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When Epstein was arrested this time, Trump denied he even knew the man, so within 24 hours the news programs showed still photography and video footage of Donald yucking it up with Jeffrey at parties. Trump, too, flew on the so-called "Lolita Express."

Saturday evening I was reading on a website where someone who had done an enormous amount of research on Epstein for a proposed book commented that it was her belief that Epstein was a thoroughgoing narcissist. This led her to conclude that it would be very strange for him to want to kill himself at this precise moment. She felt that he could very well end up committing suicide, but only later in the criminal justice process, AFTER the enjoyment of taking down at least a number of clients/enemies he had kompromat on. Her take was that he was a vengeful man when it concerned people who had crossed him.

Of course, this is all mere speculation, but then that word's in the title of this thread, so I thought I would toss it out here as another take on the situation.

(edited because of a typo)
 
It's easy to assume guilt by association, and we should be careful of that. Here's Stephen Pinker on such accusations, based on the fact that he had been seen/photographed with Epstein: Tarring Steve Pinker and others with Jeffrey Epstein.

True, both Clinton and Trump have both been accused of sexual misconduct (including rape) on multiple occasions. Both were associates of Epstein. But it doesn't necessarily follow that Epstein was procuring them underage sex-slaves. Wait for some actual evidence, not just innuendo.
 
Given the man's ubiquitous presence in society, I expect there are few people among the world's high rollers who have not been seen with him. Heck, you don't get to be rich and influential by turning down free plane rides and free parties.
 
The jokes are coming thick & fast. I just read this one elsewhere...

If you're surprised that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide this morning
renderTimingPixel.png

Imagine how surprised he must have been.

--------------

This is a story that will be interesting to see how it pans out. There are so many possibilities and so many with so much to hide. Time will tell. Perhaps.
 
Given the man's ubiquitous presence in society, I expect there are few people among the world's high rollers who have not been seen with him. Heck, you don't get to be rich and influential by turning down free plane rides and free parties.


Exactly
The entertainment value for us observers though is in watching celebrities who, not so many years ago were more than happy to be associated with Epstein, drop him faster than an angry tarantula once details of what went on at his parties became public. I guess we all like to see the supposed great and the good being toppled from their pedestals!
 
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Remember that there is a limit, very quickly reached, about what the forums can host as accusations and innuendo against the living and untried......

Frideswide
 
Remember that there is a limit, very quickly reached, about what the forums can host as accusations and innuendo against the living and untried......
Frideswide

But I hope memes are allowed. I find them highly entertaining. ... And, in fact they're modern summaries of the conspiracy theories. In earlier years these communication battles were fought with pamphlets. Today they're fought with memes.
 
Remember that there is a limit, very quickly reached, about what the forums can host as accusations and innuendo against the living and untried......

Frideswide

I get that.
In which case I would have thought it would be wise to prohibit ANY conspiracy threads implicating living people.
If we can't float any memes based on what's being claimed on the Internet, then what is the point of the thread?
 
If we can't float any memes based on what's being claimed on the Internet, then what is the point of the thread?

This is an adult group and people enjoy these threads. Self governance is recommended - nobody has to contribute after all :)

Frides
 
Remember that there is a limit, very quickly reached, about what the forums can host as accusations and innuendo against the living and untried......

Frideswide
Understood . But we live in bizarre times where clearly the PTB's are using the law to suppress legitimate enquiry. So what do we do?

My temptation is to set up a web site in say Venezuela and let you all speak out.
 
I'm sure you'll find some backers on a website in Caracas.
 
The death of Jeffrey Epstein set off a wave of conspiracy theories online that demonstrate both how social media fuels misinformation and threatens to erode public acceptance of the results of any investigation.

Mr. Epstein, 66, was found unresponsive in his Manhattan jail cell Saturday morning after hanging himself, authorities said. He faced trial on charges of orchestrating a yearslong sex-trafficking operation involving girls as young as 14. He had been on suicide watch but was taken off in late July following daily psychiatric evaluations, a person familiar with the matter said.

The news prompted outrage from government officials and Mr. Epstein’s victims, all wondering how the suspect was allowed to take his own life before facing the courts in a case that threatened to implicate others. Authorities have launched investigations into why the death happened, but the slow process of fact-gathering isn’t keeping pace with the rapid spread of theories online.

Among the more outlandish theories gathering attention on social media: Mr. Epstein, who for decades mingled with the rich and politically powerful, including President Trump and former President Bill Clinton, was murdered by someone fearful of what he may say. Another theory postulates Mr. Epstein isn’t even dead.

Hashtags supporting wild theories about those responsible for Mr. Epstein’s death have been spread by tens of thousands of tweets, according to an analysis by Storyful, a social-media intelligence agency owned by News Corp , which also owns The Wall Street Journal.

One, #ClintonBodyCount, has already trended at various points in recent years. Another hashtag, #TrumpBodyCount, pushed by anti-Trump users has appeared in response to the Clinton hashtag.

Also circulating were tweets and Facebook posts that falsely cited Hillary Clinton as predicting Mr. Epstein would commit suicide. Another involved an unsubstantiated claim about a camera malfunction in Mr. Epstein’s jail cell.

Just hours after the death was reported, Mr. Trump promoted a false claim suggesting former President Bill Clinton was implicated. Mr. Trump on Saturday retweeted to his 63 million followers a post from a man asserting Mr. Epstein “had information on Bill Clinton & now he’s dead.”
“Ridiculous, and of course not true,” said a spokesman for Mr. Clinton. “And Donald Trump knows it.”

Mark Fenster, a University of Florida law professor who has written about conspiracy theories in U.S. democracy, said the lack of facts is what allows conspiracies and misinformation to take off. “If you were to write a bad novel about Jeffrey Epstein, ” Mr. Fenster said, “this would happen.”

Mr. Rubio, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said on Sunday that Russian bots and trolls were promoting theories about Mr. Trump and Mr. Clinton. He provided no evidence to support the claim of Russian interference. “It’s sad (and frightening) to see so many Americans on both sides…unwittingly helping them,” Mr. Rubio wrote on Twitter. Russian President Vladimir Putin, he added, “has weaponized our polarization.”

“The internet is remarkably egalitarian and useful, but we still have not come up with a way to filter out the craziness,” said James Broderick, a professor at New Jersey City University and co-author of a book about online conspiracy theory sites. “As long as major questions remain unanswered” about Mr. Epstein, Mr. Broderick said, “many people will formulate their own answers, whether or not those are rooted in truth.”
 
The Broderick book is a standard summary of the most common (web driven) conspiracy theories. Nothing new here.

The Fenster Book is an academic study, quite solid, but coming from a leftist "critical studies" ("grievance studies" :) ) angle. I find that just barely tolerable, but it has some good theories about the sources of populist thinking. And the difference between leftist and rightist populism.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5749/j.ctttsw9q

Thanks Amazon for letting us download free book samples :)
 
Did everybody get the wiseguys' take?

The jail where Jeffrey Epstein apparently hanged himself was a nest of corruption in the early ’90s, according to one of late mobster John Gotti Sr.’s top associates — who insists it’s still a place where almost anything can be bought if you have the bucks.

“If he killed himself someone had to have helped him,” said Lewis Kasman, a onetime close confidant of the Dapper Don who visited the godfather several times at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in 1992.

“There are cameras going 24/7 and they’re watching 24/7. Someone had to give [Epstein] the equipment to kill himself and he had to pay for it dearly,” said Kasman, who has kept abreast of conditions in the lockup.

Kasman added: “That facility for years had issues of corruption, with correction officers bringing in food or cellphones for wealthy people.”

The former Gambino bean counter noted that Gotti, who did time both in the jail’s 9 South and 10 South units, its most secure wings, still managed to get his favorite steak dinner sneaked in: “He had Peter Luger’s whenever he wanted.”

Kasman said he heard US Attorney General William Barr personally made a hush-hush trip to the MCC two weeks ago, about the time Epstein was found in his cell with bruises around his neck.


Continued briefly:
https://nypost.com/2019/08/11/forme...-epstein-died-catered-toward-wealthy-inmates/
 
Dodgy people have been 'rubbed out' for much less than what Epstein is accused of.

It would make sense for it to happen to him.

Dead men not talking; and all that.

INT21.
 
A man at the nexus of high finance, politics, and socialites.
Possible links to one or more state intelligence services (wittingly and unwittingly).
Connected to some of the main entities of the 2008 world economic crash.
Almost certainly would have known of activities that could tarnish the reputation of said financiers, politicians and socialites.

Dies an unnatural death.

Of course there will be conspiracy theories.

The only question I have is how he survived this long?

My guess is he was still of use to those intelligence services until recently, but as soon as he was more of a liability than an asset, and liable to spill some of the beans, they silenced him.
It should be noted he was not from generational wealth, he grew up from humble beginnings.
So he had no old school tie family leverage that could bargain for clemency.

I think it a 90% chance he was murdered.
 
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The jail where Jeffrey Epstein apparently hanged himself was a nest of corruption in the early ’90s, according to one of late mobster John Gotti Sr.’s top associates — who insists it’s still a place where almost anything can be bought if you have the bucks./


That's probably true of pretty much any prison you care to name.

“There are cameras going 24/7 and they’re watching 24/7. Someone had to give [Epstein] the equipment to kill himself and he had to pay for it dearly,” said Kasman, who has kept abreast of conditions in the lockup.

/

How much equipment do you need to hang yourself? Any stoutish material could do the job.

It's extremely convenient though, & despite the fact he was on suicide watch. If he was. Maybe he was banged to rights & couldn't face the rest of his life in jail, which could be the likely outcome.
 
I think Donald Trump knew what Epstein was doing and dumped him all those years ago.

"Trump barred Jeffrey Epstein from Mar-a-Lago over sex assault: court docs

Jeffrey Epstein turned Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago into another of his hunting grounds for young girls, leading Trump to bar him from the Florida resort, court papers claim.

“Trump allegedly banned Epstein from his Maralago Club in West Palm Beach because Epstein sexually assaulted a girl at the club,” according to the papers..."

https://nypost.com/2019/07/09/trump...-from-mar-a-lago-over-sex-assault-court-docs/

maximus otter
 
If that was true then it means that Trump was aware of these crimes yet failed to report them to the authorities. He could be open to charges of failure to report a felony, obstruction of justice etc.

I think this is just some Trump friendly media trying to spin the story in his favour but are actually making the situation worse for him.
 
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