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The idea of the ancient greeks not having a word for blue does seem a bit fanciful.

'Hi Stavros, see you are going paint your house; what colours are you going to use. ?'

'Oh. the usual. white and that other colour'.
 
The idea of the ancient greeks not having a word for blue does seem a bit fanciful.

'Hi Stavros, see you are going paint your house; what colours are you going to use. ?'

'Oh. the usual. white and that other colour'.

This surely derives from Gladstone’s analysis of Homer in the 19th century, and of Homer’s famous description of the sea not as “blue” but as οἶνοψ πόντος - “wine-dark”.

See here for more info.

maximus otter
 
The idea of the ancient greeks not having a word for blue does seem a bit fanciful. 'Hi Stavros, see you are going paint your house; what colours are you going to use. ?' 'Oh. the usual. white and that other colour'.
You are quite correct to be skeptical INT21. There is also a grain of truth to the claim tho.

In fact Greek has not one word for blue but many. The language really only adopted a single term for "Blue" as a unifying class term for a series colors as a result of becoming increasingly anglophone. Prior to that they prefer terms like indigo, azure, cerulean, cornflower (yeah, their Greek equivalents, I am translating).

There is a tribe in Papua New Guinea that has no word for blue at all, and classes it as a form of green. In fact, as color is all part of a continuous spectrum of visible light, where one draws the line on what qualifies as a distinct color is surprisingly subjective across cultures.
 
You are quite correct to be skeptical INT21. There is also a grain of truth to the claim tho.

In fact Greek has not one word for blue but many. The language really only adopted a single term for "Blue" as a unifying class term for a series colors as a result of becoming increasingly anglophone. Prior to that they prefer terms like indigo, azure, cerulean, cornflower (yeah, their Greek equivalents, I am translating).

There is a tribe in Papua New Guinea that has no word for blue at all, and classes it as a form of green. In fact, as color is all part of a continuous spectrum of visible light, where one draws the line on what qualifies as a distinct color is surprisingly subjective across cultures.

Good post. I have heard of a tribe that lives in the forest and has no word for "green". Whether it is true or apocryphal, I know not. It seems to be the opposite phenomenon to the (apocryphal) story that Eskimos have [insert large number] words for snow."

My view with the "wine dark sea" is that calling the Mediterranean "blue" is stating the obvious, but emphasising one characteristic (its darkness) says something about its mood on that occasion, which is what poetry is all about.

For comparison, in English folksong (most of which was composed and printed for sale in Victorian times) there are few references to the blue sea, but many references to the "salt tide" and the "foaming tide" and so on.

There is also a comparison in poetry with the Norse "kenning", where the sea was described using some formula such as "the whale road", and a sword was a "wound hoe" and a ship a "waves horse".
 
There is also a comparison in poetry with the Norse "kenning", where the sea was described using some formula such as "the whale road", and a sword was a "wound hoe" and a ship a "waves horse".
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world" - Percy Bysshe Shelley
I loved finding out about Kennings for the first time. It provided a completely alternative answer and approach to the issue of linguistic drift, as well as its more artistic merits.
 
Ancient 'lost city' of the Khmer Empire uncovered in Cambodia

(CNN) — Researchers have identified the elusive ancient "lost city" of Cambodia for the first time, according to a report published Tuesday.
In a project that has spanned years, an international group of scientists used aerial laser scans and ground-based surveying to map Mahendraparvata, or the Mountain of Indra, King of the Gods.

Mahendraparvata was one of the first capitals in the Khmer Empire, which lasted from the 9th to 15th centuries AD, but much of what we know come from inscriptions recovered from other sites. Scientists theorized that the city was located on the Phnom Kulen plateau, about 48 kilometers (about 30 miles) north of Siem Reap, but it was difficult to find evidence. The plateau was remote, inaccessible, covered with vegetation, and potentially home to landmines installed by the Khmer Rouge regime in the 1970s.
Shrouded in mystery for decades, Mahendraparvata has been dubbed the "lost city." Now, scientists say they have identified it for certain.

Amazing!
 
'Lost' ancient town uncovered in Ethiopia was once part of the powerful Aksum empire that dominated East Africa and rivalled Rome

Source: dailymail.co.uk
Date: 10 December, 2019

A village in Ethiopia has been discovered which belonged to the little-known Empire of Aksum - a bustling, sprawling metropolis to rival Rome that survived for centuries.

The Empire dominated much of Eastern Africa from the first century BC through to 825AD and rivalled its Roman contemporary in size and power.

The town predates the empire's rise by several centuries and is thought to have been inhabited between 80BC and 650AD.

It has been given the name Beta Samati - meaning 'house of audience' in the local Tigrinya language.

Its enormous historical importance comes as it proves settlements that existed before the rise of the Empire thrived before and after Askum emerged.

It is one of the only settlements from the Empire ever found and contains various buildings, an ancient Aksumite basilica and a range of individual items.

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.amp...uncovered-Ethiopia-powerful-Aksum-empire.html
 
Hattusa: The Cursed City of the Hatti and the Hittite Empire

Source: ancient-origins.net
Date: 3 March, 2020

Hattusa, also known as Hattusha, is an ancient city located near modern Boğazkale in the Çorum Province of Turkey’s Black Sea Region . This ancient city once served as the capital of the Hittite Empire, one of the superpowers of the ancient world.

In the Amarna Letters , which have been dated to the 14th century BC, the Hittites were referred to by the Egyptians as a major power, alongside Assyria, Mitanni, and Babylonia, and they were treated as equals.

Hattusa was established by the Hatti, the indigenous people who were living in that area prior to the coming of the Hittites. The origins of the Hittites are still a mystery, and they may have invaded / immigrated into Hatti territory, settled, and established their empire there.

Establishment of Hattusa

During the 3rd millennium BC, the Hatti had established a city state based on Hattusa. At this point of time, Hattusa was one of the many small city states in the region. Another possible city state of the Hatti is Kanesh, which is located close to Hattusa. A trading colony / colonies is / are said to have been established by the Assyrians around 2000 BC, and the name of Hattusa is first discovered from written documents dated to that period of time.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/anc...a-cursed-city-hatti-and-hittite-empire-005670
 
RUINS OF A 3000-YEAR-OLD ARMENIAN CASTLE FOUND IN LAKE VAN – TURKEY

Source: archaeology-world.com
Date: 3 March, 2020

The 3,000-year-old remains of an ancient fortification have been discovered at the bottom of Turkey’s largest lake. The underwater excavations were led by Van Yüzüncü Yıl University and the governorship of Turkey’s eastern Bitlis Province.

The castle is said to belong to the Iron Age Armenian civilization also known as the Kingdom of Van, Urartu, Ararat and Armenia. The lake itself is believed to have been formed by a crater caused by a volcanic eruption of Mount Nemrut near the province of Van. The current water level of the reservoir is about 150 meters higher than it was during the Iron Age.

Divers exploring Lake Van discovered the incredibly well-preserved wall of a castle, thought to have been built by the Urartu civilization. Experts had been studying the body of water for a decade before it revealed the fortress lost deep below its surface.

https://www.archaeology-world.com/ruins-of-a-3000-year-old-armenian-castle-found-in-lake-van-turkey/
 
Recent and ongoing digs in Kansas have (re-)located Etzanoa - believed to have been the second-largest Native American settlement in North America (after Cahokia).

Aerial surveying with drones has identified more sites within what appears to have been a larger Etzanoa "metro area" than originally suspected.
Drone Survey Reveals Wichita 'Council Circle' Monument on a Ranch in Kansas

Modern-day drone sensors can sometimes detect what's invisible to the human eye, such as the remains of a historical city called Etzanoa or the 'Great Settlement' in the fields of Wichita, Kansas – remains that have been buried for hundreds of years.

Researchers think they've found what's known as a 'council circle' monument in Etzanoa, and while no one is quite sure exactly what these circles were used for, they would have been significant sites for the community of the time.

The circular ditch measures some 50 metres (164 feet) in diameter and is a couple of metres (6.6 feet) deep. It matches other uncovered earthworks in the area of a similar shape, and has been picked out of a survey site of about 18 hectares (44.5 acres).

"Our findings demonstrate that undiscovered monumental earthworks may still exist in the Great Plains," says anthropologist Jesse J. Casana, from Dartmouth College. "You just need a different archaeological approach to recognise them."

"Our results are promising in suggesting that there may be many other impressive archaeological features that have not yet been documented, if we look hard enough." ...

FULL STORY (With Photos):
https://www.sciencealert.com/drone-...a-council-circle-monument-on-a-farm-in-kansas

PUBLISHED REPORT (Citation Data & Abstract):
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...stern-kansas/5CD6BB9EDD1CF1C7925E4F9759D389D5
 
In toto it rewrites the Amerindian history of Kansas.

Specially equipped drones flying over a Kansas cattle ranch have detected the buried remnants of a horseshoe-shaped ditch made more than 400 years ago by ancestors of today’s Wichita and Affiliated Tribes, scientists say.

The find adds to suspicions that the Kansas site was part of a sprawling population center that Spanish explorers dubbed the Great Settlement in 1601, archaeologist Jesse Casana of Dartmouth College and his colleagues report August 24 in American Antiquity.

Called Etzanoa by a captive the Spanish took from the Great Settlement, it could turn out to be one of the largest Native American settlements ever established north of Mexico, if confirmed by further research. The largest currently known is Cahokia, a site in what’s now Illinois where as many as 20,000 people lived between 1050 and 1150.

Ancestral Wichita communities in Kansas and northern Oklahoma that date to between around 1425 and 1650 existed in a time frame during which South America’s Inca civilization rose and fell (SN: 8/3/20). In the 1800s, European settlers drove ancestral Wichita people from their native lands, leading to the destruction of their villages and communal traditions. ...

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/drones-native-american-settlement-etzanoa-kansas-pasture
 
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I have to admit being fascinated by tales of lost cities. Probably because the first novel I read was 'The Cruise of the Condor' by W.E. Johns. I was about 8. It talks about a lost city of the Incas.
 
That was great @gerhard1 I can well believe they come across as made by humans, and the name is very evocative. I wonder if there are interesting wind noises? camping at night and the wind gets up and the stones start to sing to you...
 
Jaason Colavito casts a caustic eye over the Quest for Akakor.



This week, Discovery launched a new series called Curse of Akakor, in which a team traveled to South America in search of a supposed underground lost city and the explorers who died in the 1980s in quest of it. I was surprised to learn that this “new” show was in fact originally produced in 2019 for Facebook Watch and is now being recycled for Discovery. I have not seen the original 2019 broadcast to know what, if any, changes were made, but the titles, cast list, and episode storylines are the same. The “lost city” of Akakor is quite patently a fake, and it’s rather annoying that the show plans an entire series to get to a point that can be made in a couple of paragraphs.


Akakor was the subject of a book by a German journalist, Karl Brugger, in 1976 called The Chronicle of Akakor—with a preface by Erich von Däniken—in which he claimed that a chieftain from an Amazonian tribe had shared with him (in German, no less) the story of a fantastic city deep in the jungle, one dating back to around 10,500 BCE. Brugger bought the story hook, line, and sinker, and the “secret” of the city gained added weight when Brugger was gunned down in Rio de Janeiro in the 1980s, with the crime unsolved. Some speculated he knew too much. ...

https://jasoncolavito.substack.com/...e-lost-city?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta
 
On the trail of Europe's last lost city:

Portuguese politician and blogger Bruno Maçães was quoted elsewhere on the forum regarding the Covid Wuhan lab leak theory. Out of interest, I checked out some of his archived material and was pleased to see one article that fits perfectly in this thread.

In 2015, Maçães spent some time in Astrakhan (Russia) with an archaeological team in search of the mythical capital of the Khazar people - Itil.

Excavations have been made at a slow pace and small scale, with very little to see (the site is described as resembling the surface of Mars), but this was a once great and prosperous metropolis.

I can't recall having heard of the lost city of Itil before, but wish the archaeologists the best of luck in their endeavours to piece together the mystery from the shattered remains some 3 metres beneath the cold ground of Astrakhan.

https://www.politico.eu/article/on-the-trail-of-europes-last-lost-city-russia-astrakhan/
 
On the trail of Europe's last lost city:

Portuguese politician and blogger Bruno Maçães was quoted elsewhere on the forum regarding the Covid Wuhan lab leak theory. Out of interest, I checked out some of his archived material and was pleased to see one article that fits perfectly in this thread.

In 2015, Maçães spent some time in Astrakhan (Russia) with an archaeological team in search of the mythical capital of the Khazar people - Itil.
More here.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-09-03/russian-archaeologists-find-long-lost-jewish/498540
 
The Lost City that never was.

The Mystical City of Adocentyn​

How a medieval editing choice created an occult legend about a city that never was.​

Jason Colavito
35 min ago

Note: Over the summer, I will be highlighting on Substack some of my overlooked and less-read cultural and historical essays and blog posts that deserve a second chance. The essay below first ran on my blog in 2016 in a slightly different form.

As part of the research that eventually became my 2021 book Legends of the Pyramids, I investigated the story of the 85 statues that Hermes Trismegistus allegedly built at the Mountains of the Moon in order to regulate the flow of the Nile. In reading a book about the history of Hermes Trismegistus, I found that the author made reference to this story, but seemed to know it only from its appearance in the Picatrix, a Latin translation of an eleventh century Arabic text called Ghāyat al-Ḥakīm. The book has an odd history, having been written sometime in the 1000s before being translated into a now-lost Spanish text by order of Alfonso X around 1256-1258, and then from Spanish to Latin sometime thereafter. As a result of its retranslation, the book acquired some odd readings, but what is more interesting is that, like its near-contemporary, the Akhbar al-zaman, it is not an original work so much as a composite of older material. ...

https://jasoncolavito.substack.com/p/the-mystical-city-of-adocentyn

 
On the trail of Europe's last lost city:

Portuguese politician and blogger Bruno Maçães was quoted elsewhere on the forum regarding the Covid Wuhan lab leak theory. Out of interest, I checked out some of his archived material and was pleased to see one article that fits perfectly in this thread.

In 2015, Maçães spent some time in Astrakhan (Russia) with an archaeological team in search of the mythical capital of the Khazar people - Itil.

Excavations have been made at a slow pace and small scale, with very little to see (the site is described as resembling the surface of Mars), but this was a once great and prosperous metropolis.

I can't recall having heard of the lost city of Itil before, but wish the archaeologists the best of luck in their endeavours to piece together the mystery from the shattered remains some 3 metres beneath the cold ground of Astrakhan.

https://www.politico.eu/article/on-the-trail-of-europes-last-lost-city-russia-astrakhan/
It seems like I have heard the name, but I recall nothing else about it.
 
This youtube video brought to mind a conversation between EnolaGaia and yours truly, about an account of one George Kershon concerning a lost city in the remote Alaska interior.

Could Kershon have stumbled across something after all? Now, I wonder.

Those sculptures are bizarre and unsettling.
 
Could Kershon have stumbled across something after all? Now, I wonder. ...
Comments in the video seem to be slanted toward disputing the peopling of the Americas via Beringia (the Bering land bridge) following the last major glaciation. I'm not sure what that's about ...

In any case, there's no necessary linkage between Beringia and the Ipiutak Site (now on the US National Register of Historical Places). The Beringia land bridge is estimated to have disappeared with rising sea levels circa 11,000 - 8,000 years BP. In any case, the Bering Strait has been crossed multiple times in recent decades without watercraft - e.g., by foot, skis, skimobiles, and even by a motor vehicle when the area was sufficiently iced-over. The disappearance of a continuous land bridge doesn't mean the strait couldn't have been crossed at all.

Anyway ... The archaeologists / anthropologists of the 1930s seem to have gotten carried away with their initial impressions of the site's age and its size / occupancy during its history. Subsequent excavations and radiocarbon dating analyses paint a less grandiose picture of the place:
It is the type site for the Ipiutak culture, which arose possibly as early as 100–200 BCE and collapsed around 800 CE. The Ipiutak culture occurred from south of the Bering Strait, across the Brooks Range and possibly as far north as Point Barrow.

The Ipiutak site was discovered in 1939 by archaeologists Helge Larsen and Froelich Rainey, who completed a monograph on the site in 1948. The site consists of nearly 600 abandoned house depressions along four beach ridges that impart a linearity that was originally interpreted as purposeful design as roads or "avenues." Many of the houses are too close to be contemporaneous and the range of several radiocarbon ages suggests a duration of 300–400 years to build all of the houses. Archaeologists have modeled the population history of the site to infer that only about 125–200 people lived at the site during any one generation and occupied 20 to 30 houses. The original population estimates of over 4000 are in error.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipiutak_Site

This abstract also summarizes the geographical and historical situation:
Between A.D. 200 and 900, the Ipiutak regional system developed an intercontinental trade in obsidian and iron, associated with a shamanic crisis cult in Northwest Alaska. People gathered seasonally within community structures (qargi) for cultic performances, maintained an extensive trade network, and warred with their neighbors. Ipiutak was supported by the hunting of walrus, seal, and caribou; the possible contribution of whaling remains uncertain. Most settlements were small, including 3 to 6 houses, although the principal village at Point Hope had over 30 contemporaneous houses, producing a total of >600 houses and over 100 interments. Lacking pottery and oil lamps, Ipiutak people were specialized ivory workers, producing an elaborate and profound art, often employed as grave offerings. Ipiutak was affiliated and on occasion opposed to the Old Bering Sea culture of Bering Strait but its origins remain disputed between Central Asian and Alaska sources.
SOURCE:
From the Norton Culture to the Ipiutak Cult in Northwest Alaska
Owen Mason
The Oxford Handbook of the Prehistoric Arctic
Edited by Max Friesen and Owen Mason

Print Publication Date: Oct 2016 Subject: Archaeology, Prehistoric Archaeology, Archaeology of North America
Online Publication Date: Aug 2016
DOI: 10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199766956.013.52

https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/vie...99766956.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199766956-e-52
 
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