LOTR: The Rings Of Power Series

ramonmercado

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Rings of Power: The new hobbits are filthy, hungry simpletons with stage-Irish accents. That’s $1bn well spent


https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...ith-stage-irish-accents-thats-1bn-well-spent/

maximus otter

Indeed:

It features a race of simpleton proto-hobbits, rosy of cheek, slathered in muck, wearing twigs in their hair and speaking in stage-Irish accents that make the cast of Wild Mountain Thyme sound like Daniel Day-Lewis. Twenty minutes in, I’m having flashbacks to that 1997 EastEnders episode with the fightin’ villagers and donkeys walking the streets.

If they don’t quite keep livestock in the livingroom, they are otherwise a laundry list of 19th-century Hibernophobic caricatures.

The accents embark on a wild journey from Donegal to Kerry and then stop off in inner-city Dublin. The Harfoots themselves are twee and guileless and say things like: “Put yer backs into it, lads.” One is portrayed by Lenny Henry, a great comedian and actor who deserves better than having to deliver lines such as “De both of ye, dis does not bode will” (in an appalling Irish accent). Scouring the internet, there is no evidence of any Irish actors having been involved.
 

maximus otter

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jack_posobiec_lord_of_the_rings_rings_of_power_09-05-2022.jpg


maximus otter
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Rings of Power: The new hobbits are filthy, hungry simpletons with stage-Irish accents. That’s $1bn well spent


https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...ith-stage-irish-accents-thats-1bn-well-spent/

maximus otter

I can understand why the Irish are irritated at Hobbits being given Irish accents to depict them as rustic, grubby figures of fun, but what about the Scots? Dwarves are invariably stubborn, greedy and jealously guard their wealth, so the racial stereotype for them just had to be Scottish right? (I'm waiting for one of them to declare "we're doomed. Doomed I tell ye!").
Oh and Elves tend to be rather aloof and insouciant towards the lesser denizens of the world, so an aristocratic English accent was pretty well inevitable.
Looks like a new age of racial stereotyping has begun!
 

Ogdred Weary

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Indeed:

It features a race of simpleton proto-hobbits, rosy of cheek, slathered in muck, wearing twigs in their hair and speaking in stage-Irish accents that make the cast of Wild Mountain Thyme sound like Daniel Day-Lewis. Twenty minutes in, I’m having flashbacks to that 1997 EastEnders episode with the fightin’ villagers and donkeys walking the streets.

If they don’t quite keep livestock in the livingroom, they are otherwise a laundry list of 19th-century Hibernophobic caricatures.

The accents embark on a wild journey from Donegal to Kerry and then stop off in inner-city Dublin. The Harfoots themselves are twee and guileless and say things like: “Put yer backs into it, lads.” One is portrayed by Lenny Henry, a great comedian and actor who deserves better than having to deliver lines such as “De both of ye, dis does not bode will” (in an appalling Irish accent). Scouring the internet, there is no evidence of any Irish actors having been involved.

Dere's more to Oirland den dis!


I'd heard some Hobbit-y speaking in one of the trailers and thought they were supposed to be Westcountry...

At least they are doing a good job of staying true to Tolkien's original racism.
 

Frideswide

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what about the Scots? Dwarves are invariably stubborn, greedy and jealously guard their wealth, so the racial stereotype for them just had to be Scottish right? (I'm waiting for one of them to declare "we're doomed. Doomed I tell ye!").

[frazer] "We're doomed. Doomed I tell ye!" [/frazer]

:twothumbs:
 

Stormkhan

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You'd have thought the stereotype dwarf would have a Welsh accent; miners 'n' all, y'see.
It's like stereotypical pirates having a West Country accent 'cause, well, all sailors came from the West Country, eh?

Point is, if Amazon wanted to rehabilitate Tolkien by inclusivity and diversity being shoehorned into their production, they would've done better to pay good writers (not damn 'showrunners') to come up with something like Middle Earth but actually original. But, no - they wanted that sweet, sweet existing fanbase to exploit. A fanbase that they managed to alienate by turning valid criticism into wrong criticism.
 

Ogdred Weary

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You'd have thought the stereotype dwarf would have a Welsh accent; miners 'n' all, y'see.
It's like stereotypical pirates having a West Country accent 'cause, well, all sailors came from the West Country, eh?

Point is, if Amazon wanted to rehabilitate Tolkien by inclusivity and diversity being shoehorned into their production, they would've done better to pay good writers (not damn 'showrunners') to come up with something like Middle Earth but actually original. But, no - they wanted that sweet, sweet existing fanbase to exploit. A fanbase that they managed to alienate by turning valid criticism into wrong criticism.

It's less about fanbase and more about brand recognition: everyone has heard of The Lord of the Rings, it's far more about luring in casual viewers than exploiting the more dedicated fans.
 

Lb8535

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The thing about the accents is a techical problem. T heard the hobbits as some variety of deep rural accent. In a film you do this by hiring several dialect coaches, deciding on which English rural dialect to use, and drilling the actors consistently until they get it. Re-taking and dubbing when they don't. Jackson did this. It's expensive and takes care and time, but very effective in creating a world. Amazon didn't have the skill or the patience and did the easy thing because everyone can do a fake Irish accent. Not that I've watched it, but I'm guessing this is the cheap as possible middle earth.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Even The Guardian, whose reviews of TROP have been gushingly OTT positive, commented that the Orcs are basically "cockney savages".

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...de-three-less-slow-motion-horse-riding-please

So, racial stereotypes are acceptable PROVIDED they are Irish, Scottish, upper-class English or gor-blimey, stone the crows and leave it aht, the missus'll never believe this 'un ..... Cockneys!
 
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Lb8535

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As I remember the orcs in the book are an evil force with almost no dialog, but what little they do say sounds very working-class English, lower army rank whiners. Jackson however expanded a few dialog scenes and made them east London.
 

Yithian

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As I remember the orcs in the book are an evil force with almost no dialog, but what little they do say sounds very working-class English, lower army rank whiners. Jackson however expanded a few dialog scenes and made them east London.

Off the top of my head, the rival factions of orcs encountered at Cirith Ungol are fully fleshed-out with extended dialogue and London accents, Gorbag and Shagrat's fight over Frodo's mithril shirt being emblematic of how myopic cupidity undermines class unity and prevents the emancipation of the working people from the tyranny of capitalism.

Or something.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Off the top of my head, the rival factions of orcs encountered at Cirith Ungol are fully fleshed-out with extended dialogue and London accents, Gorbag and Shagrat's fight over Frodo's mithril shirt being emblematic of how myopic cupidity undermines class unity and prevents the emancipation of the working people from the tyranny of capitalism.

Or something.

A shame that the movies didn't include the dialogue between Gorbag and Shagrat, where they are reminiscing about the good old days and making plans for when the war is over:

"What d’you say? – if we get a chance, you and me’ll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there’s good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.’
‘Ah!’ said Shagrat. ‘Like old times."


Tolkien, who lost all but one of his friends in WW1, clearly wanted to show that even the hated inhuman enemy were sapient beings too with hopes, aspirations, a sense of nostalgia and a desire not to be bullied by cruel leaders.
 

Ghost In The Machine

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The Peter Jackson version of LOTR is still an astonishing piece of work.
Every object was crafted in detail which essentially makes the props future proof should we all end up with 16k wallscreens.
The Hobbit was a tedious bum-numbing endurance test. I didn’t really warm to Freeman in the role.
If this goes along the route of most recent Hollywood productions - and it will - I’ll be giving it a huge miss.

I think the critical and fan fallout will be most interesting though.
I thought Freeman was perfect but the scripts... the whole thing was one very long film, not three (Studio's fault not PJ's I'd guess?)

Seen the first one of this so far and I will be watching but - hard to put into words what's wrong with it. But I'll try. It's constantly lifting lines from the PJ movies - or paraphrasing them. It's not brave enough to be its own thing. Casting of the key character so far, is curious. Galadriel is not likeable. The hobbits (so far) are bland. And a bit too cute. One thing I do love is the general casting, though - fantasy things have been too white for too long. Tolkien was remaking our lost mythology for all of us. Every one of us should find characters we can identify with and enjoy. So the casting is, at last, on the money for me (apart from the icy and unsympathetic Galadriel).

ETA: Am hoping the hobbits grow on me. Might even get upto three foot 6. Pretty sure the Oirish is a nod to US romanticism re anything celtic as they think the English are less lovable, naughty redcoats etc etc - but the thing PJ captures so well is that the Shire is so very... English. Think the costume dept on PJ's movies also captured the different cultures much better than am seeing so far with this. They've made the elves more clinical and Roman, less "organic" and ethereal in design and I think PJ's take works better.
 
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Ghost In The Machine

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Indeed:

It features a race of simpleton proto-hobbits, rosy of cheek, slathered in muck, wearing twigs in their hair and speaking in stage-Irish accents that make the cast of Wild Mountain Thyme sound like Daniel Day-Lewis. Twenty minutes in, I’m having flashbacks to that 1997 EastEnders episode with the fightin’ villagers and donkeys walking the streets.

If they don’t quite keep livestock in the livingroom, they are otherwise a laundry list of 19th-century Hibernophobic caricatures.

The accents embark on a wild journey from Donegal to Kerry and then stop off in inner-city Dublin. The Harfoots themselves are twee and guileless and say things like: “Put yer backs into it, lads.” One is portrayed by Lenny Henry, a great comedian and actor who deserves better than having to deliver lines such as “De both of ye, dis does not bode will” (in an appalling Irish accent). Scouring the internet, there is no evidence of any Irish actors having been involved.
Christ on a bike, how did I ever miss that episode of EE?
 

Ghost In The Machine

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As I remember the orcs in the book are an evil force with almost no dialog, but what little they do say sounds very working-class English, lower army rank whiners. Jackson however expanded a few dialog scenes and made them east London.
With an NZ twang.

Which was quite funny.

The guy who played one of the orcs (the particularly mis-shapen commander one in the final film, IIRC) is now one of the "Behavior Panel" on YouTube. (He's a Brit, not from NZ).

My favourite bit is when this orc says "Come on, you sea rats!" but in a very NZ accent as it comes out: "Come on, you sea rets!" Voiced by Craig Parker, who was the fancy elf in the film but seems to have done some voices as well.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Guritz
 
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PeteByrdie

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I thought Freeman was perfect but the scripts... the whole thing was one very long film, not three (Studio's fault not PJ's I'd guess?)
It was the studio pressuring Jackson to get three movies out there to milk the franchise, if I recall. However, I see no need for them to have been so long, except to emulate the original trilogy's scope. Especially when the source material wasn't there to back it up. Considering the process of making The Hobbit trilogy has been described as laying the track down in front of a moving train, couldn't they have made it easier on themselves by sticking more closely to the actual book they were adapting?
Seen the first one of this so far and I will be watching but - hard to put into words what's wrong with it. But I'll try. It's constantly lifting lines from the PJ movies - or paraphrasing them. It's not brave enough to be its own thing. Casting of the key character so far, is curious. Galadriel is not likeable. The hobbits (so far) are bland. And a bit too cute. One thing I do love is the general casting, though - fantasy things have been too white for too long. Tolkien was remaking our lost mythology for all of us. Every one of us should find characters we can identify with and enjoy. So the casting is, at last, on the money for me (apart from the icy and unsympathetic Galadriel).
I don't mind if this is the version of Galadriel with which they're going to complete this story myself, but I'm hoping that her character growth will be part of the story. We've got a battle hardened, driven Galadriel at the moment. It's often the case we dislike characters when we first see them, but it's their growth that can make us love them.
 

Lb8535

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Off the top of my head, the rival factions of orcs encountered at Cirith Ungol are fully fleshed-out with extended dialogue and London accents, Gorbag and Shagrat's fight over Frodo's mithril shirt being emblematic of how myopic cupidity undermines class unity and prevents the emancipation of the working people from the tyranny of capitalism.

Or something.
The mithril episode and the dispute between those 2 is lifted from T.
 

Lb8535

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With an NZ twang.

Which was quite funny.

The guy who played one of the orcs (the particularly mis-shapen commander one in the final film, IIRC) is now one of the "Behavior Panel" on YouTube. (He's a Brit, not from NZ).

My favourite bit is when this orc says "Come on, you sea rats!" but in a very NZ accent as it comes out: "Come on, you sea rets!" Voiced by Craig Parker, who was the fancy elf in the film but seems to have done some voices as well.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Guritz
Yes Parker is also a voice actor. And indeed the twang is heard frequently among the background group, all of whom were dubbed after the fact since no one could talk through the various makeups and were frequently stunties in any case.
 

Kondoru

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Galadriel I have always found to be a problematic character.

She is a rebel and a kinslayer, (denied, of course but JRRT is so cagey about the subject you have to wonder...)

And her Mum named her Nerwen....Woman of manly strength and valour.

So she's basically called TOMBOY.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Galadriel I have always found to be a problematic character.

She is a rebel and a kinslayer, (denied, of course but JRRT is so cagey about the subject you have to wonder...)

And her Mum named her Nerwen....Woman of manly strength and valour.

So she's basically called TOMBOY.

They seem to have reinvented her to be a near clone of Lagertha from Vikings.
There's no real sense of wisdom, ethereal power or even any basic Elfness about her.
A shame, as Morfydd Clark is a great actress, but is rather hamstrung by the direction the scriptwriters of TROP are pushing her character.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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At least there were no bloody Harfoots/feet in episode 4, so we should be grateful for small mercies (or Murphys).
The dialogue with Adar, ripped-off from Apocalypse Now, has got the Twitterati twittering.
So Adar is basically Marlon Brando's Kurz character.
 
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