Jack The Ripper (Compendium Thread)

What do you think is the most likely ?

  • The Ripper was a Freemason?

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • The Ripper had medical knowledge?

    Votes: 8 13.3%
  • It was Maybrick?

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • The Ripper was 'of the same class' as his victims?

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • The Ripper was foreign?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • It was Druitt?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • None of the suspects yet put forward?

    Votes: 15 25.0%
  • It was a woman?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Another?

    Votes: 16 26.7%

  • Total voters
    60

Ascalon

Abominable Snowman
Joined
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Messages
785
Rubenhold acquits herself well in these.
She reasonably refuses to be drawn on anything beyond the area where she has performed her research.
She sticks to what she knows and even pulls the presenters back when begin to stray into the kind of speculation that stretches the evidence, such as the now infamous 'Eddowes' shawl.
The presenters are a bit annoying though, with one guy constantly interjecting with ' in my experience' type references that add nothing and smack a bit of gonzoism.
Glad I heard that, but not going back for more.

In other news, it was Lewis Carroll. FFS!
https://m.timesofindia.com/life-sty...ller-jack-the-ripper/articleshow/89181623.cms
 

Solexman

Junior Acolyte
Joined
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Messages
75
Ok. My tuppence worth…..

Maybrick.
And the “double event” wasn’t a double event. It was purely coincidental.

…. leaves room , ducking as I go….
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Messages
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Ok. My tuppence worth…..

Maybrick.
And the “double event” wasn’t a double event. It was purely coincidental.

…. leaves room , ducking as I go….
I'll duck with you, there are quite a few 'suspects', and probably even more that have not been recorded in history.
And whatever happened to 'The Batty Street Lodger', another suspect?
 

Ascalon

Abominable Snowman
Joined
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Messages
785
Thinking about all of this again, from a sort of profiling perspective, I’m not sure what The Five adds.

What we know of JTR was that he had both organised and disorganised aspects to his MO, which, if we accept the canonicals, or even a tight view of possible victims (Tabram in particular) is not just opportunistic, but adaptive.

He chose victims of opportunity, but he had a knife with him. From what we can tell, more or less the same type of weapon was used throughout, with Tabram being the only exception where there is evidence of two weapons, one as per the rest, and one that may have been a heavier, coarser weapon.

Again, there is no report, eyewitness account or documented instance of anyone fleeing a scene, or even seen nearby. Whether the Goulston Street graffito is part of the case or not, the section of Catherine Eddowes’ apron was real, so we know that JTR fled the scene that way, but did so without drawing attention to himself. So, despite the ferocity of his attacks, with Eddowes being particularly horrific, he has the ability to make his way, calmly enough, away.

Even if both Eddowes and Annie Chapman were merely sleeping rough, as the work of Rubenhold strongly suggests, it still fits with the general MO. JTR likely rendered both insensible through strangulation, and then delivered the fatal wounds before proceeding with the horrible mutilations.

What it suggests is that JTR was familiar enough with the neighbourhoods to know where rough sleepers were to be found. He may have patrolled those particular areas, keeping a watchful eye for opportune unfortunates. Rather than just luring them to a secluded spot, or responding to solicitation, he may have also actively searched for those most vulnerable, sleeping rough, possibly while intoxicated, to carry out his crimes.

This might suggest that his conversational ability may not have had to be fluent, if he was not relying too heavily on engaging his victims first. This was always a bar for me with Severin Klosowski, or George Chapman. In 1888, he was not in London long and his level of English must have necessarily been limited. The other implication would be if he had sufficient local knowledge then to know where to find the rough sleepers.

In recent times, much has been written about Elizabeth Stride, as to whether she is actually a JTR victim. It is worth stating that Inspector Abberline was utterly convinced of it. The entire extent of her injuries does fit with the MO, in so far as she appears to have been strangled with a ligature, her own scarf, before the fatal wound was inflicted. Were she simply to have been a victim of a pimp or a street gang, as many have suggested, it is doubtful they would have gone to the bother of doing both.

Stride was given to soliciting, but was also an accomplished grifter. She may have retired to the relative privacy of Dutfield’s Yard to gather herself after her altercation earlier, at which time JTR, doing his rounds, discovered her.

Rubenhold’s approach was not to try to find evidence or further the quest to ID the killer, but rather to shine a light on the lives of the real women who were victims, and set them in the context of their day. This she does with aplomb, sensitively and empathetically.

However, the major import of her work for the sleuth is merely to hone slightly the profile we already have of the shadowy figure, but alas not to illuminate him.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Joined
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Messages
1,443
Thinking about all of this again, from a sort of profiling perspective, I’m not sure what The Five adds.

What we know of JTR was that he had both organised and disorganised aspects to his MO, which, if we accept the canonicals, or even a tight view of possible victims (Tabram in particular) is not just opportunistic, but adaptive.

He chose victims of opportunity, but he had a knife with him. From what we can tell, more or less the same type of weapon was used throughout, with Tabram being the only exception where there is evidence of two weapons, one as per the rest, and one that may have been a heavier, coarser weapon.

Again, there is no report, eyewitness account or documented instance of anyone fleeing a scene, or even seen nearby. Whether the Goulston Street graffito is part of the case or not, the section of Catherine Eddowes’ apron was real, so we know that JTR fled the scene that way, but did so without drawing attention to himself. So, despite the ferocity of his attacks, with Eddowes being particularly horrific, he has the ability to make his way, calmly enough, away.

Even if both Eddowes and Annie Chapman were merely sleeping rough, as the work of Rubenhold strongly suggests, it still fits with the general MO. JTR likely rendered both insensible through strangulation, and then delivered the fatal wounds before proceeding with the horrible mutilations.

What it suggests is that JTR was familiar enough with the neighbourhoods to know where rough sleepers were to be found. He may have patrolled those particular areas, keeping a watchful eye for opportune unfortunates. Rather than just luring them to a secluded spot, or responding to solicitation, he may have also actively searched for those most vulnerable, sleeping rough, possibly while intoxicated, to carry out his crimes.

This might suggest that his conversational ability may not have had to be fluent, if he was not relying too heavily on engaging his victims first. This was always a bar for me with Severin Klosowski, or George Chapman. In 1888, he was not in London long and his level of English must have necessarily been limited. The other implication would be if he had sufficient local knowledge then to know where to find the rough sleepers.

In recent times, much has been written about Elizabeth Stride, as to whether she is actually a JTR victim. It is worth stating that Inspector Abberline was utterly convinced of it. The entire extent of her injuries does fit with the MO, in so far as she appears to have been strangled with a ligature, her own scarf, before the fatal wound was inflicted. Were she simply to have been a victim of a pimp or a street gang, as many have suggested, it is doubtful they would have gone to the bother of doing both.

Stride was given to soliciting, but was also an accomplished grifter. She may have retired to the relative privacy of Dutfield’s Yard to gather herself after her altercation earlier, at which time JTR, doing his rounds, discovered her.

Rubenhold’s approach was not to try to find evidence or further the quest to ID the killer, but rather to shine a light on the lives of the real women who were victims, and set them in the context of their day. This she does with aplomb, sensitively and empathetically.

However, the major import of her work for the sleuth is merely to hone slightly the profile we already have of the shadowy figure, but alas not to illuminate him.
And I have wondered if Jack The Ripper carried a bottle of some very strong liquor with him, which he offered to them before striking, which helped to make them 'pliable'?
Or did he carry something like Chloroform to just knock them senseless?
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
East of Suez
Or did he carry something like Chloroform to just knock them senseless?

Use of chloroform as an incapacitating agent has become widely recognized, bordering on clichéd, due to the popularity of crime fiction authors having criminals use chloroform-soaked rags to render victims unconscious. However, it is nearly impossible to incapacitate someone using chloroform in this manner. It takes at least five minutes of inhaling an item soaked in chloroform to render a person unconscious. Most criminal cases involving chloroform also involve another drug being co-administered, such as alcohol or diazepam, or the victim being found to have been complicit in its administration. After a person has lost consciousness due to chloroform inhalation, a continuous volume must be administered and the chin must be supported to keep the tongue from obstructing the airway, a difficult procedure typically requiring the skills of an anesthesiologist. In 1865 as a direct result of the criminal reputation chloroform had gained, medical journal The Lancet offered a "permanent scientific reputation" to anyone who could demonstrate "instantaneous insensibility", i.e. losing consciousness instantaneously, using chloroform.

Source:
Chloroform
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Messages
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Then it may be that Jack The Ripper was watching for the most inebriated and incapacitated women coming out of the area pubs, or on the watch for women staggering down the road perhaps.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
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Messages
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Ronnie Jersey

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Were the bartenders at 'The Ten Bells' pub ever questioned to see if Jack was one of their customers, or perhaps he was seen hanging around outside?
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
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Messages
10,437
Currently enjoying a pint in the Ten Bells, Spitalfields, having just entered by the door through which Annie Chapman left, shortly before her terminal encounter with Saucy Jack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bells

maximus otter

Sorry about the lack of images in my original post (and for the duplication); l was using my geriatric, hand-me-down iPhone, with its poor camera and zero image editing facilities. Combine that with poor signal strength and rapidly-draining battery, and it’s not a recipe for Attenborough-quality documentaries.

Here’s the pub:

6CA16CA0-FEE2-4F8A-B67D-914A30049758.jpeg


…and the main door:

D39BCE9B-890F-425D-B537-11E31F2B3A8B.jpeg


The interior:

D80782C1-0275-4B31-9871-403903B569A0.jpeg


Your humble reporter:

473DE37E-D636-4AC6-B832-3F15A69618B0.jpeg


… Enjoying a pint of Razorback (the name seemed vaguely appropriate…)

Annie Chapman:

annie-chapman-photo.jpg


At about 0600hrs on 8th September 1888, Chapman’s body was found in the back yard of 29, Hanbury Street (only a couple of hundred yards from the Ten Bells). The body deposition site was demolished decades ago; it’s now, apparently, under this brewery:

939A430A-6631-4591-B709-EA13B818E7E4.jpeg


maximus otter
 
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maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
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Messages
10,437
Continuing with some armchair research, it becomes apparent just how claustrophobic the London of the Five and JTR was. Here is an OS town plan published in 1875, showing the Ten Bells as A and the Chapman body deposition site as B:

Ripper-Ten-Bells-Fortean-06.jpg


It's just over a 200 yard walk from A to B. (Note: A & B are exact; C, D & E just show the streets, not the exact locations of the offences/addresses.)

C is Dorset Street, where Miller's Court once stood, the locus where Mary Jane Kelly was butchered.

dorset.jpg


Dorset Street, late Victorian era

D is Thrawl Street, where Mary Ann Nichols lodged shortly before her murder.

E is Flower and Dean Street; both Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes lodged here, though at different addresses.

400px-flowerdeanlondon.jpg


Flower and Dean Street, 1902

And so on. I'm sure that with an hour or two's effort, I could populate the map with a lot more sites.

Here, by the way, is the exact map I used from the National Library of Scotland's superb site:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/229950164

Edited to clarify: the 1875 map (link above) shows the Ten Bells as being on the corner of Church Street, which has now been renamed Fournier Street; likewise, the Chapman body deposition site area is shown as Brown's Lane, this was renamed as Hanbury Street before the JTR era.)

To "explore" the area virtually, copy 'n paste the following latitude & longitude into Google Earth, it should drop you near the Ten Bells:

51° 31' 10" N, 0° 04' 28" W

maximus otter
 
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Dick Turpin

Abominable Snowman
Joined
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Messages
684
Sorry about the lack of images in my original post (and for the duplication); l was using my geriatric, hand-me-down iPhone, with its poor camera and zero image editing facilities. Combine that with poor signal strength and rapidly-draining battery, and it’s not a recipe for Attenborough-quality documentaries.

Here’s the pub:

View attachment 51816

…and the main door:

View attachment 51817

The interior:

View attachment 51818

Your humble reporter:

View attachment 51819

… Enjoying a pint of Razorback (the name seemed vaguely appropriate…)

Annie Chapman:

annie-chapman-photo.jpg


At about 0600hrs on 8th September 1888, Chapman’s body was found in the back yard of 29, Hanbury Street (only a couple of hundred yards from the Ten Bells). The body deposition site was demolished decades ago; it’s now, apparently, under this brewery:

View attachment 51820

maximus otter

You should have forewarned me Max. Yesterday I was in town, and was only around the corner from the Ten Bells .

I would have allowed you to buy me a pint lol
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,437
You should have forewarned me Max. Yesterday I was in town, and was only around the corner from the Ten Bells .

I would have allowed you to buy me a pint lol

The only way you’d get a drink out of me is to stick a finger down my throat.

;)

maximus otter
 

Ronnie Jersey

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
1,443
Sorry about the lack of images in my original post (and for the duplication); l was using my geriatric, hand-me-down iPhone, with its poor camera and zero image editing facilities. Combine that with poor signal strength and rapidly-draining battery, and it’s not a recipe for Attenborough-quality documentaries.

Here’s the pub:

View attachment 51816

…and the main door:

View attachment 51817

The interior:

View attachment 51818

Your humble reporter:

View attachment 51819

… Enjoying a pint of Razorback (the name seemed vaguely appropriate…)

Annie Chapman:

annie-chapman-photo.jpg


At about 0600hrs on 8th September 1888, Chapman’s body was found in the back yard of 29, Hanbury Street (only a couple of hundred yards from the Ten Bells). The body deposition site was demolished decades ago; it’s now, apparently, under this brewery:

View attachment 51820

maximus otter
Is that the Original wooden bar in the photo, from the 1800's??
 

Solexman

Junior Acolyte
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
75
Thinking about all of this again, from a sort of profiling perspective, I’m not sure what The Five adds.

What we know of JTR was that he had both organised and disorganised aspects to his MO, which, if we accept the canonicals, or even a tight view of possible victims (Tabram in particular) is not just opportunistic, but adaptive.

He chose victims of opportunity, but he had a knife with him. From what we can tell, more or less the same type of weapon was used throughout, with Tabram being the only exception where there is evidence of two weapons, one as per the rest, and one that may have been a heavier, coarser weapon.

Again, there is no report, eyewitness account or documented instance of anyone fleeing a scene, or even seen nearby. Whether the Goulston Street graffito is part of the case or not, the section of Catherine Eddowes’ apron was real, so we know that JTR fled the scene that way, but did so without drawing attention to himself. So, despite the ferocity of his attacks, with Eddowes being particularly horrific, he has the ability to make his way, calmly enough, away.

Even if both Eddowes and Annie Chapman were merely sleeping rough, as the work of Rubenhold strongly suggests, it still fits with the general MO. JTR likely rendered both insensible through strangulation, and then delivered the fatal wounds before proceeding with the horrible mutilations.

What it suggests is that JTR was familiar enough with the neighbourhoods to know where rough sleepers were to be found. He may have patrolled those particular areas, keeping a watchful eye for opportune unfortunates. Rather than just luring them to a secluded spot, or responding to solicitation, he may have also actively searched for those most vulnerable, sleeping rough, possibly while intoxicated, to carry out his crimes.

This might suggest that his conversational ability may not have had to be fluent, if he was not relying too heavily on engaging his victims first. This was always a bar for me with Severin Klosowski, or George Chapman. In 1888, he was not in London long and his level of English must have necessarily been limited. The other implication would be if he had sufficient local knowledge then to know where to find the rough sleepers.

In recent times, much has been written about Elizabeth Stride, as to whether she is actually a JTR victim. It is worth stating that Inspector Abberline was utterly convinced of it. The entire extent of her injuries does fit with the MO, in so far as she appears to have been strangled with a ligature, her own scarf, before the fatal wound was inflicted. Were she simply to have been a victim of a pimp or a street gang, as many have suggested, it is doubtful they would have gone to the bother of doing both.

Stride was given to soliciting, but was also an accomplished grifter. She may have retired to the relative privacy of Dutfield’s Yard to gather herself after her altercation earlier, at which time JTR, doing his rounds, discovered her.

Rubenhold’s approach was not to try to find evidence or further the quest to ID the killer, but rather to shine a light on the lives of the real women who were victims, and set them in the context of their day. This she does with aplomb, sensitively and empathetically.

However, the major import of her work for the sleuth is merely to hone slightly the profile we already have of the shadowy figure, but alas not to illuminate him.
I read “The five” and loved it. Fascinating look at the known and surmised lives of the canonical five. It was not intended to really be about JTR but rather an alternative angle of the social deprivation, injustices, misfortune and unfortunate lives of these women.
Read it as its intended and its great.
 

DrPaulLee

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I caught the last episode of the series "The Missing Evidence" tonight. I'd not seen it before, was it new? It was intriguing but I think I'm suffering from "suspect fatigue".
 

DrPaulLee

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I really should look before I leap. I've just read the relevant pages on casebook.org and the suspect had been known of for many years!
 

maximus otter

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Messages
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"The London Dungeon has come under fire for their 'astonishing lack of judgement' after renaming notorious serial killer Jack The Ripper to Jackie to mark International Women's Day.

The tourist attraction located along London's South Bank told visitors they would be changing the name of the serial killer to Jackie and replacing the usual male actor to a female one for their new exhibit today.

They went on to say the exhibit, which is based on the story of convicted murderer Mary Pearcey, would 'give ladies their dues for International Women's Day.'

However social media users slammed the move, with some arguing it reflected a 'lack of judgement'."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-serial-killer-women-Jack-Ripper-Jackie.html

maximus otter
 

ramonmercado

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Messages
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Location
Eblana
"The London Dungeon has come under fire for their 'astonishing lack of judgement' after renaming notorious serial killer Jack The Ripper to Jackie to mark International Women's Day.

The tourist attraction located along London's South Bank told visitors they would be changing the name of the serial killer to Jackie and replacing the usual male actor to a female one for their new exhibit today.

They went on to say the exhibit, which is based on the story of convicted murderer Mary Pearcey, would 'give ladies their dues for International Women's Day.'

However social media users slammed the move, with some arguing it reflected a 'lack of judgement'."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-serial-killer-women-Jack-Ripper-Jackie.html

maximus otter

Indeed. Extreme bad taste on IWD. If they had highlighted the Ripper's victims instead it would have gotten them good publicity.
 

Kondoru

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Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
9,252
I dont think the London Dungeon do Good Taste.

Anyhow, women dont do that stuff, do they??
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
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Messages
7,714
Indeed. Extreme bad taste on IWD. If they had highlighted the Ripper's victims instead it would have gotten them good publicity.
You can have female serial killers, although to be fair they are way behind in the equality stakes.

I have a dodgy picture of the street my Dad was born in in Liverpool. It's not as grim as the above two, but it's not a lot better either. And it was taken in 1920 when things had likely been tidied up a bit compared to his birth in 1910. It was in the old Italian Quarter, now entirely demolished and replaced by roads and university buildings. I don't think we can easily visualise the enormous gulf in conditions between now and 1888 for ordinary people.

But for 'unfortunates' especially those at what we might call the lower end of the 'trade' - well has there been that much of an improvement? Booze, then, drugs and booze now, still plenty of killers about, etc. etc.
 
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