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Knights Templar Thread

Lethe said:
Apparently the tortures they underwent were horrendous, and yes, some did steadfastly maintain their innocence, there was a case of one knight carrying in some part of his body that had been removed ( I'll get the book from my mothers house ) it could be the broken bones of his fingers?

Yes, horrendous - the victim's feet were covered in oil and placed next to a fire - the heat was so great that the bones of one Knight's foot fell out - he took them in to a tribunal to demonstrate how and why he had come to admitting such charges. A nasty twist was that if a Knight had 'confessed' to these cock n bull charges, he would be spared (after a suitable penance, such as joining another monastic order). The 'confession' was seen as recanting, and rejoining the Church.

But if a Knight 'confessed' and subsequently retracted his confession, arguing that he had been tortured into making these statements, this was viewed as apostasy - he had recommenced his heretical ways - and was therefore beyond redemption. These were the Templars who were burned at the stake.

Not sure about the fates of those few who managed to hold out and not 'admit' these charges - I think this applies to de Molay who maintained his personal innocence and that of his Order - but I think some others died in prison. The legality of the executions by burning was all a bit dodgy - King Philip rushed some of these executions through as the Pope was stalling...
 
Yes, Sifaka, that was it, thankyou. Apparently Philip requested Edward II of England to put the Templars here to ' the Question ' and recieved a very half hearted response from him, you would probably know more than I, until I dig the book out.
 
Scotland however was already excommunicated, Robert the Bruce already shown his disregard of Papal power by murdering his rivil while he was in church. I think they actually gained lands up here instead of being persecuted en masse.
 
Many_Angled_One said:
Scotland however was already excommunicated, Robert the Bruce already shown his disregard of Papal power by murdering his rivil while he was in church. I think they actually gained lands up here instead of being persecuted en masse.

Does anyone know of any evidence that the Templars fought alongside Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn? I have heard this mentioned a few times; the time scale is about right (1307, arrests...1314, Bannockburn). As Many Angled one says, Scotland was already excommunicated. So it could well have become a refuge for Templars around the time of their arrests and persecution (Scotland would not fear Papal wrath at sheltering heretics, as it was already excommunicated).
 
Well there were quite a few questionable circumstances in relation to the Templars in Ireland, England and Scotland.

It is thought that the Templar headquarters in Ireland, Contarf Castle Near Dublin City, had its armoury emptied to route to Scotland. When finally sezied bu Crown Authorities, the armoury of Contarf contained nothing but a couple of rusted spear heads with broken and rotten shafts.

I too am intrigued by supposed Templar Intervention with Bruce and would very much like to see some evidence. Cicrumstancially the case is good. The St. Clairs were among the most influential Templar families and their grants prvided one of the leargest Templar encampments outside of France and Outremer. So it would seem logical that fleeing Templars would go there where they would be beyond secular and Inquisitorial power.

LD
 
Yes, it was heavily suggested in the book I read, that many did go to Scotland, but there was, they said, not proof, but it made a very good case. And what did happen to the Templar Fleet which apparently ' vanished '? ( It may be back here in the thread somewhere, but I don't have time to look back )
 
Lethe said:
Yes, it was heavily suggested in the book I read, that many did go to Scotland, but there was, they said, not proof, but it made a very good case. And what did happen to the Templar Fleet which apparently ' vanished '? ( It may be back here in the thread somewhere, but I don't have time to look back )

Interesting BBC site here : http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/myths_leg ... le_4.shtml

And check page 3 for the Lost Fleet o' the Templars (harhharrh):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/myths_leg ... le_3.shtml
 
Vatican paper set to clear Knights Templar
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
Last Updated: 2:08am BST 05/10/2007

The mysteries of the Order of the Knights Templar could soon be laid bare after the Vatican announced the release of a crucial document which has not been seen for almost 700 years.

Guardians of the Grail
A new book, Processus contra Templarios, will be published by the Vatican's Secret Archive on Oct 25, and promises to restore the reputation of the Templars, whose leaders were burned as heretics when the order was dissolved in 1314.

The Knights Templar were a powerful and secretive group of warrior monks during the Middle Ages. Their secrecy has given birth to endless legends, including one that they guard the Holy Grail.

Recently, they have been featured in films including The Da Vinci Code and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

The Order was founded by Hugues de Payns, a French knight, after the First Crusade of 1099 to protect pilgrims on the road to Jerusalem. Its headquarters was the captured Al-Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount, which lent the Templars their name.

But when Jerusalem fell to Muslim rule in 1244, rumours surfaced that the knights were heretics who worshipped idols in a secret initiation ceremony.

In 1307, King Philip IV "the Fair" of France, in desperate need of funds, ordered the arrest and torture of all Templars. After confessing various sins their leader, Jacques de Molay, was burnt at the stake.

Pope Clement V then dissolved the order and issued arrest warrants for all remaining members. Ever since, the Templars have been thought of as heretics.

The new book is based on a scrap of parchment discovered in the Vatican's secret archives in 2001 by Professor Barbara Frale. The long-lost document is a record of the trial of the Templars before Pope Clement, and ends with a papal absolution from all heresies.

Prof Frale said: "I could not believe it when I found it. The paper was put in the wrong archive in the 17th century."

The document, known as the Chinon parchment, reveals that the Templars had an initiation ceremony which involved "spitting on the cross", "denying Jesus" and kissing the lower back, navel and mouth of the man proposing them.

The Templars explained to Pope Clement that the initiation mimicked the humiliation that knights could suffer if they fell into the hands of the Saracens, while the kissing ceremony was a sign of their total obedience.

The Pope concluded that the entrance ritual was not truly blasphemous, as alleged by King Philip when he had the knights arrested. However, he was forced to dissolve the Order to keep peace with France and prevent a schism in the church.

"This is proof that the Templars were not heretics," said Prof Frale. "The Pope was obliged to ask pardon from the knights.

"For 700 years we have believed that the Templars died as cursed men, and this absolves them."

http://tinyurl.com/2w2v8m
 
rynner said:
Recently, they have been featured in films including The Da Vinci Code and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.


Recent?! Last Crusade was out almost twenty years ago!
 
And a bit more via the BBC

The Vatican's recent decision to release documents on the persecution of the Knights Templar in the 14th Century has piqued interest in the mysterious order. But what are the latter-day Templars up to?

This is a story. In the Middle Ages there was a secretive organisation called the Knights Templar. They were disbanded with many killed on the orders of the Pope because they knew the secret that Jesus had had a child with Mary Magdalene. Despite the killing of the order's members, societies carry on its legacy of hidden knowledge today.

There's a problem with this version of events, part-inspired by Da Vinci Code author Dan Brown and other authors.

It's cobblers.

There are lots of organisations today that bear the Templar name, but for the most part they are in the business of charitable works inspired by the original order. Secret documents about Mary Magdalene are not the order of the day.

Source
 
Knights Templar heirs in legal battle with the Pope
The heirs of the Knights Templar have launched a legal battle in Spain to force the Pope to restore the reputation of the disgraced order which was accused of heresy and dissolved seven centuries ago.
By Fiona Govan, Madrid Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:55AM BST 04 Aug 2008

The Association of the Sovereign Order of the Temple of Christ, whose members claim to be descended from the legendary crusaders, have filed a lawsuit against Benedict XVI calling for him to recognise the seizure of assets worth 100 billion euros (£79 billion).

They claim that when the order was dissolved by his predecessor Pope Clement V in 1307, more than 9,000 properties as well as countless pastures, mills and other commercial ventures belonging to the knights were appropriated by the church.

But their motive is not to reclaim damages only to restore the "good name" of the Knights Templar.

"We are not trying to cause the economic collapse of the Roman Catholic Church, but to illustrate to the court the magnitude of the plot against our Order," said a statement issued by the self-proclaimed modern day knights.

The Templars was a powerful secretive group of warrior monks founded by French knight Hugues de Payens after the First Crusade of 1099 to protect pilgrims en route to Jerusalem.

They amassed enormous wealth and helped to finance wars waged by European monarchs, but spectacularly fell from grace after the Muslims reconquered the Holy Land in 1244 and rumours surfaced of their heretic practices.

The Knights were accused of denying Jesus, worshipping icons of the devil in secret initiation ceremonies, and practising sodomy.

Many Templars confessed to their crimes under torture and some, including the Grand Master Jacques de Molay, were burned at the stake.

The legal move by the Spanish group comes follows the unprecedented step by the Vatican towards the rehabilitation of the group when last October it released copies of parchments recording the trials of the Knights between 1307 and 1312.

The papers lay hidden for more than three centuries having been "misfiled" within papal archives until they were discovered by an academic in 2001.

The Chinon parchment revealed that, contrary to historic belief, Clement V had declared the Templars were not heretics but disbanded the order anyway to maintain peace with their accuser, King Philip IV of France.

Over the centuries, various groups have claimed to be descended from the Templars and legend abounds over hidden treasures, secret rituals, and their rumoured guardianship of the Holy Grail.

Most recently the knights have fascinated the modern generation after being featured in the film Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Dan Brown's novel The Da Vinci Code.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -Pope.html
 
"But their motive is not to reclaim damages only to restore the "good name" of the Knights Templar."

Well it's a good name to remember if you want to join a gang of penniless, ass-kissing, cross-spitting blokes. :?
 
'Pac-Man' markings create new mystery at former stronghold of Knights Templar
Mike Wade

In a scene worthy of the opening of Dan Brown’s next bestselling novel, workmen renovating a garden wall have stumbled on two mysteriously carved gravestones at the site of the former stronghold of the Knights Templar in Scotland.

The ancient stones were unearthed under a gateway leading from a ruined medieval church to the adjoining manse in the village of Temple, Midlothian. One, believed to be of 10th-century origin, is marked with a simple early Christian cross. The second appears to be from a later era and is decorated in a much more puzzling style.

Possibly carved for a knight, it features a braided cross, a sword and a shield, which is marked with strange shapes in the style of “Pac-Man”. Wary locals note that the markings bear a striking resemblance to the characters in the 1970s arcade game and fear that they may lead to UFO enthusiasts arriving in the village en masse.

The location of the stones lends the discovery a further piquancy. Seven miles (11 kilometres) away lies Rosslyn Chapel, the astonishingly ornate church made famous in Mr Brown’s thriller The Da Vinci Code. Legend has it that the Holy Grail is hidden in its secret vaults.

Local archaeologists are reluctant to stir these increasingly fantastical myths, but they are intrigued by the discovery of the stones. After the intervention of Midlothian Council and the government agency Historic Scotland the stones are being analysed by an archaeological consultancy which is expected to report in the new year.

David Connolly, who runs the British Archaeology Jobs and Resources website from nearby Haddington, said that although many of the symbols of the larger and later stones were easy to explain, the “Pac-Men” were more unusual. “It is hard to be certain what those symbols are,” he said. “It might be sheep shears, or they could be hawking bells, the kinds of things that might be attached to a falcon. They could even be a made-up piece of heraldry.”

The other carvings make seemingly obvious allusions to the status of the departed, but even these images could be misleading.

The symbol of a sword on a tombstone is often taken to represent a knight, but it is very difficult to distinguish a Templar from a knight of another order, or from someone else entirely. “It might just have been a wealthy local landowner with enough money to afford a decent burial,” Mr Connolly said.

The legends surrounding the Knights Templar do little to unravel these new mysteries of Midlothian.

Founded in France, but dispersed across Europe, the order’s charitable works made it rich. Its downfall came after the Templars refused to finance a crusade to the Holy Land proposed by Philip IV of France. He responded with a raft of trumped-up charges against the Templars, including heresy, sodomy and the kissing of goats, and on Friday, 13 October, 1307 most of the French order were jailed, tortured and killed and their property seized.

Though Philip’s actions were endorsed by the Vatican, on the other side of the English Channel the Templars were often spared jail or death. But even in Scotland, where the order had been based at Temple in the 13th century, property was forfeit. Their preceptory, complete with its cloisters, church, kitchens, outhouses and graveyard, passed to the Knights Hospitallers, which makes the identification of the tombstones even more difficult.

Seven hundred years later Temple is a potential goldmine for amateur and professional archaeologists. Crispin Phillips, 62, who has owned the 17th-century manse for more than 20 years, is well aware of the significance of the land that it stands on. Teams of archaeologists have already surveyed his garden and discovered three bodies hunched in lead coffins, similar to a find at nearby Soutra Aisle, a medieval hospital.

Mr Phillips said that he had been present when the tombstones were discovered this year.

“We found them under two steps, almost one on top of another. At first I thought that it was just a joke,” he said. “I feel like Indiana Jones in his dotage.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 893161.ece
 
gncxx said:
Bit of a stretch to call that a Pac-Man...
..but it's quicker than calling it a Disc with a Sector Cut Out! ;)
 
Nail from Christ's crucifixion found?
A nail dating from the time of Christ's crucifixion has been found at a remote fort believed to have once been a stronghold of the Knights Templar.
Published: 6:56AM GMT 02 Mar 2010

The four-inch long nail is thought to be one of thousands used in crucifixions across the Roman empire.

Archaeologists believe it dates from either the first or second century AD.

The nail was found last summer in a decorated box in a fort on the tiny isle of Ilheu de Pontinha, just off the coast of Madeira.

Pontinha was thought to have been held by the Knights Templar, the religious order that was part of the Christian forces which occupied Jerusalem during the Crusades in the 12th century.

The knights were part of the plot of Dan Brown's best-selling novel, The Da Vinci Code.

Bryn Walters, an archaeologist, said the iron nail's remarkable condition suggested it had been handed with extreme care, as if it was a relic.

"It dates from the first to second centuries," he told the Daily Mirror.

While one would expect the surface to be "pitted and rough" he said on this nail the surface was smooth.

That suggested that many people had handled it over the centuries, with the acid on their hands giving it a "peculiar finish".

Christopher Macklin of the Knights Templar of Britannia said the discovery was "momentous".

He said the original Knights Templar may have thought it was one of the nails used in Christ's crucifixion.

The nail was found together with three skeletons and three swords.

One of the swords had the Knight Templar's cross inscribed on it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... found.html
 
Knights Templar heirs demand apology from Vatican
The heirs to the Knights Templar have demanded an apology from the Vatican for the murder of their last leader, who was burned at the stake in the 14th century.
By Nick Squires, Rome
7:30AM BST 17 Jun 2011

The last Grand Master of the warrior monks who fought in the Crusades, Jacques de Molay, was executed in Paris in 1314 on charges of heresy, black magic and idolatry.
His death was part of a concerted campaign to suppress the chivalric order by King Philip IV of France, who had grown suspicious of the Templars' power and envious of their wealth.

Although it was the French king who ordered de Molay to be put to death, the Templars have for centuries accused the Church in Rome of complicity.
Pope Clement V initiated an inquest into the order which led to many knights being subjected to heresy trials, before disbanding altogether.

The movement was reborn in the early 19th century as a charitable organisation and has branches around the world.
The Italian chapter of the order has written to Pope Benedict XVI asking him to issue a pardon for de Molay and to acknowledge that he was a victim of false accusations.
"There was an enormous degree of complicity because Clement V, who was Pope at the time, was under huge pressure from King Philip," Walter Grandis, 64, the current head or Grand Prior of the Knights Templar in Italy, told The Daily Telegraph.

"This was an appalling crime and a miscarriage of justice that the Church allowed to happen.
"We're asking for de Molay to be pardoned so that we can finally turn a page in history and work towards reconciliation," said Mr Grandis, who recently wrote a book on the order, called The Templars: The Real Secret.

A document found in the Vatican Secret Archives a decade ago revealed that Clement V absolved some Templars of heresy, but the Church has never apologised for the order's persecution.

The request for a pardon and apology was submitted to Dr Guzman Carriquiry Lecour, the under-secretary for the Pontifical Council for the Laity, a few weeks ago but will be discussed by modern-day Templars at a special conference in Turin on Friday and Saturday.
A Vatican spokesman said the request was being considered.

The inheritors of the Templar chivalric code have also launched a bid to rehabilitate de Molay, nearly 700 years after his death.
They achieved a small victory in March when a town in north-eastern Italy agreed to rename one of its squares in his honour.

A grand ceremony was held in Lusevera, a town in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region on the border with Slovenia, during which the new name – Piazzale Jacques de Molay – was unveiled. A sign commemorates the knight as "a martyr to free thought".
"It is the first time in Europe that de Molay has been recognised in this way," said Mr Grandis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... tican.html
 
A long read, but quite interesting - just a few bits and pieces I will quote here:

The Narragansett Rune Stone and the Kinghts Templar?

Scott Wolter, a forensic geologist from Minnesota has come under fire from critics who see his theories as over the edge, he is considered an expert by many on the subject of runestones, having produced documentaries for the History Channel and written two books. In “The Kensington Stone: Compelling New Evidence,” he writes about why he believes that a stone with runic lettering — found in 1899 by a farmer and his two sons on a hill in Minnesota — was not the hoax that critics claimed, but a real artifact made by visitors from Europe a century or two before Christopher Columbus set sail for the new world.

In his second book, “The Hooked X,” published in 2009, and in subsequent interviews, Wolter has gone further, suggesting that the presence of a mysterious “hooked X” character on the Kensington Stone in Minnesota as well as on the stone tower in Touro Park in Newport and the Narragansett Rune Stone off North Kingstown connects them all to the Military Order of the Knights Templar, a secretive medieval group that he says was suppressed by the Catholic Church because of its members’ unusual beliefs about the Holy Grail.

In the geologist’s view, the Narragansett Rune Stone was such an important piece of history — perhaps even more important than Plymouth Rock — that it was imperative that it be moved to a dry, safe place to protect it from erosion and vandals and to allow experts to examine it.

Some participants at the meeting at Goodhue’s home in 2011 say that nearly everyone agreed — except for the neighbor whose property was closest to the stone, billionaire businessman Timothy Mellon.

http://www.providencejournal.com/breaki ... one.ece#15
 
Err, umm...

'Masonic Fraternal Police Department' Ruse Foiled, Three Arrested

Three people have been arrested over an elaborate ruse involving a fake police force claiming ties to the "Knights of Templar," officials in California said late Tuesday.

The Los Angeles County Sheriff's department said law-enforcement agencies across southern California started receiving letters in January from the "Masonic Fraternal Police Department" requesting meetings with local police chiefs. Calls to set up meetings with the group soon followed.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...t-masonic-fraternal-police-force-cops-n354476
 
That 'masonic police force' thing is one of the most off-the-wall things I've heard in a long while.
 
Surely this must have been posted somewhere else by now?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gallery/stunning-700-year-old-giant-9981913

Stunning 700-year-old giant cave used by Knights Templar found behind a rabbit hole in the British countryside
The cave, beneath a farmer's field in Shropshire, was used by the medieval religious order that fought in the Crusades and these stunning images were captured by photographer Michael Scott
  • 266686Shares
ByJoshua Taylor
  • 14:02, 7 MAR 2017
  • Updated17:01, 9 MAR 2017
  1. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    The stunning labyrinth is lit with candles (Photo: Michael Scott/ Caters News)1 of 12
  2. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    It is thought the cave was built as a place to worship (Photo: Caters News Agency)2 of 12
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    The cave is less than a metre underground (Photo: Michael Scott/ Caters News)3 of 12
  4. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    It contains a network of walkways that are "completely untouched" (Photo: Michael Scott/ Caters News)4 of 12
  5. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    The way out of the cave, where Knights Templar would have walked 700 years ago (Photo: Michael Scott/ Caters News)5 of 12
  6. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    The hole leading into the cave looks just like a rabbit's hole (Photo: Michael Scott/ Caters News)6 of 12
  7. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    It was reportedly also once used by followers of a black magic cult (Photo: Caters News Agency)7 of 12
  8. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    The cave is near the Shropshire village of Albrighton (Photo: Caters News Agency)8 of 12
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    The Knights Templar were active from 1119 to the beginning of the 1300s, although the exact dates are disputed (Photo: Caters News Agency)9 of 12
  10. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    There are many inscriptions on the cave walls (Photo: Caters News Agency)10 of 12
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    Candles are used to illuminate the inside of the cave (Photo: Caters News Agency)11 of 12
  12. PAY-Knights-templar-cave.jpg

    It is not known exactly when the cave was dug, but it is thought around 700 years ago - although some believe it was much later in the 17th century (Photo: Caters News Agency)
 
The Templar Who Shot Jesse James.

Jesse James and the Lost Templar Treasure:
Secret Diaries, Coded Maps, and the Knights of the Golden Circle
Daniel J. Duke | July 9, 2019 | Destiny Books | ISBN: 9781620558201 | 150 pages | $16.99
stars-1-5_3_orig.jpg


Generally speaking, if a book opens by thanking God for his help and assistance, it’s not a very good book. Somehow, God’s literary output has declined markedly in quality since his first few bestsellers. Really, after the Qur’an, it was all downhill, even when he is just consulting, as he did with this book. Our inspired volume under consideration today, Jesse James and the Lost Templar Treasure, begins with the unpromising revelation that the author and his mother and sister were disheartened when the James Farm and Museum refused to endorse their family legend that their alleged ancestor, the outlaw Jesse James, faked his death and lived out his life in Blevins, Texas as James Lafayette Courtney—the man who is Daniel J. Duke’s actual ancestor. Our author describes becoming progressively more strident in his beliefs because of the “many rude encounters” he had with experts who declined to embrace his family’s oral tradition that Courtney was James, traditions detailed in his mother Betty Dorsett Duke’s book, Jesse James Lived and Died in Texas, which Duke expects readers to presume to be both true and correct, mostly because the scholarly elites say no.

untitled_3.png

Duke claims that the 1995 DNA testing of the body buried in Jesse James’s grave proved that the body did not belong the James, but standard accounts from the time state that mitochondrial DNA tested were consistent with a known member of the James family.

Duke offers no evidence that his great-grandfather was Jesse James other than the opinion of some police detectives that the two men’s photographs look similar, as do photos of their respective mothers. It’s not terribly convincing.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/r...jZI_aXpVu9xkSAm-64a03N0BLLfCDJKrx51Z8kXhTFQqc
 
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