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Jo Cox Attack: False Flag?

You would assume at some point one of these major Illuminati / New World Order types would slip up.

MPs can't even claim a few Mars bars and a second home on expenses without getting rumbled yet we constantly discuss how they could be planting newspaper articles and photoshopped pictures of patsies without anyone catching them out.

LOl, snap :)
 
My general scepticism about conspiracy theories revolves around the fact that bad things happen all the time, mostly randomly. I think it gives people a sense of security to believe that some vast hive mind or cabal is behind the scenes, given the alternative is to accept that incidents, disasters, people happen which we have no control over.

The same may hold for conspiracy theories as you say - a hidden elite of power-crazed psychopaths is perhaps less alarming than the idea of an unjust universe where human suffering is ultimately irrelevant.

Perhaps, are you sure ? ^^ The 'alternative' is precisely what human beings have accepted and been comfortable with for millenia. The idea that an elite of psychopaths would give a greater sense of 'security' is the most far-fetched. People are usually terrified of such a perspective, and will remove any suggestion of it from their mind. Add to that their feeling of bonding with those elites due to nationalist opinions, their uneasiness with the thought of having a responsability in the setting up of such a government (it was elected by them after all...), that their institutions they're usually so proud of might be flawed after all, to have allowed such a frightening situation. A world made of coincidences, random events and mere incompetence really appears more reassuring and comfortable to live with to most. And it is truer in our developed countries, where people assume more easily their government to be benevolent, and blinds them more to the evidence of government wrongdoings.

You would assume at some point one of these major Illuminati / New World Order types would slip up.

Yes, everybody knows that members of organized crime issue confessions on a regular basis, newspapers are full of them !

That being said, I don't believe in a manipulation in this instance. Not that it would be unthinkable, it would not be a matter of conscience for people who have the blood of millions of Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Ukrainians etc..., on their hands, and the timing appears to be a bit too convenient (and it was predictable that the momentum would be in favor of the Brexit). But from what we know of the case, as was quickly reported, there is no evidence that could support a false flag or a mental control(unless our scientific knowledge is deeply wrong).
 
The idea that an elite of psychopaths would give a greater sense of 'security' is the most far-fetched.
Aye. Clinically, a bunch of psychopaths operating as a team is unlikely to say the least. This team would I suspect rapidly get involved in a game of 'musical stilettos' with the team being whittled to 'one' in short order.

Sociopaths now...you can have teams of those.
 
Aye. Clinically, a bunch of psychopaths operating as a team is unlikely to say the least. This team would I suspect rapidly get involved in a game of 'musical stilettos' with the team being whittled to 'one' in short order.

Sociopaths now...you can have teams of those.
There are plenty of sociopaths in politics. Allegedly.
 
Is the term sociopath used outside of TV-shows? Anyways, Fluttermoth are you aware of things like Walnut Grove or the Bilderberg meetings? Good opportunities for the Illuminati.
 
I just read that paper, I am not impressed. So a fancier way of saying "acts like an asshole".
 
Perhaps, are you sure ? ^^ The 'alternative' is precisely what human beings have accepted and been comfortable with for millenia. The idea that an elite of psychopaths would give a greater sense of 'security' is the most far-fetched. People are usually terrified of such a perspective, and will remove any suggestion of it from their mind. Add to that their feeling of bonding with those elites due to nationalist opinions, their uneasiness with the thought of having a responsability in the setting up of such a government (it was elected by them after all...), that their institutions they're usually so proud of might be flawed after all, to have allowed such a frightening situation. A world made of coincidences, random events and mere incompetence really appears more reassuring and comfortable to live with to most. And it is truer in our developed countries, where people assume more easily their government to be benevolent, and blinds them more to the evidence of government wrongdoings

Not sure at all, hence 'perhaps'... I probably should have qualified that by adding 'for some people'. All I can say is (from reading stuff on the internet!) that there are those who are convinced the mass of humankind is menaced by shadowy ultra-powerful enemies existing in the rarified regions above mere politics, but seem to find this a less disturbing prospect than that of a Godless, meaningless Universe.
 
I just read that paper, I am not impressed. So a fancier way of saying "acts like an asshole".
I don't think there are any observable neural correlates for being an 'arsehole', however, the brain might be sufficiently obscured by the anus to stop an MRI working.
 
Hmm, yes I wondered if anyone was going to bring up the Anna Lindh case. Similar politician, similar reaction and it did seem to have an impact on the polls - although Sweden rejected joining the Euro in the end the margin narrowed substantially following the murder.

I'm just being pedantic here but they were not the same sort of politician at all. Anna Lindh was the Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs and was an internationally recognised politician. She was next in line as Party leader having previously been the Environment Minister and the Foreign Affiars minister. Jo Cox was not in the same political circles. This doesn't lessen the sadness or importance of the event, however. Both were married with two young children.

When Lindh was killed in 2003, the man who went to prison was deemed mentally fit (after 3 separate tests/interviews) but had been treated for mental helath problems in the past.

The reaction here was one of total and collective shock. The country ground to a halt and the flowers piled up like Princess Diana's funeral. There was an incredible amount of pressure on the police to solve this case (especially after they had failed with Olof Palme). There was no reason given for the attack on Lindh and the EU vote happened before they caught someone (be it the right person or not...don't get me started:().
 
I'm still seeing the false flag theory crop up occasionally in referendum chatter on social media. Hard to tell if people actually believe it or if they're just trolling for a reaction.
 
Perhaps, are you sure ? ^^ The 'alternative' is precisely what human beings have accepted and been comfortable with for millenia. The idea that an elite of psychopaths would give a greater sense of 'security' is the most far-fetched. People are usually terrified of such a perspective, and will remove any suggestion of it from their mind. Add to that their feeling of bonding with those elites due to nationalist opinions, their uneasiness with the thought of having a responsability in the setting up of such a government (it was elected by them after all...), that their institutions they're usually so proud of might be flawed after all, to have allowed such a frightening situation. A world made of coincidences, random events and mere incompetence really appears more reassuring and comfortable to live with to most. And it is truer in our developed countries, where people assume more easily their government to be benevolent, and blinds them more to the evidence of government wrongdoings....

I, for one, do feel at ease with the idea of the sheer randomness of existence, but I also surmise that many people (and CT believers in particular) maybe subconciously do not. I don't think it's a concious or logically thought out reaction - but it helps them 'make sense' of evil, natural disasters, mass murder, tragedy and the like. The alternative is to accept that sometimes things don't make sense and there are no guarantees to anything.

I also feel for some (eg the David Icke forum devotees) it's a replacement belief system, akin to fervent fandom or an unshakeable 'belief' in (for example) UFOs & ETs. That leads to a tangent off of the whole CT industry - that people use or adopt many and varied practices or beliefs to fill what could be our hard-wired space for a 'God'.
 
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I was using the distinction made in "Psychopathy versus sociopathy: Why the distinction has become crucial", (Pemment 2013)

This is a matter of words, and in fact the word sociopath encompasses here many meanings traditionally ascribed to the word psychopath. Most psychopaths differing greatly from serial killers... Other variations including narcissistic perverts or pathological manipulators, who are common in the political and corporate worlds (I had mentioned organized crime, indeed a good example of a working society of sociopaths/psychopaths – international politics appear indeed as organized crime at the highest level).

Not sure at all, hence 'perhaps'... I probably should have qualified that by adding 'for some people'. All I can say is (from reading stuff on the internet!) that there are those who are convinced the mass of humankind is menaced by shadowy ultra-powerful enemies existing in the rarified regions above mere politics, but seem to find this a less disturbing prospect than that of a Godless, meaningless Universe.

Religion is the ultimate conspiracy theory... But what believers seek is relief ; religious people are often paranoiac, and prone to believe in demonic intervention and the coming of the End Times, however in the end they (almost) all expect that a reassuring and benevolent force rules over the universe (otherwise, there is no reason to believe in a non-Godless meaningful universe...).

A few people appear to like being frightened just for the sake of it, but they are a small minority. Look at how horror films fare poorly at the box-office (or 'incorrect' films, that have the bad taste to not include a happy end).

I, for one, do feel at ease with the idea of the sheer randomness of existence, but I also surmise that many people (and CT believers in particular) maybe subconciously do not. I don't think it's a concious or logically thought out reaction - but it helps them 'make sense' of evil, natural disasters, mass murder, tragedy and the like. The alternative is to accept that sometimes things don't make sense and there are no guarantees to anything.

I also feel for some (eg the David Icke forum devotees) it's a replacement belief system, akin to fervent fandom or an unshakeable 'belief' in (for example) UFOs & ETs. That leads to a tangent off of the whole CT industry - that people use or adopt many and varied practices or beliefs to fill what could be our hard-wired space for a 'God'.

Basically the same arguments and the same answer, I'll add that I agree with you that many (including 'conspiracists' and ET cultists) feel the need for substitute para-religions. And yes, it affects many non-religious people who tend to fulfill their hardwired need for belief by finding an alternative to traditional religion in civil/governmental institutions, and for this reason are often more credulous of governmental claims, despite the vast body of counter-examples
- and try to find rationalizations to the growing success of 'conspiracy theories' such as an obscure desire to be frightened (instead of the more rational statement that more and more people come to the realization that conspiracies are a common practice at the highest level - and that top-level politicians are indeed arseholes)
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I didn't realise the Jo Cox was Kinnock's niece. I'm sure she was a perfectly able politician, and actually I dislike the dislike of nepotism - seems to me only natural to bring on your relations in the family business if they are any good. But its been curious, if that is true, that it hasn't been mentioned more.

This conversation seems to have swerved into 'why are there conspiracy theories' - well, obviously, because there are conspiracies. Not nearly as many or perhaps as organised as the theorists would have us believe, but they certainly exist.
 
Yeah, I think it's pretty much a done deal. The evidence is there.
It is strange, though. He has a racially-mixed relative and tried his hand at teaching English to Asians. That doesn't sound like a white supremacist.


Out of interest, a few years ago research found that a statistically significant amount of young males involved with the extreme right in England, had previously had relationships with women of colour. Let alone having individual friends from minority communities. Additionally research in the 1980s in Europe found that those convicted of terrorism didn't display any mental health issues, although it was marginally higher in those on the right.
 
I didn't realise the Jo Cox was Kinnock's niece. I'm sure she was a perfectly able politician, and actually I dislike the dislike of nepotism - seems to me only natural to bring on your relations in the family business if they are any good. But its been curious, if that is true, that it hasn't been mentioned more.

This conversation seems to have swerved into 'why are there conspiracy theories' - well, obviously, because there are conspiracies. Not nearly as many or perhaps as organised as the theorists would have us believe, but they certainly exist.

Of course, she wasn't his niece. Kinnock actually stated that he and Glynis had known her so long, since she was a researcher, that they regarded her as 'like' a beloved niece.
 
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