Fallen Angel said:If you are specifically and vehemently anti-Christian you are by definition in favor of the opposite: the devil.
I was not insulting you but using logic - if not one then the other - your actions cannot have a null result/effect. Nothing in life does, that's true all the way to the quantum mechanics level of existance. If you see it differently, or deny the existance of either one, how can you be insulted? If there is no devil then my claim that your actions support him has no meaning.
Zygon said:it was the breathtaking arrogance of the suggestion that I should be pitied for my attitudes, and the equally blithe assumption that a concept like 'sin' -which has no meaning except in your personal belief system- should be binding on people who don't share your beliefs. That's essentially oppression, and I found it offensive for that reason.
The pity was for you because you will never be saved. Which believe it or not means that I wish you well. But on the other hand, I need to rethink wasting time and positive thoughts on people who think wrongdoing (no matter what name you place on it) is an idea without meaning.Interestingly, discussing this thread with another board member, I was told I need to remember to pity those who are so unable to admit that they might be wrong, because those tend to be the same people who are never saved, because they can never admit that they are sinners.
Monk's make some of the best fruit cake's and other culinary delites around (I seen it on TV!) and if dot23 and me can be buds theres got to be a God!! so there!!!
What you need to rethink is your definition of 'wrongdoing'. Hint: a wrong committed for the right reasons is still a wrong. (There I go, stating the obvious again, but apparently it's necessary.)Fallen Angel said:...I need to rethink wasting time and positive thoughts on people who think wrongdoing (no matter what name you place on it) is an idea without meaning.
Originally posted by Stu Neville
A lot depends on how you define Christianity - if you mean the central tenets of being nice and tolerant to others, and treating them in the manner you would wish to be treated, then that's perfectly sound.
ibid.
- so long as they don't start dissing me for what I don't believe.
Your pre-conceived notions that every Christian looks down their nose at non Christians and that every thing I say is a denounciation of non Christians causes you to read into my posts things that I did not say.
The pity was for you because you will never be saved.
Since I feel my view is the right one, I feel bad that you've got a diagreement with it
I can know that my friends who are pagan are wrong in their beliefs
Sorry, but in this case I believe his education and credentials outweighs yours.
Interestingly, discussing this thread with another board member, I was told I need to remember to pity those who are so unable to admit that they might be wrong, because those tend to be the same people who are never saved, because they can never admit that they are sinners.
Edward said:Seems Christianity makes one forgetful [/b]
Is there any chance you chaps could get back to the original debate 'cause it's very interesting.
It's presumptuous. It's condescending. It's patronizing. It's prideful. It's arrogant. Isn't that enough ways of bad?Fallen Angel said:Pity for someone who will not enjoy something you believe is good for them is bad in what way exactly?
ibid.
Listen, just because you don't value something doesn't mean that someone's desire for you to share what they value is ill meant or bigoted.
ibid.
That's one of the most common misconceptions about Christianity; that the desire to share it is a bad thing.
ibid.
If I knew of a terrific new restaurant and suggested you really ought to try it, would you be offended? I haven't even said "try it and see" - I've only said that by my lights, it's rather sad that you'll never share this great thing.
Originally posted by Fallen Angel on Aug. 14
Nor will you ever be in love, or, in my opinion, live a very satisfying life.
ibid.
quote:
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Sorry, but in this case I believe his education and credentials outweighs yours.
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The man has multiple degrees and speaks reads and writes the languages the documents in question were originally written in. How can you argue that his credentials don't in fact outweigh FL's? It was a statement that FL was free to repudiate, and he did, questioning where the degrees were obtained, and I have not yet found the answer as Pastor Z*** is on vacation with his family.
If I knew of a terrific new restaurant and suggested you really ought to try it, would you be offended? I haven't even said "try it and see" - I've only said that by my lights, it's rather sad that you'll never share this great thing.
Edward said:FA, I think that you can be pretty sure that the majority of contributors to this board have sampled most if not all of the menu at 'Chez Jesus' and found the dishes tasteless, unfulfilling and hard to swallow. The service is stiff and unaccomodating and the decor whilst grand and imposing is ultimately a distraction (presumably due to the lack of substance in its meals).
May I recomend occasional visits to the 'The Bhudda Lounge', 'Pagan Pizza', 'Pret-a-Muslim', K.F.Sikh. All good eateries and a welcome change to any strict diet.
so gimme a break. What is with you people that you insist on reading into a post what is not there?! Is it so important to you all to make me wrong for my beliefs that you have to resort to mis-quoting and taking statements out of context to support what you WISH I had said, so your attacks would then be justified?"I have not even said 'try it' "
for many post I could not figure what that word was...now it hit me!! its like christmas =xmas. learn something new everyday! Ok -back to Jesus. He is whatever you want him to be here in america. The father ,son, and holy ghost (thats what I was brought up to beleive in sunday school) or a great philosypher, or a really chrismatic speaker like that real tall dark haired guy that makes alot of money to do them "take my course and be popular and have people like you" (like me) (like lifesprings, amway,est...etc. people) or like "Stan Lee" , back then 2000 years ago he could have been like a 1 in a million type guy ! real smart like L.RON HUBBERT of Scienentificology who think your engrams need ajusting ,for your brains to work right cause your parents filled you full of alot of bullshit that their parents fill them up with also, and caused things like slavery and pediphiles and MAMBA clubs, cause Peter Townsend got into alot of trouble looking at folks to young to be naked and stuff. If he would have went to a site like "Rapture Ready" he woouldn't have gotton his hard drives looked at! So, its all down to who's right for "you" and what is beleiving and what is studying a persons Ideas and writtings that were done so long ago that even Carl Sagan, wasn't gonna take it for face value but can get alot of cross referencing from certain parables and stories for his classes and "cosmos, series" ad infinitum. I think I beleived in Jesus more as a "God" a few times in my younger days in the Navy when I thought I was gonna die.xtianity
NEW YORK (October 30, 4:39 p.m. PST) - ABC News correspondent Elizabeth Vargas concedes her network is stepping into a theological minefield with its one-hour exploration of whether Jesus Christ had a wife.
The ABC News special, "Jesus, Mary and DaVinci," is scheduled to air Monday at 8 p.m. ET.
"You can't talk about this subject without intriguing people or offending people," Vargas said Thursday. "We're trying to do it as respectfully as we can."
ABC screened the special for some reporters and religious leaders on Thursday. The program is based on the best-selling novel, "The DaVinci Code," which claims to be partly grounded on historical fact.
The book asserts that Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife - not a prostitute, as in some teachings - and that she fled Jerusalem with his child following his crucifixion.
The story was kept alive for centuries by a secret society that included the painter Leonardo DaVinci, who supposedly inserted clues about it in his art, the book claimed.
The ABC special outlines the theories and speaks to several theologians who either discount the story or assert that it is possible.
The show unravels like a mystery perpetuated by secondhand gossip. Vargas said ABC found no proof that Jesus had a wife, but couldn't completely discount it, either.
Vargas, who was raised a Roman Catholic, said her own parents said to her, "Oh, my goodness, what are you doing?" when they found out she was working on the story.
She said she was never aware of the power struggles and political intrigue that went into how her faith is taught today.
"For me, it's made religion more real and, ironically, much more interesting - which is what we're hoping to do for our viewers," she said.
It drew some immediate criticism, particularly from a representative of the Catholic League, who said ABC News relied too heavily on the opinion of Father Richard McBrien of Notre Dame, who believes Mary Magdalene's importance has been historically understated and that it's possible she was his wife.
"I think it was not sufficiently balanced," said Joseph DeFeo, policy analyst for the Catholic League. "The majority of the people who spoke believed in either the plausibility or the outright truth of ('DaVinci Code' author) Dan Brown's claims. The facts themselves scream out that this is a crackpot theory."
The show even drew criticism from Nikki Stephanopoulos, mother of ABC News correspondent George and the communications director for the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. She the special might offend people who believe that women have a more prominent role in the church.
I wouldn't mind this sort of exploration so much, if it wasn't for the fact that so much of the theory appears to be based on a series of books that seem to use the same sort of reverse engineering logic (pick a theory and work backwards with your facts to make them fit), that worked so well for Erich von Daniken, back in the Seventies.rynner said: