• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Knights Templar Thread

A

Anonymous

Guest
Knights Templar/Freemasonry

What I'm looking for is the "definitive" (if there is such a thing) books on the Knights Templar, Freemasonry or other secret societies. Can anyone make some recommendations? What I'm after are those books which are not sensationalist, i.e. bollocks-free, and well respected regarding the subjects above.

Thanks.
 
The Templars - Piers Paul Read - Weidenfeld & Nicholson - ISBN 0 - 297 - 84267 - 6
 
How about joining the Freemasons? then make up your own mind
 
surely the point of these orders is to follow orders (not make up your own mind)!

For the Masons I can recommend the Brotherhood by Steven Knight and A White's Secret traditions of freemasonry.
 
Freemasonry

If you would like to talk about Freemasonry and how to gain
information on the subject, contact me at my email address
reserved for such inquiries and queries:

[email protected]

I will be more that happy to answer as many of your questions
as possible.

E. D. Brewton

:)
 
For a sane scholarly overview of the Templars, I highly recommend 'The New Knighthood' by Malcolm Barber.
 
Jacques de Molay???????

After reading the website it gave 2 conflicting opinions on Jacques de Molay, the Pope pardoning the Knights Templar story said he was burnt at the stake and the Turin Shroud story says that he was crucified. I was just wondering which one was true.
As this would disprove one story, because a burnt body cannot be wrapped in a shroud and leave such a good print the cloth

Cheers
Chopstix
 
Jaques de Molay was tortured upon arrest in 1307 - this is when he was crucified.

He was not actually killed at this point and was put in prison for a few years.

At a later stage he recanted his confessions and was then burned at the stake.

So, he was burned to death but still could be the figure on the Turin Shroud.
 
Is there any truth in the tale, that when Louis XVI had been executed in the French Revolution, as his head hit the ground somebody from the crowd shouted
'The death of Jacques de Molay has been avenged'
(Talk about bearing grudges;) )
 
It would be great if we can cover as much as possible on this topic. I have been thinking long and hard for a way to start it and I have settled on just opening it and asking a question.

Does anybody else live near an area of Templar activity?

I live in Irvine and Kilwinning and I am honoured to have been born, brought up and educated within a walk away from Kilwinning Abbey (and the mother lodge)

The town of Irvine had at least 16-20 Templar Tenements in and around the royal burgh boundry.

My house in Irvine is actually situated in a medieval estate owned by the Templar families. Indeed, it was still used by freemasons shortly BEFORE the foundation of the Scottish Grand Lodge. The worlds oldest masonic jewel comes from my estate. It was gifted to the mother lodge in 1734 and was eventually cased in old timbers from Kilwinning Abbey roof.

So, does anybody else live near a hotbed of Templar activity?

P.S The thread hopefully will deal with much more than this query.
the lairds of my estate were the keepers of the Schaw Statutes (the oldest masonic rules of the order)
 
I grew up 4 miles from a Village called Templecombe in Somerset - as its name suggested, it used to be a Templar settlement.

There was a Time Team programme there a couple of years ago. A local teacher owned a house which he believed contained parts of an original Templar building. The Time Team people showed that the boundary of the Templar settlement ran outside of his property and his house had nothing older then 16th Century. Most amusing.
 
Ha ha!:D Poor sod!

Was the rest of the dig successful though?

Did they find some decent remains of Templar occupation or were they aiming at something else.

I dont remember seeing that episode.....I hate that!:)
 
Yes - they found occupation that would fit with the type and timing of Templar activity. It was just that the external boundary to the settlement did not contain this blokes house.

After the programme, I remember seeing in a local paper, that he complained at the lack of skill and judgement of the Time Team people and refused to believe that his house did not contain Templar remains.

I am not 100% sure on this - but I seem to remember that the impression the programme gave was that Templecombe was not quite as important or large a Templar site as originally thought. Previously, it was believed to be one of the major sites in the UK.

A quick Google brought up this information

http://www.ancientquest.com/templarsites/engl-sw/somerset/003-index-templecombe.shtml
 
I actually have a saved copy of that link in my notes.

I know that it is no longer looked at as one of the most important in Britain but it was the only preceptory in Somerset. As such, it becomes locally important and no less fascinating.

When I am in Irvine I am aware that I am in a less important area of Templar activity compared to that of Kilwinning. However the wealth of activity is still astounding. The graveyards are full of Templar and masonic imagery and many of the most notable templar families have members buried in them. My estate is on Templar land but I know the boundries of the original buildings and they are not under my house. There is the constant promise of a find in the soil because my land has never been excavated.
It has'nt even been trenched for the foundation of modern housing. It has lain un-disturbed for over a thousand years. Robert the Bruce used to own it and rented it to Templar descendants.

I am happy with my lot and so should the other guy.
 
As much as I enjoy Time Team, I've read a great deal of criticism about its activities and theories so much so, I believe in academic circles its nicknamed "Tame Team".

Good to see the Templars on the board - should be more!
 
I have many criticisms of the time team myself.

Remember when they allowed Bill Oddie to jump into a delicate, artifact filled trench and he landed with all his weight on the surfsce that was being studied. He promptly bent over and yanked a femur (if memory serves) out of the ground and waved it about. I thought "strange behavior for a bird-watcher"

When the second half of the show started they told us that he had left.

I remember one episode when they were up in Islay studying the Lords of the Isles (but found more stone age stuff) and they found an obsidian or pyrite mirror. A woman (who remained totally nameless) discovered it and it became her project. She spent the three days in the lab cleaning it and studying it and gazing into its reflective surface. Carenza Lewis comes along and grabs it out of her hand. After wondering at it she says "so I am the first person to look into this mirror in 3000 years......"

The poor woman who had been cleaning it said nothing and recieved no credit.

I hate that shit........:mad:

Anyhoo, I started a thread about the Templars a while back and have pulled some of my info from it.........

There are two important facts that has been strangely overlooked
by the current influx of Templar/Masonic history of recent years.

It has been suggested, and evidence does support, that the Templars fled, in their fleets, from the port of La Rochelle. It is stated that they fled to Portugal and Scotland. Scotland was governed by an excommunicate king, (Bruce), which meant that papel rule did not feature and Scotland would become a haven for excommunicate malignants. Any Christian country would have had the right to launch a crusade against the Scots.

However, (and heres the first point that has been missed), when the Templars were at the hight of their power, they recieved soldiers and other men from all over western europe, including Scotland. They were already living and operating in Scotland and their military methods were ours to use.

This would mean that the Templar army would be comprised of people from all countries in the "civilised west".

To flee a country to return home is not as juicy as fleeing home and wandering aimlessly across the globe.

Finally, and this is a clincher, when the Templars were at their most powerful, be it banking for europes kings or attempting to set up a principality of their own, they were granted the "free gifts" that todays rich celebrities recieve.

"They were awarded land in all the Royal Burghs in Scotland.
They lived here for nearly two hundred years!!!!!!!!"


I have evidence that their families enjoyed a peaceful future in Scotland long after the disolution of their order elswhere.

Papel writ did not operate here so why would they vanish from their mansions and their manors.........they did'nt.

Remember that when we are talking about the Templars and the origins of freemasonry (whether it is templar or not) we are talking about entirely catholic enterprises.
 
Haha dont ask the metal dectorists if they like Time Team as I have heard them complaing that they never received due credit as well.

Well the Templar decendents, familes and members would have been allowed (but probably not welcome) to live anywhere in europe due to the papal bull being retracted later on, although most of their holdings had been stolen by that time :(

Indeed most of them probably did flee to the UK, particularly Scotland, due to the popes influnce being negligable here & the excommunication etc
 
Exactly!

But remember that they already lived here. It was not just a contingent of fleeing soldiers and dogsbodies. They were already established here.

In Scotland their lands were not stolen but handed over to the Hospitallers. There is plently of evidence (most of which I cant disclose) that the holdings were actually retained by the Templar Families.
 
P.S They also retained their rights, lands and welcoming commitees in Portugal. At present I am drinking some Port from the Portugese land owned by the St. Clairs of old.
 
Two things that interest me about the templars are the fact that most of their land was turned over to the Knights Hospitallers, I've read numerous sources that the Templars had merged within Hospitallers anyway. (Which seems strange since the Hospitallers and Templars were at odds with each others ideals(?))

The other mystery is the peasant's revolt, I've seen various theories again, (most of them not referenced) stating that Peasant's Revolt could have been a Templar/Early Freemason Society instigated uprising. Clues mentioned include Watt Tyler - Tyler is not a word that appears in the English Dictionary but appears in Freemasonary rituals - A great deal of Hospitaller property was attacked and destroyed by the uprisers in possible revenge for the crossover the property?

These are theories that I don't readily subscribe to and would like to know the thoughts of other researchers..

"Another mystery was the concentrated and especially vicious attacks on the religious order of the Knights Hospitaller of St. John, now known as the Knights of Malta. Not only did the rebels seek out their properties for vandalism and fire, but their Prior was dragged from the Tower of London to have his head struck off and placed on London Bridge, to the delight of the cheering mob. One captured rebel leader, when asked the reasons for the revolt, had said, "First, and above all...the destruction of the Hospitallers." Mr. Robinson wondered what kind of secret society could have had such special hatred as one of its primary purposes." J Robinson "Born in Blood"
 
Tyler merely refers to the Occupation of "Tyler-the man who works on the roofs with tiles"

It is found in the dictionary and is part of masonic lore simply because it is one of the trades. All the normal rules and occupations and terms became ritualised later on.

My own feelings about the peasant revolt reflect your own and you must be aware that the original stone-masons, who were becoming very common and highly important in the new Norman world of Stone Building (before them we were building with wood) were becoming organised.

After a while they became aware of problems and holes in the profession and they formed the first trade union. This union began writting many useful and respectful rules like "no master should take work away from another" and "protective gloves to be worn at all times"

The peasants revolt is similar in that there was attempts to unite the common man and the trades. A trade union!

It is highly possible that the Templars where within the peasants revolt and that is why the Hospitallers were attacked.

Equally though, it could be that the Hospitallers were abusing the peasants children or stealing land and money from them. It is possible that the Templars had done the same but they were not prominant in English society at that time. The hospitallers are still on the go (Knights of Malta)

It was said that the contingent of Templar Knights on the field of Bannockburn was the body that helped us win. In actual fact we were winning the whole thing long before the "mysterious little folk" came from the trees. (little folk- meaning the status of their profession rather than their stature)

As I have said before, the Templars in Scotland were comprised of trained scots who had lived and operated here anyway. If they were present at Bannockburn, then they would have been infused as part of our overall army.
 
A Quick Query

OK, here goes the "Eljubbo Disclaimer": I'm an entusiastic amateur when it comes to all things fortean, and as such the Knights Templar have long held fascination for me with all the "devil worshipping, idolatrous"happenings and generally other weird stuff (like them discovering the secrets of cathedral building). With my little bit of knowledge I then read a fascinating book called the "Hiram Key" which, i felt, was an impressive grounding in the inception, tradition and eventual destruction of the order and their metamorphosis into the freemasons.

The more modern stuff, i think, talks about Rosslyn Chapel and how it is stuffed full of Freemason symbolism etc.

To get on to my point: Does anyone on the MB have suggestions for what i should read next in relation to the Knight Templars (aside from all the stuff that's on the web)?

I'm also planning a motoring holiday in Scotland to look at Rosslyn (and also take in Bonnybridge, Loch Ness and up into the highlands to try and get a few glimpses of Stealth bombers / fighters etc). Has anyone got suggestions of other stuff that might be of interest.

I appreciate this is a little "off thread", please don't be mad - just ignore me if that's the case;)
 
The Templars by Pierce Paul Reid is about as orthodox as you will get.

In fact he does go out of his way to ignore Scotland.

The sequal to the contraversial "Hiram Key" is "The Second Messiah". Although their conclusions are a bit off, they do ask some fundamental questions and do provide some attractive theories. The Hiram Key suffers from a lack of Bibliography and decent reference.

The sequal presumes that the first is wholly conclusive....it is'nt.

Check the web site for Scotlands Grand Lodge and you will find all the decent books are reviewed in depth.

But your last method is one of the best.....it is astounding how much you will find if you visit the places in question.

P.S Have a quick read at my first post....this is not off topic so dont worry. In fact it is very much on topic as I want as much as possible covered on the one thread.
 
Templecombe

I always believed Templecombe and Temple Cloud , near Bristol , had names derived from the fact there were Roman temples there , Temple Cloud was supposed originally to be called Temple Claudius I think .

I'm going to an illustrated talk on Rosslyn , the Templars and the Grail at the end of October . Hope to learn more then as I don't know much at the moment .
 
Does anybody else live near an area of Templar activity?

I live about 15km from Rennes Le Chateau which some certainly say was a place of Templar activity. That is I live there about 6 months of every year. Not there at the moment - going back in mid October.

In general, the area is known for a Cathar history. Some say that Templars serving with Simon De Montfort in, I think, the 13th century learned many Cathar 'secrets' and traditions. I live very close to Queribus and Peyrepertuse which were Cathar castles on a ridge which was once also, roughly, the border with Spain.

Some of the very old houses in our village were once connected by passages - I'm told that these were for quick escape from the Inquisition and Crusade forces.

The Pier Paul Read book is very good - if rather dry in places.
 
The incorporation of the word Temple is almost always associated with areas of Templar involvement.

I love the attributes of Rennes le Chateau and have many sketchings and notes but as yet have not been.

Are you a regular visitor? How have you percieved the place?
 
Temple=Templar

Cool - I'll have to look further into local names stuff - I should ask the speaker at the talk about it .
 
Back
Top