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Jo Cox Attack: False Flag?

Ermintrude said:
Even if Cameron did previously make a pig of himself (by being a premier in, whilst porking the pork....et cetera) what do we take now from his style and substance at the memorial service?

And....(I'm sorry, this must be said).....is Jo Cox not the most-famous omnipresent flawless politician that I'd never heard of?

Please tell me you genuinely know all about her, and have followed her career forever (I've lost the reference I had to this, but I believe she only became an MP last year....and (I'm sure I read) like a number of Labour politicians, had 'worked for Barack Obama and the US Democratic Party'. Seriously? Someone, please substantiate this.
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I can state confidently that I'd never heard of her until last Thursday. That's not particularly surprising - she was an opposition backbencher who as you say was only elected last year.

A friend was told he was at the same table as her at a wedding a few years ago but he doesn't remember her at all.
 
I follow politics closely - closer that 99% of the British population. Prior to her death I knew her name and that she was a newish Labour MP who had worked for Oxfam -- that's about it.

I feel dreadfully sorry for her and her family, but it looks as if she's about to become the next Mary Seacole.
 
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ramonmercado said:
What did those swine do to deserve that?
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I think it is actually quite complex. The demons plead with Jesus not to be sent back to the Abyss so he sent them to the pigs instead. The pigs then, presumably under the control of the demons, drowned themselves. No doubt that is supposed to tell us something.

I have to admit I'd never heard of Jo Cox until last week. But, whatever her previous history, an attack on an elected MP is an attack on the whole country and a ridiculous thing for someone shouting 'Britain first' to do.
 
The mental health thing is interesting. I've seen online people - the side fearing the political aspect of the murder will reflect unfairly on their team - fighting tooth and nail to denounce premature references to his right wing interests as hearsay/speculation/unreliable until it became untenable to do so, yet throughout emphasising his mental health history...but have I missed something? When did his alleged mental problems become official rather than "I've heard" and "apparently"?

Clearly anyone who commits a savage act of murder on a stranger has to be "not right in the head", but that would apply to pretty much any violent or sadistic crime, and is only rarely brought out as a mitigation. We're usually content with "evil". So..and its a genuine question, not a political point...have either the police or the health service issued any statement that establishes his mental health problems as real, relevant and the likely primary cause of the incident? Or is all essentially speculation? His own declaration at the time of the murder, arrest and in court confirm for him it was political. What do we actually officially KNOW that makes his mental health the more dominant issue?
 
Several sources contain quotes from him reported to have appeared in a Huddersfield Daily Examiner article back in 2010.

In 2011, he was photographed by the local paper volunteering in nearby Oakwell Hall country park. The previous year he was quoted in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner, saying he had begun volunteering after attending Pathways Day Centre for adults with mental health problems.

“I can honestly say it has done me more good than all the psychotherapy and medication in the world,” he said. “Many people who suffer from mental illness are socially isolated and disconnected from society, feelings of worthlessness are also common, mainly caused by long-term unemployment.

“All these problems are alleviated by doing voluntary work. Getting out of the house and meeting new people is a good thing, but more important in my view is doing physically demanding and useful labour.

“When you have finished there is a feeling of achievement which is emotionally rewarding and psychologically fulfilling. For people for whom full-time, paid employment is not possible for a variety of reasons, voluntary work offers a socially positive and therapeutic alternative.”
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Strangely, if you Google any of the quotes they only seem to show up in the articles claiming them as quotes. A search on the Huddersfield Daily Examiner website also fails to bring up any article with these quotes.

That is perhaps just a glitch in their website or a ditching of older stories, or it was a story that never made the online version. You would assume if the story had been planted as evidence for after the event they would have made sure the source was available online.

It seems to have been easily found though, presumably via a call to the local papers for any reference to him rather than Googling online for old newspaper archives. However, combined with the suddenly readily available receipt for a book 16 years ago and the Britain First demo picture it gives some food for thought.

I saw over the weekend a series of pictures from the Britain First demo with the same four guys holding the banner and a different fifth member. They were from the same day's demonstrating and obviously does not rule out that Mair was taking the pictures for the other shots and changed places for one image - however, it does just further muddy the waters.

pics.jpg

Either something fishy or it shows how very easy it is to concoct a conspiracy these days that even in a case where seemingly the killer was caught immediately and has stated his motivations very clearly it is still possible to construct a storyline and find evidence that contradicts or confuses the 'true' version of events.

Furthermore, take the other man who was stabbed - Bernard Kenny, 77, husband of Doreen - who if you were to go full tinfoil hat could be interpreted to be the patsy Mair's handler guiding him through the mission. He died three years ago, joining his wife Doreen.

http://announce.jpress.co.uk/yorkshire-post-newspaper-ltd/obituary/23562957?s_source=jpno_leed

Or is it just a coincidence. Two couples in their 70s called Bernard and Doreen in West Yorkshire. Easy to find things to construct a conspiracy. Unless it really is a conspiracy... ;)

It's all very interesting.
 
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gattino said:
The mental health thing is interesting. I've seen online people - the side fearing the political aspect of the murder will reflect unfairly on their team - fighting tooth and nail to denounce premature references to his right wing interests as hearsay/speculation/unreliable until it became untenable to do so, yet throughout emphasising his mental health history...but have I missed something? When did his alleged mental problems become official rather than "I've heard" and "apparently"?

Clearly anyone who commits a savage act of murder on a stranger has to be "not right in the head", but that would apply to pretty much any violent or sadistic crime, and is only rarely brought out as a mitigation. We're usually content with "evil". So..and its a genuine question, not a political point...have either the police or the health service issued any statement that establishes his mental health problems as real, relevant and the likely primary cause of the incident? Or is all essentially speculation? His own declaration at the time of the murder, arrest and in court confirm for him it was political. What do we actually officially KNOW that makes his mental health the more dominant issue?
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I think there may be two camps emerging in the media - those who know that since 2008 mental health services have been cut to the bone and this may have been a factor in precipitating his actions; and those who target his extreme right-wing tendencies as a cause.

The official 'spin' put on this tragic event will probably be the 'lone nutcase' which effectively ignores both root causes and allows the cycle to repeat again :( (I used to work in the mental health field)


From The Yorkshire Evening Post:

"Mair volunteered at Oakwell Hall country park in Birstall in 2010 after being a patient of the Mirfield-based Pathways Day Centre for adults with mental illness.

He said* “I can honestly say it has done me more good than all the psychotherapy and medication in the world.

“Many people who suffer from mental illness are socially isolated and disconnected from society, feelings of worthlessness are also common, mainly caused by long-term unemployment.” "

[*in a feature in The Hudderfield Examiner 2010]
 
gattino said:
The mental health thing is interesting. I've seen online people - the side fearing the political aspect of the murder will reflect unfairly on their team - fighting tooth and nail to denounce premature references to his right wing interests as hearsay/speculation/unreliable until it became untenable to do so, yet throughout emphasising his mental health history...but have I missed something? When did his alleged mental problems become official rather than "I've heard" and "apparently"?

Clearly anyone who commits a savage act of murder on a stranger has to be "not right in the head", but that would apply to pretty much any violent or sadistic crime, and is only rarely brought out as a mitigation. We're usually content with "evil". So..and its a genuine question, not a political point...have either the police or the health service issued any statement that establishes his mental health problems as real, relevant and the likely primary cause of the incident? Or is all essentially speculation? His own declaration at the time of the murder, arrest and in court confirm for him it was political. What do we actually officially KNOW that makes his mental health the more dominant issue?
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That's kind of why I started a topic in 'chat'. This phrase 'mental health problems' occurs in a number of recent criminal and terrorist reports. What does it mean? Someone who was treated for depression 20 years ago or someone who is a drooling uncontrollable killer (Rare but they do happen - Heirens, Chase). And if they really are so far off their trolley that they 'cannot control themselves' - reference Heirens aforementioned - than a) should they not have been identified as such, especially if they are already receiving treatment as this man was b) If they weren't because medical health is starved of cash then that needs considering and c) if they are truly off their heads should we not have some compassion for them?

But it seemed to me to be a wider topic than just this one murder, and likely to be more about opinion than fact. So I put it somewhere else.

As to the other man stabbed - is he the man seen arguing with Mair immediately before the attack or is he someone who tried to intervene after the attack started?
 
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Cochise said:
As to the other man stabbed - is he the man seen arguing with Mair immediately before the attack or is he someone who tried to intervene after the attack started?
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The "arguing with mair before the attack" thing was, as far as the police account of the sequence ofevents reported by the chief constable and in the magistrates court goes, entirely false/misreported or misunderstood in the first few hours rush to report on witnesses to the event. Mair confronted and started attacking Cox, the elderly gentleman witnesses it and tried to intervene but was himself stabbed and backed off, Mair completed his attack.
 
Cochise said:
Put this here rather than anywhere else because its Katie Hopkins in the Daily Mail, hardly the most impeccable source.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...te-martyr-beneath-contempt.html#ixzz4C6TZ8ykY
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This actually ties in with what I suspect is probably the closest to the truth.

Mair was aware of his own mental health issues, has gone to get help, been turned away - maybe 'foreigners' / 'immigrants' - ahead of him in the queue and this has stoked up any Nationalist/xenophobic feelings in him.

The following day he has seen the MP and either recognised her as the local MP, or has happened to see her campaigning for the Remain side or talking about it to the other man, and flipped out - shouting 'Britain First' or 'Put British First!' in anger at apparently being pushed down the queue for mental health care due to a view that there are too many non-British. What he had a gun and knife on him for, who knows. Maybe it was planned, maybe it was opportunity presenting itself.

In the aftermath, the incident has then been used to whip up anti-Brexit feelings in the press.
 
The initial reports were a tad confused, but I believe the consensus now is that Jo Cox was about to enter the library to hold her surgery.

That implies Mair had researched her surgery times and had deliberately planned to be armed and waiting for her outside when she arrived.

(I think the initial reports wrongly suggesting Cox had intervened in a fight came from a witness in a nearby shop who heard a commotion, looked out to see two men struggling and a woman on the ground, and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Also Cox's assistant is reported as hitting out at Mair with her handbag, which could have added to the confusion when recalling what happened.)
 
When this story first broke my first thought was; "I bet he has been released/turned away from a mental health resource in the preceding 48 hours."

I really hope that, if this is still in the news after the referendum, they use the memory of Jo Cox to push the Government into investing in mental health funding.
 
gattino said:
The "arguing with mair before the attack" thing was, as far as the police account of the sequence ofevents reported by the chief constable and in the magistrates court goes, entirely false/misreported or misunderstood in the first few hours rush to report on witnesses to the event. Mair confronted and started attacking Cox, the elderly gentleman witnesses it and tried to intervene but was himself stabbed and backed off, Mair completed his attack.
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Ok, thanks - I was obviously still confused about that.
 
McAvennie said:
Mair was aware of his own mental health issues, has gone to get help, been turned away - maybe 'foreigners' / 'immigrants' - ahead of him in the queue and this has stoked up any Nationalist/xenophobic feelings in him.

The following day he has seen the MP and either recognised her as the local MP, or has happened to see her campaigning for the Remain side or talking about it to the other man, and flipped ou
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Sadly that's wholey inaccurate. The police stated clearly that the victim had been actively targeted by Mair. Plus he had a foot long blade and a gun with him..I hardly think he just happened to flip out on the street. "stoking up any nationalist feelings in him" also seems unnecessarily generous as he was - despite early denials by people claiming to know him - an active member of Britain First, had "nazi regalia" in his house, and appears to have been a subscriber to pro-apartheid literature dating back decades.
 
Which actually suggests he was a long-time white supremacist. So it is hardly surprising that 'if' he had some sort of psychotic break, he would take out the sort of target he did.

However, to suggest (as various newspapers and many internet commentators have) that the 40% or so of the voting public that are intending to vote Brexit think the same as an apartheid-era Nazi loving oddball is absurd. And would appear to be strengthening the Brexit vote, judging by the latest poll in the Telegraph.
 
Which latest poll in the Telegraph? None has been mentioned..that I can find..on the dedicated polling site (there's a whole community out there of poll geeks who like to comment on the ups and downs as though providing great scientific insight of their own, but basically trying to spin predictions to their own side and against the other. The poor chap who runs it is forever calmly explaining how to properly read and understand polls ..and how not to. For a sense of the current state of play, and the effect (or rather almost certain lack of one) of the last week's events upon them you can check it out here www.ukpollingreport.co.uk For bickering disguised as wisdom read the comments. I dip in with partisan nonsense of my own occasionally but am largely and wisely ignored.
 
It's their 'running' one . It moved away from Brexit on Friday but it moved back again today.

:) Actually I'd hate to be a pollster - I served my time as a statistician and that was depressing enough.
 
gattino said:
...an active member of Britain First, had "nazi regalia" in his house, and appears to have been a subscriber to pro-apartheid literature dating back decades.
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[Playing conspiracy Devil's advocate] All of which could have been planted to make him fit 'the profile' perfectly.
 
McAvennie said:
Furthermore, take the other man who was stabbed - Bernard Kenny, 77, husband of Doreen - who if you were to go full tinfoil hat could be interpreted to be the patsy Mair's handler guiding him through the mission. He died three years ago, joining his wife Doreen.

http://announce.jpress.co.uk/yorkshire-post-newspaper-ltd/obituary/23562957?s_source=jpno_leed

Or is it just a coincidence. Two couples in their 70s called Bernard and Doreen in West Yorkshire. Easy to find things to construct a conspiracy. Unless it really is a conspiracy... ;)

It's all very interesting.
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That IS interesting.
His age seems to roughly match the obituary. The obituary describes him as 75 in January 2013.
In 2016, he might be coming up to 78.

What an amazing 'coincidence'. :eek:
 
ramonmercado said:
The records of the US group had been gotten at years ago.

Anyway his picture appears several times on the BF site.
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Yeah, I think it's pretty much a done deal. The evidence is there.
It is strange, though. He has a racially-mixed relative and tried his hand at teaching English to Asians. That doesn't sound like a white supremacist.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Yeah, I think it's pretty much a done deal. The evidence is there.
It is strange, though. He has a racially-mixed relative and tried his hand at teaching English to Asians. That doesn't sound like a white supremacist.
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Some racists may not be so on a personal level.
 
One thing about conspiracy theories of this kind - or even the vaguer insinuation of "somethng odd about this" is that the proponents of it seldom seem to consider what a "false flag" conspiracy would require.

A government/secret service/internatioal cabal/the remain camp collectively decide to influence slightly in their favour the voting intentions of the public not by rigging the poll count or planting scandalous evidence about members of the other side but my selecting and savagely murdering an innocent woman on their own side. They either use a patsy who they plant a life time of incriminating back story on and somehow brainwash in police custody to saying things like "death to traitors" (which then further requires the local police are brought into the secret...or perhaps the members of the national and international press who are telling us what the police said. The number of conspirators who will never spill the beans are now getting recklessly large) OR they use a Manchurian candidate..they brain washed him instantly by secret means not yet known to science OR else did so months in advance just in case of momentum in the last week for the leave campaign. And they remain confident no member of this agency, the police, the press, the witnesses etc shall ever give the game away, even though the obviousness of their plot is spotted immediately by people on the internet.

It all seems a bit of drag, really.
 
You would assume at some point one of these major Illuminati / New World Order types would slip up.

MPs can't even claim a few Mars bars and a second home on expenses without getting rumbled yet we constantly discuss how they could be planting newspaper articles and photoshopped pictures of patsies without anyone catching them out.
 
Well said, gattino!

It's like one of my personal objections to the Illuminati. They must be having meetings (they're not going to be texting are they?!), and these are supposed to be the most powerful people in the world, so they sure as hell aren't going to be out in the woods, cooking their own sausages! Which means, big houses, and massive support teams; chauffeurs, bodyguards, chefs, housemaids, cleaning staff, emergency goddamn plumbers... and all of them have kept their mouths shut, all these years? Seriously; we know most human beings can't keep a secret!

Unless, of course, as my son suggested, all the staff are Illuminati as well ;)
 
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