Living Pterosaurs: North America

AlchoPwn

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If there were real, flesh and blood, eating, hunting, breeding, pterosaurs flying around the US they would have been identified over a hundred years ago. Think about the legion of bird spotters in the country for a start. Its not like a sea serpent that can hide in the ocean or a hominin on vast forests. The ropen in New Guinea is almost certainly misidentifications of frigate birds and planes lit up at night.
It is interesting that relatively few of the "great bird" events in the USA have taken place during daylight from what I understand. It makes me wonder if perhaps there is a very large owl at play. This might also explain the mothman, as he looks a bit owl-like too.
 

GhostofFort

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This is a video I had in mind -- I must say, it doe not seem to move like any sort of model I have ever seen, for what that's worth.
Far as Weird, NJ goes, I won't comment much, as I know little about those fellows other than their TV work.

On the question of such creatures being alive today, I thinking the small size of most European nations makes some you more skeptical than you really should be. the Northwestern area of both the USA, and Canada, too, of course, could easily hide multitudes of cryptids, and there's certainly so shortage of Elk, for instance, and other wildlife they could prey upon. I would imagine such creatures have, indeed, been seen from time to time, but the great majority of witnesses would keep it to themselves for fear if ridicule, I imagine. While not researching the matter, I do know reports have been made from time to time over the years of similar creatures flying about, which I imagine there's tons of material about on the internet.

The Native populations here have had their legends of "thunderbirds" going back as far as can be traced. Living fossils of similar such creatures would easily fit the bill for these type of reptiles. The same is true of "Bigfoot," and similar such beings, of course. Living in an area which still have its share of wilderness, perhaps I am more open to such than a lot of others would be, I don't know.

Maybe those who believe these are models should buy same, and try to duplicate the movements in the above? A good test, it would seem to me. Perhaps some really ARE exactly what they appear to be; given human nature, some hoaxes no doubt appear from time to time, but a good investigation is helpful, always.

Please do remember, the fact most have phones with cameras will lead to more footage of just about ALL Fortean phenomena on this TV series, or that, and the best of it has, I feel, added to the body pf evidence which will bring more of these subjects into "the mainstream; if you will.

Take care.
 

lordmongrove

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It is interesting that relatively few of the "great bird" events in the USA have taken place during daylight from what I understand. It makes me wonder if perhaps there is a very large owl at play. This might also explain the mothman, as he looks a bit owl-like too.

That's certainly a possibility.
 
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GhostofFort

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No offense intended to anyone, of course, but I believe the various skeptics have tried to blame Moth Man via the use of owls. The late Daniel Cohen, if memory serves, attempted to "explain" the Flatwoods, WVA UFO "Monster,"(of the incident of 12 September, 1952), presumably an occupant of said-UFO seen shortly beforehand, as an opossum in a tree because in-part, I take it, that both tend to have eyes which are rather eerie at night. With some wry amusement, I wonder how many skeptics have actually seen any of the above animals outside of a wildlife habitat, while those who report said-encounters tend to have lived in said-areas all of their lives. It shouldn't be too difficult to decide whose opinions hold more weight. Now, I don't take every report of ANYTHING as the gospel truth, but I am familiar with both oposssums, and owls, and I can confidently assure my friends here they would fool very few as either "giant birds," or huge monster from a landed UFO. An owl has blamed for the Flatwoods creature, also, for the record.

Stay well, people. So far, the C-19 virus has had limited-impact on my own state, so, let us hope it remains that way.
 

Mikefule

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Anyone who has seen cormorants roosting in trees and spreading their wings to dry knows how a familiar bird can look large and sinister in silhouette.

Also, to those who are not familiar, it can be a surprise that many waterbirds such as herons, storks, egrets, or cranes (and even the humble mallard duck) can perch or nest high in trees.

When I used to live in the city, a feisty and tough female neighbour was terrified by the sight of a heron perched on the ridge of the roof of her house. In her own words, she had thought it was a "pterodactyl or something".

In the right conditions, particularly in profile against a twilight or night sky, things look bigger.

The attached picture is cropped from a photograph, not a painting.
 

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AlchoPwn

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No offense intended to anyone, of course, but I believe the various skeptics have tried to blame Moth Man via the use of owls. The late Daniel Cohen, if memory serves, attempted to "explain" the Flatwoods, WVA UFO "Monster,"(of the incident of 12 September, 1952), presumably an occupant of said-UFO seen shortly beforehand, as an opossum in a tree because in-part, I take it, that both tend to have eyes which are rather eerie at night. With some wry amusement, I wonder how many skeptics have actually seen any of the above animals outside of a wildlife habitat, while those who report said-encounters tend to have lived in said-areas all of their lives. It shouldn't be too difficult to decide whose opinions hold more weight. Now, I don't take every report of ANYTHING as the gospel truth, but I am familiar with both oposssums, and owls, and I can confidently assure my friends here they would fool very few as either "giant birds," or huge monster from a landed UFO. An owl has blamed for the Flatwoods creature, also, for the record. Stay well, people. So far, the C-19 virus has had limited-impact on my own state, so, let us hope it remains that way.
If this were limited to only a single person or a single cluster of events in one location I could dismiss it a lot more easily, but the fact is, there is a pattern of encounters in WVA and elsewhere. I am also prepared to accept the notion that some species of owls may even be responsible for some supposed extraterrestrial sightings, but not all of them. Plenty of people in rural areas see things that they can't explain. They are often pretty expert witnesses too, such as hunters who are well acquainted with tracks, appearance and habits of local wildlife, but their reports are dismissed with the typical "there are no rocks in the sky, ergo no rocks can fall from the sky" fashion that scientists take with people they assume are amateurs.
 

GhostofFort

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To be frank, I find some of these opinions both amusing, and sad at the same time. I came to expect this from those who deny the evidence of thei own eyes a long time ago, whether U.S., or European, though.

The unfortunate owl has been owl has been blamed for so much, it, too, would be funny, and I suspect, they would be offended even if they were more intelligent!

To be fair to programs like Paranormal - Caught on Camera, they DO often state the programs are for entertainment as much as an anything else, and advise people not to try to duplicate many of the bizarre-appearing stunts for their own safety. If you're going to damn something, give them some valid honor also when deserved.

I did view the Idaho footage again several times since yesterday, and the thing certainly seems to move very much like something alive, and not a model (although I felt certain this would be the first thing a denier would claim it to be, really). It must be a top-of-the-line version of a radio-controlled model, if such it is, which I consider unlikely myself. Let's do keep in mind as well, accounts of these things go WAY back into time, and aren't just something which appear in footage in TV programs.

For the record, the U.S. Forest Service has had an a policy ready to place Bigfoot, and/or similar creatures if a body is brought in, to be placed on the Protected Species act. So, it isn't just Forteans who have an interest in cryptozoology, whether it's an often-acknowledged position or not very often.
 

GhostofFort

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You might as well cease remarks on any of my threads. I know you "for what you are" all too well now, and will warn away as many as possible.
 

Jim

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No offense intended to anyone, of course, but I believe the various skeptics have tried to blame Moth Man via the use of owls. The late Daniel Cohen, if memory serves, attempted to "explain" the Flatwoods, WVA UFO "Monster,"(of the incident of 12 September, 1952), presumably an occupant of said-UFO seen shortly beforehand, as an opossum in a tree because in-part, I take it, that both tend to have eyes which are rather eerie at night. With some wry amusement, I wonder how many skeptics have actually seen any of the above animals outside of a wildlife habitat, while those who report said-encounters tend to have lived in said-areas all of their lives. It shouldn't be too difficult to decide whose opinions hold more weight. Now, I don't take every report of ANYTHING as the gospel truth, but I am familiar with both oposssums, and owls, and I can confidently assure my friends here they would fool very few as either "giant birds," or huge monster from a landed UFO. An owl has blamed for the Flatwoods creature, also, for the record.

Stay well, people. So far, the C-19 virus has had limited-impact on my own state, so, let us hope it remains that way.
Lucky Y don't live in NY, be safe all.
 

GhostofFort

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so long, dis-informants. I suppose it's a good thing Charles Fort isn't here to see his name purloined as you have done.

Forget any further comments. Have said all I intend to.
 

Yithian

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so long, dis-informants. I suppose it's a good thing Charles Fort isn't here to see his name purloined as you have done.

Forget any further comments. Have said all I intend to.

Cheerio.
 

madmath

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GhostofFort, if you're still reading, understand that most of us on this site want to learn more about unusual phenomena, creatures, events, and the like. We would appreciate shows like that IF they would present unexplained material with reasoned discussions by knowledgeable people.
Re-presenting old, debunked stories behind fancy graphics and hyperbolic narration diminishes Fortean studies.

Going back to the possibility of modern pterosaurs, the reasonable explanations are remote-controlled aircraft made in their shape, or sightings of large wading birds which have similar physical appearances. If some pterosaurs are alive, then we would need to see and study the actual animal up close; from them we could investigate how the animal lives on 65 millions years after their demise. If this were the case I would love to read those studies!
 

Sharon Hill

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If some pterosaurs are alive, then we would need to see and study the actual animal up close; from them we could investigate how the animal lives on 65 millions years after their demise. If this were the case I would love to read those studies!

"Investigate how the animal lives on 65 million years after their demise." There is a lot wrapped up in that.

Pterosaurs were VERY diverse; there are around 110 species of pterosaur currently known in about 85 genera, which is a low estimate because they don't fossilize well. Why are those described as cryptids only fitting to the pteranodon (head crest) or rhamphorynchus (fin tail) depiction in media? Extreme views often result from lack of information (or resistance to accepting that information). To conclude pterosaurs are still around is an extreme view.

We have no fossils that show any made it beyond the K-Pg boundary and such an animal could not hide from view as with small terrestrial or aquatic animals. It's romantic to think that large flying creatures could still exist in remote areas. It's not reasonable in any way to hold on to this idea that pterosaurs are still out there. And the evidence of eyewitness sightings is extremely poor, pretty much worthless. Sightings can be explained far better through invoking very human attributes. The same can be said for sauropod dinosaurs (therapod dinosaurs exist as birds if you choose to be technical and say they are still around).

I know, I know, people want to believe... but there is very good reason for pooh-poohing these claims entirely.
 

Nosmo King

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There is a 65 million year difference between pterosaurs and thylacines. What’s just as bad is that the living pterosaur stuff is promoted by Creationists who are not objective researchers.

There are positively no living pterosaurs. The reports of thunderbirds aren’t great either. Of all animals that people can mess up in terms of describing features and size, birds are second only to fish.
The prehistoric caelacanth is extinct too.. oh hangon a minute
indonesia_coelacanth_2.jpg
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Spring Heeled Spud

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The name "thunderbird" that native americans gave these things have always made me wonder if they weren't referring to pterosaurs etc at all but had been involved in some kind of time slip where they were actually seeing modern jets crossing the sky. Huge, bird like things making a rumbling sound as they flew over the American plains.

But then again I do self diagnose to doctors and am invariably wrong
 

blessmycottonsocks

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The name "thunderbird" that native americans gave these things have always made me wonder if they weren't referring to pterosaurs etc at all but had been involved in some kind of time slip where they were actually seeing modern jets crossing the sky. Huge, bird like things making a rumbling sound as they flew over the American plains.

But then again I do self diagnose to doctors and am invariably wrong

Problem is that none of the Native American Thunderbird totem carvings or other images look anything like either pterosaurs or aircraft.
They clearly depict large feathered birds with hooked beaks. Rather eagle-like in fact.

I suspect the artwork was created to revere the Golden Eagle - or just possibly as a semi-legendary memory of when larger ancestral forms of eagle were still extant (something like Haast's Eagle or even Argentavis magnificens).


bird.JPG
bird2.JPG
bird3.JPG
 

Sharon Hill

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Apparently there's been a "flap" of recent pterosaur sightings in North Carolina:

https://www.charlottestories.com/flying-dinosaurs-sightings-rise-north-carolina/

Comments range from agreeing with the sightings and posting anecdotes of their own, to scoffing and pointing out that the indigenous but rare Wood Stork also occupies the same territories.

So which is more likely?

This:

View attachment 41072


or this?:


View attachment 41073
I noticed the date on that article was April 1. And it contained a considerable amount attributed to Jonathan Whitcomb - a fool of high order.

People are generally very poor at identifying their local wildlife accurately so a bird will be really difficult. Modern media seems to have primed people to imagine an interpretation that isn't realistic (dinosaurs, pterosaurs in their neighborhoods).
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I noticed the date on that article was April 1. And it contained a considerable amount attributed to Jonathan Whitcomb - a fool of high order.

People are generally very poor at identifying their local wildlife accurately so a bird will be really difficult. Modern media seems to have primed people to imagine an interpretation that isn't realistic (dinosaurs, pterosaurs in their neighborhoods).

Absolutely. This is then compounded by Muldur's catchphrase "I want to believe".
The thought of extant pterosaurs is vastly more alluring than a Wood Stork with a stick in its beak, just as a spooky spaceman in a family photo in Cumberland is far sexier than an over-exposed shot of the mum's back.
Sometimes, I'm guilty of this too, as I want to believe that the Azores could possibly be what's left of the legendary Atlantis and that Brutus of Troy landed at Totnes some 3,000 years ago.
 
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