Local & Dialect Words

[catseye]

@catseye
Not heard 'Crabbit' before. I think in Derbyshire we used to say 'crabby' to mean the same (@Spookdaddy may tell us if my memory is correct or not). But I haven't heard it used for years now, in any case.

Crabbit is Scots. I was married to a Scot for some years and picked up some of the lingo.

 

[escargot]

Crabbit is Scots. I was married to a Scot for some years and picked up some of the lingo.

Had a boss who spoke with a faint but distinct Scottish accent. Like, she just rolled the 'r' sound.
When asked about it she'd say she'd picked it up when living in Scotland.

However, she didn't use any Scottish expressions like (say) 'crabbit' or even the usual 'Och'.
Not one 'Did ye aye?' which might have come up a lot in our line of work!

I learned that she'd lived in Scotland for a few years as an adult, certainly not enough time to go native. She was putting it on.

 

[catseye]

Had a boss who spoke with a faint but distinct Scottish accent. Like, she just rolled the 'r' sound.
When asked about it she'd say she'd picked it up when living in Scotland.

However, she didn't use any Scottish expressions like (say) 'crabbit' or even the usual 'Och'.
Not one 'Did ye aye?' which might have come up a lot in our line of work!

I learned that she'd lived in Scotland for a few years as an adult, certainly not enough time to go native. She was putting it on.

It's weird, some Scots dialect is just so perfect though. 'Crabbit' I think sums up perfectly that state of being a bit cross and snappy. Just like 'dreich' is perfect for that dreary grey nothing sort of weather. Those are pretty much the only two Scots words that have stayed with me.

Unlike the ex, who didn't...

 

[Floyd1]

Unlike the ex, who didn't...

He got lost on all those stairs..................

 

[pandacracker]

Just like 'dreich' is perfect for that dreary grey nothing sort of weather.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I use 'wee' and 'lass/lassie' a fair bit and have been known to mumble 'och, get te ...' under my breath on numerous occasions

Also, now I think about it, have sometimes used 'I dinnae ken' but seeing as I'm now surrounded by people who dinnae ken what I mean
I dinnae use it nay mair

 

[Ascalon]

There's little else that expresses true contempt for person or idea like:
"Get tae fu.."

Though, the Irish rendition of "I will, in me hole", shortened to "me hole", is quite effective too.
For people from that Dublin, hole may be substituted with 'hoop', for added colour.

Confusingly, rhyming slang also features, so "I will in me Swiss (Roll)" can, confusingly, be used in the same manner.

All for that authentic Irish cynicism.

 

[Spookdaddy]

...Just like 'dreich' is perfect for that dreary grey nothing sort of weather...

Dreich is perfect - it feels almost onomatopoeic, not in relation to the sound associated with the word, but for the feel. If that sort of weather made a sound, dreich would be it.

Sleekit is another one. The owner of the flat next to mine - who I have to deal with quite a lot - in my head, she makes that sound. (And splinters would definitely make a skelf sound, if they could.)

 

[escargot]

My old dear, not remotely Scottish, used to say 'Och awa' the noo an' pee yer kilt!'
It was, puzzlingly, apparently a family saying.

 

[Frideswide]

My old dear, not remotely Scottish, used to say 'Och awa' the noo an' pee yer kilt!'
It was, puzzlingly, apparently a family saying.

 

[Victory]

It's weird, some Scots dialect is just so perfect though. Just like 'dreich' is perfect for that dreary grey nothing sort of weather.

Interesting to me that in Yiddish we use "Dreck", which means rubbish trash.

Yiddish being largely based on an old form of German (though origins in a part of Turkey as per latest research) and Scots and German having a degree of mutual understanding.

 

[Ermintruder]

it feels almost onomatopoeic, not in relation to the sound associated with the word, but for the feel

I'm incapable of being objective about this (as someone who was brought-up unconsciously bilingual in both Bringlish and Scots) but I've noticed that many non-Scots/Lallans speakers of English do instantly-understand certain chunks of Scots vocabulary. Not just via context and and inference: it's as if it unconsciously makes sense at a deeper level.

If I've described something as being 'shoogly' to a Cornishman, they seem to get that instantly (meaning: shaking/unstable, both literally and metaphorically).

If I call someone or something 'glaikit' (stupid, brainless) many older indigenous Londoners will get that right away.

This might be due to life-long unconscious rare exposures to these words via media: but....conversely, there's no doubt that in exactly the same way Scots language is undoubtedly-dying in Scotland amongst new generations at home, it is also definitely on the wane everywhere else, too.

The use of Scots causes massive confusion amongst contemporary 'New Britons' (eg UK-domiciled ethnic Eastern Europeans, or those of Asian heritage) with tiny notable exceptions. Similarly, it makes no sense to Americans (another reason for its polite suppression in most shared settings). Conversely, older Canadians/Australians/New Zealanders/white Africans tend to understand a lot more Scots language than they think they do

As a repeated observation: the one time everyone in the English-speaking world suddenly goes back to trying to speak in Scots/OE is every year at Hogmanay/New Year, with the uncertain chanting of 'Auld Lang Syne' (this is both a very-good & very-bad example of such atavistic language capabilities).

 

[Spookdaddy]

I'm incapable of being objective about this (as someone who was brought-up unconsciously bilingual in both Bringlish and Scots) but I've noticed that many non-Scots/Lallans speakers of English do instantly-understand certain chunks of Scots vocabulary. Not just via context and and inference: it's as if it unconsciously makes sense at a deeper level...

I totally agree. Of course, the immediate context may well give a big hint - the first time I heard hoaching (another good one) was very probably in busy bar, so possibly deducible via context.

But still - some words seem to make themselves understandable by their 'feel' (for want of a better description).

 

[Ermintruder]

But still - some words seem to make themselves understandable by their 'feel' (for want of a better description).

Exactly!

On a (semi-related) humorous note, here's a bit of socio-linguistic fun from the late & great Stanley Baxter, from his 'Parliamo Glesca' pantheon.

It's also worth bearing in mind that this isn't actually Scots/Lallans either....

(and: to be totally-pedantic, the original natives of Strathclywdd in fact spoke proto-Welsh, rather than either Scots or Gaelic)

 

[pandacracker]

Just thought of another Scots phrase that's now in my vocabulary

'Dirty wee scunner'

 

[Coal]

Just thought of another Scots phrase that's now in my vocabulary

'Dirty wee scunner'

Miss Tick was assured that this means "A person of generally unpleasant disposition."

 

[pandacracker]

When I lived in Glasgow I found it really difficult not to speak with the Scottish cadence.

I quite liked it (partly because I was a pretentious drama student) but was nevertheless aware that it could come across as
patronising.

In third year we did classes in Scots verse which was tough for me but enjoyable.

 

[charliebrown]

The wife and I watched an old British comedy called “ Still Game “ set in Scotland.

If we did not have the English subtitles, we would not know anything that was said.

 

[Ermintruder]

an old British comedy called “ Still Game “ set in Scotland

This series still has a massive cult following in Scotland & the Scots diaspora, and is treated with huge (and justified) affection by many.

It deliberately remains in a permanent Scots language vocal key, but I can assure you @charliebrown that many older (and not-so-old) Scots can & do speak versions of English that are much more accented and challenging for outsiders to understand than the milder broadcast version.

Created by the stars of the show themselves (Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill, the main protagonists 'Jack & Victor', who effectively play older exaggerated versions of themselves, as do most of the others in the superb ensemble cast) certainly do use some limited Scots vocabulary, but in essence they tend to speak a deliberately-simplified version of Scots English for the script (with a medium-strength Scottish accent) and use just a select sub-set of more-common Scots vocabulary. BBC Scotland (in common with all Scottish mainstream media providers) are highly-adept at walking the line atween extremities o' rauch Scots Inglish an' ower-posh pan-loaf Soothmoothery.

A notable New Scot exponent of Scots language in the series is the universally-loved Asian shopkeeper Navid (played by the wonderful Sanjeev Kohli) and he skillfully spins a realistic multiglot accent, blending Hindi/Punjabi Scots & Bringlish strands of language into a humorous yet not-disrespectful reality.

Also: here is Sanjeev doing a wonderful contemporary reinterpretation of Scots poetry in the style of the universally-acclaimed Robert Burns: 'Tae A Samosa'

 

[Spookdaddy]

Interesting to me that in Yiddish we use "Dreck", which means rubbish trash.

It's weird, some Scots dialect is just so perfect though.

By coincidence I am currently in the midst of reading both, The Books of Jacob, by Olga Tokarczuk (in manageable stages - it's a bit of a breezeblock), and Graeme MaCrae Burnet's, His Bloody Project. Which contain, respectively, an interesting smattering of Yiddish and Scots.

Not heard 'Crabbit' before. I think in Derbyshire we used to say 'crabby' to mean the same (@Spookdaddy may tell us if my memory is correct or not). But I haven't heard it used for years now, in any case.

Crabby definitely, but I always assumed that was pretty universal. The area of Derbyshire where I grew up is, in many ways, quite distinct from the rest of the county, our north west highland corner having more in common, I think, with Yorkshire and Lancs - which is generally where people tend to go for when guessing at my accent. The Derbyshire accent becomes gradually more 'This is England' as you head east and south.

Growing up I remember ancient relatives using cloud and low for a hill or highland area. Both are present in written placenames, although the former is rare. Low is much more common - leading to potentially rather confusing usage such as 'going up the low', and the oddly contradictorily named High Low, near Bakewell (not to be confused with the Highlow up towards Sheffield).

Low is quite interesting. As I said, it can be used for a hill, but in actual place names it is often (in fact, I suspect generally) associated with tumuli, which are generally on higher ground - so it kind of makes sense. But in the context of the place name, I think low can occasionally be associated with places that are not necessarily geographically prominent.

Yon and thon were common (I still - without irony - use yon for 'over there' or 'that one there'). Kettle for a small valley, the old-school kine for cattle, iss for ash, hob for a fairy, ghost or anything else a bit uncanny - I'm sure there's loads more examples, but, to e honest, I recall the sometimes impenetrable accents more than I do individual words.

One usage, which I think is local, and I always hated - probably solely because it was adopted, exaggerated and then massively overused by school age lads when I was growing up - was a form of endearment, in the sense of 'mucker' or 'buddy'. The actual usage was probably something like m'howd (for 'my old' - I assume a shortening of something like 'my old mate/mucker/buddy'). At school this became some like, meeee'heeewddd - the memory of which still sets my teeth on edge to this day.

 

[catseye]

Just thought of another Scots phrase that's now in my vocabulary

'Dirty wee scunner'

'Scunner' is also used down here in Yorkshire. In fact we have quite a cross over linguistically with lowland Scots, possibly because of geographical proximity, but most likely because of our large influx of Scots visitors. We also don't turn a hair at Scots fivers and tenners.

 

[Floyd1]

By coincidence I am currently in the midst of reading both, The Books of Jacob, by Olga Tokarczuk (in manageable stages - it's a bit of a breezeblock), and Graeme MaCrae Burnet's, His Bloody Project. Which contain, respectively, an interesting smattering of Yiddish and Scots.



Crabby definitely, but I always assumed that was pretty universal. The area of Derbyshire where I grew up is, in many ways, quite distinct from the rest of the county, our north west highland corner having more in common, I think, with Yorkshire and Lancs - which is generally where people tend to go for when guessing at my accent. The Derbyshire accent becomes gradually more 'This is England' as you head east and south.

Growing up I remember ancient relatives using cloud and low for a hill or highland area. Both are present in written placenames, although the former is rare. Low is much more common - leading to potentially rather confusing usage such as 'going up the low', and the oddly contradictorily named High Low, near Bakewell (not to be confused with the Highlow up towards Sheffield).

Low is quite interesting. As I said, it can be used for a hill, but in actual place names it is often (in fact, I suspect generally) associated with tumuli, which are generally on higher ground - so it kind of makes sense. But in the context of the place name, I think low can occasionally be associated with places that are not necessarily geographically prominent.

Yes, and I was always under the impression that 'low' was a Saxon place name.

One usage, which I think is local, and I always hated - probably solely because it was adopted, exaggerated and then massively overused by school age lads when I was growing up - was a form of endearment, in the sense of 'mucker' or 'buddy'. The actual usage was probably something like m'howd (for 'my old' - I assume a shortening of something like 'my old mate/mucker/buddy'). At school this became some like, meeee'heeewddd - the memory of which still sets my teeth on edge to this day.

I remember 'm'howd' being used on occasion. Also 'sen' for 'self' as in 'he did it himsen.'

 

[Min Bannister]

kine for cattle,

That is interesting. It is kye/kyloe in some parts of Scotland.

 

[catseye]

Yes, and I was always under the impression that 'low' was a Saxon place name.

I remember 'm'howd' being used on occasion. Also 'sen' for 'self' as in 'he did it himsen.'

Some of the old farmers round here still talk in broad Yorkshire dialect, and they say 'hissen' and 'thi'sen' for himself and thy (your) self.

'Tha'll have to do it thissen,' is very common. They also use 'aye' for yes.

 

[Floyd1]

Some of the old farmers round here still talk in broad Yorkshire dialect, and they say 'hissen' and 'thi'sen' for himself and thy (your) self.

'Tha'll have to do it thissen,' is very common. They also use 'aye' for yes.

'Aye' was definitely used as well.

My Grandad occasionally used to say 'alus' for always.

 

[catseye]

'Aye' was definitely used as well.

My Grandad occasionally used to say 'alus' for always.

I'm never sure whether 'allus' is dialect or just pronunciation.

 

[Frideswide]

This series still has a massive cult following in Scotland & the Scots diaspora, and is treated with huge (and justified) affection by many.

It deliberately remains in a permanent Scots language vocal key, but I can assure you @charliebrown that many older (and not-so-old) Scots can & do speak versions of English that are much more accented and challenging for outsiders to understand than the milder broadcast version.

Created by the stars of the show themselves (Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill, the main protagonists 'Jack & Victor', who effectively play older exaggerated versions of themselves, as do most of the others in the superb ensemble cast) certainly do use some limited Scots vocabulary, but in essence they tend to speak a deliberately-simplified version of Scots English for the script (with a medium-strength Scottish accent) and use just a select sub-set of more-common Scots vocabulary. BBC Scotland (in common with all Scottish mainstream media providers) are highly-adept at walking the line atween extremities o' rauch Scots Inglish an' ower-posh pan-loaf Soothmoothery.

A notable New Scot exponent of Scots language in the series is the universally-loved Asian shopkeeper Navid (played by the wonderful Sanjeev Kohli) and he skillfully spins a realistic multiglot accent, blending Hindi/Punjabi Scots & Bringlish strands of language into a humorous yet not-disrespectful reality.

Have we mentioned the BBC Radio4 series Fags, Mags and Bags? Recommended!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fags,_Mags_and_Bags

 

[escargot]

Have we mentioned the BBC Radio4 series Fags, Mags and Bags? Recommended!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fags,_Mags_and_Bags

One off my favourites!

 

[Frideswide]

One off my favourites!

It's MUCH softer as far as the accents and words go - so it might be a good stepping stone to the glory that is Still Game.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Yes, and I was always under the impression that 'low' was a Saxon place name...

I think it's from the Saxon, hlaw - for, I believe, burial mound. 'Low' occurs in placenames across the UK, but I'm sure I've read that it's notably common in Derbyshire.

Here be Minninglow - to my mind, one of the most atmospheric of Derbyshire/Peak District lows:

It has the look and atmosphere of somewhere one of M R James' protagonists might think a quite nice place for a bit of an explore - only to realise his mistake far too late in the day. In fact, I now realise that when I visualise the site of Paxton's fateful dig in A Warning to the Curious, I transpose Minninglow to the Suffolk coast.

A nice winter view from above:

 

[Victory]

By coincidence I am currently in the midst of reading both, The Books of Jacob, by Olga Tokarczuk (in manageable stages - it's a bit of a breezeblock), a

An extraordinary subject, one which to this day still affects those in power (allegedly.) But that's taking this thread on a tangent.