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Really? I presumed it would be men who were better suited, purely down to being bigger.
I was told by my friend from Lagos that in an emergency. Flood, storms, droughts. They always send the women out because they generally survive better then the men. Also if they have their own milk supply even better.
 
Women did a lot more in the primal times too both men and women stuff. Before those times women didn't do much as they were seen as the life bringers, which made them holy and were lavished by their male counterparts.
 
I
I dunno. But I also don't know if Valya had more than one sleeping bag on hand.
Would imagine that all 7 of the party would have had sleeping bags and it wouldnt have taken much to retrieve them, even the one from the guides bag, which is where she got the compass etc
 
I Would imagine that all 7 of the party would have had sleeping bags and it wouldnt have taken much to retrieve them, even the one from the guides bag, which is where she got the compass etc
Well I read a translation of retellings of the incidents in Valya's words. Тайна гибели группы Коровиной: Хамар-Дабан - бурятский перевал Дятлова - Интересные факты (i-fakt.ru)
Valentina Utochenko said:
Sasha fell, blood came from his ears, foam came from his mouth. With him remained Lyudmila Ivanovna Korovina, the elder appointed Denis, said to go down as low as possible, but in the woods not to enter, then began to fall and roll on the ground guys Vika, Tanya, Timur - symptoms like a suffocating man, Denis said - quickly take the most necessary from backpacks and running down, bent over the backpack, pulled the sleeping bag, raised his head Denis fell and broke his head but he broke free and ran away. Running down without letting the sleeping bag out of her hands.

I spent the night under a boulder hiding with my head sleeping bag, it was terrible, on the edge of the forest from the hurricane trees fell, in the morning the wind died down, more than dawned rose to the scene of the tragedy, Lyudmila Ivanovna was still alive but could hardly move, showed in what direction Valais to go out and disconnected, Valya closed the children's eyes, packed things, found a compass and went ...
This is not an exact translation and certain parts are a bit confusing. But the "disconnected" bit? the Russian word means she stopped responding to Valya. It seems obvious to me that Valya thinks she's dead. Also... Valya doesn't say where she got the compass. she could have had one of her own. It's pretty common in hiking groups for everyone to have a compass.
 
Well I read a translation of retellings of the incidents in Valya's words. Тайна гибели группы Коровиной: Хамар-Дабан - бурятский перевал Дятлова - Интересные факты (i-fakt.ru)
This is not an exact translation and certain parts are a bit confusing. But the "disconnected" bit? the Russian word means she stopped responding to Valya. It seems obvious to me that Valya thinks she's dead. Also... Valya doesn't say where she got the compass. she could have had one of her own. It's pretty common in hiking groups for everyone to have a compass.
This is a direct translation from Valyas account
'
'we quickly take the most necessary from the backpacks'

,' in the morning the wind died down, more or less dawn rose to the scene of the tragedy, Lyudmila Ivanovna was still alive but could no longer move, showed in which direction Valya to go and passed out, Valya closed her eyes to the guys, packed her things, found a compass and went ...'

Источник: https://i-fakt.ru

Lyudmila Ivanovna was still alive when Valya left, and she knew were the groups bags were in order to 'take most necessary' items from them the previous night.
So my question remains, why didnt Valya try to do something to help Lyudmilla ie wrap one or more of the groups sleeping bags around her?

FYI
A few bad translations refer to her closing the eyes of the dead, when what she actually says is she closed HER eyes TO the dead
 
This is a direct translation from Valyas account
'
'we quickly take the most necessary from the backpacks'

,' in the morning the wind died down, more or less dawn rose to the scene of the tragedy, Lyudmila Ivanovna was still alive but could no longer move, showed in which direction Valya to go and passed out, Valya closed her eyes to the guys, packed her things, found a compass and went ...'

Источник: https://i-fakt.ru

Lyudmila Ivanovna was still alive when Valya left, and she knew were the groups bags were in order to 'take most necessary' items from them the previous night.
So my question remains, why didnt Valya try to do something to help Lyudmilla ie wrap one or more of the groups sleeping bags around her?

FYI
A few bad translations refer to her closing the eyes of the dead, when what she actually says is she closed HER eyes TO the dead
I don't think "passed out" is necessarily correct. The Russian word got auto-translated as "disconnected" when I did it because it's a term that means Lyudmila became unresponsive. In some contexts "passed out" or "blacked out" might be correct, but the context here makes it seem like Valya thought Lyudmila was dead.

Also Valya mentions that there was a wind storm that night and several trees got knocked over.
along the edge of the forest from the storm the trees were falling, in the morning the wind subsided,
even if Valya had known where the bags were the previous evening, there's no way to be sure they were still in the same places.

Also I don't see any indication that Valya had rummaged through anyone's bag except her own. Denis used a plural form. But this part is before Denis succumbs and Denis was apparently talking about his own pack and Valya's not the group as a whole. The short part when she talks about actually rummaging seems like she's taking things from her own pack(and uses the singular form of backpack). The part about "most necessary" stuff was probably lightening the load in her pack so she could get back to civilization as fast as possible.

Also it's kinda pointless to micro analyze this when the translations were have are not 100% accurate and also based on a short summarized version of events that didn't ever have that level of detail.
 
I don't think "passed out" is necessarily correct. The Russian word got auto-translated as "disconnected" when I did it because it's a term that means Lyudmila became unresponsive. In some contexts "passed out" or "blacked out" might be correct, but the context here makes it seem like Valya thought Lyudmila was dead.

Also Valya mentions that there was a wind storm that night and several trees got knocked over.

even if Valya had known where the bags were the previous evening, there's no way to be sure they were still in the same places.

Also I don't see any indication that Valya had rummaged through anyone's bag except her own. Denis used a plural form. But this part is before Denis succumbs and Denis was apparently talking about his own pack and Valya's not the group as a whole. The short part when she talks about actually rummaging seems like she's taking things from her own pack(and uses the singular form of backpack). The part about "most necessary" stuff was probably lightening the load in her pack so she could get back to civilization as fast as possible.

Also it's kinda pointless to micro analyze this when the translations were have are not 100% accurate and also based on a short summarized version of events that didn't ever have that level of detail.
Just a couple of points, and some quotes from the original article
The reports of 'trees falling like matchsticks is not supported by the team retreaving the bodies.
'Livinsky, however, claims that when their group of rescuers was near the scene, no special felling was noticed. And according to Valentina, the hurricane dropped trees like matches.'

Also from the original article it is stated that items were taken from Lyudmillas backpack by Valya.
'After collecting food and taking a map in the manager's things, on August 6, Valentina went in search of rescue'

But as you say the accounts are sketchy and the translations not always reliable, just a heads up, google translate is really bad with cyrillic, try and find a kindly Russian speaker :)
 
Daily Mail 6th of February 2021
Russia tested in 1961 a 50 megaton nuclear bomb in the Arctic Circle
Largest man made explosion in history 3,333 times more destructive then
The blast of Horishima . The flash was seen in Norway. Shockwave caused
A 5.0 magnitude Earthquake and radiation fell over Scandinavia.

This was released by Russia's Nuclear Energy Agency. So what hasn't been released on other nuclear tests through the years. Radiation could of been a key factor in this case and others like The Dyatlov Pass Incident.
 
Daily Mail 6th of February 2021
Russia tested in 1961 a 50 megaton nuclear bomb in the Arctic Circle
Largest man made explosion in history 3,333 times more destructive then
The blast of Horishima . The flash was seen in Norway. Shockwave caused
A 5.0 magnitude Earthquake and radiation fell over Scandinavia.
The Tsar Bomba detonation has been common knowledge since shortly after it occurred. The only extra information the Daily Mail has included in this article is a movie clip of the detonation, which I must admit is fascinating.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eases-never-seen-footage-Tsar-Bomba-test.html
 
The Tsar Bomba detonation has been common knowledge since shortly after it occurred. The only extra information the Daily Mail has included in this article is a movie clip of the detonation, which I must admit is fascinating.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eases-never-seen-footage-Tsar-Bomba-test.html
Interesting. Is there a transcript of what the narrator is saying? I was able to understand a few parts of it (I know a little bit of Russian, but not conversational) and got the general idea he was describing what happened, but can't be sure of the specifics.
 
Curiously enough there was an American spy plane close enough to the detonation to see it; so it could be said that the explosion was known about by the West immediately.
 
Curiously enough there was an American spy plane close enough to the detonation to see it; so it could be said that the explosion was known about by the West immediately.
Many years ago I saw a documentary on TV that talked about it and may have had that video. I know it had A video, but I'm not sure what the video source was.
 
Just a couple of points, and some quotes from the original article
The reports of 'trees falling like matchsticks is not supported by the team retreaving the bodies.
'Livinsky, however, claims that when their group of rescuers was near the scene, no special felling was noticed. And according to Valentina, the hurricane dropped trees like matches.'
Pondering this again I realized something I missed the first time. When Valya was talking about wind and trees falling... she's talking about SOUND, and not SEEING things happen. She actually says that she bundled up with her face inside her sleeping bag. She also talks about how terrifying it was that night alone in the woods huddled next to a boulder as the only source of shelter. It was literally a dark and stormy night and she's hiding in the only shelter she can find with her head tucked inside the sleeping bag to avoid the wind. I'm not sure any of what she said about that should be taken literally.

Oh yeah, there was a short bit I noticed that seems to substantiate the idea she was delirious at the time. The people who found her had some interesting things to say about how she acted, and yeah... not normal. IIRC the description was like a shell shocked person.

Sooo...
1: we know they harvested and ate herbs that they may or may not have correctly identified.

2: Valya has mentioned in interviews that she finds it hard to remember those events. I'm not sure why this would be, but side effect of herbs?

3: Then we have the description of her mental state by the people who found her.

Hmmm.... Maybe if the whole accidental poisoning idea is true the substance/s had more of a psychological effect than physical? Valya lived, but... it seems like the may have been delirious or something for most of the event.
 
Pondering this again I realized something I missed the first time. When Valya was talking about wind and trees falling... she's talking about SOUND, and not SEEING things happen. She actually says that she bundled up with her face inside her sleeping bag. She also talks about how terrifying it was that night alone in the woods huddled next to a boulder as the only source of shelter. It was literally a dark and stormy night and she's hiding in the only shelter she can find with her head tucked inside the sleeping bag to avoid the wind. I'm not sure any of what she said about that should be taken literally.

Oh yeah, there was a short bit I noticed that seems to substantiate the idea she was delirious at the time. The people who found her had some interesting things to say about how she acted, and yeah... not normal. IIRC the description was like a shell shocked person.

Sooo...
1: we know they harvested and ate herbs that they may or may not have correctly identified.

2: Valya has mentioned in interviews that she finds it hard to remember those events. I'm not sure why this would be, but side effect of herbs?

3: Then we have the description of her mental state by the people who found her.

Hmmm.... Maybe if the whole accidental poisoning idea is true the substance/s had more of a psychological effect than physical? Valya lived, but... it seems like the may have been delirious or something for most of the event.
I would agree she was definately suffering from shock and probably exposure when she was found by the kayakers
 
... Radiation could of been a key factor in this case and others like The Dyatlov Pass Incident.

The USSR / Russian Federation was subject to internationally agreed and enforced monitoring of nuclear tests at the time of this incident. The hikers' fatal trip occurred in August 1993. There hadn't been a Soviet / Russian nuclear test since 1990. If there is a conceivable connection between this tragedy and radiation, it didn't involve a contemporary or recent test.

However ...

The young hikers in the party came from Petropavlovsk-Kazakh (i.e., Petropavl / Petropavlovsk) - a city in northern Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan was the region in which many Soviet nuclear tests had been conducted. If there's a nuclear testing related connection, it would most probably have involved the trekkers' home rather than the quite distant area in which they hiked and died.
 
... Hmmm.... Maybe if the whole accidental poisoning idea is true the substance/s had more of a psychological effect than physical? Valya lived, but... it seems like the may have been delirious or something for most of the event.

Traumatic shock at the sudden onset of deaths, compounded by Valya's dismal return to the scene the following day before departing alone to seek help, is plenty enough to cause an extended period of 'shell shock'. One must also bear in mind she was subject to the same exhaustion and malnutrition that had affected the others, and the effects of shock would be magnified by her weakened state.

Having said that ... There's still room to speculate there was something else going on that explains the sudden near-simultaneous individual collapses with severe symptoms.

One of the accounts linked earlier in this thread mentions Valya chalked her survival up to being in better physical condition than the others. I suppose that's possible, but the various accounts don't describe the individuals in enough detail to evaluate this angle.

There's another angle one might consider besides accidental poisoning - some form of infectious disease. The party had traveled quite a distance to undertake the trek. They were presumably all together on the excursion. It's conceivable they were all exposed to some pathogen which incubated until they'd spent an extremely stressful several days on the trail and it pounced on their exhausted and malnourished bodies.

With regard to both relative physical fitness and Valya's lack of extreme symptoms the only clues that could illuminate the mystery would be facts that distinguished Valya from the others, and Valya has elected to not talk about the incident.
 
There's another angle one might consider besides accidental poisoning - some form of infectious disease. The party had traveled quite a distance to undertake the trek. They were presumably all together on the excursion. It's conceivable they were all exposed to some pathogen which incubated until they'd spent an extremely stressful several days on the trail and it pounced on their exhausted and malnourished bodies.
This is possible, but it is stated that they travelled most, if not all the way to their departure point, with another group of hikers, so, i would imagine, that pathogen would have infected the other group also, it might well have done, but to a lesser degree, we just dont have any contemporary evidence of this happening.
 
Traumatic shock at the sudden onset of deaths, compounded by Valya's dismal return to the scene the following day before departing alone to seek help, is plenty enough to cause an extended period of 'shell shock'. One must also bear in mind she was subject to the same exhaustion and malnutrition that had affected the others, and the effects of shock would be magnified by her weakened state.

Having said that ... There's still room to speculate there was something else going on that explains the sudden near-simultaneous individual collapses with severe symptoms.

One of the accounts linked earlier in this thread mentions Valya chalked her survival up to being in better physical condition than the others. I suppose that's possible, but the various accounts don't describe the individuals in enough detail to evaluate this angle.

There's another angle one might consider besides accidental poisoning - some form of infectious disease. The party had traveled quite a distance to undertake the trek. They were presumably all together on the excursion. It's conceivable they were all exposed to some pathogen which incubated until they'd spent an extremely stressful several days on the trail and it pounced on their exhausted and malnourished bodies.

With regard to both relative physical fitness and Valya's lack of extreme symptoms the only clues that could illuminate the mystery would be facts that distinguished Valya from the others, and Valya has elected to not talk about the incident.
Hmm perhaps it's possible that when Valya described herself as in better condition that this was an assessment of the performance of the members of the group as they were hiking? Maybe she was simply.. less tired?

As for the disease idea, it's possible. But it would need to be an unusual symptom of whatever disease. Otherwise you have the question "why didn't this happen to more people?"
 
I have come across what seems to be a recent YouTube upload featuring this case and wondered if it might be of interest:

WORSE THAN DYATLOV PASS: The Korovina group incident

 
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