Jordan Peterson

Yithian

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Yay for his wife? In what sense?
Despite an original diagnosis that her cancer was likely terminal, she has responded well to treatment and looks set to survive.

Edit: it is an extremely rare form of kidney cancer, but surgery revealed that it had not spread as the doctors had initially believed.

Edit2: I have no respect for anybody who takes political capital for what has happened, although I am baffled as to why so many North Americans end up on hugely poweful anti-depressants.

Edit3: of the two people I know who have taken such medication for medium and long terms, the former had his personality drastically (and negatively) altered and the latter became a zonbie who only exists on the surface of her former life--it's like she's only half focused. I have no idea whether it was a choice of this or suicide, but both outcomes look pretty poor to me.
 
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Mythopoeika

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Despite an original diagnosis that her cancer was likely terminal, she has responded well to treatment and looks set to survive.

Edit: it is an extremely rare form of kidney cancer, but surgery revealed that it had not spread as the doctors had initially believed.
Fantastic news. I did not know that.
 

AlchoPwn

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He's a human being. Even the best of us can have problems.
When one goes around promulgating a doctrine of "`pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps` machismo", only to lose one's sh*t due to drug addiction over one's wife getting ill, observers might reasonably suggest that practicing what one preaches is in order. Jordan can talk the talk, but apparently doesn't walk the walk, and that's pretty much a public admission of hypocrisy for a self-styled philosopher. Yes, that's harsh, I know, but JP had been very harsh and unsympathetic to a large number of people, so call it karma.
 

AlchoPwn

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We can't really know what's going on with him, can we?
In such situations, people say 'physician, heal thyself' - but sometimes events spiral out of control.
People who are already his opponents will be quick to jump in to make these judgements against him.
So, it's okay for JP to behave like an uncompassionate d*ck to people, but when something bad happens to him we have to feel bad for him? JP taught a philosophy that devalued compassion in favor of individual self reliance. Where is that self reliance now? I don't hear JP rushing to say that his previous pronouncements were wrong in the face of fresh personal evidence, so clearly he must still believe what he said. Now if he backed down and publically changed his mind I would be very inclined to offer a more compassionate outlook, but as he has not, probably because he has been addicted to drugs, which is the pinnacle of personal responsibility and self reliance.
 

AlchoPwn

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It is possible to feel sorry for someone and still think they're an arsehole.
I have to agree that what you say is unequivocally true, but I don't think such an emotional response is very productive. I confess I try to avoid feeling overmuch sympathy for arseholes until they repent, and the more public the arseholery, the more public the repentance needs to be. Perhaps this is a hang-over of my Christian upbringing?
 

Vardoger

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I have to agree that what you say is unequivocally true, but I don't think such an emotional response is very productive. I confess I try to avoid feeling overmuch sympathy for arseholes until they repent, and the more public the arseholery, the more public the repentance needs to be. Perhaps this is a hang-over of my Christian upbringing?
In what arseholey way does Jordan Peterson behave?
 

eburacum

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I cannot reply to this subject in any way that gives the subject justice because of the restrictions on political discussion on this forum; sufficient to say that Peterson and his hard-core followers are all full-weight arseholes.
 

Yithian

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I cannot reply to this subject in any way that gives the subject justice because of the restrictions on political discussion on this forum; sufficient to say that Peterson and his hard-core followers are all full-weight arseholes.
We've managed to conduct a conversation so far.

I suggest that if you avoid party politics and limit youself to a critique of his statements and positions, you'll remain within the guidelines.
 

maximus otter

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There is rather a lot of ground to cover...
Would your objections to him centre mainly on the idea that he is of a political mindset which rhymes with "tight string"?

If so, I promise I shan't bother you any further.

maximus otter
 

AlchoPwn

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Would your objections to him centre mainly on the idea that he is of a political mindset which rhymes with "tight string"? If so, I promise I shan't bother you any further. maximus otter
While I lean left, I am a centrist and I am vocal about loathing opinions on both extremes. I would consider JP to be a mild libertarian (which is a bit right wing). I certainly agree with his pro-Freedom of speech position unequivocally, and I am also not fond of political correctness as I, along with JP, think it is a species of thought policing. I do begin to draw the line when a psychologist like JP begins to promulgate Climate Denial without actually addressing any of the science. I find that the level of scientific illiteracy on the topic on both left and right should be getting more people to STFU and do their homework, and Peterson expressing an uninformed opinion in as if it should matter adds nothing to the debate. Had he waded in with a legitimate scientific criticism of Climate Change, or criticised the left for politicising what should be a bipartisan issue, I would be far more sympathetic towards him. More broadly I can understand the appeal of the sort of rugged individualism that JP promotes, but where I begin to doubt him is when he begins to promote a life philosophy that begins to sound like it has been plagiarised from a pick-up artist website. He literally does a whole spiel where he discusses female psychology and their pursuit of the alpha male, in favor of the beta "nice guys". Word for word it could have come from a pick up forum, and this from a public intellectual? What next?

I guess my problem with Peterson, condensed, is that he is glib, but not substantial. What he says sounds snappy and informed, but when you listen more closely and think about what is being said more critically, you realise that you are being fast-talked into buying a lemon. On close inspection, the sad truth is that JP has nothing new to say. Everything he says has been said before and often better, but he dresses it up like it is his own idea; relevant and contemporary, but it never is. Now there might be some spineless millennials out there who could benefit from a bit of tough love, but the same answer will not work for everyone, and should not be "sold as a cure-all". I certainly don't think that arguing against compassion is a form of decency, and often JP does just that. JP behaves like a culty life coach, while recent events suggest that he himself may be in need of one. Ergo he doesn't practice what he preaches.
 

Krepostnoi

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Sorry, Yith, the reply you refer to was no less detailed than much of the opprobrium being hurled at Greta Thunberg in her eponymous thread. :sstorm: The difference in approach is instructive. Insinuation withdrawn and apology tendered - see #358, below.
 
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maximus otter

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While I lean left, I am a centrist and I am vocal about loathing opinions on both extremes. I would consider JP to be a mild libertarian (which is a bit right wing). I certainly agree with his pro-Freedom of speech position unequivocally, and I am also not fond of political correctness as I, along with JP, think it is a species of thought policing. I do begin to draw the line when a psychologist like JP begins to promulgate Climate Denial without actually addressing any of the science. I find that the level of scientific illiteracy on the topic on both left and right should be getting more people to STFU and do their homework, and Peterson expressing an uninformed opinion in as if it should matter adds nothing to the debate. Had he waded in with a legitimate scientific criticism of Climate Change, or criticised the left for politicising what should be a bipartisan issue, I would be far more sympathetic towards him. More broadly I can understand the appeal of the sort of rugged individualism that JP promotes, but where I begin to doubt him is when he begins to promote a life philosophy that begins to sound like it has been plagiarised from a pick-up artist website. He literally does a whole spiel where he discusses female psychology and their pursuit of the alpha male, in favor of the beta "nice guys". Word for word it could have come from a pick up forum, and this from a public intellectual? What next?

I guess my problem with Peterson, condensed, is that he is glib, but not substantial. What he says sounds snappy and informed, but when you listen more closely and think about what is being said more critically, you realise that you are being fast-talked into buying a lemon. On close inspection, the sad truth is that JP has nothing new to say. Everything he says has been said before and often better, but he dresses it up like it is his own idea; relevant and contemporary, but it never is. Now there might be some spineless millennials out there who could benefit from a bit of tough love, but the same answer will not work for everyone, and should not be "sold as a cure-all". I certainly don't think that arguing against compassion is a form of decency, and often JP does just that. JP behaves like a culty life coach, while recent events suggest that he himself may be in need of one. Ergo he doesn't practice what he preaches.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to amplify your position. It makes me more determined to add his book to my “to read” list.

maximus otter
 

Frideswide

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General comment - take the snidery off this thread people and don't look for another home for it here!

Frideswide
 

Yithian

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The difference in approach is instructive.
It shouldn't be.

There's no approach worthy of the name here. I simply opened the thread at the latest post on my walk home and saw a weak answer. I have only been looking at the Greta Thunberg thread when expressly asked to do so by posters (reports) or fellow mods as it's lapsed into rubbish.

We do have an intention to say something there, but all of us have been too busy to write it yesterday (my daughter's birthday) or today (a heavy work schedule). If a point needs rebutting there, jump in a rebut it. I will post there in a few hours when I've done the bedtime routine and helped my wife pack for a journey.

I literally can't police everything all the time and still have a life.
 

Ogdred Weary

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It shouldn't be.

There's no approach worthy of the name here. I simply opened the thread at the latest post on my walk home and saw a weak answer. I have only been looking at the Greta Thunberg thread when expressly asked to do so by posters (reports) or fellow mods as it's lapsed into rubbish.

We do have an intention to say something there, but all of us have been too busy to write it yesterday (my daughter's birthday) or today (a heavy work schedule). If a point needs rebutting there, jump in a rebut it. I will post there in a few hours when I've done the bedtime routine and helped my wife pack for a journey.

I literally can't police everything all the time and still have a life.
I hope your family had a nice day yesterday and today and a big thank you for your efforts here as well as those of the other mods, an unenviable task. I fear that threads like this and the Greta one my have to be closed in the near future, regrettable but this is ultimately a "weird shit/human eccentricity" board, not a political one.
 
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Would your objections to him centre mainly on the idea that he is of a political mindset which rhymes with "tight string"?

If so, I promise I shan't bother you any further.

maximus otter
I actually like the way JP takes on the "Woke" and Intersectionals, calling out their postmodernist illogic and hypocrisy.

I don't like his (at best) paternalistic (possibly patriarchal) attitude to women.

I differ with him on his political leanings.
 

Megadeth1977

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I refuse to listen to some one who panders to people with unpleasant views no matter how much jp denies it. I'm not and will never be intolerant of in intolerance even though some turnip on Reddit called me an enlightened centrist:mad:
 
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