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Jade Goody: Has She Truly Passed Away?

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I agreed with Brooker until he started having a go at people who had the temerity to express their dislike of Goody on message boards: mercifully, I never saw her on BB, but I did see her reduce a fellow contestant on another show to tears with her bullying and that led me to regard her as a nasty piece of work thereafter.

Just because I, and others, disliked her, that doesn't mean that we were necessarily glad she succumbed to her illness, but equally it doesn't mean we should have felt compelled either to join in with the sanctimonious circus or to refrain from expressing a distaste for the whole affair :?
 
Oh no! You mean I don't meet with the approval of Charlie Brooker just because I said a few nasty things about St Jade of Goody?

How will I live?

Maybe I should repent my sins?!

I'm sorry Jade, I loved you really and forgive you for being a nasty, racist, and ignorant chav bully. I'm sure if you hadn't have got cancer you would still have been the same self-serving, money grabbing, fame hungry media whore that this vile disease has taken from us all.

Thank the heavens that your family and widower have seen fit to sell everything you left behind for your children to as many newspapers and glossy magazines as possible. In them your legacy surely liveth on.

So sayeth the lord our god, Max Clifford. Amen!

:roll:
 
The venom and vitriol, heaped on Jade Goody's head, back from her first appearance in 'Big Brother', goes way beyond any attempt to rationalise it on the part of the hate mongers.

Obviously, Jade, like the many other young women who, for one reason, or another, become celebrities and some people love to hate, symbolises something deep, atavistic and rotten, in the human psyche. Goody just got it in spades, that's all. 'Burn, witch! Burn!'

What had the young woman done, but try to change her, sometimes miserable, circumstances? What had she actually done, to deserve some of the foulness heaped upon her, as she was slowly and painfully dying? Obviously, some thought that she didn't know her place and had ideas above her station. So she made some money. At least she came by it honestly. Was her name Bernie Madoff, Dick Cheney, or Tony Blair? All she ever had to sell was herself and the worst you can say about her is, from first to last, all she ever was, was herself. She certainly paid dearly for her short time in the limelight.

As the poet said, "Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
 
I don't think Mr Brooker was saying, "how dare you not be sad!", he was pointing out the massive hypocrisy of the media. That media had set this woman up as a figure of mockery, then a figure of outright hate, which many millions were happy to go along with, and many of those millions were left confused then quickly angry when that same media demanded they feel sympathy in what was a complete U-turn. And all to sell papers in the hope that they could have another Princess Di level of cash profit.
 
I agree with Brooker completely on that point, but some of the messageboard posts he then railed against were actually quite reasonable: it was almost as if he added the section as an afterthought in an attempt to protect himself from a feared onslaught from an army of indignant wailing webmongs.
 
My feelings on Jade herself were never that strong, one way or the other. I watched Brooker's programme, though, and can see his point. We're all now expected to take sides in the great "Jade: Saint or Sinner" debate, with no apparent middle ground. Me, I'll just be quite content when the funeral is over, and the Goody roadshow is off the front pages.

river_styx said:
Maybe I should repent my sins?!

I'm sorry Jade, I loved you really and forgive you for being a nasty, racist, and ignorant chav bully.
I don't even see her as having been deliberately nasty or racist. As an "ignorant chav", sadly, she probably knew no better. I'm not acting as an apologist for her behaviour, just suggesting that we're reading something conscious into what was probably unthinking behaviour.

Unlike your little piece of bile, for instance, which you clearly took some care and delight in compiling, and which marks you down as a nasty little twat.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
The venom and vitriol, heaped on Jade Goody's head, back from her first appearance in 'Big Brother', goes way beyond any attempt to rationalise it on the part of the hate mongers.

Obviously, Jade, like the many other young women who, for one reason, or another, become celebrities and some people love to hate, symbolises something deep, atavistic and rotten, in the human psyche. Goody just got it in spades, that's all. 'Burn, witch! Burn!'

What had the young woman done, but try to change her, sometimes miserable, circumstances? What had she actually done, to deserve some of the foulness heaped upon her, as she was slowly and painfully dying? Obviously, some thought that she didn't know her place and had ideas above her station. So she made some money. At least she came by it honestly. Was her name Bernie Madoff, Dick Cheney, or Tony Blair? All she ever had to sell was herself and the worst you can say about her is, from first to last, all she ever was, was herself. She certainly paid dearly for her short time in the limelight.

As the poet said, "Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

I can't speak for everyone else, but i personally despised Jade Goody because of her attitude, actions, words and the consequences she forced on other people, through those things.

I've grown up in working class areas all of my life, and i've also mixed with those on the lower runs of the upper classes. At the end of the day, people are people are people.

You get nasty pieces of work like Jade in all classes, in all jobs, in all colours, creeds and religions. My disliking for her has nothing to do with her place in society. She was a repulsive person because of who she was, not what she was.
 
Well I almost didn't bother, but............

............the whole manipulation of the media issue is pertinent and so is the eternal class issue.

I'm more or less neutral on St. Jade of Goody, in the same way that I was equally detached by 'The Death of Diana tm all media'. Such obvious media-fabricated personae can only engage one in the same way a soap wedding disaster does. They just don't feel real.

The initial BB which allowed a damaged child to get drunk, strip and then be captured having sex, was deeply disturbing. She was even traduced by the media suggesting she referred to her vagina as a 'kebab' (how freudian is that). Her comment actually referred to her 'belly' being like a kebab.

Regarding her very unpleasant bullying of Shilpa Shetty (interesting that the latter forgave her, but some people feel they have the 'right' to not to!) the real issue is that wrong as she was, she was prepared to argue to Shilpa Shetty's face; the other 2 women just fulfilled the role that all bullies need, sniggering approval. Although Jo O' Meara's 'career' seems over, isn't it obvious that Danielle Lloyd was allowed to get off scot-free to continue her 'page 3 stunna' occupation. If it's still on You Tube, check out the latter's behaviour.

Finally the whole 'racism' issue also reflects the official line on racism; Jo'M 'couldn't' be racist as she'd sung with a black person, some of DL's best friends were black. Ironically this would have been the best defence for Jade if she'd had decent advisors; as the only person who was part black she would have been immune from racism accusations. This is of course because 'Racism' only ever occurs from a 'white' person to a person of 'colour'.

Finally, if an over-privileged brat racially-abuses his fellow soldier, its ok as he's only bonding with the chaps, to show he's just like them!
 
I'm very uneasy about the 'class' thing in general because it makes huge assumptions, however it's used, about too many things. I'm sure it's relevant in some cases, but not everyone who dislikes this form of media circus and its participants is a snob and although there's no doubt that the media both set-up and then sanctified Jade Goody it seems to me that distancing her from any responsibility in the process is being just as patronising to her as an individual as any other form of class related bitchery.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with the individual - what I dislike is the event (I can't think of any other way of defining a celebrity for celebrity's sake career) and the event is a symbiosis of both media and individual.

As to Jade Goody the individual - I'm sorry for the loss to her family and especially her children and I'm sorry that she had to go through a process which, having been close to the experience myself, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. (Although I might temper that pity a little by wondering how many other people I never met have died in the time it will take me to write this post). As to the event - I make no apologies for the fact that I'm not unhappy that it's over.

But then it's not over is it? The media will squeeze every last drop out of the corpse and then move onto someone else. Maybe in a couple of years time the same rags that have hounded the poor woman from one side of the world to the other will be telling us that Amy Winehouse was a tortured genius on a par with Billie Holiday, and the class-warriors will be accusing those people who didn't buy her albums, and refuse to buy the hagiography, of being anti-semitic.
 
Spookdaddy said:
I have absolutely no axe to grind with the individual - what I dislike is the event (I can't think of any other way of defining a celebrity for celebrity's sake career) and the event is a symbiosis of both media and individual.

As to Jade Goody the individual - I'm sorry for the loss to her family and especially her children and I'm sorry that she had to go through a process which, having been close to the experience myself, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. (Although I might temper that pity a little by wondering how many other people I never met have died in the time it will take me to write this post). As to the event - I make no apologies for the fact that I'm not unhappy that it's over.
Blimey - a voice of reason. Well said!
 
Would not surprise me in the least if she died before, even well before, the official time in order to make it seem more tragic by having it happen on Mother's Day. Although would a doctor not have to validate an official time of death? Could be paid off I suspect to aid the myth.

I could not stand Goody in life, celebrated for being an idiot, rewarded for stupidity. Of course, in her position I too would have milked the situation for as much cash as possible. I suppose the vitriol should be aimed at the dimwits who watched her TV shows and bought magazines purely to read about her.

What disgusted me the most was the way people fell over themselves to give her money for her dream wedding, how politicians wasted time praising her brave fight etc... If each of the cretins from the House of Commons took a day out of their 'busy' schedule to visit a cancer ward in their constituency or meet a real everyday mother with young kids who doesn't have the money for fancy treatment or a magazine deal to secure her children's future they would perhaps truly understand bravery of cancer victims.

The way it was twisted and almost manipulated to make out she was the first person ever to have cancer must have been difficult for everyday people suffering the same problems on a recession-hit budget.

Of course Gordon Brown praising Jane Smith from Huddersfield or Betty brown from Swansea doesn't have the ratings winning appeal as belching up a sound byte about the self-anointed Princess of Essex.

I think it is a pretty slim hope that this will be the end of the sad circus now that the funeral is over. No doubt Team Goody have a few more plans of how to spin the story out for at least another month.
 
In the US its always about race. In the UK its class

Spookdaddy said:
I'm very uneasy about the 'class' thing in general because it makes huge assumptions, however it's used, about too many things. I'm sure it's relevant in some cases, but not everyone who dislikes this form of media circus and its participants is a snob and although there's no doubt that the media both set-up and then sanctified Jade Goody it seems to me that distancing her from any responsibility in the process is being just as patronising to her as an individual as any other form of class related bitchery.

My point was that the people who manipulated her were not from Bermondsey. Also, paraphrasing Malcolm MaClaren about Sid Vicious, just because an individual conspires in their own degradation, it doesn't absolve their exploiters.

I don't know if anyone remembers 'The Fishing Party' (which was 24 years ago) but it would be great to see far more reality TV abusing people who actually control our lives, like a factual version of 'The Thick of it'.
 
Re: In the US its always about race. In the UK its class

Sorry balding13, my post wasn't intended to be a specific response to your own - I'd just got thinking about the whole 'class' thing.

balding13 said:
...edit...paraphrasing Malcolm MaClaren about Sid Vicious, just because an individual conspires in their own degradation, it doesn't absolve their exploiters...

Absolutely. But equally the guilt of the exploiter doesn't completely absolve the individual from collaborating in their own downfall.
 
I still think she's judged too harshly

Her father and mother clearly failed to parent her. The horror of him being a heroin addict who overdosed fatally in a fast food joint, the lesbian (not that there's anything wrong with that) biker mother who loses an arm, makes her life sound like a plot too far-fetched for Shameless. I know if I'd had her upbringing, was very immature and was offered her faustian pact I'd have been much worse. Would I have been culpable? Definitely.

Regardless of this, the end to this sad story would have made more sense if she'd returned to poor obscurity like Viv Nicholson. There is something strange about the fact that she died a 'heroic' superstar, even if the media circus manufactured a lot of it.
 
Spookdaddy said:
Maybe in a couple of years time the same rags that have hounded the poor woman from one side of the world to the other will be telling us that Amy Winehouse was a tortured genius on a par with Billie Holiday, and the class-warriors will be accusing those people who didn't buy her albums, and refuse to buy the hagiography, of being anti-semitic.

But Amy has real talent, can sing, can play instruments, writes songs. JG couldn't do any of that.

Its sad that Amy is destroying herself like so many tortured artists before. Too early to say if she will be on a par with Billie Holliday. If she lasts another few years she might be.
 
ramonmercado said:
Spookdaddy said:
Maybe in a couple of years time the same rags that have hounded the poor woman from one side of the world to the other will be telling us that Amy Winehouse was a tortured genius on a par with Billie Holiday, and the class-warriors will be accusing those people who didn't buy her albums, and refuse to buy the hagiography, of being anti-semitic.

But Amy has real talent, can sing, can play instruments, writes songs. JG couldn't do any of that.

Its sad that Amy is destroying herself like so many tortured artists before. Too early to say if she will be on a par with Billie Holliday. If she lasts another few years she might be.
I have to admit, Amy Winehouse has the sort of voice and talent that is v.rare in any generation. However, she's been flooring the pedal on drug abuse and self destruct. Jade Goody may not have had much in the way of talent, but considering the miserable state of her drug corroded parents, she didn't seem to have succumbed to the deep fix of addiction, either. Which must count for something, after all those years of effectively acting as her mother's carer.
 
Actually Jade had quite a nice singing voice, there was a clip of her performance on Stars in Your Eyes on Newswipe.
 
ramonmercado said:
...edit...But Amy has real talent, can sing, can play instruments, writes songs. JG couldn't do any of that...

Agreed. But the point I was trying to make was really about the media's manipulation of public opinion rather than the relative talents of its targets.
 
Peripart said:
My feelings on Jade herself were never that strong, one way or the other. I watched Brooker's programme, though, and can see his point. We're all now expected to take sides in the great "Jade: Saint or Sinner" debate, with no apparent middle ground. Me, I'll just be quite content when the funeral is over, and the Goody roadshow is off the front pages.

river_styx said:
Maybe I should repent my sins?!

I'm sorry Jade, I loved you really and forgive you for being a nasty, racist, and ignorant chav bully.
I don't even see her as having been deliberately nasty or racist. As an "ignorant chav", sadly, she probably knew no better. I'm not acting as an apologist for her behaviour, just suggesting that we're reading something conscious into what was probably unthinking behaviour.

Unlike your little piece of bile, for instance, which you clearly took some care and delight in compiling, and which marks you down as a nasty little twat.

So even though you agree that she was ignorant I'm wrong for saying it?

And being nasty and racist is ok as long as you probably know no better?

But you see everybody is entitled to an opinion and your opinion of me is just as valid as my opinion of Jade. Although I would say that Jade has had far more exposure to the populace than me and that mine was formed with a little more insight.

Also it actually didn't take that much care writing my initial post, in fact it probably took you longer to read it, think about it, select which sentence best suited your response and then type that response before finally checking it for errors and then clicking submit.

Whatever the case though I'm happy that this nasty little twat helped provide you with at least 10 minutes entertainment and hope that venting your frustration has improved your health, wealth and happiness.
 
In light of recent posts, could posters please remember to keep any discussion both civil and on-topic?

Thanks.
 
And being nasty and racist is ok as long as you probably know no better?

To be fair I don't think Jade was racist in any meaningful sense of the word. The issues between Shilpa Shetty and Jade and the other Big Brother housemates seemed to be class-based rather than anything. Bullying is never acceptable but Jade at least confronted Shilpa rather than whispering about her behind backs. Shilpa also has said repeatedly that she has forgiven Jade for what was said.

I was never a huge fan of Jade while she was alive, but what I see is a young, poorly educated woman who seemed to love life and her family and friends. I've been shocked to read some of the vitriol on this board, which seems to boil down to:

1. Jade Goody was ignorant and poorly educated; and
2. she was not, in the opinion of the poster, sexually attractive

The apparent conclusion being that she should be mocked and, indeed, deserved to die. When challenged, the posters concerned simply scream that she was "racist" which apparently gives them carte blanche to be as offensive as possible. Interesting, especially given that Jade was herself mixed race.

I'm left speechless and the only conclusion is that there is an astonishing amount of snobbery and misogyny bubbling under the surface.

Edit: Mods feel free to move this to a more appropriate Jade thread if you wish
 
Quake42 said:
And being nasty and racist is ok as long as you probably know no better?

To be fair I don't think Jade was racist in any meaningful sense of the word. The issues between Shilpa Shetty and Jade and the other Big Brother housemates seemed to be class-based rather than anything. Bullying is never acceptable but Jade at least confronted Shilpa rather than whispering about her behind backs. Shilpa also has said repeatedly that she has forgiven Jade for what was said.

I was never a huge fan of Jade while she was alive, but what I see is a young, poorly educated woman who seemed to love life and her family and friends. I've been shocked to read some of the vitriol on this board, which seems to boil down to:

1. Jade Goody was ignorant and poorly educated; and
2. she was not, in the opinion of the poster, sexually attractive

The apparent conclusion being that she should be mocked and, indeed, deserved to die. When challenged, the posters concerned simply scream that she was "racist" which apparently gives them carte blanche to be as offensive as possible. Interesting, especially given that Jade was herself mixed race.

I'm left speechless and the only conclusion is that there is an astonishing amount of snobbery and misogyny bubbling under the surface.

Edit: Mods feel free to move this to a more appropriate Jade thread if you wish

As I said to one of the mods yesterday I had decided to give this thread a miss but I keep getting drawn back in to explain myself so I've no choice but to make this one, final post.

Put bluntly and basically I don't like bullys and I had a gut full of every excuse made about them when I was being victimised early on in life. "They come from a broken home." "They don't know any better." "They're just following the herd." "They've had a tough life".

So yeah, it's ironic then that my comments could be construde as bullying, but let's be honest shall we, the only reason she regretted her actions was because they hit her in the pocket and not through some profound, emotional epithany.

You can call the sexism and misogynism card if you like but I'd have said the same things about any bloke. And as for her being mixed race being interesting, that would only really have been so if anybody had made any racist comments. Which as far as I'm concerned I didn't and I don't appreciate it being implied in a post linked to a quote from me.

Maybe I'm a cynical, bitter, twisted human being who fails to see the point anymore, but I'll tell you one thing, I'm honest to my opinions even if they make me unpopular and if I'm on your side then you'll never have a more loyal comrade. But when the dust settles, I'm not changing and I'm not apologising to anybody.

There will be no more from me on this subject.
 
And as for her being mixed race being interesting, that would only really have been so if anybody had made any racist comments. Which as far as I'm concerned I didn't and I don't appreciate it being implied in a post linked to a quote from me.

It was certainly not my intention to imply that you or anyone else posting on this thread was racist, and reading my post again I struggle to see how you could interpret it as such. I mentioned that it was interesting that she is herself of mixed race as many people seem to see racism as a straightforward "whites vs others" issue. I'm also surprised that her advisers didn't tell her to make more of her background when the "racism" row erupted - Boris Johnson had no problems conjuring up a Muslim ancestor when his "grinning picaninnies" comment was getting a lot of airtime.

My point was that I don't believe that the woman was a racist and I'm tired of her detractors screaming that she was every time their vile comments are challenged. TBH even if she was, speaking with satisfaction about her dying of cancer at 27 is far more disgusting than any racist name-calling. To read some of the bile on here you would think she was a terrorist bomber or child murderer, rather than a poorly educated woman who was on telly a bit too often.

You can call the sexism and misogynism card if you like but I'd have said the same things about any bloke.

I don't believe that any of the comments about her appearance and weight would have been made if she was male.
 
Quake42 said:
I don't believe that any of the comments about her appearance and weight would have been made if she was male.

Hotch potch!

Ask James Cordon or Chris Moyles if they enjoy being the dictionary definition of 'fat, obnoxious, ugly, irritating twat'.

It's the only way to differentiate sometimes. Otherwise if I was to say 'obnoxious, irritating twat' then people would automatically think I was talking about Jamie Oliver.
 
Hotch potch!

Ask James Cordon or Chris Moyles if they enjoy being the dictionary definition of 'fat, obnoxious, ugly, irritating twat'.

It's not the same at all. There's nothing like the same level of vitriol aimed at overweight or unattractive blokes. They're rarely subject to anything more than good-natured ribbing. Not placards saying BURN THE PIG.

It's also worth mentioning that Jade, at her largest, was a size 16 - ie the same as the average British woman.
 
Quake42 said:
Hotch potch!

Ask James Cordon or Chris Moyles if they enjoy being the dictionary definition of 'fat, obnoxious, ugly, irritating twat'.

It's not the same at all. There's nothing like the same level of vitriol aimed at overweight or unattractive blokes. They're rarely subject to anything more than good-natured ribbing. Not placards saying BURN THE PIG.

It's also worth mentioning that Jade, at her largest, was a size 16 - ie the same as the average British woman.

I can't stand the size zero culture that pervades our media and pointless drivel like you get in the brainless mags like Heat etc... where some lass who has put on a few pounds is branded fat or to have a weight problem.

However, I think in the case of Goody she was such an obnoxious total package that people got carried away. It isn't like Fern Britton has had such jibes thrown at her when it was revealed she had had surgery, or Charlotte Church - another irritating loudmouth.

In fact, the only other larger ladies I can think of in the public eye who have suffered the same sort of vitriolic abuse are Vanessa Feltz and Beth Ditto. One of whom probably deserves all she gets and the other who doesn't seem to give a hoot - and more power to her.

I take your point in that some TV 'stars' are unfairly slated because of their weight - think also BB's Kinga compared to the likes of Kate Lawler or Grace or Orla - one was a bit curvy, loud but mostly harmless and got brutally ripped apart while three of them were horrible, vindictive, wretched, two-faced gits but didn't get anywhere near the abuse they deserved. So in that sense I agree.

But Goody transcends in a way that only a few other horribly self-serving individuals have - the likes of Jordan, V Beckham etc... They may not get abuse for being fat or ugly but they get it for being a supposed slut or too skinny. People as vacous and unaware of themselves like that will always attract harsh and vitriolic attacks.

And while blokes may be called fat in a more jokey way I'm sure it hurts no less than hearing it in nasty way - so bottom line it isn't really that different calling Goody a fat pig to calling Moyles or Cordon a fat useless twat. Or what about Robbie Williams being referred to as the 'fat one' from Take That? Was he ever what any of us would deem fat? It does happen to blokes as well, maybe not as much, but then weight isn't such a big issue to men as it is to women I don't think
 
Not according to Liam Gallagher. Though why anyone would believe him, I don't know.
 
Oh gowd, is this thread still going?
I wrote in to a major newspaper that I had enough of reports about JG, I thought now that she is buried that would be it, but no, now they stalk her useless mother and report every fart the woman does.
Shut up every one about JG, shut UP!!!!
Judging by all the arguments about her she MUST have been somehow worth discussing... :?
Just close the thread and get on with life, or admit that she was somehow interesting enough to have arguments about her.

I'm out of this thread again...byeeee
 
Dingo667 said:
...Just close the thread and get on with life, or admit that she was somehow interesting enough to have arguments about her.
I have to say, I agree - we've dealt with the putative purpose of the thread, and bearing in mind that many of these issues are being similarly aired in the other Jade Goody thread in chat, can anyone give me a compelling reason to keep this one open?
 
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