LOTR: The Rings Of Power Series

[Stormkhan]

Since they've alienated most of the 'hardcore' Tolkien fans - those that can recall much of the detail that he included in the books - they were trying to appeal to the others who just like CGI/spectacle TV and really don't know much about the lore.
This would've been fine had they not overreacted to criticism of their many trailers.

 

[Stormkhan]

I think the problem is the build up is very slow.
Folk these days like to start in media res.

I think they had a problem with pacing as a whole. Lots of exposition padded out with scenery-porn and a bit of action until the last couple of episodes when they had to stitch the whole lot together.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

If the ratings justify it.
The 'record breaking' amount of money this one cost might not be considered a good investment by the money-men.

Amazon have money to burn, if it drives attention towards their streaming service then that might be enough.

 

[Stormkhan]

But Amazon relies on investors and investors tend to shy away from money-pits.
If Bezos tells them "Hey, the more we lose money on this project, the more we'll earn on the service", I'm not sure they'd go for it. The old saw of "No such thing as bad publicity" has been disproved long ago. So it's hard to reason that their most expensive property has lost most of the money isn't exactly selling well.

 

[Lb8535]

But Amazon relies on investors and investors tend to shy away from money-pits.
If Bezos tells them "Hey, the more we lose money on this project, the more we'll earn on the service", I'm not sure they'd go for it. The old saw of "No such thing as bad publicity" has been disproved long ago. So it's hard to reason that their most expensive property has lost most of the money isn't exactly selling well.

Firstly, I disagree entirely on bad publicity. No such thing. People check it out to see if it's really that bad. With regard to bad TV, the creator of the show may have trouble getting funders in the future, but Amazon looks only at the overall bottom line. They don't care what they broadcast ( as they don't care what they sell).

 

[stu neville]

It's rubbish

I look forward to your review in next month's FT!

OK- I'll qualify this a bit.

Since they've alienated most of the 'hardcore' Tolkien fans - those that can recall much of the detail that he included in the books - they were trying to appeal to the others who just like CGI/spectacle TV and really don't know much about the lore.

I think this is the crux of it. Amazon is ultimately an aggregation mechanism rather than a creative one, so its organisational instinct is to look at what works in other series and try to emulate it. What they seem to have done with Rings Of Power is take the chassis of Jackson's interpretation, so the overall sub-Zeferelli, oil-painting look then add the intrigue elements of Game Of Thrones with, at times, the threat elements of The Walking Dead. It hasn't matted in smoothly, however, leaving a lumpy, uneven mess. It could (IMHO) be edited down into a much sharper four-parter: the material is there but it needs ruthless remodelling.

 

[Stormkhan]

Firstly, I disagree entirely on bad publicity. No such thing.

Tell that to Gerald Ratner.
This is a business. It creates art, yes, but it's down to investment and investors look at return.
If a "house" makes a product - getting good or bad reviews - and it's returns don't match the investment, then they bail. If someone was to 'sell' a product, spending lots of investors money in the promotion, only to find it kills folks, f'rinstance, then the publicity surrounding the deaths doesn't exactly 'sell' the creative firm and, indirectly, the investment returns are harmed.
Just because the product is 'on everyone's lips', doesn't make the product sellable. And any negative advertising actually impacts on both the product, the producers, the advertising execs and - ultimately - the investors.
News items surrounding owners of the Sinclair C5 being injured using them was not good publicity when trying to sell them. They became a joke. The bad publicity concerning the product irreversibly damaged the product, the firm and the investors return.

 

[Kondoru]

I remember those.

The Media laughed their heads off.

 

[Sabresonic]

Watched it and was bored to tears and there is me giving Gangs of London a 2nd chance lol

 

[Kondoru]

Watched the first half today.

It has a certain charm; Galadriel is a bitch. (Plus its told from her POV so no mention is made of Aqualonde and What She Did There...)

Why is everyone not from Numenor wearing drab clothing? People in the past like snazzy clothes.

Even Harfoots.

Even Orcs.

The Numenorians have heard about Junks rigs but not how to make one.

Also junk rigs are designed for as few a ropes as possible.

 

[Stormkhan]

I think the thing that sticks in the craw isn't that Galadriel is such a spoilt bag of tantrum, but that she gets no consequences for her strops. If you consider that we're looking at a small snapshot in the life of someone hundreds of years old, you'd think she'd have a bit more balance, more finesse, than the presented one who just pulls stroppy faces when someone doesn't show her 'respect'.
And, yes, it's only a small episode in what's meant to be a long life, but you'd like to see a bit of character development. This is good story-telling. Instead (so far) we're expected to accept that the life-changing events that turned her from a blood-thirsty foot-stamper to a more serene source of wisdom and strength happened sometime between this series and the Fellowship of the Ring.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

But Amazon relies on investors and investors tend to shy away from money-pits.
If Bezos tells them "Hey, the more we lose money on this project, the more we'll earn on the service", I'm not sure they'd go for it. The old saw of "No such thing as bad publicity" has been disproved long ago. So it's hard to reason that their most expensive property has lost most of the money isn't exactly selling well.

They don't want to lose money but can afford to do so, they will not continue to spend money on it if the perceived gains are not enough.

 

[Stormkhan]

They don't want to lose money but can afford to do so, they will not continue to spend money on it if the perceived gains are not enough.

I think Bezos is holding fire now; he's having too much fun sniggering about Musk's takeover of Twitter.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

I think Bezos is holding fire now; he's having too much fun sniggering about Musk's takeover of Twitter.

That might be the only thing I have in common with Bezos.

 

[Kondoru]

Finished it.

Its....slow. Some commentors wonder if the next series will pick up the action.

Lots of pretty scenery but only one rock...by the looks of it, mountain limestone.

(yes, yes, I know...)

The Harfoots, though possessed of a pixy charm, (I know JRRT would have hated the term) Are not Irish.

No

a) Donkeys
b) Turf huts
c) Fighting
d) Poteen. (Whatever that is)

The Orcs are working class but posh enough to own a Chinese Crested.

Poor Adar. (Always been my theory that the lower sort of Elf is no better than orcs).

I still cant get my heard around the Numorean ships rigs...TWO masts?????

Galadriel would know Halbarad. (Recall in Canon she didnt like Annatar, who claimed to be a Mair of Aule...Galadriel was a pupil of Aules so she would recognise him...and of course, this is why she likes dwarves, much to Celeborns disgust) She might not recognise him as Sauron though.

Shes lost Celeborn...careless girl.

Celebrimbor is an American. (Which means, wait for it, Feanor is an Am...)

He produces too flashy, too big, rings. (I have always envisioned Elves as having restrained tastes but some descriptions of the Noldor makes you wonder).

 

[Stormkhan]

I agree with the elven jewelry style. My feeling is that they'd be apparently delicate and have an intricate aesthetic.

 

[maximus otter]

Bernard Hill, the actor who played King Théoden in Peter Jackson’s seminal The Lord of the Rings trilogy, has slammed Amazon’s controversial The Rings of Power series as a mere cash-grab, “not like the real thing”.

The 77-year-old British actor, immortalised in cinema by such scenes as Peter Jackson’s adaption of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, in which he leads the Ride of the Rohirrim against Sauron’s army, gave his verdict on Amazon’s series in comments to Metro.

“No, not interested,” he said when asked if he had watched [it].

“It’s a money-making venture and I’m not interested in watching that or being in it,” Hill continued, leaving his interlocutor in no doubt that his opinion of the show was actively negative rather than merely indifferent.

“Good luck to them and all that stuff but it’s not like the real thing,” he added for good measure.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...-amazons-rings-of-power-money-making-venture/

maximus otter

 

[BS3]

Finished it.

Its....slow. Some commentors wonder if the next series will pick up the action.

Lots of pretty scenery but only one rock...by the looks of it, mountain limestone.

(yes, yes, I know...)

The Harfoots, though possessed of a pixy charm, (I know JRRT would have hated the term) Are not Irish.

No

a) Donkeys
b) Turf huts
c) Fighting
d) Poteen. (Whatever that is)

The Orcs are working class but posh enough to own a Chinese Crested.

Poor Adar. (Always been my theory that the lower sort of Elf is no better than orcs).

I still cant get my heard around the Numorean ships rigs...TWO masts?????

Galadriel would know Halbarad. (Recall in Canon she didnt like Annatar, who claimed to be a Mair of Aule...Galadriel was a pupil of Aules so she would recognise him...and of course, this is why she likes dwarves, much to Celeborns disgust) She might not recognise him as Sauron though.

Shes lost Celeborn...careless girl.

Celebrimbor is an American. (Which means, wait for it, Feanor is an Am...)

He produces too flashy, too big, rings. (I have always envisioned Elves as having restrained tastes but some descriptions of the Noldor makes you wonder).

I couldn't believe they made Lenny Henry do a laughably bad Irish accent. I mean his native accent is entirely appropriate for Tolkien's hobbits!

Yeah, the rings looked pretty dire. I never really liked the blocky aesthetic that Jackson, and therefore this series, used for dwarf architecture either, and which I think they got from John Howe's illustrations.

Strangely enough I didn't mind Halbrand so much; he wasn't particularly Tolkienesque but seems like what I'd imagine a fallen Maia trying to keep a low profile might be like. Tolkien would never have had a kingdom as idiotically named as "The Southlands", though; he put a stupid amount of effort into his place names in whatever language.

 

[Stormkhan]

Tolkien would never have had a kingdom as idiotically named as "The Southlands", though; he put a stupid amount of effort into his place names in whatever language.

Ah, but I get the impression that the writers felt they had to telegraph everything, to appeal to non-fans.
The clear naming of the 'new' Mordor is an example.

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

I couldn't believe they made Lenny Henry do a laughably bad Irish accent. I mean his native accent is entirely appropriate for Tolkien's hobbits!

Yeah, the rings looked pretty dire. I never really liked the blocky aesthetic that Jackson, and therefore this series, used for dwarf architecture either, and which I think they got from John Howe's illustrations.

Strangely enough I didn't mind Halbrand so much; he wasn't particularly Tolkienesque but seems like what I'd imagine a fallen Maia trying to keep a low profile might be like. Tolkien would never have had a kingdom as idiotically named as "The Southlands", though; he put a stupid amount of effort into his place names in whatever language.

Yes, finally they have someone with an actual West Mids accent in a Tolkien thing and they make him speak Oirish (to appeal to the US audience, no doubt).

"The Fall of Numenor" has just been published, which puts all the JRRT Second Age stuff in one place - and right there, they'd have had source material to use, (all of it previously in print just spread over different books), to compile something that was at least in line with Tolkien.

Got to the end of this and have since completed my xmas annual re-watch of LOTR and so have thought a bit more about this. Rings of Power has one very central problem - the mis-casting of Galadriel. So unlikeable, nothing to identify with there, an utter void of personality with a face like a slapped arse the entire way through. Replace her for series 2, or the thing will fail further.

I read that the producers/show runners and writers were immersed in Tolkien lore but - clearly not. The thing also flopped because it was up against The House of the Dragon which was good, and also benefited from some solid central performances (Matt Smith in particular). I hated the soap opera BS trailers for RoP as well ("Who is Sauron?") I pretty well didn't care who the feck was Sauron by the end or whether the strangely unlikeable naked bloke who dropped in on the hobbits was Gandalf, a random blue wizard, or Radaghast (or Sauron).

Didn't know who half the characters were, and I cared half as much as I should've done about the other half - to paraphrase Bilbo.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Yes, finally they have someone with an actual West Mids accent in a Tolkien thing and they make him speak Oirish (to appeal to the US audience, no doubt).

"The Fall of Numenor" has just been published, which puts all the JRRT Second Age stuff in one place - and right there, they'd have had source material to use, (all of it previously in print just spread over different books), to compile something that was at least in line with Tolkien.

Got to the end of this and have since completed my xmas annual re-watch of LOTR and so have thought a bit more about this. Rings of Power has one very central problem - the mis-casting of Galadriel. So unlikeable, nothing to identify with there, an utter void of personality with a face like a slapped arse the entire way through. Replace her for series 2, or the thing will fail further.

I read that the producers/show runners and writers were immersed in Tolkien lore but - clearly not. The thing also flopped because it was up against The House of the Dragon which was good, and also benefited from some solid central performances (Matt Smith in particular). I hated the soap opera BS trailers for RoP as well ("Who is Sauron?") I pretty well didn't care who the feck was Sauron by the end or whether the strangely unlikeable naked bloke who dropped in on the hobbits was Gandalf, a random blue wizard, or Radaghast (or Sauron).

Didn't know who half the characters were, and I cared half as much as I should've done about the other half - to paraphrase Bilbo.

Absolutely this!
Whilst Lenny Henry's cringeworthy Leprechaun impersonation attracted much criticism, the real hoots of derision were reserved for spoilt brat Galadriel, who seemed to be stuck in a teenage tantrum.

House of the Dragon and even Witcher Blood Origins were far more enjoyable.

 

[Kondoru]

Yes...They got her so wrong.

Shes not a teenager any more; Though JRRT interestingly said that some elves never really grow up.

Galadriel should have presence.

Shes 6`4" tall, is probably built to match, has a deep voice. She isnt the Lady of the Golden Woods, not yet, but she could have Numenor on a plate if she wanted.

Shes not a drop in, affluenza elf who is set to embarrass Numenor, a society who want to believe they are good as elves and like as not going to react poorly if the real deal turn up; "Give me your boats, your young men, your archives and your beer..."

But yes, she is Tomboy, that I do agree with.

 

[BS3]

Having ploughed my way through the Silmarillion etc I'm comfortable enough with the idea of proud, rash, impulsive elves-of-action but get the feeling what they were really (but unsuccessfully) trying to establish with Galadriel is that she'd become a bit unhinged as a result of the war. Prologue aside I don't think enough time was taken to establish the character.

As someone who really didn't like the films that much, I was still surprised how much I enjoyed the series though. I guess the sketchiness of the material they're adapting means there's less at stake - I can appreciate it as a Tolkien-flavoured thing rather than a dramatisation of an actual book.

Having rewatched a bit of it I also still liked their conception of Sauron a lot more than I thought I would. If a fallen Maia, the sort of being that considered himself far superior to everyone else, was appearing in the condition of a 'low man' then I think the cocky, smirking, manipulative demeanour of Halbrand was actually about right.

The elves were mostly pretty good - I liked the interpretation of Elrond and Gil-Galad and thought the ambition, vanity and slight note of desperation Charles Edwards brought to Celebrimbor was spot on, actually. The mithril thing was ridiculous but maybe they're going to run with it as an 'apocryphal' cover story?

Liked the Numenor visuals but could have done without the tedious domestic stuff around Isildur, similarly I thought the hobbit storyline just slowed things up.

 

[Cochise]

Eowyn. My kind of woman. Leave out the drippy Arwen. (The film versions). My wife was dark haired but entirely capable of chopping the heads off anyone who threatened her loved ones. I fondly remember her putting the steel heel of her boot (New Rock or something?) through a muggers' foot.

 

[Tunn11]

Eowyn. My kind of woman. Leave out the drippy Arwen. (The film versions). My wife was dark haired but entirely capable of chopping the heads off anyone who threatened her loved ones. I fondly remember her putting the steel heel of her boot (New Rock or something?) through a muggers' foot.

Jackson said he gave Arwen the shieldmaiden role in the film because he wanted a strong female character. Never got that; Galadriel led the White Council, Eowyn took on the Witch King of Angmer - and Shelob would have been female!

 

[Kondoru]

His Arwen was such a loser.

Arwen is a girl with a choice between

A; Being Elronds supernumerary unmarried daughter for eternity.

B: Getting married, being Queen, starting a dynasty, and dying gracefully.

Guess which JRRT wants her to choose? Escape from immortality is one of his favourite themes.

Anyhow

https://kotaku.com/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-of-power-series-flop-expensive-1850296353

What did I say??

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I note that filming of series 2 started back in October 2022, so do you reckon they had time to take on board the feedback from viewers to address and rectify the most egregious faults with the plot and characters for the next series?
Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Stormkhan]

Tricky call.
To take on the criticism, they can't keep up the narrative that they were just haters. However, most of said criticism wasn't about production, or even the acting, but about the poor quality of writing.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Tricky call.
To take on the criticism, they can't keep up the narrative that they were just haters. However, most of said criticism wasn't about production, or even the acting, but about the poor quality of writing.

And ignorant of the characters they depicted - notably Galadriel, who bears no resemblance to Tolkien's creation.

 

[Lb8535]

Jackson said he gave Arwen the shieldmaiden role in the film because he wanted a strong female character. Never got that; Galadriel led the White Council, Eowyn took on the Witch King of Angmer - and Shelob would have been female!

Jackson said he gave Arwen the shieldmaiden role in the film because he wanted a strong female character. Never got that; Galadriel led the White Council, Eowyn took on the Witch King of Angmer - and Shelob would have been female!

As I watched Tyler in FOR I kept seeing an overlay of her in Armageddon which certainly added to her assertiveness.