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Karma

Do you believe in a type of "Karma"?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 35.3%
  • No, it's all about finding meaning in random events

    Votes: 13 38.2%
  • Yes, but I call it something else

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • I think there's something in it, though have no firm belief

    Votes: 6 17.6%

  • Total voters
    34
Chip shop owner 'celebrates' after death of the Queen.
differential sanity
Indeed.
I can understand some of the sentiment she has expressed on her chalkboards - she appears to have listed all of the things that 'conspiracy theorists' ** like to inform us of.

I am reminded of the maxim "An empty vessel makes the loudest noise".

(** - quite often these things turn out to be true though, but not always)
 
As an atheist and someone who does not believe in reincarnation I'm strictly in the "No" camp. For karma to work there would need to be an external agent, power, god etc. to punish / reward as necessary and I do not believe such a power exists. Saying that the "universe or cosmos" sorts these things out just doesn't wash with me. IMO it is wishful thinking for people who see a random, unfair world. I remember reading that most Nazis involved in the atrocities in the concentration camps were never brought to justice and presumably died in their sleep in their homes in South America or wherever they fled to. When people do see what they believe to be karma taking place it is merely coincidence, nothing more. As an earlier poster commented 'Karma, scharma'
 
I recall having a car full of kids after a Xmas shopping trip to Colchester. Pulling out of the car park I was faced with the daunting task of waiting for a break in the traffic and pulling onto a dual carriageway. After a few minutes there was a suitable break but as I started to edge out an oncoming car visibly accelerated to close the gap. As he passed the guy driving and the 10-12yo in the passenger seat of said car were looking directly at me and laughing....not realising that the traffic in front had come to a halt! Crash.
We went around the roundabout and got onto the carriageway in the opposite direction, I slowed the car, opened the window, primed the kids and as we drew level...ROARED WITH FECKIN LAUGHTER!
I know this is an old post but it reminded me of a time my sister was visiting and we decided to go to Santa Fe, we had all our kids in the back of the van and an accident on the highway shut down all lanes going north. We had the windows down and just sat parked essentially. At one point a car load of teeanage (or maybe 20 year old) boys drove on the shoulder and had their fists out of the windows pumping up and down, like they were the winners. passing all of us waiting. Then the ambualance came along and there was no where for it to pass except the shoulder of the road. By the time the traffic started moving and we got to the scene of the accident we saw the four boys outside with their hands on the car with the police doing their job. I didn't realize how it had made my sister angry that they did that until she hung her head out the windo as we passed and yelled "You boys have a nice day!" and then laughed for about 10 minutes.
 
As an atheist and someone who does not believe in reincarnation I'm strictly in the "No" camp. For karma to work there would need to be an external agent, power, god etc. to punish / reward as necessary and I do not believe such a power exists. Saying that the "universe or cosmos" sorts these things out just doesn't wash with me. IMO it is wishful thinking for people who see a random, unfair world. I remember reading that most Nazis involved in the atrocities in the concentration camps were never brought to justice and presumably died in their sleep in their homes in South America or wherever they fled to. When people do see what they believe to be karma taking place it is merely coincidence, nothing more. As an earlier poster commented 'Karma, scharma'
I believe we are all more than the sum of our physical parts, but I do not believe there is a meddling deity of any kind. But I do beileive that the idea of karma is useful. Like someone else mentioned near the beginning of this thread. If you are in a mindset that everyone is an idiot except you, you will encounter lots of proof of that. Once you get a grip and accept that you are the problem in that situation and change your mind about others in relation to you, you will find many quite intelligent, pleasant people. It is about your perspective, what you pay attention to, which dragon you feed. And if you feed the angry dragon constantly it will eventually destroy you.
 
I believe we are all more than the sum of our physical parts, but I do not believe there is a meddling deity of any kind. But I do beileive that the idea of karma is useful. Like someone else mentioned near the beginning of this thread. If you are in a mindset that everyone is an idiot except you, you will encounter lots of proof of that. Once you get a grip and accept that you are the problem in that situation and change your mind about others in relation to you, you will find many quite intelligent, pleasant people. It is about your perspective, what you pay attention to, which dragon you feed. And if you feed the angry dragon constantly it will eventually destroy you.
I believe you should treat people with respect and in a decent manner because, in general, they will return the favour. But I don't see this as having anything to do with karma, it just makes sense in a crowded, complicated world. I know people who treat others well not because they expect something in return but because they are good people. I have also seen people who have continuously treated people badly and appear to have suffered the consequences of these actions, again I do not see this as karma in action but simply human nature in action when other people see these people for what they are and no longer wish to associate with them or give them support.
 
As an atheist and someone who does not believe in reincarnation I'm strictly in the "No" camp. For karma to work there would need to be an external agent, power, god etc. to punish / reward as necessary and I do not believe such a power exists. Saying that the "universe or cosmos" sorts these things out just doesn't wash with me. IMO it is wishful thinking for people who see a random, unfair world. I remember reading that most Nazis involved in the atrocities in the concentration camps were never brought to justice and presumably died in their sleep in their homes in South America or wherever they fled to. When people do see what they believe to be karma taking place it is merely coincidence, nothing more. As an earlier poster commented 'Karma, scharma'

Careful ! I suspect you entertain a typically Western misconception about karma, here.

Karma is a polysemic sanskrit word which can be translated as "act", "work", or "consequence" depending on the context. As such, it doesn't necessarily bear any notion of divinely imposed morality. Karma is simply the way "actions work out", in other words, how they bear fruit, in certain conditions.

It's akin to the laws of physics. Karma is simply the Indian a way to explain that you need causes and conditions to get consequences. When the causes and condition are met, their "natural" result happens, without any need for a demiurge to intervene and "judge".

All this "superior power" thing you describe comes not from Indian (Hindu, Buddhist, or Jain) culture. It's an application of the Judeo-Christian (or even Egyptian) belief in a weighing of souls. But this is not "karma". This is only an Eastern concept over which we super-impose our own native mythology. Karma is essentially amoral.

This being said, it is true that, even in the East, the concept of karma is often over-simplified to meet moral agendas. Some people speak of "bad karma" or "good karma", and of doing good actions to store "good karma".

In fact, karma is neither good nor bad. What is good or bad is the consequence of an action, from the point of view of the agent, but only when this action has borne fruit.

For instance, when someone says "binge drinking brings bad karma", what he really says is that drinking might feel good until you get hit by a car or until you get a liver cancer. Then, retrospectively it suddenly appears that too much alcohol was not such a good idea ! "Bad karma". "Murdering people" also becomes "bad karma" when you get to the unpleasant consequences of this behaviour. But as you point out, theses consequences might never happen, if the conditions are not met. A murderer who never crosses the way of a police officer may never pay the price of his harmful actions in his lifetime.

As some Buddhists say : You may possess a seed (cause). If you never plant it into the ground (condition 1) and water it (condition 2), it will never grow into a plant [that metaphor comes from the Salistamba Sutra].

So it's not : "I did this, I'll get that". It's "under certain conditions, if I do this, I'll get that". I cannot control the conditions, but I can control the cause, since I am its agent. So, in order to avoid "consequence X", I'll take care to refrain myself from committing "cause X". That's where morals cross the path of "karma". It's not a matter of godly legislation. It's more like a kind of "heuristics of fear" (but there I am the one who sticks a Western concept on an Asian word ...).
 
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I believe you should treat people with respect and in a decent manner because, in general, they will return the favour. But I don't see this as having anything to do with karma, it just makes sense in a crowded, complicated world. I know people who treat others well not because they expect something in return but because they are good people. I have also seen people who have continuously treated people badly and appear to have suffered the consequences of these actions, again I do not see this as karma in action but simply human nature in action when other people see these people for what they are and no longer wish to associate with them or give them support.
Exactly. I've described similar thoughts on'ere about the process: it's obvious that people who constantly treat others badly will eventually run out of friends.

So when they're old and frail, or middle-aged and ill, they're on their own.

This is something I have seen played out over the years.
 
Stanislav Rzhitsky was a mobilisation officer and captain of the Russian submarine Alrosa, stationed in the Black Sea. He was behind some of the most egregious atrocities of the war, including the missile attack on a residential area of Vinnytsia that killed at least 27 civilians.
On June 10th, Rzhitsky was on shore leave in Krasnodar and went for a morning run, only to be ambushed, shot 4 times and dying at the scene.
He must have thought his was a pretty safe number, as Ukraine has no palpable way of striking against a submarine, but he got his comeuppance, probably at the hands of anti-Kremlin Russian partisans.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/07/1...ficial-stanislav-rzhitsky-killed-in-krasnodar
 
I don't think so.

In my experience, the only time idiots get their comeuppance is because I have engineered it in some way and even then, the outcome doesn't always fit their crime- it just inconveniences them a bit.

Yes of course there will be cases where bad things happen to bad people, but they very often happen to good people too.

And anyway, even if they do eventually receive a visit from old Karma, it doesn't really make it up for the rest of us who have had our lives blighted by their behaviour for years in some cases.
 
I recall having a car full of kids after a Xmas shopping trip to Colchester. Pulling out of the car park I was faced with the daunting task of waiting for a break in the traffic and pulling onto a dual carriageway. After a few minutes there was a suitable break but as I started to edge out an oncoming car visibly accelerated to close the gap. As he passed the guy driving and the 10-12yo in the passenger seat of said car were looking directly at me and laughing....not realising that the traffic in front had come to a halt! Crash.
We went around the roundabout and got onto the carriageway in the opposite direction, I slowed the car, opened the window, primed the kids and as we drew level...ROARED WITH FECKIN LAUGHTER!
What an idiot. Him not you.

I may have already mentioned this somewhere so apologies if I have, but I was leaving the MiL's/Fil's drive one day.
I was turning right, where a few yards along is a mini roundabout with two exits, one at 11 o'clock and the other at one o'clock.
A car coming from my left was plenty far enough away, so I pulled out and he was one of those idiots who sped up to 'make a point' (of what I don't know).

I got to the roundabout, took the 11 o'clock exit and went on my way.
By the time the idiot got there, it just happened that a car was coming from the one o'clock and was going around to the same exit I had just taken.

Due to the idiot being, well, an idiot, he was now going too fast and nearly collided with the other car on the roundabout.
Lots of pipping and hand gestures were rightly given from the occupant of the car on the roundabout.

I was unaware of all this as I'd long gone, but the MiL and FiL had seen it all.
 
In the case of Stanislav Rzhitsky getting his just desserts in this manner, it also saves the civilised world time and money that would otherwise have to be spent on a war crimes tribunal.
 
the only time idiots get their comeuppance is because I have engineered it
Don't forget that;
"Revenge is a dish best served cold"
and
"Revenge is sweet"

So, what I'm saying is, is that Revenge is Ice Cream.

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I don't think so.

In my experience, the only time idiots get their comeuppance is because I have engineered it in some way and even then, the outcome doesn't always fit their crime- it just inconveniences them a bit.

Yes of course there will be cases where bad things happen to bad people, but they very often happen to good people too.

And anyway, even if they do eventually receive a visit from old Karma, it doesn't really make it up for the rest of us who have had our lives blighted by their behaviour for years in some cases.
It's all about the long game. People who treat others badly, or who just neglect people they should take care of, will eventually run out of goodwill from others. There's nothing magical about it.
 
It's all about the long game. People who treat others badly, or who just neglect people they should take care of, will eventually run out of goodwill from others. There's nothing magical about it.
I've seen this time and time again and I've guffawed when I hear the outcome. I don't think it's anything to do with divine intervention, purely natural.
 
It's all about the long game. People who treat others badly, or who just neglect people they should take care of, will eventually run out of goodwill from others. There's nothing magical about it.
In some cases yes, but not in others. Here's an example of what I mean;

For two years now, I've had to put up with an idiot neighbour a few doors down (the one whos dogs sometimes bark for 3-4 hours non-stop).
It's a bit of a weird set-up at the back of our house which I won't bore you with on here, but there is an overgrown path leading from the corner of the concrete path that goes around the back of the house(s), going up to where ours and next doors garden once were many years ago (it's a builders yard now).

About a month ago, this idiot decided to start dumping a load of rubbish on the bottom end of this old path ie right outside the corner of our house.

He has two cars and access to a works van so he could easily go to the tip and most of the stuff would go in a wheelie bin anyway.
Now I don't own the path, but I can see the rubbish from our windows.

If you tell any locals, as soon as you mention this guys name, they are not surprised at all by what he has done.

They are a large (thick) family, and that is my point. People like him will always have back-up from his dopy relatives while continuing to p**s the rest of us off, so he won't run out of goodwill from others as they will stick together in their idiocy.
 
In some cases yes, but not in others. Here's an example of what I mean;

For two years now, I've had to put up with an idiot neighbour a few doors down (the one whos dogs sometimes bark for 3-4 hours non-stop).
It's a bit of a weird set-up at the back of our house which I won't bore you with on here, but there is an overgrown path leading from the corner of the concrete path that goes around the back of the house(s), going up to where ours and next doors garden once were many years ago (it's a builders yard now).

About a month ago, this idiot decided to start dumping a load of rubbish on the bottom end of this old path ie right outside the corner of our house.

He has two cars and access to a works van so he could easily go to the tip and most of the stuff would go in a wheelie bin anyway.
Now I don't own the path, but I can see the rubbish from our windows.

If you tell any locals, as soon as you mention this guys name, they are not surprised at all by what he has done.

They are a large (thick) family, and that is my point. People like him will always have back-up from his dopy relatives while continuing to p**s the rest of us off, so he won't run out of goodwill from others as they will stick together in their idiocy.
Give it time. Does he smoke? :chuckle:
 
In some cases yes, but not in others. Here's an example of what I mean;

For two years now, I've had to put up with an idiot neighbour a few doors down (the one whos dogs sometimes bark for 3-4 hours non-stop).
It's a bit of a weird set-up at the back of our house which I won't bore you with on here, but there is an overgrown path leading from the corner of the concrete path that goes around the back of the house(s), going up to where ours and next doors garden once were many years ago (it's a builders yard now).

About a month ago, this idiot decided to start dumping a load of rubbish on the bottom end of this old path ie right outside the corner of our house.

He has two cars and access to a works van so he could easily go to the tip and most of the stuff would go in a wheelie bin anyway.
Now I don't own the path, but I can see the rubbish from our windows.

If you tell any locals, as soon as you mention this guys name, they are not surprised at all by what he has done.

They are a large (thick) family, and that is my point. People like him will always have back-up from his dopy relatives while continuing to p**s the rest of us off, so he won't run out of goodwill from others as they will stick together in their idiocy.
Unfortunately this what goes round comes round thing can take a long time Floyd. Take heart in the fact that one day he will piss the wrong person off and he will come a terrible cropper. It's inevitable but not much consolation at the mo I agree. I'm waiting for something similar to happen to a neighbour of mine and I'm 100% positive it will happen.
 
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