JFK: Kennedy Assassination Etc.

Who killed JFK?

  • Lee Harvey Oswald

    Votes: 26 28.6%
  • Mafia

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • CIA/FBI

    Votes: 31 34.1%
  • Cubans

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • KGB

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • The Illuminati/Masons/Lizards

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • all of the above

    Votes: 18 19.8%

  • Total voters
    91

Vardoger

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People has wondered what this means. Congressman Albert Thomas winks at LB Johnson during the swearing in ceremony.
1628177634491.png
 

Ascalon

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It could - and will - be very hard, because it will be necessary to wade through the thickets of documentation generated since the events of interest and determine the evidentiary weight of all the commentary and spin that's been inserted over the last 6 decades.

The JFK assassination - like any number of other strange events - has become encrusted with a thick mantle of speculation and myth-making.

Another thing to bear in mind is that large-scale document analysis using AI / machine learning cannot product results more precise than the documentation that serves as its raw material. There's little consistency in expository precision and nomenclature among all the authors who've written on the subject.
The trouble with the accumulation approach is, how do you know what's accurate and what isn't? What mistakes (and lies) have been repeated because of confirmation bias and what is genuinely objective? Or even factual? The further away you get from something, the more obscure it is going to look and the bigger picture just looks like a confusion, as De Palma discovered.

Indeed, this is precisely what ML has got good at in recent times. Being able to examine known good data, from good sources and evaluate it against data that comes form less well supported sources.

Pattern analysis has allowed the timeline of data and theories to be examined, analysing its lifecycle to see how it has evolved, and under what influences, allowing root tracing to see if it came from anything substantial.

The reason that it is not more widely used is that it still takes quite a bit of horsepower, access to multiple, disparate data sources and a bit of nous to set it up in the first place.

But, I would contend, that as both the power to do these things, the expertise to set them up and the inherent capabilities of the systems all increase, increasingly complex, sophisticated and vexing issues can be examined, much in the way that topics such as smoking health effects, anthropomorphic climate change, and many more, were examined in the past, when multiple, longitudinal studies became available, but taking hours, not decades.
 

GNC

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I admire your optimism, but the reason these things are mysteries is that a part of the puzzle is missing or has been obscured, how would this cope?
 

Ascalon

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I admire your optimism, but the reason these things are mysteries is that a part of the puzzle is missing or has been obscured, how would this cope?
Machine learning is getting very good at pattern recognition in data architectures. So the systems look at thousands of investigations and they see the respective key features and major elements. It looks for those in others and can spot where there are missing, manipulated or untrustworthy strands.

It doesn't give you a magic answer, but it tells you which bits need to be examined, which are ropey and what is missing. It is like having a critical overview of something, based on the deep reference of a thousand human careers. So it applies information theory, through the lens of investigative rules, informed by a multitude of cases.

There have been some very interesting things done, like meta studies that examine all other available studies collectively, and can often shed new light when final interpretation is done by humans. But the point is, the hard work is done by machine in a manageable time that would otherwise take several human lifetimes to accomplish. And then a human can make the final judgement.

I really think some very interesting stuff is going to come form the techniques and tools.
 

charliebrown

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Movie maker Oliver Stone who made the movie JFK in 1991, this year in the Cannes Film Festival showed a documentary called JFK Revisited.

Oliver presented more unproven ideas on the CIA, President Lyndon B. Johnson, the umbrella man, the babushka lady, the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, etc.

Movie critics called the documentary disappointing since it offered no real direction into what happen to JFK.
 

charliebrown

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Of all the characters in this JFK conspiracy, the Babushka headscarf wearing lady with a camera ( or gun ) near Kennedy was never found or identified.

According to Wikipedia, in 1970 a Beverly Oliver tried to claim that this was her and she said with her Super 8 Yashica camera filmed the event and gave the film to Men in Black looking for this film.

Beverly claimed the Men in Black never returned her film as promised.

All of this was thrown out as a fantasy since the Super 8 Yashica did not come to market until 1969.

But Beverly claimed she was sold an advanced camera to try out and evaluate for Yashica.
 

Floyd1

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There is an interview here with a very well respected C.I.A Photoanalyst Dino Brugioni who was visited by Agents with the (true/original) Zapruder film late on Saturday the 23rd- the day after the assassination. They all watched the film, Brugioni then made stills for the agents. They took the film away and that was the last time the TRUE film has been shown.
It's 1hr 25 m long, so only for people who have a real interest in this, but worth watching, in my opinion, if you do.
https://jfkfacts.org/rewinding-the-...Dh0acGBnA5aa2Shoek3ugg0KbI2HJLKkRYthOMxE1pi-0
 

GerdaWordyer

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Oliver Stone is a master of deadpan humor. "The Doors" is pretty funny too.
 

Floyd1

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Or the route was chosen because it went past the book depository?
No, they had to go that way through the Plaza because they were headed north onto the freeway to the next stop on JFK's tour (via North Stemmons Freeway), to the Dallas Trade Mart at 2100 North Stemmons, and you can only access the northbound on-ramp by going that way.
 

maximus otter

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White House delays release of JFK assassination files "to protect against identifiable harm"


iu


The White House said Friday it would delay the release of long-classified documents related to the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy. President Joe Biden wrote in a statement that the remaining files "shall be withheld from full public disclosure" until December 15 next year -- nearly 60 years after Kennedy's assassination in Dallas, Texas in 1963.

In 2017, former president Donald Trump released several thousand secret files on the assassination, but withheld others on national security grounds.

The White House said the national archivist needs more time for a review into that redaction, which was slowed by the pandemic.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jfk-assassination-files-release-delayed-white-house/

maximus otter
 

uair01

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Cuban exile told sons he trained Oswald, JFK’s accused assassin, at a secret CIA camp
BY NORA GÁMEZ TORRES UPDATED OCTOBER 30, 2021 12:33 PM

Almost 40 years after his death following a bar brawl in Key Biscayne, Ricardo Morales, known as “Monkey” — contract CIA worker, anti-Castro militant, counter-intelligence chief for Venezuela, FBI informant and drug dealer — returned to the spotlight Thursday morning when one of his sons made a startling claim on Spanish-language radio:

Morales, a sniper instructor in the early 1960s in secret camps where Cuban exiles and others trained to invade Cuba, realized in the hours after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas in 1963 that the accused killer, Lee Harvey Oswald, had been one of his sniper trainees.
Morales also told his two sons that two days before the assassination, his CIA handler told him and his “clean-up” team to go to Dallas for a mission. But after the tragic events, they were ordered to go back to Miami without learning what the mission was about.


The claims made by Ricardo Morales Jr. during a show on Miami’s Actualidad Radio 1040 AM, add to one of the long-held theories about the JFK assassination — that Cuban exiles working for the CIA had been involved. But the claims also point the finger at the CIA, which some observers believe could help explain why President Joe Biden backed off last week on declassifying the remaining documents in the case.

Etc ... not my speciality ... can't tell if this is interesting.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article255356661.html#storylink=cpy
 

Swifty

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Singer Meat Loaf and his anecdote about him and his two other teenage friend's involvement in Dallas when JFK was shot. Skip to1:55 for this crazy tale to begin ..

 

Mythopoeika

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Meat has lost a lot of weight.
 

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Singer Meat Loaf and his anecdote about him and his two other teenage friend's involvement in Dallas when JFK was shot. Skip to1:55 for this crazy tale to begin ..

He also once possibly gave a ride to Manson; (Starts at 11.40).
 

Floyd1

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Right. Here's my take on it;

Someone (FBI, CIA, Mossad, MI6, Mafia- whoever) got wind of Oswald and said 'he's our guy'. They asked him if he'd do something for them and he said 'sure'.

Now on the actual day, either;
1 Oswald killed Kennedy,
2 Oswald attempted to, but genuinely missed,
3 Oswald missed on purpose (bottled out).
Whoever hired him knew that scenarios 2 and 3 might very well occur so they had people positioned all around to make sure the job got done.
Either way, Oswald was going to be taking the blame and that's what he meant when he said he was a 'patsy'.
Personally, I think it was option 3 that occurred.

As for Ruby, I think he was just trying to be a 'Hero'.
 

Kingsize Wombat

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Right. Here's my take on it;

Someone (FBI, CIA, Mossad, MI6, Mafia- whoever) got wind of Oswald and said 'he's our guy'. They asked him if he'd do something for them and he said 'sure'.

Now on the actual day, either;
1 Oswald killed Kennedy,
2 Oswald attempted to, but genuinely missed,
3 Oswald missed on purpose (bottled out).
Whoever hired him knew that scenarios 2 and 3 might very well occur so they had people positioned all around to make sure the job got done.
Either way, Oswald was going to be taking the blame and that's what he meant when he said he was a 'patsy'.
Personally, I think it was option 3 that occurred.

As for Ruby, I think he was just trying to be a 'Hero'.
I can go along with that on the whole. But I think that Oswald was never meant to survive that day, maybe he was meant to be killed "resisting arrest"? The Tippit shooting and Oswald's strange behaviour in the cinema during his arrest make me think that might be the case.

I tend to think Ruby was pressured into killing Oswald - but of course we will never know for sure.
 

Floyd1

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I believe such things were common practice at the time as there was no reason do suspect trouble and do otherwise.

The fact that the route was public is not a matter of suspicion. The determination of the route may be.
No. The route taken was the only route possible to get JFK to his next destination. You will sometimes hear people say, 'ah, but the road layout was different back then', which is true, but only insofar as the part of Elm steet where JFK was shot was then a two-way street and is now a one-way. However, it makes no difference as the only way to access the Northbound on-ramp to the Freeway, then and still today, is to be in the furthest righthand lane of Elm.
 

Floyd1

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This is the ramp (as it is today) that Ruby walked down. I don't think it would have been too difficult for him. The police and security were too overwhelmed by all the reporters who had gathered in the basement -lots of noise and pushing- and their main concern was just to get LHO out of there and to the County jail. The other ramp on Commerce Street was blocked off with a vehicle. (As an aside, John Peel was down in the basement when Oswald was shot. He was working for a Dallas newspaper at the time).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@32.7...4!1sXkMhyICGCPzBD3e47e75EQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
 

Floyd1

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Never seen this picture before. John Wayne visiting US Marines in the Philippines Jan 1958 with Lee Harvey Oswald apparently standing behind him back and to the left, back and to the left.

View attachment 48099
Another thing that puzzles me is that Oswald never seemed like he would be tough enough to be a marine. We all know what the training is like and I just can't see him handling it (unless the training wasn't as difficult back then?).
 

Mythopoeika

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Another thing that puzzles me is that Oswald never seemed like he would be tough enough to be a marine. We all know what the training is like and I just can't see him handling it (unless the training wasn't as difficult back then?).
He was a radar operator.
 

Floyd1

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(So), maybe it's different in the States, but here if you're in a particular regiment you all do the same basic training. In the Royal Engineers for eg, it doesn't matter if you are going to be a bricklayer, draughtsman, surveyor, bomb disposal, or driver, you all do the same basic training. You may even be looking after the socks and gas masks in the stores but the same applies. And I've seen full metal jacket- the Marines are tough b******s!
 

EnolaGaia

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Oswald had to complete basic training just like any other Marine. However, during the time of his enlistment (1956 - 1959) basic training lasted for 10 weeks (historically a relatively short period). This basic training period was increased in the early 1960s.

Non-infantry Marines must complete a combat training course that's not as lengthy (nor, presumably, as stressful) as Marines selected for the infantry. Oswald was selected for a non-infantry specialty.
 

Lord Lucan

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Oliver Stone has a new 4 part documentary: JFK: Destiny Betrayed exploring the Kennedy assassination coming out next week:

No stone unturned​

Oliver Stone’s JFK documentary revisits America’s darkest day and demands answers.
Oliver Stone has always been politically outspoken and at 75 he shows no signs of quietening down. During publicity for his latest project in Cannes earlier this year, the iconoclast director – and Oscar winner several times over – trained his ire on revered figures of both liberal and conservative persuasion, declining to moderate his scathing language even for a dead former Supreme Court justice.
Of course, he has always been anti-establishment. Although what is meant by “establishment” seems to be ever-shifting.

After his first Oscar for the prison drama Midnight Express, early directing glories featured Willem Dafoe starring as a Christ-like figure in the best picture Oscar winner Platoon, for which Stone also won for best director; Tom Cruise as a beleaguered Vietnam vet in Born on the Fourth of July where Stone again won the best director Oscar, and Tommy Lee Jones in Heaven and Earth, the third in Stone’s Vietnam trilogy based on his experiences in Vietnam.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/in...d/news-story/330649fe4edaf9884298519ab52c5852
 
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