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Lost In The UK

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I've spent the last two days searching my books for a reference to a lost city in Fife, S.E. Scotland. I was sure it was in 'Linlithgow' by George Waldie but I've gone through the entire book with no luck. I do remember that the reference was to a work by a medevial monk and that the city was supposed to be on the coast.

On the subject of 'lost' UK cities anybody got any info on Dunwich(?), the medevial city that was inundated by the sea? Particularly any pics that show what's visible on the seabed now. Would also appreciate any other info on suspected 'lost' sites in the UK.
 
It's interesting to think that we're so close to something like that ;)

Sadly, I don't know about anything like that (either around here or in the rest of the UK!)
 
Wasnt dunwich actually dullwitch (sp?) the so called underground city in london which was an experimental tube station that never made service but was used as a command depot during WW2 instead? if so i might have a link lying round somewhere, if so ill dig it out later.
 
According to Nigel Pennick in Lost Lands and Sunken Cities the town of Old Findhorn in Morayshire was completely washed away and much of Arbroath disappeared in the 18th century.

You might be misremembering the story of the Priory of Crail at St Andrews in Fife which was undermined and inundated by the sea.

Pennicks book contains a lot of information on Dunwich - probably worth looking out for if you are interested in this subject.
 
Lots about Dunwich, Suffolk, from Google

It used to be a major town in East Anglia, but much of it has now slipped into the sea, leaving just a small village.



In this corner of the country, we had the lost land of Lyonesse. Probably more than a mere legend - there is ample evidence of sea-level rise in the Scilly Isles, and submerged forests in Mounts Bay.

Edit: I was Googling for stuff in Scotland when I remembered I have a copy of Pennick's book - but returning here I find Spook beat me to it in posting about it!
 
Now I remember why this thread rings a bell. I remember reading about a freak low tide that revealed a village somewhere in Scotland.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/atscot.htm

-----------------------------------------------
Freak Low Tide Uncovers 500-Year-Old Town Off Scottish Coast
[Original headline: Atlantis of the north discovered ]
A freak low tide has uncovered a coastal community - dubbed Scotland’s own Atlantis - exactly three centuries after it disappeared beneath the waves in a devastating flood.

For more than 500 years, the old town of Findhorn in Moray had been a thriving fishing and commercial port, at the centre of flourishing trade with Europe, the Baltic states, the New World and even the Orient.

Created a Burgh of Barony in 1532, it was the principal harbour on the Moray Firth coast and was used to ship the mighty oaks from the forests of the Earl of Moray’s estates, used in the construction of the Scottish parliament, and Edinburgh and Stirling castles.

But in the 17th century, the shifting sands which had already completely buried the neighbouring estate of Culbin began to silt up the once-bustling harbour, forcing the town’s citizens gradually to establish a new community, one and a half miles away to where the present village of Findhorn now stands.

In 1701, the demise of the Old Town was sealed when the mercat cross was moved to the new village on the Muirton Estate. And, a year later, Old Findhorn vanished when the waters of the River Findhorn finally broke through the barrier of sand protecting the once-vibrant community.

The river formed a new channel through the centre of the Old Town and, gradually, the sea and sand reclaimed what was left.

But, by a quirk of nature, the lost town has been rediscovered.

Tim Negus, a retired RAF surgeon and a member of the local heritage society, stumbled on what remained of the ancient port when he took advantage of an exceptionally low spring tide to look for clues to the lost town.

He said: "I knew roughly where the old town was from maps we have at the heritage centre and the first thing I saw was a pile of stones that looked like the ruins of a building.

"These stones were fairly unfashioned. But then I discovered two well masoned slabs, including a piece of carved masonry that must have come from a fairly substantial and sophisticated building."

He e-mailed Bill Anderson, the society’s chairman, saying: "Atlantis has been found."

Mr Anderson said yesterday: "It was an absolutely fantastic discovery which will allow us to fill in this massive black hole about the history of Old Findhorn.

"Accounts tell us that Findhorn was an important trading port for many years before it disappeared into the sea in 1702, a busy harbour with bonded warehouses. But there have also been conflicting claims that Findhorn was nothing but a huddle of rude rural buildings, with the boats beached on the shore and no harbour.

"All the evidence we have found now points to a thriving cosmopolitan port of some importance."

Mr Anderson stressed, however, that there was no prospect of detailed excavations being carried out at the site in the search for further clues to Findhorn’s past because of the shifting tides and dangerous currents in the area.

--------------------------------------------------

Sorry if someone has already posted this.

:)
 
Wasn't the Brigadoon story similar to this? I am not au-fait with the details of that but I seem to remember a town that appeared once every hundred years or something similar- I'm sure all of you lot know a bunch more than that as well.

I've probably mentioned the Lost Hundreds off the west coast of wales before, but that is another legendary kingdom that sank (with tree-stumps still visible at low tide from some parts of the coast)

I believe there was a Cornish town somewhere near Perranporth that was described as a kind of local Sodom and was righteously swallowed up by the sand dunes, although I may have dreamed that one altogether...
 
My home town is kinda similar. Although it is perhaps the reverse of the previous posts.

400 years ago, the sea and river mouth came up to my high street....which is nearly 1 mile away from the present day sea. The mouth silted up and buried area of the town and blocked up parts of the river. It burst its banks and chose a different route to the sea but left big trenches that exposed whales and mesolithis materials.

The coastline moved rapidly towards the west for a mile and left the harbour and moorings a mile away from the coast.

The thing is.......before that, it was yet another mile from the present coast. Thats two miles! The result of which has meant that we have to look at this area of land which is two miles from the present coastline and treat it as the first settlement coast of this part of Scotland.

In Ayrshire we have found a settlement coastline that is sunken in the soil rather than a coastline which is beneath the sea.
 
flood and erosion

Well there are two different things going on, the ice melt since the ice age has flooded a lot of land near the west coast of the UK, while the land is still mostly rising on the east side (due to isostatic recovery) causing cliffs to rise up, and crumble due to wave action
especially the soft tertiary and quatenary deposits along the Holderness coast
therefore
bye bye Dunwich and Lyonesse

steve b
 
carole said:
The coast of Yorkshire, south of Bridlington down to Spurn Point has what must be the worst erosion in the UK.

That's true enough - I come from Hornsea, right in the middle of the Holderness coast, and when I was at primary school, I remember being shown a film that suggested that, though towns such as Hornsea and Withernsea, with their sea defences, would be all right, eventually the sea would erode the surrounding coastline and turn the towns into islands.

At the age of seven, the thought of living on an island was pretty appealing, so I was upset to find it wouldn't happen for hundreds of years. That notwithstanding, they still lose a few feet every year; just to the North of Hornsea the old coast road used to have a field between it and the sea, now its practically on the edge. A couple of caravans go over each Winter, it seems. There were also the Villages of Hornsea Burton and Hornsea Beck to the East, both of which were washed away by the sea. An old legend was that on stormy nights the bells of Hornsea Beck church could be heard ringing - I think there's a similar story from Dunwich.

As an O/T aside, the Bords' Secret Country has a tiny reference to there being a Glastonbury-style zodiac centred on Hornsea. My Dad remembers seeing something about this on TV many years ago, which stated that about half of it had been eroded. Personally I'm not sure about the truth in landscape zodiacs, but I'd love to find out more about this one - I've only found one tiny reference on the net, and that was only a blurb for a Northern Earth Mysteries publication, with no info...

The best known lost town of the Holderness coast is Ravenspurne, which was one of the planned towns and ports, like Hedon and Hull, founded in medieval times. Henry IV landed there in 1399 to claim the throne from Richard II, but all that remains now is a rather handsome cross, reputedly from the town, which was rebuilt at Hedon after bening found washed up on the beach. Its now in the grounds of an old peoples' home!
 
Dun Run

I don't have any piccies of Dunwhich, but the London School of Cycling and Greenwich Cyclists organise an annual overnight bike ride from Hackney to Dunwich. I did it this year, and it was a real hoot. 125 miles, although it gets slightly shorter every year. My account of the ride is here, and you can find out about next year's here.
 
Only vaguely on topic... has anyone else heard of a village of dwarves somewhere in the UK? A miniature village with houses, pubs, shops and even a school all built to dwarf scale and populated by "little people"?
 
Yes, I've heard of it, but IIRC it was built for a film or similar and then left afterwards without being dismantled. I'll see if I can dig anything out.

Stu
 
Johnnyboy said:
The best known lost town of the Holderness coast is Ravenspurne, which was one of the planned towns and ports, like Hedon and Hull, founded in medieval times. Henry IV landed there in 1399 to claim the throne from Richard II, but all that remains now is a rather handsome cross, reputedly from the town, which was rebuilt at Hedon after bening found washed up on the beach. Its now in the grounds of an old peoples' home!

I'm sure I read about an island that once existed off Spurn point. It was destroyed in medeival times by a great storm? I seem to recall it was a pretty important port at the time, being busier than Hull. Is this the same place? I thought it was called Ravensor, or something like that?

These lost villages fascinate me. I wonder if some were 'drowned' overnight :eek!!!!:
I visited an old church once on the coast there that had parts of other churches grafted onto it, bits rescued from the ones nearby that had been destroyed by the sea. I think they had to re-bury corpses from the old churchyards too!
 
David Raven said:
I'm sure I read about an island that once existed off Spurn point. It was destroyed in medeival times by a great storm? I seem to recall it was a pretty important port at the time, being busier than Hull. Is this the same place? I thought it was called Ravensor, or something like that?

I spend some of my time in Hull and I saw a local history book in the library there which showed "Ravensar" half way along Spurn Head. i think the town is also called "Ravensar Odd" or just "Odd". I think it would be a great setting for a film ... medieaval romance - race against time as the city crumbles into the sea - think "Titanic" but bigger...

Also I am told there was a "Penisthorpe" which stood on the shore of the humber - no erections are left standing though;)
 
At the time of William the Conquerer, Barton-on-Humber was the main port on the river. Nevertheless it declined from then on relative to Beverley and Hedon on the north bank as the wool and cloth trade expanded. Hedon and Grimsby declined, in favour of an island off Spurn called Ravenserodd, and by 1400 Hull was the third port in the country.

From this site .

THIS SITE shows an old map with the lost towns of the Yorkshire coast marked, including Ravenspurne.

I think there were 3 towns (?); Ravenser, the nearby island of Ravenser-Odd and Ravenspurne. I can't find the website where I read this, I'll keep looking...


Just found this;-

Readers of THE STRAND MAGAZINE will look in vain on the largest scale modern map for the lost city of Ravensburgh. It was at this flourishing seaport that Henry IV landed in 1399.

'The banished Bolingbroke repeals himself,
And with uplifted arms is safe arrived at Ravensburgh.

-Shakespeare's Richard II.

This lost town had two members to Parliament and was a bigger and more important place than Hull. Edward IV landed here from Flanders in 1471 before the Battle of Barnet.
With Ravensburgh disappeared also many villages and a large tract of' territory, amongst which were Odd (or Odd Ravenser), Redmare, Tharlethorp, Frismarsh, and Potterfleet, all situated in the Holderness district. On the coast Hornsea Beck, Hornsea Burton, Hartburn, Old Aldeburgh, Hyde, and Withernsea have disappeared. Camden also mentions the parishes of Pennysmerk, Upsal, Salthegh, Dymelton and Wythefleet.

from http://www.mybucket.co.uk/dw/england.htm
 
... THIS SITE shows an old map with the lost towns of the Yorkshire coast marked, including Ravenspurne. ...

Link is long dead. Here is what I believe to be the same map image from another site:

lost.gif
SOURCE: http://greenfieldgeography.wikispaces.com/IGCSE+Coasts+and+GCSE+Coasts
 
Lyonesse, too. (Note: Lyonesse may have originally referred to Lothian in Scotland, which then got mixed up with the story of Ys in Brittany, and was relocated to the coast of Cornwall)

St. Michael's Mount in Cornwall's Cornish name means 'The Grey Rock In The Woods' - notable because it's surrounded by sea, not forest. But according to legend, and increasingly, archaeological evidence, it was once on dry land before an inundation turned it into an island. The flood would have been nearly 4000 years ago, making the name an example of truly ancient folk-memory.

http://stivestv.co.uk/all-st-ives-tv-videos/st-michaels-mount-ancient-forest/
 
There are plenty of lost towns and settlements around any eroding coastline, or where the level of the land may change through seismic activity. It is also well established that there is a whole land mass under the North Sea. It is now referred to as Doggerland — stop laughing at the back. What is now the English Channel was at one time low lying land and marshland which was catastrophically flooded after the last ice age. Almost certainly, there were settlements of some kind there.

As a starting point, Wikipedia lists 78 pages under the heading "Sunken Cities", although some may be legendary or fictional.

On the Orkney islands, there is Skara Brae which was a small but architecturally very sophisticated neolithic settlement, apparently buried under sand some time after it was abandoned, and later revealed when the sand was removed by a storm.

On a recent holiday in Turkey, we kayaked over a sunken city near the island of Kekova. Huge amounts of detail are visible.

Flag Fen, Cambridgeshire is slightly different. It was built on wooden piles in marshland and apparently destroyed by fire, the remains then sinking into the river and marshland.

Seahenge was discovered just off the Norfolk coast: apparently a ritual centre, implying that there were settlements nearby. I haven't been to this site but have visited the others in this list.

Again, slightly differently, Lower Hambleton and Nether Hambleton were both deliberately inundated when the reservoir of Rutland Water was constructed. I have vague memories of hearing the "you can hear the church bells on a windy night" legend about this. It's a fairly obvious idea to incorporate into any tale of a lost village. (People from Rutland being awfully civilised, there are no tales of canoeists on the lake being forced to squeal like a pig to the background music of banjos.)

A related phenomenon of course is the coastal town that "migrates inland" as sea levels fall, land rises, or rivers silt up. There are several former ports in England, and no doubt elsewhere, that are no longer accessible to ships.
 
It is also well established that there is a whole land mass under the North Sea. It is now referred to as Doggerland

As a kid of about 9 I read about that in a book and wrote about it at school, even drew an outline of it! As the teacher had never heard of it I was punished for lying.
 
As a kid of about 9 I read about that in a book and wrote about it at school, even drew an outline of it! As the teacher had never heard of it I was punished for lying.

Those things stick in your mind.

As a kid, I was told by a geography teacher, no less, that (a) there were no dairy cattle in East Anglia and (b) you could not grow sweetcorn in England. I told him that I used to live on a dairy farm in Norfolk, and that my mother had grown sweetcorn in the garden there (both these facts being true). His reply, "Well, it must have been Norfolk, West Virginia.

On another occasion, I wrote a poem referring to a "bark" (a light canoe made of bark) lost in a storm. A language teacher "corrected" this to "barque" (English spelling for a type of ship with 3 or more masts, square rigged apart from the mizzen which is fore and aft rigged.) A considerable change of emphasis!

However, I have got over these things and am not bitter.

OK, I'm bitter.
 
Those things stick in your mind.

As a kid, I was told by a geography teacher, no less, that (a) there were no dairy cattle in East Anglia and (b) you could not grow sweetcorn in England. I told him that I used to live on a dairy farm in Norfolk, and that my mother had grown sweetcorn in the garden there (both these facts being true). His reply, "Well, it must have been Norfolk, West Virginia.

On another occasion, I wrote a poem referring to a "bark" (a light canoe made of bark) lost in a storm. A language teacher "corrected" this to "barque" (English spelling for a type of ship with 3 or more masts, square rigged apart from the mizzen which is fore and aft rigged.) A considerable change of emphasis!

However, I have got over these things and am not bitter.

OK, I'm bitter.

There's a yarn that goes round the 'net about a kid whose parents get a letter home about him/her complaining that the kid kept 'disrespectfully' correcting a teacher on something.

The kid is right and the teacher is wrong but apparently pointing this out is insolent.

Probably apocryphal but you can sort of believe it.

Oh yeah, and I was publicly called a liar for telling the class about a breed of giant bats called 'flying foxes'. Because foxes can't fly.
 
I had a few run-ins with teachers who tried to 'correct' me. Afterwards, I'd point out what I meant in a dictionary or some other book. One or two didn't like that.
I even had an art teacher who had never heard of Praxiteles.
 
... His reply, "Well, it must have been Norfolk, West Virginia. ...

:rollingw:

That's really funny ... The buffoonery of clinging to dogma, plus the added self-insult to his own alleged expertise by attributing the city to the wrong state ...

:roll:
 
:rollingw:

That's really funny ... The buffoonery of clinging to dogma, plus the added self-insult to his own alleged expertise by attributing the city to the wrong state ...

:roll:
Confession, I may have added the "West" from faulty memory. I'll take the rap for that bit. From over here, all America is west... He definitely mentioned Virginia.
 
On the Orkney islands, there is Skara Brae which was a small but architecturally very sophisticated neolithic settlement, apparently buried under sand some time after it was abandoned, and later revealed when the sand was removed by a storm.

Hi @Mikefule, 'drowned' settlements have also been discovered in Orkney and I understand that archaeologists working there believe they may be extensive.

For example:
Drowned Stone Age settlement of the Bay of Firth, Orkney, Scotland (2009)

There is another, less well known, side to Orkney archaeology, however, and that comprises the submerged landscape around the islands. Work on Holocene sea-level change in Orkney indicates that relative sea-levels only reached their present position some 4000 years ago. This is substantially after the arrival of the first Mesolithic population of Orkney c.10,000 years ago, and nearly two millennia after the development of farming in the islands c.6000 years ago. The considerable changes that have taken place in relative sea-level mean that our understanding of the archaeology of the islands can only be partial while it is based solely on the investigation of sites on land. The quality of the upstanding stone buildings at the many Neolithic villages and other sites across Orkney (eg: Skara Brae, Knap of Howar, Links of Noltland) suggests that submerged sites, if they exist, might be substantial.

Neolithic Stone Circle Discovered Beneath the Sea? (2011)
 
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