JFK: Kennedy Assassination Etc.

Who killed JFK?

  • Lee Harvey Oswald

    Votes: 27 26.7%
  • Mafia

    Votes: 7 6.9%
  • CIA/FBI

    Votes: 36 35.6%
  • Cubans

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • KGB

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • The Illuminati/Masons/Lizards

    Votes: 9 8.9%
  • all of the above

    Votes: 20 19.8%

  • Total voters
    101

Tanglebones

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See my earlier post. When apprehended at the Texas Theatre his revolver held a full 6 live rounds - 5 (some would still argue 4) of which represented reloaded chambers following the Tippit shooting. There were an additional 5 cartridges in his jacket pocket.
Sorry mate. This proves nothing. Apart from the fact that a bloke in Dallas had a revolver and some bullets.

I'll go back to where we started. Why, having just gunned down a police officer would the killer take the time to empty the spent cartridges?
 

maximus otter

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Why, having just gunned down a police officer would the killer take the time to empty the spent cartridges?

To reload a revolver one must remove the spent cartridge cases, then insert fresh cartridges. This only takes seconds.

Having just murdered a police officer in front of witnesses, LHO can be presumed to have formed the logical opinion that he might have to engage in further gunplay with other officers. Reloading his revolver from the assortment of loose rounds in his pocket was a rational, obvious move; he was seen to be doing this by three witnesses.

maximus otter
 
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Floyd1

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Every single time I look at the JFK assassination, I come away with more and more questions, and less and less answers.
And there's now a 'Jesse Price' who saw a man running from the picket fence area, who was ignored by the FBI, he is written about here, under 'Testimony of Eyewitnesses', another witness I hadn't heard of before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

An interesting read, actually. With so much conflicting testimony, how can one really think it was as simple as Oswald firing alone from a window. JMO
I read all of http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/Leaving_the_TSBD.html, but need to re-read it. What was the theory by the author as to why Oswald (patsy) left the TSBD when told to do so by Bill Shelley? I understand why they needed him to leave (to make it appear as if he was running from the police), but what was his reason for doing so?
 

Floyd1

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Every single time I look at the JFK assassination, I come away with more and more questions, and less and less answers.
And there's now a 'Jesse Price' who saw a man running from the picket fence area, who was ignored by the FBI, he is written about here, under 'Testimony of Eyewitnesses', another witness I hadn't heard of before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

An interesting read, actually. With so much conflicting testimony, how can one really think it was as simple as Oswald firing alone from a window. JMO
The problem with this case is that there are just too many players, lots of witnesses weren't called to the Warren Commission and a some that were often admitted (maybe later) that they weren't 100% sure about their statements.
I'll say something though; John Armstrong has done one heck of a lot of research on this! That's dedication.
 

Floyd1

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Maybe this sounds silly, but was it Officer Tippit who stopped in front of Oswald's rooming house and blew his car horn?
And I've read a few times that Tippit was a 'dirty' cop (hard to believe, but who knows), and here is the Daily Mail running an article on Tippit:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-officer-JD-Tippit-JFK-s-REAL-assassin.html
No theory sounds 'silly' in this case!
According to John Armstrong (on the link you sent) Oswald (patsy) was supposed to get on the bus, go to the gas station in Oak Cliff and meet Tippit who would then take him to the theatre. Or that's what Oswald was told to do. But the bus was going to be stopped by a couple of cops who would then kill Oswald. But Oswald had got off the bus early (and was again followed by the blond woman), then got in a taxi and was taken to his rooming house.
There is a lot of stuff to get through on Armstrong's site. See you in a few years!
 

Ronnie Jersey

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The problem with this case is that there are just too many players, lots of witnesses weren't called to the Warren Commission and a some that were often admitted (maybe later) that they weren't 100% sure about their statements.
I'll say something though; John Armstrong has done one heck of a lot of research on this! That's dedication.
That's exactly what I think, too many details, too many people involved, probably many unknown people who were involved, and that Warren Commission - how many people said later that their statements were misprinted. And the Warren Report was made public in September 1964, how complete was that research.
Seems like Jim Garrison knew what he was talking about.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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I read all of http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/Leaving_the_TSBD.html, but need to re-read it. What was the theory by the author as to why Oswald (patsy) left the TSBD when told to do so by Bill Shelley? I understand why they needed him to leave (to make it appear as if he was running from the police), but what was his reason for doing so?
I'm puzzled about that myself, still wading through that page.
I had no idea there was so much info on that William Shelley:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/...bd-was-he-also-at-the-new-orleans-trade-mart/
 
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OrsonSwells

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I find it interesting how Connally's testimony is sort of ignored these days. He said he heard a shot, turned to see that JFK had been hit, and then was shot himself. I think the Zapruder film supports that version of events.
 

Floyd1

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I find it interesting how Connally's testimony is sort of ignored these days. He said he heard a shot, turned to see that JFK had been hit, and then was shot himself. I think the Zapruder film supports that version of events.
Hey OS, I don't know if you had a look at the link Ronnie sent http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/Leaving_the_TSBD.html, (you have to be very interested in this case and you'll need a bit of time), but it's well worth a look if you are/do. John Armstrong has done some seriously good research. It's not concerned with second shooters etc, but that there were two 'Oswalds'. Onethe shooter and one the patsy.

Also, amongst lots of other stuff there is this http://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html
 

Ascalon

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Messages
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Just watched the Stone doc and while I think the case against the CIA is certainly well put, what to me is more perplexing is the evidence handling and witness manipulation. It smacks as much of the CIA and Secret Service desperately arse covering, as much as it does of conspiracy. It sounds like they were so utterly unprepared, divided and confused that they took steps to obfuscate until they had a handle on things but never quite got it. Consequently, they were so far in at that stage, they could not back out.

I'm not convinced that Dulles et al were able to so manipulate the apparatus as to be able to hide their involvement but it does certainly smack of cover up, it's just not clear quite what was being covered up.

Stone has previous in terms of narrow interpretation and selective presentation, but it is certainly a compelling case to say that LHO was not working alone. As to whether there was another shooter, I still think that is not conclusive yet.
 

Floyd1

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Just watched the Stone doc and while I think the case against the CIA is certainly well put, what to me is more perplexing is the evidence handling and witness manipulation. It smacks as much of the CIA and Secret Service desperately arse covering, as much as it does of conspiracy. It sounds like they were so utterly unprepared, divided and confused that they took steps to obfuscate until they had a handle on things but never quite got it. Consequently, they were so far in at that stage, they could not back out.

I'm not convinced that Dulles et al were able to so manipulate the apparatus as to be able to hide their involvement but it does certainly smack of cover up, it's just not clear quite what was being covered up.

Stone has previous in terms of narrow interpretation and selective presentation, but it is certainly a compelling case to say that LHO was not working alone. As to whether there was another shooter, I still think that is not conclusive yet.
After reading the link Ronnie sent by John Armstrong it makes you realise there certainly was a lot of very strange stuff going on that is not often mentioned.
Two cops (possibly Wesbrook & Croy) pull up outside Oswald's rooming house and beep their car horn (seen and heard by Oswald's Landlady) - a guy looking very much like Oswald (but wearing a white shirt) runs out of the TSBD at 12.40pm and gets into a station wagon (seen by many witnesses) and on a photograph,
- a witness sees Oswald (shooter) killing Tippit and then an officer (Westbrook) gesturing to him to run
- a wallet that incriminates Oswald (patsy) that vanishes as quickly as it appears (Westbrook again)
- a guy working for the US army in Panama (Stuart Reed) comes to Dealey plaza, ignores Kennedy's motorcade but photographs the bus that Oswald (patsy) was going to use later that day and is then, by chance,
-at the theatre when Oswald (patsy) is brought out of the front, while Oswald (shooter) is taken out the back and quickly released.......
 

Ronnie Jersey

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Hey OS, I don't know if you had a look at the link Ronnie sent http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/Leaving_the_TSBD.html, (you have to be very interested in this case and you'll need a bit of time), but it's well worth a look if you are/do. John Armstrong has done some seriously good research. It's not concerned with second shooters etc, but that there were two 'Oswalds'. Onethe shooter and one the patsy.

Also, amongst lots of other stuff there is this http://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html
I have been trying to understand that 'two Oswalds' theory - that's a new one to me, I found some of the info very interesting, what do you think of the 'two Oswalds'??
 

Ronnie Jersey

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I find it interesting how Connally's testimony is sort of ignored these days. He said he heard a shot, turned to see that JFK had been hit, and then was shot himself. I think the Zapruder film supports that version of events.
Exactly! And it seems Connally's testimony was NEVER taken seriously, right from the beginning.
 

Floyd1

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I have been trying to understand that 'two Oswalds' theory - that's a new one to me, I found some of the info very interesting, what do you think of the 'two Oswalds'??
The research the guy has done suggests that it is very plausible (imo). I have read the 'leaving the TSBD' thread and the one about Tippit on that link you sent and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I need to re-read the one about the two Oswald's early life though.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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...you realise there certainly was a lot of very strange stuff going on that is not often mentioned.
Absolutely! All those people running in the videos taken right after the shots, and even those standing in front of the Book Depository Building, who they still cannot identify with any certainty.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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As I've said several times, I love Oliver Stone's JFK.

I thought some members might be interested in his latest documentary on the case:

JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass (2021)​

Thirty years after his film JFK, filmmaker Oliver Stone takes viewers on a journey though recently declassified evidence in the assassination of President Kennedy -- the most consequential American murder mystery of the twentieth century. Joined by Whoopi Goldberg and Donald Sutherland, as well as a distinguished team of forensics, medical and ballistics experts, historians, and witnesses, Stone presents compelling evidence that in the Kennedy case 'conspiracy theory' is now 'conspiracy fact.'

Video Here (c. 2hrs):
https://www.documentarymania.com/player.php?title=JFK+Revisited:+Through+the+Looking+Glass
Finally finished that EXCELLENT documentary, so many unbelievable revelations after all these years.
Striking and eye-opening that:
- The women working in the Book Depository walked down the back stairs and never encountered Oswald, the Warren Commission changed their statements
- Witnesses claimed firing came from 'the hill' immediately after the shooting
- Doctors and nurses on the scene claim Kennedy's throat wound was an ENTRY wound
- Discrepancies about that 'magic bullet'
- Autopsy discrepancies
- The 3 'backyard photos' show Oswald's ring on his right hand, then his left (???)
- Witnesses contesting their 'statements'
- The confusion called The Warren Commision Report
- Marina Oswald's doubts
- New info on Oswald's activities

And that's just the beginning. Such a powerful documentary, Thank you for posting this. So much information that I must watch again, too much to absorb.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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When thinking that Oswald was murdered (most likely) to keep him quiet about what he knew, could the same thing be said of Officer Tippit?
Just wondering.........
 

Floyd1

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When thinking that Oswald was murdered (most likely) to keep him quiet about what he knew, could the same thing be said of Officer Tippit?
Just wondering.........
Yes, that's a theory. Tippit knew both 'Oswalds' so he had to go. He was seen waiting at the petrol station, by numerous people, where the bus that Oswald (Patsy) got on would have stopped near to. Others think that Tippit was there to take Oswald to the theatre so that he (Oswald patsy) could be arrested while Oswald (shooter) went out the back. And, photographed by the guy who came all the way from Panama who earlier had been taking pictures of the bus Oswald was going to get on!
 

OrsonSwells

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Has anybody played Wordle today?
It's a word very associated with this thread!
 
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Solexman

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Maybe this sounds silly, but was it Officer Tippit who stopped in front of Oswald's rooming house and blew his car horn?
And I've read a few times that Tippit was a 'dirty' cop (hard to believe, but who knows), and here is the Daily Mail running an article on Tippit:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ce-officer-JD-Tippit-JFK-s-REAL-assassin.html
I’d love to read that article, but on principle I can’t click on a daily mail link.
The principle being that the daily mail doesn’t have any.
 

Floyd1

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Excellent info on Tippit shooting:

Brilliant stuff. Seems to say pretty much the same as John Armstrong, except instead of Oswald (Shooter) being the killer, it was Ruby. (Also, the witnesses who said they saw Oswald on the bus and by the taxi driver aren't considered relevant here- which maybe means this guy doesn't consider the 'Two Oswalds' theory).
 

Floyd1

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1643794280177.png

JFK on the left, Tippit on the right.
 

Ronnie Jersey

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An excellent documentary on Dorothy Kilgallen, the foremost female reporter and columnist until her suspicious death in 1965. She was a personal friend of JFK and called the theory of Oswald acting alone 'absolutely ludicrous'. She attended the trial of Jack Ruby every day, and publicly spoke out about how Ruby, who was the owner of a strip club, could stroll in and out of the Dallas police headquarters, while Oswald was being kept closely guarded. She was investigating JFK's murder and said she 'was going to blow the whole case wide open' when she suddenly was found dead. She was writing columns on 'The Oswald File Must Not Close' and similar others, she was not going for Oswald as the shooter at all. She knew that Jack Ruby was the real key to the assassination:

 
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OrsonSwells

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An excellent documentary on Dorothy Kilgallen, the foremost female reporter and columnist until her suspicious death in 1965. She was a personal friend of JFK and called the theory of Oswald acting alone 'absolutely ludicrous'. She attended the trial of Jack Ruby every day, and publicly spoke out about how Ruby, who was the owner of a strip club, could stroll in and out of the Dallas police headquarters, while Oswald was being kept closely guarded. She was investigating JFK's murder and said she 'was going to blow the whole case wide open' when she suddenly was found dead. She was writing columns on 'The Oswald File Must Not Close' and similar others, she was not going for Oswald as the shooter at all. She knew that Jack Ruby was the real key to the assassination:

She was also famous at the time as a regular panelist on What's My Line?
 
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