadful experience. I hoped to gently pump her next time we met but we didn't bump into each other again.

*One day my username just wouldn't log in. I had the correct password, nothing out of the ordinary. No explanation, I was out on my ear'ole! :chuckle:
 

pandacracker

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
1,431
Reaction score
3,515
Points
189
There was a program on BBC4 last week called storyville which was about the poor kids in Guernseys children's home.

It was Haut de la Garrene in Jersey.

I liked the production style, no presenter voice overs (just captions) you didn't even hear the interviewer asking the questions.

It seems that the initial investigation was flawed (evidence not being properly recorded) as was the Jersey government/establishment at the time.

I recommend a watch if you can get access somehow.

until I was banned for some reason

You hadn't been challenging assumptions had you?
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
37,932
Reaction score
57,047
Points
334
Location
HM The Tower of London
It was Haut de la Garrene in Jersey.

I liked the production style, no presenter voice overs (just captions) you didn't even hear the interviewer asking the questions.

It seems that the initial investigation was flawed (evidence not being properly recorded) as was the Jersey government/establishment at the time.

I recommend a watch if you can get access somehow.



You hadn't been challenging assumptions had you?

Nope, all I'd done was read the threads and, well, probably nothing else.
I was too stunned by what I was reading to get involved! :chuckle:

That (or somewhere like it) was where I read about certain then upcoming prosecutions of celebrity nonces, including 'one which will break your heart' - Rolf Harris.
 

WeeScottishLassie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
2,168
Reaction score
9,779
Points
209
It was Haut de la Garrene in Jersey.

I liked the production style, no presenter voice overs (just captions) you didn't even hear the interviewer asking the questions.

It seems that the initial investigation was flawed (evidence not being properly recorded) as was the Jersey government/establishment at the time.

I recommend a watch if you can get access somehow.



You hadn't been challenging assumptions had you?
Yes, that was the name of it, thank you.

Definitely it seemed that the initial investigation was a total mess.

I was really horrified by the politics though and how it's run. I suppose being a tax haven is the reason.

Storyville generally produces really good quality documentaries though.
 

CALGACUS03

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
371
Reaction score
1,142
Points
169
Location
The Wee County
It was Haut de la Garrene in Jersey.

I liked the production style, no presenter voice overs (just captions) you didn't even hear the interviewer asking the questions.
I watched that too; I was alternating between disbelief and outrage throughout. :(

I remember reading about a journalist who was covering the story who had all their electronic devices seized by UK Customs when they were about to leave the UK; for some reason the UK mainland seems to be keen to help Jersey try to sweep the whole affair under the carpet.

I think that this is the story I remember (but I was sure that in the one I recall the journalist was male):

From vice.com.

When American journalist Leah McGrath Goodman heard about the story, she made plans to write a book about the orphanage but was met with resistance. In July 2011, she went to Jersey's immigration office to check that the apartment and office space she was leasing to help with her research was in order. The officer assured her that everything was fine and they were happy to help, until she told him about her specific interest in the orphanage. The officer left the room and returned with his boss, who repeatedly told her to get a “writer's visa.” These are hard to obtain in Jersey, primarily because they do not exist.

That September, after stopping in London on the way to Austria, Leah was held under arrest in Heathrow airport for 12 hours, searched, and never given the opportunity to contact her consulate or family. The UK Border Agency said it was all being done at the request of Jersey. Leah was then sent back to New York and banned from the UK.

On a side note - when Googling for the above, I came across a blog that seemingly provides a lot of information and links regarding Saville and other known paedophiles, and questions the number of files, etc. that have apparently gone missing. I don't know how accurate this blog is, but it provides a lot of apparently reliable information regarding the protection that certain people appear to have enjoyed over the years.

Actually, not going to post that - it makes fascinating (and disturbing) reading but possibly might fall foul of the mods.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
9,775
Points
314
Location
Midwich
EXACTLY the organisation you'd want to produce a documentary on false allegations of child abuse...

I doubt there's a broadcaster, news agency or any kind of media outlet in the world that hasn't got things wrong - sometimes spectacularly so. If we judge all journalism by the worst examples of it's mistakes, then quite frankly, we'd probably all be best sticking to tea leaves.

And, as I said, I'm not even sure it was the BBC.
 

salt-man

Junior Acolyte
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
84
Reaction score
177
Points
33
I doubt there's a broadcaster, news agency or any kind of media outlet in the world that hasn't got things wrong - sometimes spectacularly so. If we judge all journalism by the worst examples of it's mistakes, then quite frankly, we'd probably all be best sticking to tea leaves.

And, as I said, I'm not even sure it was the BBC.
Wasn't a failure of journolism by the BBC - it was a culture of turning a blind eye and enabling.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
9,775
Points
314
Location
Midwich
Wasn't a failure of journolism by the BBC - it was a culture of turning a blind eye and enabling.

My response would be basically the same. The BBC (assuming it was a BBC documentary) is a very large organisation with a very broad footprint - judging every single minute of output by the most egregious of its mistakes seems a potentially self-destructive form of reductionism. People and organisations get things wrong (sometimes very wrong) but this does not preclude them from getting other things right; giving so much weight to the former that it eclipses the potential for the latter doesn’t actually help anyone in any practical way.

The Little Rascals Day Care miscarriage of justice was a disaster of devastating proportions for those involved - it really doesn't matter who calls it out.
 
Last edited:

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
37,932
Reaction score
57,047
Points
334
Location
HM The Tower of London
On the subject of Broadmoor, here is a BBC sound clip which mentions the DJ Johnnie Walker describing how he was told that Savile would be taking a Broadmoor patient into his camper van to 'test the springs':

Former Radio 1 DJ Johnnie Walker tells Richard no-one would have done anything if he'd reported Savile abuse.

Walker mentions the novelist Val McDermid's sinister character Jacko Vance, a famous DJ and TV celebrity who is also a serial abuser and murderer. Vance is based on Savile. McDermid put in lots of clues like the 'Vance's Visits' show and the camper van where Savile abused his victims.

Savile was like the country's biggest open secret. Everyone knew what he was up to but nobody could stop him because of his contacts and the danger of the huge scandals that would ensue.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,981
Reaction score
23,475
Points
334
I was listening to actress Tuppence Middleton's recent Radio 4 series on her Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and one of the points made was that sufferers do not only go about repetitive tasks and checking, they endure intrusive thoughts as well. One side effect of the media's preoccupation with paedophiles over the years has been a steep increase, not in paedophiles, but in people frightened to death that they are a paedophile.

The reassuring message to take away was that if you're terrified you're a paedophile, you're almost certainly not, they are fairly rare. But the not so reassuring message was that you probably suffer OCD. Medication and talking therapy can help with that, though, to break the cycle of destructive thoughts.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
9,957
Reaction score
23,590
Points
334

WeeScottishLassie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
2,168
Reaction score
9,779
Points
209

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
47,663
Reaction score
43,987
Points
334
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
You can all take your Bob Dylan records off the shelf, and throw them into the bin next to your Bowie, Stones, Gary Glitter etc.:

"Legendary singer and songwriter Bob Dylan plied a 12-year-old girl with drugs and alcohol before sexually abusing her at his Chelsea Hotel apartment in 1965, an explosive new lawsuit alleges."

https://pagesix.com/2021/08/16/bob-dylan-sued-for-allegedly-sexually-abusing-12-year-old-in-1965/

maximus otter
We should really wait until the court case is over and a verdict has emerged.
 

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,712
Reaction score
3,111
Points
164
I'm always suspicious of people who accuse stars of abuse decades after the event. Doubtless, the various issues surrounding such cases have been discussed here before, probably somewhere on this thread. I have a horrible feeling justice is difficult to find in these circumstances. Dylan's reputation will forever be tarnished if he's innocent. If he's guilty, the victim will struggle to prove it, but may have to endure unpleasant attention for bringing it up after so many years, including accusations she's making false claims hoping he'll settle out of court to shut the negative publicity down.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,981
Reaction score
23,475
Points
334
Apparently His Bobness was touring in the UK at the time of the alleged incident, as seen in the film Don't Look Back. Therefore the accuser will have to prove he popped back over the Atlantic and back again in a short space of time in order to abuse her. Not sure about this one.

One benefit of being a star with a beyond obsessive fanbase is that they can trace your movements to the minute over your lifetime.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
47,663
Reaction score
43,987
Points
334
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Apparently His Bobness was touring in the UK at the time of the alleged incident, as seen in the film Don't Look Back. Therefore the accuser will have to prove he popped back over the Atlantic and back again in a short space of time in order to abuse her. Not sure about this one.

One benefit of being a star with a beyond obsessive fanbase is that they can trace your movements to the minute over your lifetime.
You'd have thought that an accuser would have done their research a lot better, wouldn't you?
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
6,434
Reaction score
12,710
Points
289
Apparently His Bobness was touring in the UK at the time of the alleged incident, as seen in the film Don't Look Back. Therefore the accuser will have to prove he popped back over the Atlantic and back again in a short space of time in order to abuse her. Not sure about this one.

One benefit of being a star with a beyond obsessive fanbase is that they can trace your movements to the minute over your lifetime.

I thought the incident took place in the UK?
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
34,213
Reaction score
46,549
Points
314
Location
East of Suez

cycleboy2

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
2,553
Reaction score
6,830
Points
239
You'd have thought that an accuser would have done their research a lot better, wouldn't you?
There's virtually no period of time covering the accusations where Bob could even possibly have been in New York. Very briefly, perhaps, but nowhere near the six weeks claimed. And while the time of year could be misremembered after this time, I agree that you really would have thought the legal team representing the accuser would have checked these well-documented facts before going public, as if they do change the date at which they say the alleged offences took place, surely the case starts to look much less likely to proceed?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-lawsuit-1214347/
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
34,213
Reaction score
46,549
Points
314
Location
East of Suez
There's virtually no period of time covering the accusations where Bob could even possibly have been in New York. Very briefly, perhaps, but nowhere near the six weeks claimed. And while the time of year could be misremembered after this time, I agree that you really would have thought the legal team representing the accuser would have checked these well-documented facts before going public, as if they do change the date at which they say the alleged offences took place, surely the case starts to look much less likely to proceed?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-lawsuit-1214347/

The CPS had two attempts at prosecuting Roy Harper for the historical rape of an eleven-year-old girl. The second case collapsed when the victim claimed that her absuser was bald on top with a blue penis.

This was fairly swiftly rebutted by photographic evidence and the testimony of intimate acquaintances.

This shouldn't have reached a courtroom once.

I have comparatively little faith in such 'lifetime-later' prosecutions.
 

cycleboy2

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
2,553
Reaction score
6,830
Points
239
The CPS had two attempts at prosecuting Roy Harper for the historical rape of an eleven-year-old girl. The second case collapsed when the victim claimed that her absuser was bald with a blue penis.

This was fairly swiftly rebutted by photographic evidence and the testimony of intimate acquaintances.

This shouldn't have reached a courtroom once.

I have comparatively little faith in such 'lifetime-later' prosecutions.
I saw Roy Harper play live in 1983 so was relieved that he was not charged, but you do wonder at how his name was even made public on the basis of such barking accusations.

I still listen to his first album, the 1966 release Sophisticated Beggar. At least until I lost/mislaid the CD.

I'm all for seeing perpetrators face trial but, after decades, the evidence should be beyond reproach – as it always should be, of course. But when witnesses are being expected to remember events from 50+ years ago, and other potential witnesses will be dead, and there's likely to be little or no forensic evidence, cases are going to be hard to prove but the defendant's name will still be associated with the claims.

I sat as a jury member a few years ago on a sexual assault case (don't worry, I've just checked .gov.uk about what I can say and I won't discuss anything from the jury room) and the case from the CPS was poor, and the police presentation of their evidence was just as unimpressive (something like some of the video witness statements not working, or similar). It was shambolic. And that was for offences alleged to have taken place in the previous year or so.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,981
Reaction score
23,475
Points
334
This I am willing to believe is some kind of conspiracy:
News story

The latest report into child sexual abuse finds a mass cover-up across all religions (the Catholic and CofE reports were released earlier and found the same pattern).

Two quotes:

There are "shocking failings" and "blatant hypocrisy" in the way major UK religious groups handle child sex abuse allegations, an inquiry has found.

and:

The report said that many religious sects were putting children at risk by:
  • Victim blaming
  • Not openly discussing matters of sexuality
  • Abuse of power by religious leaders
  • Men dominating the leadership
  • Mistrust of non-religious agencies
  • Misusing the concept of "forgiveness"
That last one is extremely chilling. So if you want to avoid child abuse, avoiding religion is a good way to do it.
 
Top