Kids Today

Yithian

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I saw the story on Reddit and stopped the video as soon as I realised what I was about to see. I also read a number of explanations for the youths' actions, but few rang true: this is barbarism with the stench of something rotten in society; in our hearts we all know where it has come from, but we lack the collective will to take the actions to end it.
 

EnolaGaia

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I disagree. Most people would find the video and the teenagers' actions unacceptable.
I'm a bit confused, 'Scarge ... :Conf2:

What exactly is it with which you're disagreeing? It strikes me that both you and Yithian find the teens' actions unacceptable. Or were you responding to someone else or some other aspect / angle?
 

Swifty

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I'm a bit confused, 'Scarge ... :Conf2:

What exactly is it with which you're disagreeing? It strikes me that both you and Yithian find the teens' actions unacceptable. Or were you responding to someone else or some other aspect / angle?
Without being Skargy's spokesman or anything, I think she's talking about the last line in Yith's post on this matter, that "we lack the collective will to take the actions to end it" .. I'd have to agree if that's what she means that this isn't true of everyone, there's still loads of good Samaritans about, I'm not going to watch a film of five girls giggling at a man drowning either though.
 

Quake42

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I saw the story on Reddit and stopped the video as soon as I realised what I was about to see. I also read a number of explanations for the youths' actions, but few rang true: this is barbarism with the stench of something rotten in society; in our hearts we all know where it has come from, but we lack the collective will to take the actions to end it.
Youth culture does indeed seem to have taken a turn for the worse. See also the current London fad of attacking people from mopeds - sometimes with acid. Every generation moans that the one below them is less polite and more inclined to poor behaviour but this goes way beyond that.

Do we lack the collective will to take actions to end this toxic culture? Possibly, but I think it is more the case that no one knows what we would need to do.
 

GNC

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Remember you're always going to hear the worst behaviour on the news, otherwise it wouldn't be on the news.
 

Mythopoeika

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Youth culture does indeed seem to have taken a turn for the worse. See also the current London fad of attacking people from mopeds - sometimes with acid. Every generation moans that the one below them is less polite and more inclined to poor behaviour but this goes way beyond that.

Do we lack the collective will to take actions to end this toxic culture? Possibly, but I think it is more the case that no one knows what we would need to do.
Back to the 'old days'.
Parents or prospective parents need to do parenting courses to teach them the correct way to bring up kids.
Allow parents to use old-fashioned punishment methods (within reason). A smack or a clip round the ear, nothing more than that. A good old talking-to. A lecture on responsibilities, etc.
Yeah, I know you'll all disagree with me.
 

Spudrick68

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WTF is wrong with a newspaper that shows a video clip like that? I haven't even clicked on the link, never mind the video. And what is wrong with people who want to watch it? the whole episode is sad and depressing for society beyond belief.
 

Quake42

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Back to the 'old days'.
Parents or prospective parents need to do parenting courses to teach them the correct way to bring up kids.
Allow parents to use old-fashioned punishment methods (within reason). A smack or a clip round the ear, nothing more than that. A good old talking-to. A lecture on responsibilities, etc.
Yeah, I know you'll all disagree with me.
Not disagreeing, but I think a big party of the issue is the decline of the traditional family unit - especially in urban areas. Young people, particularly young men, benefit from a male role model and father figure and that is simply absent in a lot of these kids' lives.
 
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Not disagreeing, but I think a big party of the issue is the decline of the traditional family unit - especially in urban areas. Young people, particularly young men, benefit from a male role model and father figure and that is simply absent in a lot of these kids' lives.
That seems probable. I expect someone has done some work on it, the question would be if they've then compensated for the characteristics of the absent father and the genetic component of the behaviour of the estranged sons.

In general though, I think you're right, and lacking an 'in-house' positive role model, peer groups become over represented as a role models and one can only guess at the effect of the media borne role models with their incessant egoism and utterly amoral behaviour. I say 'guess', we know really.
 

Quake42

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That seems probable. I expect someone has done some work on it, the question would be if they've then compensated for the characteristics of the absent father and the genetic component of the behaviour of the estranged sons.

In general though, I think you're right, and lacking an 'in-house' positive role model, peer groups become over represented as a role models and one can only guess at the effect of the media borne role models with their incessant egoism and utterly amoral behaviour. I say 'guess', we know really.
Yes. Absence of positive male role models, gangsta culture and ineffective policing. Toxic combination for da Yoof.
 

Swifty

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Yes. Absence of positive male role models, gangsta culture and ineffective policing. Toxic combination for da Yoof.
I agree although, at the same time, I've met many strong Mums that would kick off at their kids if they didn't behave ... or at anyone who was unfair to their kids, my Mum being one of them.
 

dreeness .

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Questions...

The victim was not a strong swimmer (QED). Why was he so far from the bank of the pond?

Is the pond in question a common swimming venue?

What was the nature of the victim's reported disability?

What was the victim wearing when he drowned?

Why were the teenagers there?
 
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Probably not the best thing he had done!

A 15-year-old boy has admitted tipping over a car with a fork-lift truck while armed with an air rifle.

A police helicopter was scrambled when reports emerged of a truck "driving erratically" around Hazel Gardens in Sonning Common in September last year.

The boy told Oxford Magistrates' Court court: "It probably wasn't the best thing to have done."

He admitted aggravated vehicle taking, possessing an unloaded firearm, and careless driving. ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-40728251
 
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Exploitation.

A video about a fighting club for children in southwest Sichuan province in China has ignited discussion on the nation's online message boards.

The short documentary from Pear Video, a popular video site in China, introduces the Enbo Fight Club in the city of Chengdu, which trains more than 400 young fighters - many of whom are orphans - in mixed martial arts (MMA).

The video shows two 12-year-old boys fighting each other in a caged arena surrounded by a crowd. Later in the video, their coach says the club manages the children's money from the fights.

In an interview, the founder of the club says he is sent orphaned and 'left-behind' children by the Civil Affairs Bureau. Children who do not meet the club's high standards are sent back to the care of the state. ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-40705752
 

EnolaGaia

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Good points - I'd been wondering about the same sort of factoids about this incident ... Here's a summary of what I've gleaned from the myriad news articles, etc.

The victim was not a strong swimmer (QED). Why was he so far from the bank of the pond?
It may have been a spur-of-the-moment suicide attempt. As I piece it together, he'd had some sort of altercation / argument with a fiancee at his home. According to the accounts he demanded she leave, she did, and he flounced out almost immediately thereafter.

I've seen one account that specifically stated the time lapse between his leaving the home / scene of the argument and entering the water was only on the order of 10 - 15 minutes.

Is the pond in question a common swimming venue?
He drowned in a retention pond - i.e., a pond designed to help with water (e.g., runoff) management. The pond was located in a 'park'. Such ponds are often simply dual purpose - landscaping niceties that have a functional value. Based on similar park-based retention ponds in my experience, I suspect it wasn't intended to be a swimming hole.

What was the nature of the victim's reported disability?
The most specific allusions I've found say he used a cane. He apparently had multiple 'priors' involving driving and / or traffic accident incidents, so it may be that he had a lingering / permanent physical injury. FWIW he also had priors regarding coke possession (an amount large enough to fall under the 'intent to resell' statutes) and one or more incidents involving battery (including striking uniformed EMT or police personnel). So there may have been psych / emotional issues as well.

What was the victim wearing when he drowned?
Unknown. I can't tell from the teens' video. Multiple news sources claim there was visual-only surveillance video of the scene, but I've not seen it posted online. Those that mention the surveillance video state authorities had reviewed it, and there was no indication Dunn was pushed or coerced into the water. I'd previously (cynically) wondered if there could have been a causal connection between the teens' presence and his ending up in the pond, but apparently there wasn't.

Why were the teenagers there?
All accounts that bother to address this point claim the teens were just hanging out in the park and smoking weed.
 

dreeness .

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All good clean fun?


Just for a moment, flip the script.

Imagine an 8 year old boy, performing an exaggerated caricature of a hypersexualized, scantily-clad adult male heterosexual, in a nightclub. Dressed in a skimpy little fireman or policeman costume, or something similar. And intended to amaze and delight an audience of adult female heterosexuals.

An 8 year old boy.

Would that seem acceptable, by any stretch of the imagination?
 

stu neville

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I agree although, at the same time, I've met many strong Mums that would kick off at their kids if they didn't behave ... or at anyone who was unfair to their kids, my Mum being one of them.
Very true, but deeper than that they don't have an older role model who, for want of a better phrase, can teach them how to behave like a man. The limits you put on banter, knowing how to control your temper, etc. Men in a purely male context are different from in a mixed one (as are women, obviously) and if there's no guidance of how that dynamic should work it can go very Lord of the Flies really quick.

Same goes with teenage girls. A good friend of mine was a single father to two girls from when they were both under ten (he's a widower) until they went off to Uni and found adolescence very hard to deal with, for all of the obvious reasons but also because he had no context on which to base it: he couldn't relate to all that they were going through, how they felt, etc. Fortunately his sister - their aunt - lived quite close by and helped out a lot, but he felt utterly out of his depth. Both turned out really well though :).
 
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No. No, it wouldn't, and one concern about the inclusion of LGBT material in the curriculum for younger and younger children is just that. Early sexualisation under the guise of diversity and inclusion.
It's time to call it this and refute the diversity argument. ANY early sexualisation is inappropriate at best and frankly I'm inclined ask searching questions about those that support it.
 

rynner2

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Once the 50th anniversary of legalising being gay has receded, perhaps all the banging on about LGBT issues will decrease.

But for now the usual suspects eg the Guardian, and even the BBC, are having a field day!

The beeb has specially commissioned progs on the subject. And I recently caught a cop show where a newly pregnant woman cop goes to give the happy news to her father, who lives with his male partner: both together "We're going to be Grandads!"
 
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No. No, it wouldn't, and one concern about the inclusion of LGBT material in the curriculum for younger and younger children is just that. Early sexualisation under the guise of diversity and inclusion.
It's time to call it this and refute the diversity argument. ANY early sexualisation is inappropriate at best and frankly I'm inclined ask searching questions about those that support it.
Indeed, early sexualisation is something to be avoided. But the idea that there is something wrong with being LGBT should also be avoided and I don't think either of you were suggesting that.

Increasingly schoolchildren are coming from Lesbian/Gay families so questions will arise about this among pupils from traditional families. Its important that teachers are trained to deal with this in a sensitive manner. That should not include encouraging kids to be gender fluid and it doesn't have to include actual sex education.

I'm bisexual and I think i first started wonder about my sexuality around puberty but other LGBT people I know say they had inklings much earlier. I don't know what the correct age for actual sex education to begin is but when any sex education is introduced then it shouldn't stigmatise LGBTs. But nothing wrong with saying that approx 95% of people are straight.
 
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