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Jill Dando's Murder: Barry George Accused, Convicted & Acquitted

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There was an excellent C4 docu about the massive gaps in the police's case against Barry George, the supposed murderer of Jill Dando (Brit TV personality, for our foreign friends)
For those that missed it, the case for his innocence rested on a few main points.
1. Because of his severe epilsely, George is, essentially, educationally sub-normal. A nueoropsychologist described how anyone with his condition would have extreme difficulty in carrying out even the simplest plan or instruction. Yet we are meant to believe that not only did this man deactive a handgun (an engineering feat that would take months of training) but executed a hitman-style murder, and then manage to evade capture for months.
2. Indentification. The police's case rested on one woman's id of George at the site of the crime. The woman admitted she only saw the suspect's face for five seconds, and received feedback after her ID parade from the police that she had 'got the right guy', and this was months before the trial. No wonder she was so sure of her brief glimsp.
Also all eye witnesses described the suspect of having shoulder length hair. George was notorious in his community for having short cropped hair, and two of his regular hairdressers, confirmed this on film.
3. Motive. George was certainly obsessed with Freddy Mercury but nobody who knew him ever heard him mention Jill Dando. The newspapers that the police found, were only after her death. And it is perfectly natural that a man who lives a half a mile away from the scene of a famous crime, would show some interest.
4. Forensics. No forensic scientist is willing to admit that there is no possibility of the speck of bullet casing found on George's coat could not have got there by contamination, due to improper foresnics pratices before the trial.
So classic Met fit-up of a disturbed loser, in order to crack a high-profile case. Makes you wonder what is going on in Soham
 
I saw the last three quarters of the programme too, it was very well made.

I was astounded at the apparent evidence for 'reasonable doubt' shown time and time again.

What amazed me the most is the constant interference of the Judge in directing the jury to consider disperate peices of evidence that once assembled showed a whole and quite damning but not necessarily true picture of the murder.

It does indeed make one wonder.
 
Journalists who attended the original trial were shocked at the
verdict, believing that the evidence against George was very thin.

The failed appeal did not seem to attract so much comment so I
was glad to see the documentary. It made me wonder if George's
defence team were asleep on the job. Meanwhile it looks likely
that the real killer has escaped justice.
 
Highly unlikely a guilty verdict would be the result if the victim was an"ordinary"one.Definitely not proven beyond reasonable doubt:very strange.
 
All the strand of fibre showed is that somebody with similar trousers to George, passed Jill Dando's house around the time of her death. Seeing that we are talking about North London, many thousands of people would have passed her house over the course of a day.
As for the magazines, yes he did have an interest in guns, but this was classic 13 year old I love the SAS teenage behaviour, not proof that somebody, especially someone with George's problems, could carry out such a complex ballastic proceedure.
He did have many copies of Arial, the Beeb's in-house publications, but he used to work for the BBC as a messenger, which is when he first read the magazine, and picked up copies, which are available free to anyone, ever since. Maybe he read them because they reminded him of a happier time when he had a job?
And of course the Beeb's in-house magazine would mention Dando, along with hundreds of other BBC staff members.
As for the five eye witnesses, only one claimed to be a 100% sure (the woman I mentioned), which the prosecution admitted during the trial. At the original ID parade, the only one at which George was present (after that the police used a video fit) not one single witness identified George.
 
Also, Edward, where are you getting this stuff about the judge showing bias against the defendant?

After only 1 of 5 (yes that's 5) supposedly eye witnesses identified George as the man they had seen on the road at the time of the murder, the other 4 were either not sure or could only be sure of clothing or height, the judge directed the jury to take as irrefutable the testimony of the 5 as a whole.

4 of the winesses claim that 'George' had shoulder or collar length dark wavey hair. His hair has been cut by the same men for 5 years ALWAY in the style of his idol Freddy Mercury i.e. as the hair dresser said 'number 2 at the sides and number 5 on top'.

Just two examples. There are more.
 
If you are talking North London, I reckon you would get many thousands of obessive loners with criminal records in one half - mile radius. And the speck of gunpowder is misleading, it could have come from anywhere, much like how the Birmingham Six picked up a chemical residue found in Semtex by touching playing cards. And the police admit that the coat was open to contamination.
I am a big fan of Occam's Razor, which is why the explanation that a man with brain damage was able to carry out a proceedure on both a gun and on a shell casing, a proceedure normally only known by professional criminals or gunsmiths, doesn't ring true.
Plus have a look at the hits carried out by the Yugoslavian Secret Service against foreign based dissidents during the Cold War. The M.O. is exactly the same as Dando.
 
and had a speck of gunpowder residue on their clothing?

The part of the documentary that dealt with the gunpowder spek was also VERY interesting. Quite simply the coat from which the spek was taken was sealed in a airtight bag after being removed from Georges home for forensic testing, nothing unusual so far.

BEFORE it was examined in a sterile forensic lab it was removed from the bag at a photographic studio where guns, bullets and other evidence was previously photographed exposing the coat to "hundreds of potential sources of contamination".

The judge also allowed this as credible evidence after much protest from the defence.

I too was under the impression that the guy had, in all likelyhood, committed the murder but after seeing the documentary how anybody could be 'sure' that he did it is beyond belief.
 
I believe the barber. He came across as an extremely credible witness to me; he knew exactly what haircut the guy always had.

Anyway, I did not believe the police had the right guy at the time and I don't now. Where's the gun?
 
Drat I missed that Docu and it sounds really good.

Anyone know if it will be repeated in the near future.

5mins l8er.....

Actually thanks to Digiguide I answered my own question.

If you missed it it is on in the early hours of the 22nd details to follow
DOCUMENTARY: Did Barry George Kill Jill Dando?
Channel: Channel 4
Date: Thursday 22nd August 2002
Time: 04:05 to 05:05 Duration: 1 hour.
An edition of 'Cutting Edge' examining the Court of Appeal's ruling that Barry George was rightfully convicted of murdering Jill Dando on compelling evidence. The Court found that many parts of a complex case were too much to be coincidence. But do the parts add up to a compelling whole? Could the unthinkable yet be true - that the mystery of Jill Dando's murder has still not been solved?

I think I will set my VCR for that one
 
I agree the docu was very well put together. Sadly, it felt like watching a repeat, as I'm pretty sure the guy is innocent. It wouldn't be the first time the police fitted up the nearest person to hand matching their criminal profile. The shocker is the weakness of the forensic evidence and witness testimony against George, not to mention the lack of a murder weapon and the fact that the woman from the disabled advice centre was with George at the time of the murder.
 
I thought at the time of the original trial that the evidence against George was very thin, and last night's documentary confirmed this.

So I don't think he's guilty. However, he is/was a nasty piece of work, a gun-obsessed fantasist who's been convicted of attempted rape, so I'm not entirely distressed that he's been taken off the streets.

But convincing evidence there is not. And of course it means that the guilty person is still free. My sister seriously thinks its the fiance.

Not sure about the Serbian motive though - what good would killing a TV presenter do them?
 
A skilled director/pruducer can make a convincing TV documentary from pretty much any point of view. That said, I never thought "he done it" in a million years. I'm sure in years to come he'll be released and they'll be an enquiry to make sure "this never happens again" :rolleyes: just like the last time.
The thing about the Serbs having done it though; many people thought that couldn't be the case because they didn't claim responsibility for it. We're used to the IRA's modus operandi here. The Serbs don't work like that. They don't claim responsibility for stuff, they just do it.
 
I obviously meant producer. Do you have a serious point to make? Or are you just here to criticise my typing?
 
It's rather poor netiquette to point out others mistakes especially if it is as minor as a spelling mistake. It adds nothing to the debate and can wind people up, which obviously you don't want to do.

Guidelines
 
Nope cant smell a thing.

My Ignore List is hermetically sealed and cast into deep space.
 
Can somebody outline the Serbian theory for me?
 
The Serbian Theory:
Jill Dando was targeted by a Serbian assassination squad in retaliation for the NATO bombing of a state-owend TV Station, which was basically owned by Slobba's family.
The theory is Dando was chosen, as the BBC used her to launch a high profile TV appeal for the care of Kosovan refugees.
There is also the fact that the shell casing was altered, in order to make the bullet more deadly, as has been seen in other assassinations carried out by Yugoslavian or Serbian spooks/thugs.
Its just a theory though. Hard evidence is lacking, and as long as Barry George is in prison, it will probably remain that way.
 
All I can add to the debate is what I heard directly from someone who gave a statement to the police about Barry George with regard to his Freddy Mercury obsession - the person in question was not called as a witness.

He said that the detectives he spoke to, and knew fairly well through his work were not at all happy with the evidence that they had as it was all circumstantial. Neither were they happy with the forensic evidence, but their job is to hand the file to the CPS and let them decide whether or not to prosecute.

The detectives in question were seriosuly following a line of enquiry about some russian or serbian mafiosa type man who was completley obsessed with Dando - they came into contact while she was filing the holiday program, and he fell for her in a big way, but she didn't want to know.

Apparently he persisted, and sent loads of flowers, cards and telephone calls etc.

The theory they were following up was that this guy put out a contract on her.


It seems to me that if Barry George did kill Dando, then he was the sort of guy that would have returned to the scene and been hanging about - all the reports on the day were of a 'professional' killing - whilst George did understand guns, it seems unlikely that he could carry out a 'hit' of this quality.

Just my 2 €uros worth !

Paul
 
chatsubo said:
All the strand of fibre showed is that somebody with similar trousers to George, passed Jill Dando's house around the time of her death. Seeing that we are talking about North London, many thousands of people would have passed her house over the course of a day.

Not being Pedantic Chatz, but Gowan Avenue is a Quiet street in Fulham, West london, Connecting Fulham Palace road & Munster Road. Both of which are Very Busy.

It would have been mainly shoppers & grannies at that time of day.

BTW My Moneys on the serbs. Specially after watching 24 ;)
 
BigPaul said:
The detectives in question were seriosuly following a line of enquiry about some russian or serbian mafiosa type man who was completley obsessed with Dando - they came into contact while she was filing the holiday program, and he fell for her in a big way, but she didn't want to know.


Paul

I remember reading that, but had forgotton all about it. Any links/names BP?
 
It has struck previously me that the evidence is a tad tenuous. Of course George may have been a danger to the public anyway, but that doesn't justify the press venom he inspired.

It's one of the great sadnesses of our times that mental illness is so badly treated, reported, understood. The care in the community idea has been an overwhelming failure, sectioning is no replacement for medical supervision and family monitoring, etc. As te Soham case has shown, mental illness needs to be treated early on, with the support of familt and friends, so as to prevent these unfortunate cases.

Not being religious I don't believe that people are born evil, but do anti-social or inhumane things as a reaction to society, brain chemistry, personal relationships and the environment.

And the good ol' daily mail and ann widdershins are beating their chests calling for the death penalty - thank god we live in enlightened times. :(
 
chatsubo said:
I remember reading that, but had forgotton all about it. Any links/names BP?

Sorry - I can't give any specifics because I don't know them !

I can tell you that the person I spoke to works in the music industry in London, and was locking up the building one evening when Barry George approached him - his jacket was covered in button badges, and introduced himself as Freddy Mercury's cousin (or brother - I can't remember which) - he asked if the company my associate works for had any Mercury memrobelia or photos he could have.

My associate told him that he should try Mercury's record company, as they would have that sort of thing.

My associate told me that a number of people in his organisation had seen him hanging around the building, and that he had approached a number of members of staff.


It seems to me that if Barry George was as fixated on Dando as he was with Mercury, then there would have been loads of people at the BBC who would recognise him, and been approached for photos etc in the same way that those associated with Mercury knew who Barry George was.

It simply doesn't add up to me - it sounds like the Met Police handed over a file to the CPS, and the CPS decided to run with it regardless of how tenous the evidence was.

What I do know, as I work within the forensics field is that the Police have no real say on who gets prosecuted and who doesn't. Quite often, much of the evidence is not used in court, and what goes on in court is very rarely reported correctly in the media.

In general, the court process is little more than a game between the relevent legal teams, and has little to do with justice.

Paul
 
Also in cases of fixation the urge is towards one person, not several (AFAIK). To be obsessed with FM would also suggest supressed homesexuality. To back this up it wuld seem odd that someone apparently into militarism/survivalism to be into a well known, flamboyant gay rockstar unless at some level they assosciated with his sexuality or at least personality. Again it seems the mentally ill have been scapegoated, or at least given an unfair trial. How can someone of a low IQ who suffers from fits and memory loss be able to convince police of their innocence?

All in all a very dodgy case.
 
good link 4mix.
Of course there are also the several hundred criminals that Crimewatch helped put away (though personally, I would go after Nick (don't have nightmares) Ross)
 
Thankyou chatsubo for your summary back there!

Am I being daft, but if you're going to murder a 'celebrity' for a reason you consider internationally important, wouldn't you at least announce your reason? That's why I wonder about the Serb theory..

You're right that she helped put away lots of criminals through crimewatch uk! but you'd have to be a sandwich short of a picnic if you thought she was actually most responsible for your arrest and sentencing.

Aren't most people murdered by people they know - people in their own family?? Also, according to that article in the Guardian, she rarely returned to her flat as she was selling it, and spent most of her time at her fiance's. Seems slightly strange that they'd pick there to kill her?
 
If so many witnesses swear the man had shoulder length hair, why wasn't Barry Gibb brought in for questioning? Seriously, though, what does being a Freddie Mercury fan have to do with anything? When I was 16, I wanted to grow up to be Eddie Van Halen, but I've never murdered anyone.
 
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