JFK: Kennedy Assassination Etc.

Who killed JFK?

  • Lee Harvey Oswald

    Votes: 26 26.0%
  • Mafia

    Votes: 7 7.0%
  • CIA/FBI

    Votes: 36 36.0%
  • Cubans

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • KGB

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • The Illuminati/Masons/Lizards

    Votes: 9 9.0%
  • all of the above

    Votes: 20 20.0%

  • Total voters
    100

Ronnie Jersey

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She was also famous at the time as a regular panelist on What's My Line?
Yes, she was, and known for being quite brilliant. Even her daughter feels she was murdered. And apparently, according to this documentary, her personal papers were confiscated by a government agency immediately after her death.
Very suspicious, what were they afraid of?
The documentary also states (it's very long and windblown) that the first reports were shooting from the overpass.
Also stated is the opinion that Gerald Posner's 'Case Closed' is garbage, along with that commission 'report', LOL. And that the 'Museum' that was the former Book Depository Building, is interested only in pushing the Oswald lone shooter theory, interesting.
 

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I just came across Dr. Charles A. Crenshaw's book "JFK Has Been Shot", anyone interested in the case needs to read this (perhaps you've discussed this book before?).
Page 86: 'No doubt' in this doctor's mind that the head shot 'came from the front'.
This is the doctor at Parkland Hospital in Dallas who tried to save the lives of both JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald.
I am stunned that anyone on the planet actually believes that silly Warren Report.
Dr. Crenshaw also wrote some other books on the case.

1651680600246.png
 

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I'm reading this nice book. It's rather postmodernist and the theories are not very strong but it has several good observations. This is one:

AWFUL ARCHIVES
CONSPIRACY THEORY, RHETORIC, AND ACTS OF EVIDENCE
JENNY RICE
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show...arch=true&from_srp=true&qid=JNCnCYRNzG&rank=1

As an example of this kind of tension, the author points to a television interview that Gore Vidal gave in London sometime after Kennedy’s death. During the interview, Vidal explained the reason why Jacqueline Kennedy would always have a strong resistance to Johnson:

“During that tense journey from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, she inadvertently walked in on him as he was standing over the casket of his predecessor and chuckling. This disclosure was the talk of London but not a word was mentioned here” (“Parts” 18).

Yet, continues the author, this seemingly heartless scene is not the most outlandish detail of that moment. Jacqueline Kennedy later confirmed
Vidal’s story to Manchester and added one very important detail. Quoting Mrs. Kennedy, the author writes:

That man was crouching over the corpse, no longer chuckling but breathing hard and moving his body rhythmically. At first I thought he must be performing some mysterious symbolic rite he’d learned from Mexicans or Indians as a boy. And then I realized—there is only one way to say this—he was literally fucking my husband in the throat. The bullet wound in front of his throat. He reached a climax and dismounted. I froze. The next thing I remember, he was being sworn in as the new President. (“Parts” 18)

This shocking quote is then followed by an editor’s note that shares Manchester’s handwritten marginal note: “1. Check with Rankin—did secret autopsy show semen in throat wound? 2. Is this simply necrophilia or was LBJ trying to change entry wound into exit wound by enlarging?” (“Parts” 18).

And with this disturbing series of images, the outtakes from Manchester’s otherwise well-respected book come to a conclusion. Not surprisingly, the morbid outtakes from Manchester’s book began to circulate with a fiery intensity. ...

... Unsurprisingly, the excerpts were indeed a hoax. Years later, Krassner himself would admit to being the author of the story and the excerpts. This admission might seem to have put to rest any further speculation about either LBJ’s necrophiliac tendencies or any other unseemly actions with JFK’s corpse in the hours following the assassination. Yet, the life of this strange faux-journalism did not end with Krassner’s admission. Decades later, online conspiracy forums feature comments that cite “The Parts That Were Left Out of the Kennedy Book” as a legitimate source.
 

Kingsize Wombat

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I'm reading this nice book. It's rather postmodernist and the theories are not very strong but it has several good observations. This is one:

AWFUL ARCHIVES
CONSPIRACY THEORY, RHETORIC, AND ACTS OF EVIDENCE
JENNY RICE
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show...arch=true&from_srp=true&qid=JNCnCYRNzG&rank=1

As an example of this kind of tension, the author points to a television interview that Gore Vidal gave in London sometime after Kennedy’s death. During the interview, Vidal explained the reason why Jacqueline Kennedy would always have a strong resistance to Johnson:

“During that tense journey from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, she inadvertently walked in on him as he was standing over the casket of his predecessor and chuckling. This disclosure was the talk of London but not a word was mentioned here” (“Parts” 18).

Yet, continues the author, this seemingly heartless scene is not the most outlandish detail of that moment. Jacqueline Kennedy later confirmed
Vidal’s story to Manchester and added one very important detail. Quoting Mrs. Kennedy, the author writes:

That man was crouching over the corpse, no longer chuckling but breathing hard and moving his body rhythmically. At first I thought he must be performing some mysterious symbolic rite he’d learned from Mexicans or Indians as a boy. And then I realized—there is only one way to say this—he was literally fucking my husband in the throat. The bullet wound in front of his throat. He reached a climax and dismounted. I froze. The next thing I remember, he was being sworn in as the new President. (“Parts” 18)

This shocking quote is then followed by an editor’s note that shares Manchester’s handwritten marginal note: “1. Check with Rankin—did secret autopsy show semen in throat wound? 2. Is this simply necrophilia or was LBJ trying to change entry wound into exit wound by enlarging?” (“Parts” 18).

And with this disturbing series of images, the outtakes from Manchester’s otherwise well-respected book come to a conclusion. Not surprisingly, the morbid outtakes from Manchester’s book began to circulate with a fiery intensity. ...

... Unsurprisingly, the excerpts were indeed a hoax. Years later, Krassner himself would admit to being the author of the story and the excerpts. This admission might seem to have put to rest any further speculation about either LBJ’s necrophiliac tendencies or any other unseemly actions with JFK’s corpse in the hours following the assassination. Yet, the life of this strange faux-journalism did not end with Krassner’s admission. Decades later, online conspiracy forums feature comments that cite “The Parts That Were Left Out of the Kennedy Book” as a legitimate source.
Yeah ok, but...I have been interested in the JFK assassination for years and never came across that story until now. The fact that somebody quoted this somewhere on the net doesn't mean anything other than that some people are gullible.
 

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All day today on cable is "JFK Declassified: Oswald", several hours of an in-depth look at every detail of Oswald's life, especially leading up to JFK's assassination. I realize it is from 2017, but I have not seen any of this before, a spectacular analysis.
Former CIA agent Bob Baer launched this investigation into Lee Harvey Oswald.
 

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After watching hours of the "JFK Declassified: Oswald", I am stunned. Much new information was found, witnesses interviewed, ballistics tests done. Their conclusion is that Lee Harvey Oswald did the shooting himself, from the Texas School Book Depository. And their ballistics tests prove that the 'earwitnesses' there that day cannot be trusted.
I have to respect the mountain of research they did, but I'm not sure that I believe them, I would sooner believe the people who were actually present that day and what they saw and heard.
They did say that they believed Oswald was involved with a group who were going to help him get away after the assassination.
Lots of great research and new details, but personally I think there is much more to the story than Oswald.
 

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It's possible that they promised to help him evade capture, but had no intention of doing so right at the outset.
Well you have to watch this show, which goes for several hours -
Oswald had a bus ticket in his pocket after the assassination, and apparently was walking to the bus stop when stopped by Officer Tippit.
Anyway, if Tippit had not been there, Oswald would have caught the 515 bus down a route where several 'safe houses' were located, and which he could have simply jumped off the bus to any one of these houses, and been whisked away.
That is their theory, and they had information about several Cubans who Oswald was involved with, living in these safe houses.
It's a totally different theory which has not been investigated before, and quite possible actually.
However, because the investigator is former CIA, I just wonder about that agenda - after all, the CIA has been suspected of being involved itself.
Just an interesting take on the assassination.
 

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I also wonder why it took 54 years for that information to be 'discovered'.
And if they are going to try and track down that Cuban connection.
Oswald did threaten to 'kill Kennedy' while visiting the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City in September of 1963.
Colin McLaren said it was a Secret Service man, George Hickey, riding in a car behind JFK, who accidentally shot him.
What's next?
 

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The mountain of evidence is on the side of Oswald was the killer. I'm convinced he did it. And yet his "I am just a patsy" statement is still valid and I believe him when he says it. He had someone else's hand up his jacksy. He knew he'd been used. He pulled the trigger but there were organisations behind him that set the whole thing up. Lone nutter maybe, but not alone in carrying out the act.
 
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Floyd1

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The mountain of evidence is on the side of Oswald was the killer. I'm convinced he did it. And yet his "I am just a patsy" statement is still valid and I believe him when he says it. He had someone else's hand up his jacksy. He knew he'd been used. He pulled the trigger but there were organisations behind him that set the whole thing up. Lone nutter maybe, but not alone in carrying out the act.
If you have time, this article that @Ronnie Jersey posted is a very interesting read;
http://harveyandlee.net/Leaving/Leaving_the_TSBD.html,
 

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If Oswald was the shooter - why didn't he shoot JFK as the limousine was coming towards the Texas School Book Depository,
it would have been a frontal head shot, and one shot might have done it.
Still a mystery.
 

EnolaGaia

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If Oswald was the shooter - why didn't he shoot JFK as the limousine was coming towards the Texas School Book Depository,
it would have been a frontal head shot, and one shot might have done it.
Still a mystery.

I don't know whether Oswald put much thought into it, but if he did he chose well.

Oswald could remain relatively hidden in the interior corner only if he aimed down Elm Street (as he did). He'd have been more visible if he'd aimed for Houston Street, and he'd have to change positions (cross from one side of the window to the other) to continue tracking the limo after it turned onto and followed Elm Street.

The limo traveled only a short block on Houston Street. From Oswald's TSD perch the limo would have suddenly appeared at the intersection of Main and Houston before turning onto Houston. He could only respond and start tracking the limo once it came into sight, and it wouldn't be on Houston for very long. The two turns onto and off Houston Street would involve lateral movements and limo speed changes that could affect his ability to aim. There was almost no chance of being able to get off more than a single shot under risky conditions. If that single shot missed, the limo could have quickly moved out of sight by simply continuing on Houston.

Waiting until the limo was on Elm Street put the target as close as it was going to be, allowed Oswald to cover in the corner, and gave him a longer / straighter line of sight on the target as it progressed away from him on Elm. This last factor provided more time to get off multiple shots.
 

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I don't know whether Oswald put much thought into it, but if he did he chose well.

Oswald could remain relatively hidden in the interior corner only if he aimed down Elm Street (as he did). He'd have been more visible if he'd aimed for Houston Street, and he'd have to change positions (cross from one side of the window to the other) to continue tracking the limo after it turned onto and followed Elm Street.

The limo traveled only a short block on Houston Street. From Oswald's TSD perch the limo would have suddenly appeared at the intersection of Main and Houston before turning onto Houston. He could only respond and start tracking the limo once it came into sight, and it wouldn't be on Houston for very long. The two turns onto and off Houston Street would involve lateral movements and limo speed changes that could affect his ability to aim. There was almost no chance of being able to get off more than a single shot under risky conditions. If that single shot missed, the limo could have quickly moved out of sight by simply continuing on Houston.

Waiting until the limo was on Elm Street put the target as close as it was going to be, allowed Oswald to cover in the corner, and gave him a longer / straighter line of sight on the target as it progressed away from him on Elm. This last factor provided more time to get off multiple shots.
The limo did have to slow down though, to make that hard left onto Elm Street, I still wonder if that 'triangle of crossfire' theory isn't more valid, with that slow down making an aim much easier. And some witnesses wondered why the limo driver almost came to a stop on Elm, with the sound of gunfire.
Bothers me too that Jackie was only a couple of inches away from JFK, and in fact right next to him as he leaned over her and the fatal head shot took place.
Seems more like the work of a professional assassin.
In April of 1963, Oswald took a shot at Edwin Walker at his home, and missed his head by one inch. And in the 'JFK Declassified: Tracking Oswald' series, it was brought out that Oswald had no vehicle or driver's license, someone had driven him to Walker's home and back.
Bill Newman, who was in Dealey Plaza that day with his wife and 2 boys, was standing in the area of Abraham Zapruder, in front on the curb, and they all dropped to the ground because of the shooting.
Mr. Newman still says he heard shooting coming 'from behind' them.
Still a mystery.
 

maximus otter

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And some witnesses wondered why the limo driver almost came to a stop on Elm, with the sound of gunfire.

Bill Newman, who was in Dealey Plaza that day with his wife and 2 boys, was standing in the area of Abraham Zapruder, in front on the curb, and they all dropped to the ground because of the shooting.
Mr. Newman still says he heard shooting coming 'from behind' them.
Still a mystery.

l mentioned upthread that the sound of shots being fired echoes wildly between buildings in a built-up area. This is well known to military snipers, who use it to conceal their firing points.

Consider panic, the echoing sound of the shot, the crack of the bullet passing an observer, the sound of ricochets and fragments impacting, and the inability of witnesses to agree on where shot/s came from is readily explicable.

maximus otter
 

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This is a still frame from a Dave Wegman film, allegedly showing smoke over the grassy knoll, with Kennedy's limousine (circled) taking off right after the assassination.

1656183419133.png


And S. M. Holland was a railroad worker, who was standing on the overpass at the time, and heard a shot coming from the grassy knoll area. Not only that, but he saw the smoke come up, pictured here.
Hard to explain all this as just 3 shots coming from the Texas School Book Depository.
 
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Floyd1

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If Oswald was the shooter - why didn't he shoot JFK as the limousine was coming towards the Texas School Book Depository,
it would have been a frontal head shot, and one shot might have done it.
Still a mystery.
There is a theory that he did shoot earlier but the traffic light pole got in the way.
 

maximus otter

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This is a still frame from a Dave Wegman film, allegedly showing smoke over the grassy knoll, with Kennedy's limousine (circled) taking off right after the assassination.

View attachment 56508

And S. M. Holland was a railroad worker, who was standing on the overpass at the time, and heard a shot coming from the grassy knoll area. Not only that, but he saw the smoke come up, pictured here.
Hard to explain all this as just 3 shots coming from the Texas School Book Depository.

Here is a Mannlicher Carcano, of the type used in the assassination, being tested in 1967:


Note how little muzzle smoke is created, and how quickly it disperses.

l’m dubious that the smoke from one shot would have lasted long enough to look that dense after JFK’s car had driven as far as it has gone in the photo.

maximus otter
 
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Floyd1

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The events in Dealey Plaza are only a small part of what happened that day. It's all the other things that went on away from there;

The police car beeping outside Oswald's rooming house.
Timings of police recordings altered to put Oswald where he couldn't possibly have been.
Stuart Reed, who had come all the way from Panama to take photos of the bus that Oswald should have been on and the TSBD with the snipers window in full view before then being in the right place and the right time and photographing Oswald as he was being brought out of the Texas theatre by the police.
Descriptions of two 'Oswald's' wearing different clothing......
 

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Here is a Mannlicher Carcano, of the type used in the assassination, being tested in 1967:


Note how little muzzle smoke is created, and how quickly it disperses.

l’m dubious that the smoke from one shot would have lasted long enough to look that dense after JFK’s car had driven as far as it has gone in the photo.

maximus otter
I'm thinking that the smoke may have been from a small group of people who were all puffing away on pipes and cigarettes, as was common back then.
 

Coal

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Here is a Mannlicher Carcano, of the type used in the assassination, being tested in 1967:


Note how little muzzle smoke is created, and how quickly it disperses.

l’m dubious that the smoke from one shot would have lasted long enough to look that dense after JFK’s car had driven as far as it has gone in the photo.

maximus otter
That bolt action looks a tad awkward for some reason.
 

maximus otter

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That bolt action looks a tad awkward for some reason.

As late as the Sixties, many American hunters used lever-action rifles like this Winchester 92:

Winchester-Lever-Action-Model-1892-Rifle-Carbine-CR-Antique-016.jpg


- so using a bolt action might not have been as familiar to them.

Also, military rifles like the Carcano were designed more for ease of production and robustness than smoothness of operation.

maximus otter
 

OrsonSwells

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l mentioned upthread that the sound of shots being fired echoes wildly between buildings in a built-up area. This is well known to military snipers, who use it to conceal their firing points.

Consider panic, the echoing sound of the shot, the crack of the bullet passing an observer, the sound of ricochets and fragments impacting, and the inability of witnesses to agree on where shot/s came from is readily explicable.

maximus otter
I have absolutely no doubt this is the case. But I'm interested in the fact that Connally's take on events - he heard the first shot that hit JFK, turned, was shot himself, then heard the final shot - is overlooked these days. What is the explanation debunking his first-hand testimony?
 

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It is easy to dismiss S. M. Holland's testimony. However, he stood on the overpass right in front of the grassy knoll, and heard 4 shots:

Mr. HOLLAND - It could have been the third or fourth, but there were definitely four reports.
Mr. STERN - You have no doubt about that?
Mr. HOLLAND - I have no doubt about it. I have no doubt about seeing that puff of smoke come out from under those trees either.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/r...ERN -,nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 

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I have absolutely no doubt this is the case. But I'm interested in the fact that Connally's take on events - he heard the first shot that hit JFK, turned, was shot himself, then heard the final shot - is overlooked these days. What is the explanation debunking his first-hand testimony?
And that is another thing that bothers me about the assassination -
John Connally specifically stated this, that the first shot did not hit him, and the Zapruder film shows this.
This fact is always ignored.

Connally Recalls a Separate Hit

Governor Connally recalled being hit after he turned right and then left again:

... we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the comer of my eye, and I was interested because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately—the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now, facing, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
... Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him ... (IV, H-132-133)
... after I heard that shot, I had the time to turn to my right, and to start to my left before I felt anything.
It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first bullet ...[3]
Mrs. Connally stated that she had the time to turn, after a shot had been fired, but previous to the moment when her husband was hit:

... I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.
... Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John.
 

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... l’m dubious that the smoke from one shot would have lasted long enough to look that dense after JFK’s car had driven as far as it has gone in the photo. ...

Agreed ... There's no way any relatively modern rifle (as of 1963) would generate that much smoke in firing a few rounds in quick succession.

As late as the Sixties, many American hunters used lever-action rifles like this Winchester 92 ... so using a bolt action might not have been as familiar to them.

Don't be fooled by all the Westerns ... From the late 19th century onward bolt-action rifles were the standard for military and precision / competition shooting in the USA. With a few rare exceptions no lever action rifles were chambered for the cartridges used in hunting at a distance.
 

maximus otter

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Don't be fooled by all the Westerns ... From the late 19th century onward bolt-action rifles were the standard for military and precision / competition shooting in the USA. With a few rare exceptions no lever action rifles were chambered for the cartridges used in hunting at a distance.

Accepted. However, America’s “conversion” from lever to bolt in sporting rifles only really began in 1918, when lots of Doughboys returned home bearing captured German Mauser rifles, then thought, “You know what? I could rebarrel this to .30-06...”

maximus otter
 
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