Jack The Ripper (Compendium Thread)

What do you think is the most likely ?

  • The Ripper was a Freemason?

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • The Ripper had medical knowledge?

    Votes: 8 13.3%
  • It was Maybrick?

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • The Ripper was 'of the same class' as his victims?

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • The Ripper was foreign?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • It was Druitt?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • None of the suspects yet put forward?

    Votes: 15 25.0%
  • It was a woman?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Another?

    Votes: 16 26.7%

  • Total voters
    60

harlequin2005

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CF Michael Sams, when Mycroft sold him eletronics in the 80's, he didn't notice he had a prosthetic limb, merely a limp :)

One final comment about 'Why I don't think Tumblety was Jack'... Being in custody the night of MJK's death seems a bit of a show stopper. The 'unrecorded police bail' theory seems to be clutching at straws. No MJK, no Jack, IMHO.

The 'sandy haired man' idea spreading by hysteria and word of mouth seems unlikely. Bear in mind that Leather Apron *looked* the part. The Ripper descriptions circulating were of a 'foreigner, with a manic expression and staring eyes, fuelled by locla predjudice and the yellow press of the time. Nearly all the hysteric JtR stuff circulated about people who did stand out. Jack would have looked like Captain Normal. If he did have some impediment, it may well vanish while he hunted, as has been the case for several SSKs. He was almost certainly of the class of his victims, but probably at the top end rather than the bottom, since the implication of 'shabby genteel' was repeated, in what does appear to be reliable testimony. Or as reliable as you could get at the time.

8¬)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
No MJK, no Jack, IMHO.
Good point. Maybe this explains why he was actually allowed bail a few days later. I doubt he'd be let out otherwise(?) Even so, why weren't the charges dropped? Was he going to be used as a scapegoat?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Tumblety the Patsy

I think they were looking for a reason to arrest him. They had a known Fenian on their hands, they were various hints of terrorists plans afoot, and he'd already been implicated in the assassination of Lincoln. The fact he was homosexual seems to have been a good excuse to arrest him. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't tailed a bit while in this country - which would give him a pretty good alibi when it came to the Ripper killings. Of course, it wouldn't be the sort of alibi the special branch would want used.

About the witness statements - well, I suppose you can argue either side. In general though they don't seem to be describing the semitic lunatic the press were so fond of, which seems to add credence.

The thing is, this was a scary time, in the East End and everywhere. Even 'respectable' women were scared, so the 'gay women' must have been terrified. Would they have been likely to go into a dark alley with someone who looked like a killer? They may have felt safer with a 'shabbily genteel' gent, who didn't look or speak like the locals. Maybe Elizabeth Long didn't mean foreign as in country, but as in not a native of the East End? Okay, it's all supposition, but was isn't in this game?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
The sudden end to the killings is possibly relevant. Incarceration? Suicide? Holiday?

I believe that Colin Wilson had an idea or two on these lines; he supposed that the murders were the result of an alchohol induced psychosis. Therefore, killer either drinks self to death or gives the sauce up completely. I don't think this holds much water personally, but it's an idea.

Am I correct in thinking that (in psyc-profile terms) it is unusual for a serial killer to cease unless the final victim holds some special significance?
 

harlequin2005

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DanHigginbottom said:
The sudden end to the killings is possibly relevant. Incarceration? Suicide? Holiday?

I believe that Colin Wilson had an idea or two on these lines; he supposed that the murders were the result of an alchohol induced psychosis. Therefore, killer either drinks self to death or gives the sauce up completely. I don't think this holds much water personally, but it's an idea.

Am I correct in thinking that (in psyc-profile terms) it is unusual for a serial killer to cease unless the final victim holds some special significance?

Varies.

Doulglas maintains that a relationship between hunter and prey is unlikely.

Some killers have started their sequence with a significant figure, often their mother.

And as to stopping, it may be the termination case, but an SSK's significant may not be a normal person's significant. Bear in mind, the theory that an SSK will not stop because he wants to is based only on the fact that the one's we've caught, when we've caught them, had no intention of stopping. At best, the termination case of a sequence is hazy, but then so is a lot profiling theory. A Chicago Policeman of my aquaintance once said to me that profiling was '... so much VooDoo done by glory hogging a-holes...' As you can tell he wasn't much impressed. I still feel its a little harsh, but any 'magic bullet' must be viewed with a certain level of caution.

8¬)
 

intaglio

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harlequin said:
'... so much VooDoo done by glory hogging a-holes...'
8¬)

Same applies, surely, to any psychology/psychotherapy but one thing humans can do well is spot patterns. This is why I am doubtful about Jack being a SK, still less an SSK. The pattern as we see bears more resemblance to someone *going postal* without the automatic weapons. Or to a planned sequence of terror killings.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I would suggest that Jack was an organised killer, as I've said before, therefore I don't agree with the 'going postal' suggestion (sorry I!). Mass killers tend to be the spree/suicide variety, whereas Jack killed over a period of time, the murders apparently planned and premeditated. I still consider Jack to be an assassin-type, after Mary Kelly from the outset, the method of killing to be ritualistic and the murder scene 'staged'.

Well, that's my theory anyway. Personally, cards on the table time, I fancy James Kenneth Stephen as the Ripper.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Weeelll, why not? He's as good a choice as anyone else. He even fits the descriptions. And he was syphillitically (sp?) insane. And he suffered a blow to the head rendering him unconscious for a few days when younger, which some profilers reckon is fairly common for psychos (although I freely admit I reckon it's just fairly common). And he was a total misogynist who thought women a complete waste of time, which was going a little far even for Victorian men. And there is a suggestion of 'impropriety' with the Duke of Clarence. And, anyway, he just makes more interesting suspect than, for example, Druitt.

And he died in 1892, within a few months of the Duke of Clarence, which was the same year that the police closed the books on Jack. And he was a Mason.

And there's an awful lot of Ands in those paragraphs!:)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hmm, well we've got to be careful about fingering someone just because there's no evidence against him... there must be some association with Whitechapel, right? Otherwise, a misogynist with VD and a good education does not a serial killer make.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Evidence? Pah! Who needs it?

Okay, let the straw grasping commence....:)

Firstly, let me say that any suspects link with Whitechapel et al is tenuous. There's absolutely nothing linking Tumblety, Druitt, etc to Whitechapel but that don't stop people doin' it. I tend to think of it as a bit of a game - sorry if that's inappropriate given the subject matter.

Anyway, to link Stephen to Whitechapel, the equation is as follows :-

Stephen - Clarence - Clarendon Street Brothel - sweet shop over the road from brothel alleged residence/place of work of Annie Crook and Mary Kelly.

I thought it was pretty much accepted that the peculiar method the brothel was raided pointed to Clarence being there, and having frequented its demesne fairly - well - frequently. I could be wrong about this. There was also some evidence pointing to Stephen being fairly demented about Clarence's marriage to Princess Whats'erface in 1891ish, and writing Clarence a rather strongly worded letter to the effect that he had no right sullying himself with the fairer sex. There was also something about Stephen virtually starving himself to death following Clarence's death; that or just sort of pining away, as he was very ill at the time, suffering the final stages of syphilis.

Unlike Druitt, Tumblety and Maybrick, there's also no evidence that he *wasn't* in Whitechapel on the dates of the murders, so I don't see why they should be considered more suitable Ripper candidates that Stephen. As to whether there is any evidence he *was* in the vicinity, I'll have to keep looking, as I can't seem to find it at the moment.

Anyway, he's a break from the norm. At least he's not dull!:D
 

intaglio

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Before I Googled it I thought Tertiary neurosyphillis had only dementia as a symptom, but psychosis is possible. Is there any othe evidence of psychopathy?

Excuse me while I get the milk of magnesia, that last dictionary didn't go down to well :cross eye
 
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Anonymous

Guest
No, that's a good point. Didn't Al Capone also suffer from syphilitic psychosis? Would this illness manifest itself in such a way as to allow JTR to function in the manner he did, i.e. highly organised but capable of the atrocities he committed? Did Stephen's illness get progressively worse such that he was unable to function after the last murder? I guess I'm asking the question "why would he stop" if it was Stephen, since he survived for another 4 years.
 

intaglio

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Wheres Helen when you want her!!

syphillitic psychosis would be progressive and it's manifestations would change over time. Essentially your brain is being eaten. Think how senile psychosese vary. There would also be progressive physical debiliation
 
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Anonymous

Guest
B]Re: Wheres Helen when you want her!![/B]

Actually, playing Grim Fandango and playing with my new cats. Sorry!

I guess I'm asking the question "why would he stop" if it was Stephen, since he survived for another 4 years.

Because he'd got Kelly, as she was the one he was after all along. Once she was dead, he didn't need to carry on. He didn't kill because he was a serial killer - he did it because he was a raving nutter with a less than healthy obsession with some bloke who had sullied himself with a woman. As Stephen couldn't get hold of Alice Crook - what with her being in Bedlam - he got hold of the next best thing - Kelly, as she was the one responsible for it all in the first place, having introduced Clarence to Crook and starting the whole shenanigans.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
i was reading somewhere (not really sure where though :( ) that Garrick ,the Elephant man, was around the area where the murders had taken place so ..........................:rolleyes:
And by the way i worked in a pub in Aldgate called the White hart where Dr. Chapman resided and one of the prostitute was found murdered.Now the cellar is used to keep food :eek!!!!: and some staff specially the female staff are afraid of going down there because they say they can feel still the "presence" :monster:
 

intaglio

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I s'pose Joseph (John) Merrick would have fulfilled the "foreign looking" tag but he might have been a tad - um - noticable. But, hey you can't have everything :D
 

harlequin2005

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And by the way i worked in a pub in Aldgate called the White hart where Dr. Chapman resided and one of the prostitute was found murdered.

Sorry to be picky, but which one was found in a pub in Aldgate? To my knowledge there was only one indoor murder attributed to the Witechapel Murderer and that was MJK



8¬)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
she wasn't murdered in the pub but in the alley besides the pub.What i meant was Dr. Chapman lived in the cellar of the pub.The pub is situated in 81 whitechapel high street.
sorry about the confusion i didn't explain myself properly :confused:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Would that be Mary Ann Nichols, found in Buck's Row 31st August?

I've just remembered a few startling coincidences -

James Kenneth Stephen's father, Sir James Fitzjames Stephen, was the judge at the trial of Florence Maybrick. After Stephen's blow to the head, he suffered from fits and violent rantings, and became a patient of Sir William Gull (after Gull's stroke).

Small world, innit?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
apologies for joining this Thread so late.

ages ago I hears a theory I liked. It went like this:

Jack was more of a Jackie. A woman with some medical knowledge that used to perform illegal abortions on the ladies of the night. It was this abortionist that did the killings, possibly to disguise her failed work on some patients (no witness no problem). Perhaps she then got to like her new alternative practice.

Just a thought. :cool: Wish I could remember where I heard that.
 
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Anonymous

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Hey - it doesn't matter if you're late, so long as you arrived!

Yes - Jill the Ripper. First proposed by Reverend Lord Sydney Godolphin Osborne (wonderful name!) and carried up by Arthur Conan Doyle (how often does his name turn up on these boards?). Various others have carried this particular candle, the most romantic version being that Jill was a nurse who was appalled to discover her husband had been with a prozzie, so set about ripping 'em up.

There's really only one problem - we know for definite that at least Mary Jane Kelly was not pregnant.

Conan Doyle believed it because he considered that the Ripper must be covered in blood him/herself and who else could walk around the East End, covered in blood, and not draw attention, but a midwife/abortionist?
 

Spookdaddy

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Publicity I expect. Nothing particularly original and bloody expensive for all that.
 
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Anonymous

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Yep, I think I've said enough about Ms. Cornwell on the other thread. I'm running out of insults. Well, okay, I'm not, but I'm running out of the sort I can put on any message board.
 
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Anonymous

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I used to hold fast to the beliefs put out there by Mr. Colin Wilson, but I have recently come to lose some respect for some of the less credible things Mr. Wilson has put his imprinteur on.
The whole Ripper mythology has convinced me, however, that we will never know who commited these murders, as too many 'historians' have their fingers in the pie, and most facts are now lost behind speculation and legend.
 

harlequin2005

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wulfloki said:
... and most facts are now lost behind speculation and legend.
Wulfloki,
I would heartily recommend the 'The Ulimate Jack the Ripper Source Book' ('The Ulimate Jack the Ripper Companion' in the US) by Stewart P Evans and Keith Skinner as the best collection of primary sources available. Minimal editorial intrusion and no real opinions given! Hallelujah!

8¬)

PS Give my regards to the lads at the Esoteric Order
 
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Anonymous

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I will do that Harlequin. Thank you for the advice.


by the by, those Dagon punks are pretty clique-ish, so I'll just send them the message that is symbolised in my country with one finger, and symbolised with two fingers for most of the rest of the posters here.
 

TheOriginalCujo

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wulfloki said:
I will do that Harlequin. Thank you for the advice.


by the by, those Dagon punks are pretty clique-ish, so I'll just send them the message that is symbolised in my country with one finger, and symbolised with two fingers for most of the rest of the posters here.

We do the one finger thing too.

Cujo
 
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