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Light Switches In Dreams?

McAvennie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
3,998
I just told someone in the office something that I remember hearing a few years ago as fact. Having just repeated it in public it was one of those "Why did I just say that!' moments as it sounded ridiculous when I stopped to think about it.

'Light switches do not work when you are dreaming'...

How the hell can anyone prove that? Why would something only invented in the past 100 years be so embedded psychologically in the human brain that they cannot work in your dreams.

Am I an idiot or is this a recognised theory? And if so how does anyone know this for sure? I can't remember ever encountering a light switch in a dream personally.
 
McAvennie_ said:
I just told someone in the office something that I remember hearing a few years ago as fact. Having just repeated it in public it was one of those "Why did I just say that!' moments as it sounded ridiculous when I stopped to think about it.

'Light switches do not work when you are dreaming'...

How the hell can anyone prove that? Why would something only invented in the past 100 years be so embedded psychologically in the human brain that they cannot work in your dreams.

Am I an idiot or is this a recognised theory? And if so how does anyone know this for sure? I can't remember ever encountering a light switch in a dream personally.
It's a massive generalization, but I have tried it during periods of lucid dreaming and it has been true for me. The trick may be to realize that the light comes from within one's self. ;)
 
It's bizarre, but I was having a nightmare a week or two back where that happened. It was one of those dreams where you think you've woken up (but an actual dream, not SP) and I was in bed looking at my bedroom which seemed perfectly normal except that there was an unfamiliar cat in the room with me. Then I got up and went to switch the lamp on, which didn't work, which made me realise that I was dreaming (which does imply that it's happened before).

Geneally stumped on this one...
 
Mmmn, found this rather lengthy study on the matter:

http://www.lucidity.com/NL52.LightandMirror.html

and to cut to the chase:

"In their studies, the Marquis d'Hervey de Saint-Denys and Alan Worsley
observed something they called the "light switch" phenomenon. This was
an inability to change the illumination of a room on demand. From this
study, it seems that this phenomenon is sometimes present and sometimes
not. Some people who were able to turn on lights reported no concurrent
change in general illumination, but others reported that there was an
increase in brightnessÑabout half and half. So, "the light switch
phenomenon" is not dead, but merely seems to be sleeping some of the
time. A prime target for research would be to discover what the brain is
doing under both circumstances."

and a table of results for this and a few other things:

LightSwitchMirrorTable1.gif
 
That is strange. Unless:
1. there was a reason in the logic of the dream for that to occur.
2. our unconscious mind forgets to handle such details

It seems to me that things would work as we have learned to expect them to in our dreams. Look at a person's first reaction when turning on the light doesn't work in waking life. They usually unbelievingly flip the switch on and off several time to verify that it actually isn't working as assumed.


Then again, things in dreams are at variance with reality.
 
If you watch the lucid dreamer's lucid dreaming film Waking Life, there's a reference to the light switch phenomenon. This may have popularised the idea.
 
Mrs Slejpner reckons if you look at your hand during a lucid dream/astral projection, it starts to melt before your eyes!
 
there was a reason in the logic of the dream for that to occur.

It does make me wonder wether the effect is the same if you've actually set about to test it, like if you've thought in advance that there was going to be a lightswitch in your dream and you were going to try it out, the mind might be primed for it in a way that it wouldn't be if it was unplanned, or the dream was not lucid.
 
I had one of my frequent sleep paralysis episodes last night and while struggling to move or wake myself up I wasn't sure if I was still dreaming or if I was awake yet. In my befuddled state I remembered reading this thread and I tried to switch on my bedside lamp. It didn't come on. Even though this made me realise I was still dreaming I tried to will the light to come on in my dream but it wouldn't. I pressed the switch several times in my dream and the light never came on. I found it quite comforting to have this way to reassure myself that I was dreaming and I think I'll use it again.

Wish I'd remembered Mrs Slejpner's tip about looking at your hands.
 
I'm always a bit dubious about universal generalizations about dreams. I'm sure there's a lot out there that we tend to share due to cultural conditioning, but there will also be extremely individual (or locally shared, e.g., by a social group) symbols and interpretations.

Anyway, I've also noticed that in my own dreams the lighting seems to be given and unchangeable. Sometimes I know I'm dreaming because I know what's going on and am interacting with people/things but the illumination is such that I shouldn't be able to see them - similar to what Philo_T seems to be saying, about how people in waking life react v. how people act/react in dreams. I also never see faces in dreams - I know who people are by intuition.

For comparison with the lightswitch, though... I wonder how other mechanical and technical things behave in dreams. Anyone have any examples? I can't think of any right now myself...
 
I used to have quite a lot of nightmares which would, at some point, involve a light switch that didn't work, or even 'melted'. As far as other mechanical things go, I occasionally dream that I'm driving a vehicle (I don't drive in real life) and find that it's impossible to slow down, so I have to go careering about the streets like Keanu Reeves in Speed (my dream predates the film, BTW).
 
decipheringscars said:
...For comparison with the lightswitch, though... I wonder how other mechanical and technical things behave in dreams. Anyone have any examples? I can't think of any right now myself...

I can never dial a telephone in my dreams. I either can't press the correct numbers for some reason or the phone buttons have no numbers on. Also when I'm driving in dreams the steering seems uncontrollable.
 
OMG! I also cant dial a telephone number in my dreams. I can press the numbers but always the wrong ones, or the name that Im looking for has disappeared from my contacts (its always a mobile phone - tut). That's so weird! Im usually frantically trying to contact someone that I know but just cant get it right.

I also cant switch lights on in my dreams and didnt realise that this was a universal phenomena - I always learn so much when I drop by here. :lol:
 
I've heard an explanation for the light switch thing and it runs like this: The brain normally doesn't bother to model light sources, shadows, and direction of illumination, because it's unnecessary extra work in generating a dream scene, so it mostly makes do with neutral directionless illumination. If you flip a light switch, you're asking your brain to do a whole lot of extra work to model the effect, and the easiest solution it finds to evade this is to make the switch dysfunctional. Simple.
 
_farry_ said:
The brain normally doesn't bother to model light sources, shadows, and direction of illumination, because it's unnecessary extra work in generating a dream scene, so it mostly makes do with neutral directionless illumination.
I wonder if this is this parallels with UFO cases?
 
graylien said:
As far as other mechanical things go, I occasionally dream that I'm driving a vehicle (I don't drive in real life) and find that it's impossible to slow down, so I have to go careering about the streets like Keanu Reeves in Speedquote]

I myself - due to childhood circumstances I won't bore you with - never learned to ride a bicycle (and at 49 it's a bit late now), a distinction I proudly share with the late Isaac Asimov. However, I've recalled several dreams in which I did so. Most often in the dreams I mount a bike knowing I haven't learned, but find that I can manage after a fashion though, as with graylien's dream-driving, usually rather erratically.

It would be tempting to conclude that subconsciously we yearn to drive or bike-ride respectively, but I can honestly say that in waking life I feel no desire whatever to master the velocipedal arts.
 
I know I used to be able to switch lights on in dreams because I often write my dreams down and I have one from the 14th September this year in which I most definitely was able to switch on a light as it was central to the plot of my dream. However then I read this thread, and again the subject came up yesterday when I was reading on wikipedia about lucid dreaming, i.e. a way to recognise you are dreaming is by attempting to switch on a light. (which seems a bit strange to me, I mean if I were aware enough of the possibility that I might be dreaming as to experiment by trying to switch on a light, I think I would know by then anyway but perhaps that's just me).

SO, anyway, after having that brought to my attention again I went to sleep last night thinking I would attempt lucid dreaming again (for the millionth time with very minimal success in the past). The results were most strange.

One is that I dreamed I was trying to turn on light switches but they wouldn't work, or they would, but not in time with my flicking the switch. Unfortunately this did not have the effect of making me aware of the fact that I was dreaming as I was also dreaming that there was a storm and assumed there was a blackout! (incidently there was also a storm happening in the real world).

Secondly, in a subsequent dream I was able to acheive lucidity without any particular prompts! I have no idea how this happened but my first thought was, can I fly? hahahah.

So anyway, the matter of light switches is still unresolved for me!
 
Trouble Light

I remember specifically one dream which involved electric light - searching through a dark church basement with a trouble light on a very long and heavy-duty power cord plugged in upstairs in the sanctuary.

My own memory is that light switches WORK in dreams, but that the lights don't neccessarily come on immediately - it's as though dream-electricity is a thick and slow-moving fluid that runs like molasses.

As for theories that electric lights may be historically too recent to resonate with the dream state, I don't think that washes. I've experienced automobiles, airplanes, busses, radio and television and even the Internet in dreams and they're all more recent than electric lights.
 
H James: "neutral directionless illumination.
I wonder if this is this parallels with UFO cases?"

That's a really good point. And it would also be similar to many fairy 'abduction' cases where people were taken to unusually lit Other Places too.
 
I have never noticed whether lightswitches work in my dreams, I can't think of a time when I have ever tried to use one or even whether I have needed light in my dreams, it's usually arranged for me somehow! I do have trouble with phones though, I have never ever used one successfully in a dream, either the numbers don't work or I forget the number I am trying to call, or I dial the correct number and there is just silence...it's very frustrating, sometimes my dreams are just me on the phone trying to reach someone.

I often can't find a loo that works / has a lockable door/ isn't in the middle of a room populated by thirty people etc. But I think this may be a safety device in my brain as if I ever did find one I'd probably use it..... :lol:
 
Re: Trouble Light

OldTimeRadio said:
My own memory is that light switches WORK in dreams, but that the lights don't neccessarily come on immediately - it's as though dream-electricity is a thick and slow-moving fluid that runs like molasses..

The laws of physics seem to be set on "sluggish" mode in my dreams. For example, water tends to move and flow like a very thick glue.

* Dr. Freud, where are you now that we NEED you? *
 
I always assume that I'm having an OBE if I can't operate a light switch (if it looks like one in my home) and dreaming if I can't do the telephone dialling thing - and the latter especially scares and frustrates me.
 
Splooosh!

Another thing that drives me crazy in dreams - porcelain wash basins, the bathroom variety, have bowls about an inch deep, so as soon as I turn on the tap, water splashes everywhere.

Thick, gluey splashes, of course. (See my post above.)
 
I recall one dream many years ago involving a room with rusty orange walls and copper-patina or malachite trim / panels. The reason I mention the ornamentation is because I found it striking and adjusted the indirect illumination in the (originally-dimly-lit) room to better examine it. During the course of the dream I stayed in that room and received visitors - for some of whom I adjusted the lighting up or down...

I recall the room was equipped with antique push-button wall switches of the sort I remembered from my grandfather's old house.

However, I don't specifically recall manipulating the switches (or any other apparatus) to change the illumination.
 
DO people turn things on in dreams?

For just one example, if you dream of driving, did you have to start the engine or was it already running? Or was the car perhaps alreadly tooling down the highway?

If so, the nearest connection may be to prose fiction and to motion pictures, where scene changes work in precisely this fashion.
 
(this does not have much to do with lights) But I remember when I was younger, maybe 8 or 10, I was telling a friend about the same age of me, about a dream i had. (i can even remember the particual part of the dream in question) I told her that in my dream, I read a sign at a store. She then started yelling at me that you cannot read in your dreams, and we had a long argument about it (we were little girls). I have never asked anyone since, but i find that I can read in my dreams.

now to the point, maybe certain people can do certain things in their dreams, kinda like a re occuring dream. In many of my own, i can, out of nowhere, and regardless of what type of dream i am having, jump up and float away. but some people probably cannot.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
DO people turn things on in dreams?

For just one example, if you dream of driving, did you have to start the engine or was it already running? Or was the car perhaps alreadly tooling down the highway?

If so, the nearest connection may be to prose fiction and to motion pictures, where scene changes work in precisely this fashion.

I'll answer in reverse order ... I've experienced both 'transitional cuts' and long stretches of continuous progression / transition, so both are possible. One common motif in my dreams is a long progression of peculiar rooms, which I may navigate (and subsequently anticipate / cite / refer to in detail ...) in their organizational order back and forth (not over and over) for long periods of time. I've had continuous sequences involving Scene 1 - Travel - Scene 2 with no breaks. In general (for me...) the more lucid the dream, the more 'continuous' the experience.

Owing to the limits of recall, I (personally) can't swear my dreams are all one way or the other (dream-by-dream).

I've operated, manipulated, shut down, loaded, unloaded, assembled, disassembled, and repaired apparatus in dreams ... However, now that you mention it, I can't think of an instance where I started up a machine.
 
ghyeynne1 said:
... I told her that in my dream, I read a sign at a store. She then started yelling at me that you cannot read in your dreams, and we had a long argument about it (we were little girls). I have never asked anyone since, but i find that I can read in my dreams.

now to the point, maybe certain people can do certain things in their dreams, kinda like a re occuring dream. In many of my own, i can, out of nowhere, and regardless of what type of dream i am having, jump up and float away. but some people probably cannot.

I've sat and read multiple pages of a coherent story (sedate but very boring and mentally-draining dream ...) in the course of dreaming. Within the dream I didn't think anything of it - it was only upon waking that I recognized it as remarkable in my experience. I've read music and pecked out the melody on a piano. I've looked up phone numbers in a directory (no, I don't remember dialing ...).

My most remarkable 'reading stunt' was a very long dream in which I read and referred to a fold-up city map while navigating around a fictional metropolis. I could read the street index and locate the associated streets on the map, then fold up the map / travel / explore, and then refer to the (same) map again. Within the dream I recalled and referred back to prior street names.

For me, the 'generation' of such detailed and stable scenarios is usually associated with a long, continuous storyline and a generally boring plot (exploring; looking for a particular place). Another point is that dreams involving reading (or other structured materials like the city map) tend to be 'laborious' (i.e., I feel drained or strained when I awake ...).

The 'floating / flying' motif was a lot more common in my childhood and adolescence. For me it was usually either (a) taking long steps that progressed into great leaping bounds (of miles at a time...) or (b) sitting cross-legged, levitating, and then moving in a given direction. I honestly don't recall 'flying' in a dream since my undergraduate days.

Anyway ...

Personally, I think dreams are constructive (generated; not passively encountered), because I've 'edited' characters and scenes in 'real time'. As such, I think topical / capabilities variation among dreamers has more to do with the dreamer's capacity for visualization than any richness of a 'received' phenomenon ...
 
Just a quick thought: how many people actually dream they are in a fully darkened place?. Normally, people are aware of where they are in their immediate surrounds - I'm not aware of any reports of people reporting a dream like a sensory deprivation experience.

Another thing: apparantly glass breaks/shatters sluggishly too, and guns etc fire more slowly. However, as a former gun instructor (4 years) I don't seem to have that problem - probably because I know what to expect via experience. To recreate a gun, bullet, target etc probably takes more overt attention than a lightswitch in most cases, I'd've thought.
 
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