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Jordan Peterson

Those who disagree with him have probably never read any of his books and may not even know why they disagree with him.
AFAIK, it's just a self-help book like the first one. It probably contains a lot of good advice (and maybe some that can be argued about).

Many of those who agree with him have probably never read any of his (two) books and may not know why they agree with him.

Like many of of those that disagree with him they have likely watched some youtube videos, some or all of which may be short clip shows or two minute chunks out of context. In my experience most people seldom engage in much depth with anything unless they have too.

The book prior to the new one is a self help book, of sorts. I read the intro and one chapter and found it overwritten, obtuse and obsessed with arcana from the Bible and some other mythologies. I have a greater verbal acuity than most and with parallel literary comprehension and I found it a slog, so God knows what, if anything, others are making of it. I'm interested in mythology but didn't find it especially enlightening and th ebulk of the chapter didn't seem relate much to the chapter title, one of the "12 Rules". Like many other books it's probably far more widely bought than read and I dare say more widely read than understood.

The cult around Peterson is worrying, he's a "divisive" figure, which nowadays means "he upsets the people who I don't like" which I think is much of the appeal to some people. This is not a new thing, it's just something that is becoming ever more shrill and hysterical, on all sides.

I'm not saying he doesn't have anything of value to say but he's not the Messiah.
 
Many of those who agree with him have probably never read any of his (two) books and may not know why they agree with him.

Like many of of those that disagree with him they have likely watched some youtube videos, some or all of which may be short clip shows or two minute chunks out of context. In my experience most people seldom engage in much depth with anything unless they have too.

The book prior to the new one is a self help book, of sorts. I read the intro and one chapter and found it overwritten, obtuse and obsessed with arcana from the Bible and some other mythologies. I have a greater verbal acuity than most and with parallel literary comprehension and I found it a slog, so God knows what, if anything, others are making of it. I'm interested in mythology but didn't find it especially enlightening and th ebulk of the chapter didn't seem relate much to the chapter title, one of the "12 Rules". Like many other books it's probably far more widely bought than read and I dare say more widely read than understood.

The cult around Peterson is worrying, he's a "divisive" figure, which nowadays means "he upsets the people who I don't like" which I think is much of the appeal to some people. This is not a new thing, it's just something that is becoming ever more shrill and hysterical, on all sides.

I'm not saying he doesn't have anything of value to say but he's not the Messiah.
Sure. Today, I pre-ordered his new book.
It may be a pile of crap or it may be a work of genius, but at least I'll find out.
Generally, there is always something imperfect about a book or a person - it's almost impossible to agree with something 100%.
I don't agree with Peterson about everything.
 
Generally, there is always something imperfect about a book or a person - it's almost impossible to agree with something 100%.

tumblr_p34ik0R4931u2ragso1_500.gif
 
Oh, very good! :)
 
I wonder if a lot of sales of Peterson’s books are due to those disagreeing with him having to read them to counter his arguments.
Those who disagree with him have probably never read any of his books and may not even know why they disagree with him. ...

There are plenty of people who've read his books and still criticize them, just as there are plenty of people who support him who've never read any of his books.

The reason is that one's attitude toward Peterson and his work largely depends upon which phase(s) / version(s) of Peterson's work one is addressing (if only vicariously).

The original foundation of his work dates back to his 1999 book Maps of Meaning - a scholarly / academic oriented book developed over more than a decade. The book purported to outline and apply a theory for how humans create meaning, ostensibly grounded in the latest scientific understandings of cognition and related phenomena. This alleged theme was framed with regard to a broader inquiry into human motivation and social philosophy - most specifically involving musings on evil, chaos and the challenges of finding and maintaining beliefs in a sometimes seemingly insane world. The initial focus on meaning-making ends up fading in favor of the musings.

Being an academic work, the book wasn't a bestseller and made little impact. Academic reviewers didn't consistently give the book high marks for (e.g.) precision or coherence. Peterson refers to several thinkers in developing his theses - most particularly Jung - in a sometimes loose and casual manner that leaves one wondering whether their relevance extends beyond window dressing. This, plus his clear affinity for traditionalist values and progressive prioritization of them as meritorious objectives, left people wondering whether the book was more rhetorical than analytical.

It wasn't until circa 2016 that Peterson's popular celebrity emerged in relation to his much-publicized resistance to what he claimed were overly and unjustifiably restrictive policies on politically correct speech. In his criticisms of the socio-political scene he recycled themes and claims from his earlier work, remodeled for a popular audience and addressing personal ethics more than a grand theory of history.

His 2018 12 Rules for Life was framed as more of a self-help book than a scholarly treatise. The themes and points he carried forward from his earlier work were given a heavy dose of 'spin' relating to his more recent concerns and celebrity. As a result, 12 Rules comes across as more a product of his later anti-PC / traditionalist public persona than a follow-on to his earlier work.

It's easy to construe this second book as a product of his YouTube-era pop sociopolitical gadfly incarnation rather than a belated continuation of his original scholarly objectives. I suspect those who bemoan the notion of a 12 Rules sequel see it this way, whether or not they even know of his earlier work.
 
It's easy to construe this second book as a product of his YouTube-era pop sociopolitical gadfly incarnation rather than a belated continuation of his original scholarly objectives. I suspect those who bemoan the notion of a 12 Rules sequel see it this way, whether or not they even know of his earlier work.

I'm not sure whether it all predates his first appearance on YouTube (30/3/13), but most of the thought behind Twelve Rules For Life predates his success on the platform; the text is adapted from a (longer) series of posts (42 rules) on Quora that started in 2012.

List of original rules here (without explanations):
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-...everyone-should-know/answer/Jordan-B-Peterson

The same with some short explanation:

I don't know whether the original texts are still available to compare, but here is his account:

https://www.quora.com/profile/Jordan-B-Peterson
 
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I’m well aware of Maps of Meaning and the Rules. They’re both on the bookshelf. I’ve previously pasted a couple of his videos here and found his video lecture on the symbolism in Pinocchio very interesting. Yes, he’s Jungian, which shouldn’t be too much of a reach for Forteans. He’s also apparently a Christian. He’s had decades of experience analysing people in a professional capacity and seems acutely aware of the dynamics in interviews and doesn’t suffer fools gladly.
 
Jordan Peterson recalls waking from coma, confused, tethered and 'surrounded by people speaking a foreign language'
A year ago, Jordan Peterson woke from a coma in a hospital in Russia strapped to a bed, bewildered and angry and holding little memory of what had gone on since he went to a Toronto hospital two months before. “I had six-inch tethers attaching me to the sides of the bed because, in my unconscious state, I had been agitated enough to try to remove the catheters from my arm and leave the ICU.”

One of the last memories Peterson retained was furiously working on a new book, a sequel to his international bestseller 12 Rules for Life.
The result, which he said was largely created “during a time when my family was plagued by sequential and overlapping bouts of seriously impaired health” is Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life, released on March 2.

His spiralling personal and family ordeals are detailed in the book but are far from its focus. In January 2019, his daughter had tricky surgery in Switzerland to replace parts of her artificial ankle. As she recovered, his wife, Tammy, had surgery for what was thought to be a common kidney disease, but turned out to be a rare, often deadly type of cancer.

His wife’s treatment was extensive and arduous and while she recuperated, Peterson wrote in his book, “my health fell apart.”
https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...rounded-by-people-speaking-a-foreign-language
 
This news report has only appeared because his new book is out now. I just got my copy today. I hope the book sales will cheer him up.
 
He looks a bit peaky, should get more red meat in his diet.
 
Yes, Peterson has some interestimg stuff to say now and again...but what I really. really don't get is why ..why anyone would want to hear more `Rules for Life` from the guy!

I genuinely find it hard to think of a public persona who has so spectacularly - and indeed so melodramatically - messed up their own lives as much as Peterson has.

He became hopelessly addicted to a rare tranquilizer - ended up in a Russian hospital being put into an induced coma, went to a Serbian hospitsal and got Covid, suffered brain damage - all the while being bailed out by his own daughter - and then, to make a come back, gave a frank interview with a journalist that any fool could have told him would prove a snake in the grass.

Yes, we all of us mess up, yes he has had a lot of difficulties to contend with, yes there are some extenuating circumstances but - sheesh people! - taking Rules for Life advice from this guy woukd be like taking lessons in International Diplomacy from...Jeremy Clarkson!
 
Yes, Peterson has some interestimg stuff to say now and again...but what I really. really don't get is why ..why anyone would want to hear more `Rules for Life` from the guy!

I genuinely find it hard to think of a public persona who has so spectacularly - and indeed so melodramatically - messed up their own lives as much as Peterson has.

He became hopelessly addicted to a rare tranquilizer - ended up in a Russian hospital being put into an induced coma, went to a Serbian hospitsal and got Covid, suffered brain damage - all the while being bailed out by his own daughter - and then, to make a come back, gave a frank interview with a journalist that any fool could have told him would prove a snake in the grass.

Yes, we all of us mess up, yes he has had a lot of difficulties to contend with, yes there are some extenuating circumstances but - sheesh people! - taking Rules for Life advice from this guy woukd be like taking lessons in International Diplomacy from...Jeremy Clarkson!

If his devotees follow in his footsteps he will at least have done his bit for overpopulation.
 
He's a smart guy, unfortunately he shares too much of a trait that we all have to some extent - self destruction.
His other failings are too much religion, and a dreadfully inadequate diet.
Having said that, he is a great thinker, the world needs more people like him, and fewer self-centred drama queens.
 
His other failings are too much religion, and a dreadfully inadequate diet.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the first point requires a bit more elaboration than the first!

He survives on steak, 'greens' and salt? Case closed.

'Too much religion'? You're going to have to justify that.
 
Having said that, he is a great thinker, the world needs more people like him, and fewer self-centred drama queens.

I'm not certain how great a thinker he is he seems to have had quite a lot of drama in his life, quite a bit may be self generated or at least self exacerbated and he is certainly lapping up all the attention he gets.
 
Someone not liking or dismissing Jordan Peterson? Oh dear! Disclosure: I never heard of him before two years ago and I have never read any of his books. I was planning to via my local library, but covid has postponed that. I have watched about 10 hours on youtube of his debates and university lectures.

I have on the wall next to my desk, a paraphrase of something he said, which greatly impressed me. “Truth is a tool and not an ontological statement about the world.” I have never before put someone’s quote on a wall to think about – except my own of course! (My god, I think I have finally become an apologist for someone.) As with most things in life, I think the devil (the “truth”) is in the details, and if someone does not listen or read Peterson directly, one will miss those details. So, Jordan Peterson: I think he is much mis-represented and maligned publicly. I think he is smart and compassionate, and imperfect. I wish I had the good fortune to know him in real life.

Regarding his weird diet: from what he has said, his weird diet is due to extreme food allergies; a condition his daughter shares. These allergies are life-altering or life-shortening. They have dealt with this for decades, with various remedies prescribed by physicians, all leading to very poor results. They know that this is extreme; they know that this has in itself health consequences; and they know that their previous symptoms have been reduced or eliminated. He has never advocated that anyone ever try this and has warned against it.

Regarding his widely-believed anti-gay stance: I have not seen any direct evidence that this is true. The whole schemozzle started when he challenged a bill introduced to the Canadian or Quebec legislature. This bill was backed by a very small subset of the LGBTQ community, which wanted to legally ban the use of pronouns, both singular and plural, which denoted a reference to sex or gender. Peterson thought this was absurd and would create problems or inconveniences for everyone. I checked it out with gay friends, and they think the whole “one term for everyone both singular and plural” was foolish.

Regarding his Christianity: Yes he is a Christian, I am not. Still, I think his stating that his beliefs influence his world view, opinions, and professional practice is refreshingly honest. I also think he has a lot of very thoughtful and helpful opinions. Ditto his Jungianism.

My take-aways from my limited watching youtube: Jordan Peterson had a professional practice as a psychological therapist for years (decades?) focusing on depressed men living in Canada. He states that: one should try to be helpful in the world without waiting to be told by someone to do it; one should try to view oneself as a member of a community; one should try to be self-supporting; one should try to think of how to be helpful even if you don’t know exactly what to do.

What’s not to love?!?
 
Someone not liking or dismissing Jordan Peterson? Oh dear! Disclosure: I never heard of him before two years ago and I have never read any of his books. I was planning to via my local library, but covid has postponed that. I have watched about 10 hours on youtube of his debates and university lectures.

I have on the wall next to my desk, a paraphrase of something he said, which greatly impressed me. “Truth is a tool and not an ontological statement about the world.” I have never before put someone’s quote on a wall to think about – except my own of course! (My god, I think I have finally become an apologist for someone.) As with most things in life, I think the devil (the “truth”) is in the details, and if someone does not listen or read Peterson directly, one will miss those details. So, Jordan Peterson: I think he is much mis-represented and maligned publicly. I think he is smart and compassionate, and imperfect. I wish I had the good fortune to know him in real life.

Regarding his weird diet: from what he has said, his weird diet is due to extreme food allergies; a condition his daughter shares. These allergies are life-altering or life-shortening. They have dealt with this for decades, with various remedies prescribed by physicians, all leading to very poor results. They know that this is extreme; they know that this has in itself health consequences; and they know that their previous symptoms have been reduced or eliminated. He has never advocated that anyone ever try this and has warned against it.

Regarding his widely-believed anti-gay stance: I have not seen any direct evidence that this is true. The whole schemozzle started when he challenged a bill introduced to the Canadian or Quebec legislature. This bill was backed by a very small subset of the LGBTQ community, which wanted to legally ban the use of pronouns, both singular and plural, which denoted a reference to sex or gender. Peterson thought this was absurd and would create problems or inconveniences for everyone. I checked it out with gay friends, and they think the whole “one term for everyone both singular and plural” was foolish.

Regarding his Christianity: Yes he is a Christian, I am not. Still, I think his stating that his beliefs influence his world view, opinions, and professional practice is refreshingly honest. I also think he has a lot of very thoughtful and helpful opinions. Ditto his Jungianism.

My take-aways from my limited watching youtube: Jordan Peterson had a professional practice as a psychological therapist for years (decades?) focusing on depressed men living in Canada. He states that: one should try to be helpful in the world without waiting to be told by someone to do it; one should try to view oneself as a member of a community; one should try to be self-supporting; one should try to think of how to be helpful even if you don’t know exactly what to do.

What’s not to love?!?

Fair play, I liked it when he did that coma thing.
 
Fair play, I liked it when he did that coma thing.
Yes. Wasn't that a terrible and bizarre situation? I respected how honest he was with how he ended up in a coma, in a different country, recovering from drug addiction, etc. I also privately wondered how such a smart man could do such a dumb thing regarding the addictive drug (albeit prescribed by his trusted physician). I am thankful that I don't have anyone watching me make a dumb mistake and then publicly announcing and criticizing it. Back to Jordan Peterson, I hope he recovers completely.
 
I don’t think Jordan Peterson divides the crowd. It’s just that the crowd is divided already. Personally, I like the way he used his intellect to deflect the clumsily assimilated and ignorant opinions of his opponents. I could always guess how his opponents would try to lay the elephant traps when interviewing him but could never guess how he would analyse the interviewer and the thrust of the conversation and how he would respond. At the peak of his powers, he’s a wily old fox. I’d like to see how he comes out of all this.
 
I'm not certain how great a thinker he is he seems to have had quite a lot of drama in his life, quite a bit may be self generated or at least self exacerbated and he is certainly lapping up all the attention he gets.
We all have some level of drama in our lives, and we're incredibly bad at heeding our own advice.

He makes a living from lecturing, talks, and his books, so I guess the public exposure is a good thing.

He doesn't have an issue with the LGBTQ+ community, he is respectful to individuals but he doesn't believe in compelled speech, and neither do I.
(I had a transgender colleague who I was very close to, I had no issues with using their preferred pronouns because they were very amiable, and not looking to be offended or claiming to be oppressed, but I've met some really obnoxious, self-centred, people, who never gave a thought to others, and were waiting for every opportunity to be a victim. I am very sociable, and compassionate but I have no desire to engage with people who play identity politics)

He advocates self-autonomy, hard work and honesty, I think those are noble values, and I hope he gets his act together.
 
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