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Life From Space? (Panspermia; Lithopanspermia)

gordonrutter said:
I deliberately worded it to leave that possibility open. What Charliebrown appears to be saying is origin for viruses and a separate origin for life on Earth. I’m arguing because of the common language the same origin for both.
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Giorgio.png
 
Panspermia, we all came from space dust.

We are just dust, and everything in the universe is related.

For example a hydrogen atom is a hydrogen atom anywhere in the universe.

Viruses probably came before people dust came.
 
charliebrown said:
Panspermia, we all came from space dust.

We are just dust, and everything in the universe is related.

For example a hydrogen atom is a hydrogen atom anywhere in the universe.

Viruses probably came before people dust came.
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So viruses and humans have the same origin, thank you you’ve just, proven my point.
 
OK, so we are all git here seeded through panspeoplepermia, but how did we get to the place where we started from?

Alien-aliens, innit.
 
Ogdred Weary said:
OK, so we are all git here seeded through panspeoplepermia, but how did we get to the place where we started from?

Alien-aliens, innit.
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I must admit, being serious, panspermia is not really an answer to anything. How did life on Earth begin? Panspermia. Ok, how did the life that seeded us begin? By citing panspermia the problem is just pushed one step away.
 
gordonrutter said:
I must admit, being serious, panspermia is not really an answer to anything. How did life on Earth begin? Panspermia. Ok, how did the life that seeded us begin? By citing panspermia the problem is just pushed one step away.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical new idea...

At the time of the Big Bang, all mathematical probabilities, all combinations and permutations, occurred at one and the same time.
With the creation of this universe, all possible things that might occur, occurred.
One of those things was the crystalline structure that became RNA, formed right at the beginning of the universe.
RNA then combined with other crystalline structures over billions of years to form the first rudimentary DNA and cells.
From there on, DNA acquired more information, became more complex and finally led to higher life forms.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical new idea...

At the time of the Big Bang, all mathematical probabilities, all combinations and permutations, occurred at one and the same time.
With the creation of this universe, all possible things that might occur, occurred.
One of those things was the crystalline structure that became RNA, formed right at the beginning of the universe.
RNA then combined with other crystalline structures over billions of years to form the first rudimentary DNA and cells.
From there on, DNA acquired more information, became more complex and finally led to higher life forms.
Click to expand...

Where do the aliens fit into this?
 
Einstein showing his dislike of quantum physics, said “ God does not play dice with the universe “.

So, the universe is homogenous, and good and bad RNA and DNA are brothers and sisters.

But viruses seem like alien invaders and act just like the SciFi movie in 1956 “ The Invasion of the Body Snatchers “.
 
Look. We are just hosts to bacteria and DNA with one compulsion. To spread. Get us into space and spread.
 
We are made from space dust that makes all humans connected.

But I have always wondered why most life need male-female to reproduce except a few like worms that carry both sexes.

I wondered how nature set this situation up ?

I always said, for example, hydrogen is the same anywhere in the universe.
 
charliebrown said:
We are made from space dust that makes all humans connected.

But I have always wondered why most life need male-female to reproduce except a few like worms that carry both sexes.

I wondered how nature set this situation up ?

I always said, for example, hydrogen is the same anywhere in the universe.
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It's an evolutionary pathway that arose out of mathematical probabilities.
Asexual or hermaphroditic reproduction leads to a lack of genetic diversity, which may hinder the speed of evolution. A male can mate with many partners and spread genes far and wide. There is a greater probability of mutation and evolution, coupled with a competitive drive to be bigger, faster, stronger, better at surviving in a male-female setup. Females have largely driven this evolution by selecting more successful mates, or mates with certain characteristics.
 
charliebrown said:
I always said, for example, hydrogen is the same anywhere in the universe.
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Unless dark matter is dark hydrogen. Not sure what dark matter has to do with life or panspermia in our universe but if there is dark matter and dark energy there could be dark life. So far, if they exist, all we know is that they affect gravity but as we don't know what dark matter is, or even if it is. Is it possible that dark life could in some way affect "normal" life? ( Which I now propose is called "life lite" :) )
 
I really don’t believe in dark matter.

I think it is “ smoke and mirrors “ to explain the unexplainable in the puzzles of the universe.
 
gordonrutter said:
I must admit, being serious, panspermia is not really an answer to anything. How did life on Earth begin? Panspermia. Ok, how did the life that seeded us begin? By citing panspermia the problem is just pushed one step away.
Click to expand...

I would look at it a little differently. The origin of life from inorganic chemicals is an inherently unlikely event, but not totally impossible. You could claim that it is so unlikely that the chances of it happening on any one planet in any sensible geological timeframe is pretty low.

What panspermia allows is a great expansion of the environments on which life could have arisen. You're not talking about life evolving on just one planet. There are immense numbers of planets, and if life could arise on just one of them and then spread, your inherently unlikely event becomes a lot more likely. There's also an expansion of the time factor as well. Panspermia would suggest that life could arise at any point in the history of the universe as a whole.

So instead of pushing the problem one step away, you're expanding the territory on which the origin of life could could have happened, and increasing the chances of your unlikely event occurring.
 
And there is one piece of actual evidence that suggests panspermia might well be true. There's a famous paper which looked at the development of complexity of life over time. The authors found that the development of complexity followed a pattern similar to Moore's law, best known for describing the development of computer chips. The log rate of increase of genetic information was surprisingly constant. The astonishing thing is that early life was already pretty complex, far more so than would be expected it had evolved from a starting point on Earth. Take the graph back to the zero point and the implication is...... that life started some five billion years before the Earth itself evolved.

You can read the whole paper at https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1304/1304.3381.pdf

But here is the key graph:

complexity_time.png


I tend to find this graph pretty persuasive.
 
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