Lost Cities & Towns

[ramonmercado]

'Lost city' ruins uncovered

Experts believe that they have uncovered the remains of a medieval city which disappeared 700 years ago near Trellech in Monmouthshire.
Archaeologists have unearthed two buildings dating back to the 1200s.

Historical evidence shows that one of the largest settlements in Wales during 13th century is somewhere in the area.

But archaeologists have said the exact location has never been pin-pointed, and they hope that the excavations have revealed the lost city.


Stuart Wilson, who is part of Monmouth Archaeological Society, said he was convinced the dig would reveal further evidence of the city's existence a few miles south of the present-day village of Trellech.

"For a long time, we thought the city was near the church in the village," he said.


We believe that it was an alien town set up by the Norman French and that in 1296 there was a battle where the Welsh destroyed it
Stephen Clarke

"But we found nothing during our excavations so we started looking elsewhere."

Groups of volunteers have unearthed the remains of two dwellings which they think could be part of the 400-house city, undetected for the past seven centuries.

"I say it's a city because it had so many more burgages [houses] than Cardiff at the time of its existence," said Mr Wilson.

"The first house we found dates to 1250 but we have found evidence that there was a serious fire which destroyed it."

Mr Wilson said they came to the location of what they think is the buried city by studying the landscape for tell-tale dips and flats which suggested that houses had once been there.

They began an excavation and discovered the remains of ancient walls which turned out to be houses.

Chairman of the society Stephen Clarke said he was "convinced" the remains were those of the lost city.


"We believe that it was an alien town set up by the Norman French and that in 1296 there was a battle where the Welsh destroyed it," he said.
"And this is backed up by the evidence of the fire.

"It has been absolutely amazing to find it because for 30 years we were looking for it in the village.

"But we could find nothing on any of the digs we made and now it looks as though we are right on top of it."

It is thought that the settlement housed workers for the iron industry of the area - society members have described it as being the "Medieval Merthyr".

Stuart Wilson is so convinced that they have located the town that he has even bought a field which is believed to have hundreds of the lost city's homes buried in it.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_east/3559534.stm

Published: 2004/08/13 05:47:59 GMT

© BBC MMIV

 

[gerhard1]

What lost cities does anyone here believe in? There are several that I wonder about, and that I would put in the 'un-proven' category, some that are merely doubtful and some that are total hogwash.

In the first category, I would put 'Z', the city sought by British explorer, Percy Fawcett. There are several reports of lost cities in the Amazon region, and it strikes me as a distinct possibility that they might very well exist.

Here is a link to a story about a Portuguese expedition from the 1740's that was said to have come across such a city.

http://www.phfawcettsweb.org/portu.htm#1

Fawcett discovered this report and it induced him to seek the city that he called 'Z', and was preparing to look for when World War One intervened, and he was delayed for several years, finally getting underway in 1925 and later that year, he disappeared.

Some doubt that 'Z' exists at all, and to be honest, there is little evidence to support it beyond the linked report.

Akakor, (or Akator) is a city that I'd put in the 'hogwash' column, as the only evidence favoring it, is from a German writer named Karl Brugger, who was murdered in 1984. This is the city mentioned in the Indiana Jones film, BTW. The late Phil Coppens did a good job debunking this story and it is on his website. Here is a link.

http://www.philipcoppens.com/akahim.html

There are others, such as the City of the Caesars allegedly in Patagonia; Burrungu, in either Western Australia or the Northern Territory; Paitite in either Peru or Ecuador; the city allegedly found in the Kalahari in southern Africa; Iram of the Pillars in the Empty Quarter in Oman or Sa'udi Arabia. There are even reports of unknown cities in the interior of Alaska, although I'd tend to put these either in the doubtful or hogwash categories.

What are others?

 

[XBergMann]

I have never been able to find Slough ...does that count?

 

[Heckler]

I have found Slough, I subsequently wished it was lost.

 

[GNC]

There's a film about Z out soon, be interesting to see what conclusions it draws.

 

[EnolaGaia]

What lost cities does anyone here believe in? There are several that I wonder about, and that I would put in the 'un-proven' category, some that are merely doubtful and some that are total hogwash.

In the first category, I would put 'Z', the city sought by British explorer, Percy Fawcett. There are several reports of lost cities in the Amazon region, and it strikes me as a distinct possibility that they might very well exist. ...

Regarding the various lost city legends from the Amazon region ... For a long time I tended to discount such legends as more likely apocryphal than similar legends from other regions. In the last couple of decades, however, it's become apparent there were numerous Pre-Columbian 'cities' in the Amazon basin, complete with sizable earthworks. The evidence had been hidden in the jungle landscape until (a) farming-motivated deforestation and / or (b) sophisticated satellite-based scanning revealed their remanent landforms.

As a result, I've recalibrated my thinking to accommodate the fact there were previously-unrecognized large-scale settlements to which (or at least to whose ruins ... ) the legends almost certainly referred.

At this point, very little is known about these newly-recognized ancient societies. We may never know much about them, insofar as the region's environment offered little stone for construction and conditions well-suited for rapid deterioration of whatever structures (etc.) such societies created.

I won't yet go so far as to claim there were Pre-Columbian civilizations as sophisticated as (e.g.) the Mayans, but at least I can finally see how the legends arose.

 

[chicorea]

Iram of the Pillars AKA Ubar AKA Atlantis of the Sands have a list of candidates to identify its actual location:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_of_the_Sands

 

[chicorea]

The discovery (and the further interpretations of what they supposedly mean) of earthworks in the Amazon basin have been extensively covered by the press :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...arthworks-resembling-stonehenge-found-amazon/

Two recent books "The Lost City Of Z" and "1491"mention this discoveries.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I have never been able to find Slough ...does that count?

I had the great misfortune of working in Slough in the 1980s.
I can verify that it exists.

 

[GNC]

Two recent books "The Lost City Of Z" and "1491"mention this discoveries.

The former is what that new film is based on.

 

[chicorea]

Well, I think it's fair that I issue a Spoiler Alert: if you never read David Gann's book or want to watch the film, please skip the next lines and don't spoil your pleasure in reading/watching"The Lost City Of Z".
This said, I find it interesting that while Gann's book present the Amazonian earthworks and its significance as the climax of the story, in Chales Mann's book (1491), they are there since the introduction, as a sign of the fact that we know very few about the life and the people of the Americas before 1492.
By the way, there is a Brazilian book, "Fawcett", written by Hermes Leal, that casts its own conclusions about Z, Fawcett and the lost cities in the jungle. It's far from the attractive style of Gann's book but it presents a counterpoint to his conclusions.
Just a last comment: back in the XVIIIth century it would be unlikely that a Portuguese expedition reaches Mato Grosso. If the document 502 is credible, it would be the "sertao" of Bahia, next the Goias border. By the time the story is suppose to happen this area would still be Spanish territory (Tordesillas, the Borgias, you know...).

 

[gerhard1]

Although not technically a 'lost city' Nan Madol on the island of Pohnpei in Micronesia is interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nan_Madol

 

[Draheste]

I love Atlantis, even if I think it is all hogwash invented by a clever Plato. I like to think, though, that around 13 000 years ago, there was somewhere in the Canary Island, a city and a country as advanced as Minoan crete and lost under the waves, after the great melting. Their surviving descendants could have been responsible for erecting Stonehenge, Avebury, Carnac and all the megaliths. I know, a bit John Mitchell and 'Realisme Fantastique', but I like stories, especially of that kind.

 

[gerhard1]

The city allegedly found in the Kalahari might be a natural formation. I believe t is too soon to say for certain, however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_City_of_the_Kalahari

 

[EnolaGaia]

The city allegedly found in the Kalahari might be a natural formation. I believe t is too soon to say for certain, however. ...

Above and beyond the failure to locate any archeological ruins matching Farini's claims - which weren't consistent between his writings and his post-expedition lectures - the natural formation(s) theory emerged from the analysis and follow-up trek of one A. J. Clement in 1964.

Clament's essay on his conclusions (Farini's "Lost City" of the Kalahari: The Probable Solution) can be accessed in PDF format at:

http://journals.co.za/docserver/ful...est&checksum=C1DD7EC6393DFDB91CAFAAED2957228D

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Just watched the Expedition Unknown episode about the Kalahari lost city.
Reasonably convincing evidence for a largish abandoned settlement - extensive stone walls, enclosures and artwork, in the southern Kalahari. Spotting the same landmarks as in Farini's photos seems pretty compelling.

 

[gerhard1]

There are reports of some ancient ruins having been found in Death Valley, California. However, no geographic coordinates were given. I looked for them on Google maps, but found nothing. With no geographic coordinates and no directions such ruins are exceedingly hard to find.

I intend to keep looking, as I find the subject interesting.

 

[gerhard1]

There are reports of some ancient ruins having been found in Death Valley, California. However, no geographic coordinates were given. I looked for them on Google maps, but found nothing. With no geographic coordinates and no directions such ruins are exceedingly hard to find.

I intend to keep looking, as I find the subject interesting.

There are several youtube videos on this and there are also a number of on-line articles on it like this one.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ca-deathvalleyundergroundcity.html

 

[gerhard1]

Just watched the Expedition Unknown episode about the Kalahari lost city.
Reasonably convincing evidence for a largish abandoned settlement - extensive stone walls, enclosures and artwork, in the southern Kalahari. Spotting the same landmarks as in Farini's photos seems pretty compelling.

Here is the youtube video.

 

[ramonmercado]

Here is the youtube video.

Thanks for that, saved for viewing latter.

 

[Mythopoeika]

The writing in that vid is round the wrong way.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Yes. My first hit was on that crappy, mirror-image upload. I noticed it was wrong when his steering wheel was on the left. There are a few others the correct way around. You may still have to zoom and crop to get a decent image though.

 

[gerhard1]

Yes. My first hit was on that crappy, mirror-image upload. I noticed it was wrong when his steering wheel was on the left. There are a few others the correct way around. You may still have to zoom and crop to get a decent image though.

Good point. I have to keep in mind that many if not most of you are in the UK.

 

[XBergMann]

I love Atlantis, even if I think it is all hogwash invented by a clever Plato. I like to think, though, that around 13 000 years ago, there was somewhere in the Canary Island, a city and a country as advanced as Minoan crete and lost under the waves, after the great melting. Their surviving descendants could have been responsible for erecting Stonehenge, Avebury, Carnac and all the megaliths. I know, a bit John Mitchell and 'Realisme Fantastique', but I like stories, especially of that kind.

Graham Hancock's various books on us being a species with amnesia are worth a read in that case, especially Fingerprints of the Gods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods

 

[gerhard1]

What lost cities does anyone here believe in? There are several that I wonder about, and that I would put in the 'un-proven' category, some that are merely doubtful and some that are total hogwash.

In the first category, I would put 'Z', the city sought by British explorer, Percy Fawcett. There are several reports of lost cities in the Amazon region, and it strikes me as a distinct possibility that they might very well exist.

Here is a link to a story about a Portuguese expedition from the 1740's that was said to have come across such a city.

http://www.phfawcettsweb.org/portu.htm#1

Fawcett discovered this report and it induced him to seek the city that he called 'Z', and was preparing to look for when World War One intervened, and he was delayed for several years, finally getting underway in 1925 and later that year, he disappeared.

Some doubt that 'Z' exists at all, and to be honest, there is little evidence to support it beyond the linked report.

Akakor, (or Akator) is a city that I'd put in the 'hogwash' column, as the only evidence favoring it, is from a German writer named Karl Brugger, who was murdered in 1984. This is the city mentioned in the Indiana Jones film, BTW. The late Phil Coppens did a good job debunking this story and it is on his website. Here is a link.

http://www.philipcoppens.com/akahim.html

There are others, such as the City of the Caesars allegedly in Patagonia; Burrungu, in either Western Australia or the Northern Territory; Paitite in either Peru or Ecuador; the city allegedly found in the Kalahari in southern Africa; Iram of the Pillars in the Empty Quarter in Oman or Sa'udi Arabia. There are even reports of unknown cities in the interior of Alaska, although I'd tend to put these either in the doubtful or hogwash categories.

What are others?

Concerning the Alaska city, mentioned in the OP, here is its' story:

The story was that during the 1880's a prospector and some companions, some Native and some White, went by steam launch up the Yukon River for several days and then went north via a branch of the Yukon. After several weeks of hard traveling, they came across a waterfall that took them three days to get around and then they continued north and made camp for the winter.

One day the prospector was about to go stir-crazy and he decided to do some exploring. Taking one of his native companions with him, he went north for a couple of days, and when he reached the top of a ridge, he looked down in valley on the opposite side and saw several miles away a city. He and his native friend went down and looked around. It was covered with ice and breaking some of the ice away with his axe, he discovered that it was apparently made of wood that had attained a stone-like texture.

There are a number of problems with the story. One is that this was the era of 'hoax' journalism. It could very well just be a yarn made up either to fill space or to sell newspapers, by either the prospector, the newspaper, or both. The second problem is that even given the story being true, the location is extremely vague. We don't know which branch of the Yukon (which runs clear across Alaska) is the one that they went up. We don't know what water fall they by-passed either. If we knew either of these things, it would help a great deal in locating it. The Yukon runs for at least 1000 miles in Alaska alone and has numerous tributaries that empty into it from the north.

Yet another problem is that I am not aware of any native folklore about this city. But I'm not that familiar with native folklore, so the fact that I am not aware of any means essentially nothing.

This, then is the story. It comes, in case anyone wants to read it for themselves, from a book called Strange Stories of Alaska and the Yukon by one Ed Ferrell.

 

[Draheste]

Graham Hancock's various books on us being a species with amnesia are worth a read in that case, especially Fingerprints of the Gods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods

I always ment to read those books, for their entertainment value.
I watched the 'documentaries' Underworld: The Mysterious Origins of Civilization,and enjoyed it, suspending my inbuilt fortean scepticism for an hour each week. I didn' really like when he was doubting that the Mayans could have built their monuments unaided. I felt there was a whiff of racism, somewhere.

 

[Draheste]

Concerning the Alaska city, mentioned in the OP, here is its' story:

The story was that during the 1880's a prospector and some companions, some Native and some White, went by steam launch up the Yukon River for several days and then went north via a branch of the Yukon. After several weeks of hard traveling, they came across a waterfall that took them three days to get around and then they continued north and made camp for the winter.

One day the prospector was about to go stir-crazy and he decided to do some exploring. Taking one of his native companions with him, he went north for a couple of days, and when he reached the top of a ridge, he looked down in valley on the opposite side and saw several miles away a city. He and his native friend went down and looked around. It was covered with ice and breaking some of the ice away with his axe, he discovered that it was apparently made of wood that had attained a stone-like texture.

There are a number of problems with the story. One is that this was the era of 'hoax' journalism. It could very well just be a yarn made up either to fill space or to sell newspapers, by either the prospector, the newspaper, or both. The second problem is that even given the story being true, the location is extremely vague. We don't know which branch of the Yukon (which runs clear across Alaska) is the one that they went up. We don't what water fall they by-passed either. If we knew either of these things, it would help a great deal in locating it. The Yukon runs for at least 1000 miles in Alaska alone and has numerous tributaries that empty into it from the north.

Yet another problem is that I am not aware of any native folklore about this city. But I'm not that familiar with native folklore, so the fact that I am not aware of any means essentially nothing.

This, then is the story. It comes, in case anyone wants to read it for themselves, from a book called Strange Stories of Alaska and the Yukon by one Ed Ferrell.

Could that story have inspired HP Lovecraft, who was an avid reader, when he wrote at the Mountains of Madness?

 

[AgProv]

I'm wondering what exciteable people might have made of Dunwich - if we didn't have solid historical and architectural evidence allowing us to piece the story together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-35549952

Just off the coast of East Anglia is a "lost city", now underwater, that was big enough to have sustained four churches. all the ingredients are there: long decline of what was once the tenth largest town in England, and several nights of storms resulting in its being wiped off the map in almost its entirety. To compare, the tenth largest town in England today is Swindon. Imagine a catastrophe that were to wipe Swindon off the map of Britain in less than a week. That would leave an imprint on the collective consciousness, I suspect! (And on Wiltshire).

 

[XBergMann]

I always ment to read those books, for their entertainment value.
I watched the 'documentaries' Underworld: The Mysterious Origins of Civilization,and enjoyed it, suspending my inbuilt fortean scepticism for an hour each week. I didn' really like when he was doubting that the Mayans could have built their monuments unaided. I felt there was a whiff of racism, somewhere.

He does make a very good case for his theories, I too, started reading it on a crackpot theory information background kick but ended up largely in agreement with GD's theories.

Some of his lectures which can be found on youtube and run on for several hours are also worth watching, there is even one on his Fingerprints of the Gods work which can be viewed here

 

[Coal]

Imagine a catastrophe that were to wipe Swindon off the map of Britain in less than a week. That would leave an imprint on the collective consciousness, I suspect!

Are you sure that's the best example?