Kabbalah: Why Would Quantum Physicists Look Into It?

rynner2

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
55,233
Reaction score
9,134
Points
284
Despite early accusations of being Spam, this thread has survived, so here's another offering:
Preaching to the converted: how Kabbalah keeps on growing
Kabbalah is booming, with the London HQ planning a £5m extension and boasting over 1,000 devotees, many of them City high-fliers. But what does the faith really offer?
Harriet Sherwood
Monday 26 October 2015 18.55 GMT

Marcus Weston strides into his office, housed in an elegant Georgian house in the West End of London, clutching a bottle of slime-coloured water. It’s made from lemon, ginger, cucumber and super greens powder, and West drinks 1.5 litres of it a day. “It gives me an extra gear, cleans me inside and makes my thinking clearer,” he says.
Weston, a former investment banker, devotes this clarity to studying and teaching Kabbalah. Commonly described as a mystical offshoot of Judaism, it has grown exponentially in the UK since its London headquarters opened in 2002. Now 1,100 students cram into its premises, which are next door to the upmarket Oriental Club, each week, with waiting lists for some classes and events, and it teaches spiritualism to businesses, diplomats, charities and local authorities. Weston has been invited to a Whitehall meeting to discuss the idea of incorporating emotional intelligence content into the national curriculum. “We’re inundated,” he says.

But recently two people came to the London Kabbalah centre who were not seeking to fill a spiritual void in their lives. Knocking on the door at 5am on a Sunday morning were a pair of council officials investigating a call from a local resident, who complained about 36 hours of continuous loud chanting that had emanated from the centre. “I guess it was too noisy for one person, for which I apologise,” says Weston, with a shrug and a smile.

The complaint about the chanting over the Jewish holiday of Sukkot drew fresh attention to a movement whose many reported celebrity adherents include Madonna, Gwyneth Paltrow and Demi Moore. Princess Eugenie, currently eighth in line to the throne, has been photographed apparently wearing the distinctive red thread that devotees ties around their left wrist, although Weston declines to be drawn on this, saying only that he has “many connections with many royal families around the world”.

Weston is a charming man, wearing a smart suit, perfectly judged stubble and an almost-continuous smile. He is happily expansive on the spiritual meaning of Kabbalah, with only a slight clench of the jaw betraying irritation at questions regarding the financing of the movement and claims by some that it is a cult. Brought up in a “very un-observant but culturally Jewish” family, he embarked on a career in investment banking before chancing upon Kabbalah 16 years ago.

“I wasn’t looking for anything spiritual, but felt there was more to life than sitting on the tube. I came to a class and sat at the back, thinking, ‘What on earth am I doing?’. But the more the guy talked, the more it made sense, it resonated.”

Now he is the full-time lead teacher at the London Kabbalah centre, living with his wife and small children in Kabbalah accommodation, eating Kabbalah food and drawing on his savings for all other necessities or pleasures. He says he is entitled to a salary or allowance, but chooses not to take one.

etc...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/26/kabbalah-religion-marcus-weston-madonna
 

Anonymous-50446

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
8,858
Reaction score
10,902
Points
279
Despite early accusations of being Spam, this thread has survived, so here's another offering:
Preaching to the converted: how Kabbalah keeps on growing
Kabbalah is booming, with the London HQ planning a £5m extension and boasting over 1,000 devotees, many of them City high-fliers. But what does the faith really offer?
Harriet Sherwood
Monday 26 October 2015 18.55 GMT

Marcus Weston strides into his office, housed in an elegant Georgian house in the West End of London, clutching a bottle of slime-coloured water. It’s made from lemon, ginger, cucumber and super greens powder, and West drinks 1.5 litres of it a day. “It gives me an extra gear, cleans me inside and makes my thinking clearer,” he says.
Weston, a former investment banker, devotes this clarity to studying and teaching Kabbalah. Commonly described as a mystical offshoot of Judaism, it has grown exponentially in the UK since its London headquarters opened in 2002. Now 1,100 students cram into its premises, which are next door to the upmarket Oriental Club, each week, with waiting lists for some classes and events, and it teaches spiritualism to businesses, diplomats, charities and local authorities. Weston has been invited to a Whitehall meeting to discuss the idea of incorporating emotional intelligence content into the national curriculum. “We’re inundated,” he says.

But recently two people came to the London Kabbalah centre who were not seeking to fill a spiritual void in their lives. Knocking on the door at 5am on a Sunday morning were a pair of council officials investigating a call from a local resident, who complained about 36 hours of continuous loud chanting that had emanated from the centre. “I guess it was too noisy for one person, for which I apologise,” says Weston, with a shrug and a smile.

The complaint about the chanting over the Jewish holiday of Sukkot drew fresh attention to a movement whose many reported celebrity adherents include Madonna, Gwyneth Paltrow and Demi Moore. Princess Eugenie, currently eighth in line to the throne, has been photographed apparently wearing the distinctive red thread that devotees ties around their left wrist, although Weston declines to be drawn on this, saying only that he has “many connections with many royal families around the world”.

Weston is a charming man, wearing a smart suit, perfectly judged stubble and an almost-continuous smile. He is happily expansive on the spiritual meaning of Kabbalah, with only a slight clench of the jaw betraying irritation at questions regarding the financing of the movement and claims by some that it is a cult. Brought up in a “very un-observant but culturally Jewish” family, he embarked on a career in investment banking before chancing upon Kabbalah 16 years ago.

“I wasn’t looking for anything spiritual, but felt there was more to life than sitting on the tube. I came to a class and sat at the back, thinking, ‘What on earth am I doing?’. But the more the guy talked, the more it made sense, it resonated.”

Now he is the full-time lead teacher at the London Kabbalah centre, living with his wife and small children in Kabbalah accommodation, eating Kabbalah food and drawing on his savings for all other necessities or pleasures. He says he is entitled to a salary or allowance, but chooses not to take one.

etc...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/26/kabbalah-religion-marcus-weston-madonna
I note, as ever, it's the very well off who are the first recruits...for some reason.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,568
Reaction score
4,073
Points
154
I thought to study the kabbalah you had to be a scholar over 40 years old, and pretty advanced in your theological studies.
This is a Rabbinic not a Talmudic injunction, so that isn't strictly true, and there is no "law" stopping anyone from taking an interest in the Kabbalah within Judaism. It is also recommended that the study is taken on with a partner as without a like minded person there to ground you a bit, it can send you loopy apparently.

This is the usual mystical arse gravy from people who think by banging together quantum mechanics, which they don't understand, the kabbalah, which they don't understand, and the idea of the holographic universe, which is methaphor not a theory, which they don't understand, they've achieved some sort of insight... :roll:
:cynic:
I note, as ever, it's the very well off who are the first recruits...for some reason.
Well obviously they are the elect, and for mere money, the secrets of the Kabbalah universe are theirs for the taking. I bet they love it when their Guru (sorry) Rabbi allows them to make a donation. It is such a privilege.
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
6,472
Points
279
, and the idea of the holographic universe, which is methaphor not a theory, which they don't understand, they've achieved some sort of insight... :roll:
No idea what a methaphor is, but maybe you could explain just why the idea of a holographic Universe can be so easily dismissed.

INT21.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,568
Reaction score
4,073
Points
154
How can Kabbalah be based on 'codes in the Bible'? It is well known to be a 12th century Jewish modification of an existing Islamic formulation and neither of these frameworks drew very heavily on the Bible if at all. And this is definitely spam. In fact, prostletysing spam which is the lamest and most despicable sort.
To be fair, I suspect by "The Bible" they mean the Torah, which is at least the Old Testament. The system that is used is called Gematria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria. As for the Kabbalah being Islamic, that is an interesting claim, would you happen to have a source for it? I have read similar claims about it being Hermetic, but there does seem to be a clear line of development of the ideas going back in Judaic scripture, which is why I am interested. As for the spam, well, they're not the Messiah, they're just very naughty.

No idea what a methaphor is, but maybe you could explain just why the idea of a holographic Universe can be so easily dismissed. INT21.
Happy to oblige as it needs a bit of context. A metaphor is a figure of speech or an object which is used to symbolise something else as if the connection were literal, when in fact they are not. Take for example "You are a wrecking ball at social gatherings". The person is not a literal wrecking ball but the effect they supposedly have at social gatherings is similar. If the phrase "you are like a wrecking ball at parties" were used however that would be a similie, just because the word "like" or "resemble" or "seem to be" are used.

Now in terms of the Holographic Universe, the Universe clearly isn't a hologram, but it shares certain properties of a hologram, just as some people share certain properties with a wrecking ball at parties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
Thus, the idea which was being treated as a scientific theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory (i.e. a done deal, and next to completely bulletproof scientific explanation) in certain flaky arse gravy movies for the woo-woo set, when it was actually just a series of symbolic and systemic similarities (try saying that 3 times quickly). So while the idea of a Holographic universe is very interesting, it is a usefully descriptive metaphor for understanding how some parts of the universe behave, but the metaphor breaks down, because like a model plane, it isn't a real plane (similie), it is a detailed description of a certain part of it and how it operates( in the case of the plane, the outside of it scaled down, in the case of the Holographic Universe, how facets of quantum gravity behaves as if it is encoded onto the boundary of another spacial dimension, much like a hologram is encoded onto a 2d base layer but projects 3 dimensions to our eyes). Reading over that it seems as clear as arse gravy to me.
 
Last edited:

Timble2

Imaginary Person
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
5,938
Reaction score
2,086
Points
234
Location
In a Liminal Zone
No idea what a methaphor is, but maybe you could explain just why the idea of a holographic Universe can be so easily dismissed.

INT21.
It's nearly ten years since that post, the holographic universe theropy is a far as far as I understand it, that the 3D structure of the universe is a projection of information contained in underlying 2D structures, it's not literally a holographic image/hologram which is a 3D image, constructed by shining a light through a photographic plate in which the information to construct is effectively stored in 2 dimensions (well as patterns in a 3D) object. It's a useful way of visualising a concept that will tend to boggle most peoples minds (include mine). And it's a snappy name for the theory.
I was dismissing the original posters use of the concept, taking it as evidence that everything is connected in some metaphysical way, and dragging in poor old quantum mechanics to bolster it.

Edit: Just realised that AlchoPwn's explained it a lot better than I have...
 
Last edited:

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
1,843
Points
184
Location
Indiana
I'm certainly no expert on Kabbalah or Quantum Physics but some of these ideas and eastern mysticism ideas have been mentioned along with quantum ideas for some time now. Both books The Dancing Wu Li Masters and The Tao of Physics approached similar 'mystical ideas regarding the new physics. And of course The Holographic Universe by Talbot presented one of the first holographic themes in a book form.
And some early physicists were interested in eastern mystical themes also.
 

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
1,843
Points
184
Location
Indiana
I also enjoyed reading these ideas some years ago....though some of it is hard for me to grok.
I believe there is also 'mysticism' within these ideas though Bohm would probably say not though I think he did talk about such connections in the past and has spent some time discussing such ideas with eastern philosophical proponents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicate_and_explicate_order
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,568
Reaction score
4,073
Points
154
Edit: Just realised that AlchoPwn's explained it a lot better than I have...
Nonsense! How dare you? I wrote barely coherent gibberish! :willy::headspinner::ranting::crazy::beer:Your answer was far more succinct.
 
Last edited:

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
6,472
Points
279
Dr wu,

I also read those books a long time ago.

Maybe time for another look at them.

AlchoPwn,

Your barely coherent gibberish is recognised as such by cognoscenti world wide.

Probably the subject of at least half a dozen Phd papers.

INT21 ;)
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
6,472
Points
279
Timble2,

I made a 3D hologram (of a porcelain duck) when I was studying electronics. Sadly lost it.

But my problem with the holographic principle was 'where was the projector ?'.

INT21.
 

Victory

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
1,126
Reaction score
2,409
Points
154
Location
London
Note: "The Kabbalah Centre" is a moneymaking enterprise distanced from mainstream Judaism.
As exposed in a number of places, it charges extortionate fees for such bizarre items as a scarlet thread to be worn on the arm, and bottles of "blessed water".
It is akin to a cult.

Kabbalah is studied within normative Judaism in a non-exploitative way.
No need to go to this "Kabbalah Centre".
 

uair01

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
3,063
Reaction score
3,705
Points
184
Location
Rotterdam
Last weekend I went to Amsterdam and saw the Kabbalah exhibit. It was great. If you're in Amsterdam you should go.
I'll post some pictures in random order.

A forbidden book on Christian Kabbalah by Pico della Mirandola

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Kabbalah#Pico_della_Mirandola

The (relatively modern, I guess 1900) label says: FORBIDDEN BOOK, according to the general regulations of the Canonical Law =

kabb01.jpgkabb02.jpg
 
Top