It's Paedogeddon!

Yithian

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Found not guilty by a court of law but let's keep kicking that dead horse.
I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
Screen-Shot-2016-06-21-at-1.52.30-PM-750x400.png
 

Swifty

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I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
Didn't Germaine Greer also publish a 'coffee table' photography book of naked young boys? .. I certainly remember a TV interview she did around the mid 90's where her defence was "Well, men have been sexualising young girls and women to look like young girls for decades so what's wrong with this book?" .. that was the thrust of her argument anyway ..

I don't want to do a google search for it for obvious reasons ..
 

Yithian

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Didn't Germaine Greer also publish a 'coffee table' photography book of naked young boys? .. I certainly remember a TV interview she did around the mid 90's where her defence was "Well, men have been sexualising young girls and women to look like young girls for decades so what's wrong with this book?" .. that was the thrust of her argument anyway ..

I don't want to do a google search for it for obvious reasons ..
It was a philosophical and and sociological discussion of changing artistic conceptions of the physical form of young men: there are 'arty' photographs, but there are just as many paintings and sculptures.

Hardly Kleenex fodder.
 

Swifty

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It was a philosophical and and sociological discussion of changing artistic conceptions of the physical form of the young men: there are 'arty' photographs, but there are just as many paintings and sculptures.

Hardly Kleenex fodder.
I duuno .. there's some weird people about ..
 

Megadeth1977

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I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-the_us_577fdfbce4b0f06648f4a3f8?guccounter=1
 

Yithian

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but if he was subsequently found not guilty it cant have been very illegal ?
He wasn't on trial for possessing child pornography, it was gathered as it could bolster the picture of him a child abuser.

I've read Megadeth's link in which the author attempts to rebut the allegation. In essence, it says that the materials did not reach the threshold for child pornography (no sexual contact) and that some of it was publicly available, but no other source takes this line and the Sheriff's office concedes that the leaked paperwork is there's.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that a seed of doubt has been sown, but that's still a lot of naked kids in a locked cupboard...
 
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I'm not even slightly prudish, but the material detailed below is clearly dodgy as hell. The only photographs of nude children a man should possess are those of his own son or daughter--and just about conceivably those of close relatives. There's an argument for artistic and aesthetic work, but that would seem to have little application here. I can't say whether he committed acts of sexual predation on a child, but I'm content to say he was a paedophille based on the following:

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

'Highlights' of the list of items discovered by police at his residence:
Evidence Item #508. Book with images of ‘nude teenagers and/or young adults’​
Located in upstairs library area of video/game room. The book was titled, The Fourth Sex: Adolescent Extreme, with no listed author.​
The investigator noted that this book focuses on ‘adolescents and counter culture,’ contained lots of images of semi-clothed or naked ‘teenagers and/or young adults’ and actually isn’t illegal under US law. But, it represents a tool that could be used to ‘lower the inhibitions of intended victims’ and ‘facilitate the molestation of said individuals’.​
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.​
The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.​
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.​
Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.​
Evidence Item #303. Three books containing nude photographs, including those of teenagers and pre-teenagers.​
Naked and semi-clothed images of women ‘in sexually explicit poses,’ as well as naked men as filmed by a gay photographer. One book contained semi-clothed or fully-nude teenagers or pre-teenagers, according to the report.​
Other items described in court filings (contained within the same document stack):
Book: ‘Boys Will be Boys,’ contains full frontal nudity of boys under the age of 14; personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.​
Book: ‘In Search of Young Beauty,’ containing pictures of children, boys and girls, some nude.​
Book: ‘The Boy, a Photographic Essay,’ containing images of boys, some nude.​
Photograph: Noted in the document as ‘believed to be Jonathan Spence; fully nude.’​
Photograph: young boy holding an umbrella, with bikini bottoms partially pulled down.​
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.​
‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.​
‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.​
Evidence Item #366: Several books, containing images of nude men and children.​
Nude images of a nude male couple, another contained nude images of men from the 1800s. Photos of teenage males nude, images of adults with childrens’ faces morphed on top, some nude photos of children.​
Items found across several laptop computers:
Even a cursory reading of previous case transcripts yield a strong impression that a guilty and wealthy man bought himself out of trouble. I agree with Yith.
 

Megadeth1977

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Even a cursory reading of previous case transcripts yield a strong impression that a guilty and wealthy man bought himself out of trouble. I agree with Yith.
The jury found him not guilty Because the evidence didn't hold up and the kid and his family were seen as liars in the end who were just out for money.
 

Swifty

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He had my contempt long before he died.
Did you have contempt for him before the allegations? .. I had to agree with Martin Bashir when he flat out asked MJ if he didn't think it was a bit risky as a 44 year old man having other people's children sleep with him in his room or bed .. that's an incredibly naïve and stupid thing for any adult to do. Or it's because he was a paedophile.

Corey Feldman admits to having crashed in MJ's room as a kid and still swears MJ never tried to do anything inappropriate. Feldman has since admitted to have been sexually abused as a child (by a different adult), he's extremely pro active for example about the U.S. law system allowing people who were abused as kids being taken seriously decades later so you'd think if anyone was going to blow the whistle on Jackson, especially now Jackson's dead, it would be Feldman. Even Feldman's friend and co worker Corey Haim was sexually abused as a kid.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-justice-child-sex-abuse-victims-like-me.html

Corey Feldman also had a film out at Sundance called 'A Tale Of Two Coreys' dealing with the sexual abuse he and Haim suffered. Haim died never telling anyone about his abuse as a kid. Feldman raised the ten million dollars himself to get it made.

 
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Ogdred Weary

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I believe Macaulay Culkin has said MJ never tired anything on with him either, we have to presume they are telling the truth, though this doesn't mean that they are. As to why they might lie, I have no idea but I have little idea why most people say or do most things. Even if both men are telling the truth it does not mean MJ did not abuse other boys.

Equally there are all manner of red flags around MJ's life, again, these so far prove nothing but are highly suggestive and people are are entirely correct to be suspicious.
 

escargot

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I had to agree with Martin Bashir when he flat out asked MJ if he didn't think it was a bit risky as a 44 year old man having other people's children sleep with him in his room or bed .. that's an incredibly naïve and stupid thing for any adult to do. Or it's because he was a paedophile.
It was known years before the court case that Jackson routinely hung out with kids and appeared to try to act like one around them. In my experience of working with abused children and teenagers that's blatant grooming behaviour. So I assumed that's what he was up to and nothing's changed my mind since.
 

Ogdred Weary

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It was known years before the court case that Jackson routinely hung out with kids and appeared to try to act like one around them. In my experience of working with abused children and teenagers that's blatant grooming behaviour. So I assumed that's what he was up to and nothing's changed my mind since.
Is that also indicative of an adult who was abused as a child?
 

escargot

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Is that also indicative of an adult who was abused as a child?
Possibly but there's no definite rule about it. Most adults who were abused as children deal with it and don't go on to offend against children themselves.
Some do, while some adults who were not abused as children become abusers. It's often about power.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Possibly but there's no definite rule about it. Most adults who were abused as children deal with it and don't go on to offend against children themselves.
Some do, while some adults who were not abused as children become abusers. It's often about power.
Sorry, I meant adults who behave like children around children may have been abused; not that people being abusers were necessarily abused themselves.
 

escargot

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Sorry, I meant adults who behave like children around children may have been abused; not that people being abusers were necessarily abused themselves.
Yup, I was jumping the gun there. We'll have to ask a psychologist about whether 'behaving like children around children' is a pointer to previous abuse.

With Jackson the private roundabouts etc were the equivalent of a bag of sweeties or those mythical puppies, on a larger scale.
 

Swifty

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It was a book about how young boys have been portrayed as subjects of beauty in art. Not pornography.

Here's a review - The Boy
Ahh .. thank you. From memory, it was the interviewer drilling Greer about the book so that must have all been in the interviewer's mind although Greer did retort with the "Why not?, young girls have been sexualised for decades" comment so she probably didn't do the author (herself) or the viewers any favours there ..

I watched a documentary a while back that was painting Lewis Carrol as a potential paedophile because he took loads of pictures of the real Alice .. his love of children and taking photos, preferring their company and writing stories for them sounds very similar to Michael Jackson's behaviour.

When we were young teens, me and mates used to sneak looks at the top shelf porno mags .. I remember one that that was full of naked people that was actually a naturist and not porno mag called Health & Efficiency. It had amiable looking couples and families photographed starkers but also naked kids in it which we didn't think anything of at the time. I hadn't seen that magazine for decades and always assumed it might have been cancelled because of our more enlightened child protection times. My mate runs a store and I surprised to see a new copy on his top shelf so took it down, had a flick through and, wisely, the photographs of naturists are now limited to only adults.
 
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escargot

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Ahh .. thank you. From memory, it was the interviewer drilling Greer about the book so that must have all been in the interviewer's mind although Greer did retort with the "Why not?, young girls have been sexualised for decades" comment so she probably didn't do the author (herself) or the viewers any favours there ..

When we were young teens, me and mates used to sneak looks at the top shelf porno mags .. I remember one that that was full of naked people that was actually a naturist and not porno mag called Health & Efficiency. It had amiable looking couples and families photographed starkers but also naked kids in it which we didn't think anything of at the time. I hadn't seen that magazine for decades and always assumed it might have been cancelled because of our more enlightened child protection times. My mate runs a store and I surprised to see a new copy on his top shelf so took it down, had a flick through and, wisely, the photographs of naturists are now limited to only adults.

Yup, used to find copies of H&E (poorly )hidden in the bushes at the local park as a kid. The women wore little flesh tone pants and posed with bracing outdoor sporting equipment like bows and arrows. (Even to a kid it was obvious this particular activity was a poor choice of exercise for a topless woman.) Can't remember seeing naked children but I expect there were some.
 

Swifty

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Yup, used to find copies of H&E (poorly )hidden in the bushes at the local park as a kid. The women wore little flesh tone pants and posed with bracing outdoor sporting equipment like bows and arrows. (Even to a kid it was obvious this particular activity was a poor choice of exercise for a topless woman.) Can't remember seeing naked children but I expect there were some.
H&E didn't go out of their way to photograph naked kids in the mid 80's (the last time I saw a copy until a week or so ago so I don't know if they were still going all that time), your typical pic would be the whole family of all ages standing around a barbecue or swimming in a lake or something similar with the kids running around having a laugh like kids should .. obviously H&E have wised up these days.
 
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