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Mad For God: When Christians Attack

I think if someone is barking enough to say 'god made me do it', god told me to do it' or words to that effect, whatever race colour or creed, they should be given double the sentence for their crime. They are obviously as mad as cheese, and likely to go on another bender if left to their own devices and let off. I think you 'd find a few less pleas to that effect if they knew what blaming god would bring and were sane enough to know they are talking B*****ks. :twisted:
 
Is God in the brain?

April 1, 2006, 12:00AM

Accused baby killer has tumor

Defense says mass in her brain could have led to the severing of infant's arms

By THOMAS KOROSEC
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

MCKINNEY - A mother accused of severing the arms of her 10-month-old daughter has a brain tumor that could have caused the psychotic hallucinations her defense says led to the killing, a Collin County Jail psychiatrist testified Friday.

The cancerous tumor in the middle of Dena Schlosser's brain and its possible effects were not part of the 37-year-old Plano woman's capital murder trial in February, which ended with a deadlocked jury and a mistrial.

At a hearing Friday, Schlosser waived her right to a jury trial. She will allow state District Judge Chris Oldner to decide the case. Oldner said he will render his verdict April 7 after reviewing transcripts of the first trial.

During seven days of testimony in February, three psychiatrists testified that Schlosser was mentally ill, did not know right from wrong and therefore was legally insane when she cut off the arms of her infant daughter, Maggie, in a crib in the family's apartment in November 2004.

Jurors heard only a brief mention of a possible tumor in testimony from Dr. Joseph Black, who treated Schlosser at the North Texas State Hospital in Vernon after she was sent there after a February 2005 ruling that she was incompetent to stand trial.

David Haynes, Schlosser's attorney, said he knew little about the tumor at the time of the trial and did not make the matter part of his case.

At Friday's hearing, Dr. Xiaoyan Wu, Collin County's jail psychiatrist, testified that a counselor at the jail had kept Black's records locked in a desk until three weeks ago.

After reviewing them, Wu said she instructed a neurologist to give Schlosser an MRI. It revealed a lesion in the right middle part of Schlosser's brain, the doctor said.

Wu said it is possible the tumor created a condition known as peduncular hallucinosis, with symptoms such as vivid, recurring hallucinations, sleep disorders and problems with motor skills.

Testimony in the first trial showed that several times in the year before the killing Schlosser had religious-based hallucinations and delusions that she thought God wanted her to kill the child.

In jail, Schlosser once lost her balance, fell and fractured a bone, Wu said.

Wu said that while Schlosser's hallucinations were consistent with a brain tumor, she was not certain that they were directly linked.

Haynes said after the hearing that he believes Black's records were mislaid by the Collin County Jail counselor by mistake. "These things happen," he said.

Collin County prosecutor Curtis Howard said Black's records were available to both sides and were admitted into evidence in the case.

"It was Dr. Wu who didn't know about it because she was a witness and not in the courtroom," he said.

Howard said the recent MRI revealed more about the mass in Schlosser's brain than had been in Black's records.

Wu testified that Schlosser is currently not receiving treatment for the tumor. A neurosurgeon needs to be called in to evaluate her, Wu said.

Haynes said he was confident that Oldner would see the case as 11 of the 12 jurors saw it last month. Only one held out for conviction.

Both sides agreed not to present evidence to the judge that was not presented in the first trial. But they did so only after Wu took the stand and testified about Schlosser's brain tumor.

Haynes said the judge can take that into consideration as he decides the case.

If convicted, Schlosser would face life in prison. If acquitted by reason of insanity, she likely will be sent to a state mental hospital for treatment.

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3763454.html

And the verdict:

Texas Mom Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity

By JULIA GLICK, Associated Press Writer Sat Apr 8, 6:54 AM ET

McKINNEY, Texas - A mother charged with murder for cutting off her baby daughter's arms in what her lawyers portrayed as a religious frenzy was found not guilty by reason of insanity Friday by a judge.
ADVERTISEMENT

Dena Schlosser, 38, will be sent to a state mental hospital and held until she is no longer deemed a threat to herself or others.

"My own expectation is that she will remain at the hospital for many, many years," defense attorney David Haynes said.

Police arrested Schlosser in 2004 after she told a 911 operator she had severed her baby's arms. Officers found the 10-month-old baby, Margaret, near death in her crib and Schlosser covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a hymn.

In issuing the verdict, Judge Chris Oldner said Schlosser had met the legal standard for insanity, but did not elaborate. Both the defense and the prosecution had agreed to let the judge decide the case after Schlosser's previous trial ended in a deadlocked jury in February.

Last week it was disclosed that Schlosser had a brain tumor that defense attorneys said could have caused hallucinations.

Schlosser glanced toward her former stepfather but said nothing as she was led away.

"We have a just verdict in a just case, but yes, it is bittersweet," her lawyer said. "She feels it is her best chance to get better."

The case hinged on whether Schlosser was unable to grasp the wrongfulness of the crime — the Texas standard for insanity.

The judge relied on evidence he had heard during the first trial. Among other things, psychiatrists said Schlosser suffered severe mood swings and religious hallucinations. One doctor said Schlosser told him she wanted to cut off her baby's arms and her own limbs and head and give them to God.

But prosecutor Curtis Howard said the fact Schlosser told her husband that she had "killed the baby" proved she knew what she was doing. "This is a case that could have gone both ways; we knew that," Howard said after the verdict.

Schlosser's brain tumor did not become an issue until last week. A witness in her first trial alluded to a possible brain lesion, but miscommunication between doctors delayed confirmation by a neurologist until weeks after the mistrial.

Bob Nicholas, Schlosser's former stepfather and the only relative in attendance Friday, said the verdict was the best possible outcome.

"This whole case, this whole situation with Dena, was a tragedy," Nicholas said. "We've got the loss of Maggie, who never reached her first birthday. We've got two little girls coping with the loss of their sister and of a loving, caring mother."

John Schlosser, Schlosser's husband, has filed for divorce and has custody of the couple's two other daughters.

In another similar Texas case, a jury rejected an insanity defense in 2002 from Andrea Yates, the Houston mother who drowned her five children in the bathtub. She won a new trial on appeal and will again use an insanity defense in June.

In 2004 in East Texas, Deanna Laney was acquitted by reason of insanity after killing her 6- and 8-year-old sons by bashing their skulls with rocks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060408/ap_ ... vered_arms
 
Father: God Told Me To Sacrifice Wife, Children

POSTED: 8:02 am EDT April 26, 2006
UPDATED: 11:52 am EDT April 26, 2006

A man sentenced to 90 years in prison for attempting to set his Orlando home on fire with his family sleeping inside said God commanded him to sacrifice his wife and children, according to a Local 6 News report.

Hans Missal, 51, admitted to dousing his Orlando home with gasoline last March. Missal also duct-taped the doors shut and ran a hose from the house to a car tailpipe while his wife, son and daughter slept before he attempted to set the structure on fire.

Tuesday, Missal said he was following God's orders.

Missal compared himself to the Bible's Abraham, who was commanded by God to sacrifice his own son, and said he received a message from God to kill his entire family, Local 6 News reported.

"God had a plan for my family, I had no idea what that plan was," Missal said. "I trusted God and God was faithful to the end."

Missal said God stopped the sacrifice by waking up the family before he set the house on fire.

"I know that God was putting me through a test," Missal said. "He said, 'Do you love your family?' And absolutely, I love them more than anything in this world."

"Missal understands why people may think he is mentally ill," Local 6 reporter Mike DeForest said. "But he said it was all God's plan for him to serve the next 90 years in prison."

He also said it was God's plan for his wife and children to endure such mental anguish.

"I know too many children who have easy lives and they suffer for that," Missal said.

"So, this was to make your kid stronger?" DeForest said.

"It was not to make my kid stronger, but they will be stronger because of it," Missal said.

Missal is leading a Bible study group at jail.

He will soon be transported to state prison, where he plans to spend time praying.


--------
Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.


Copyright 2006 by Internet Broadcasting Systems and Local6.com.

www.local6.com/news/9009375/detail.html
 
Interesting point re: is god in the brain. From BBC.CO.UK/SCIENCE
God on the Brain - questions and answers
What are the temporal lobes of the brain?

The temporal lobe controls hearing, speech and memory. The brain has two temporal lobes, one on each side of the brain, located near the ears. The two are interchangeable so if one is damaged the other is usually able to take over the other's function.

What is temporal lobe epilepsy?

It is a condition in which the patient suffers repeated seizures when there is abnormal electrical activity in the temporal lobes of the brain. These seizures may be simple partial seizures without loss of awareness or they can be complex partial seizures with loss of awareness. The patient loses awareness during a complex partial seizure because the seizure spreads to both lobes, causing memory loss. The condition was first recognised in 1881.

What percentage of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy suffer from religious hallucinations?

It is difficult to say because unless the doctor brings up the subject directly with the patient, they may never know if the patient has religious hallucinations. Estimates vary between 10 and 70% , but most neurologists believe only a minority of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy suffer from hallucinations.

Are scientists arguing that all religious experiences can be related to temporal lobe epilepsy?

Not at all. While studies have clearly shown a relationship between religious experience and temporal lobe epilepsy. This does not explain all religious experience by any means. Religious and spiritual experiences are highly complex, involving emotions, thoughts, sensations and behaviours. But scientists do believe that patients with temporal lobe epilepsy, who experience religious hallucinations may provide a valuable model in showing how certain types of religious experience effect the human brain.

Does this work suggest there is a specific 'god spot' in the brain?

Although the temporal lobes are clearly important in religious experience, they are not the whole story. Already the work of Dr Andrew Newberg has shown that a part of the brain called parietal lobes are important. Additionally, very different patterns of brain activity may appear, depending on the particular experience the individual is having. For example, a near death experience might result in different activity patterns from those found in a person who is meditating. Scientists now believe that a number of structures in the brain need to work together to help us experience spirituality and religion.

Are we 'hardwired' for god?

The term 'hardwired' suggests that we were purposefully designed that way. Neuroscience can't answer that question. However what it can say is that the brain does seem to predisposed towards a belief in spiritual and religious matters. The big mystery is how and why this came about.

How does Dr Persinger induce artificially religious experiences in his patients?

Dr Persinger has designed a helmet that produces a very weak rotating magnetic field of between ten nanotesla and one microtesla over the temporal lobes of the brain. This is placed on the subject's head and they are placed in a quiet chamber while blindfolded. So that there is no risk of 'suggestion', the only information that the subjects are given is that they are going in for a relaxation experiment. Neither the subject nor the experimenter carrying out the test has any idea of the true purpose of the experiment. In addition to this, the experiment is also run with the field switched both off and on. This procedure Dr Persinger claims will induce an experience in over 80% of test subjects.

What sort of experiences do subjects report?

This is very dependent on the belief system of the individual subjects. Dr Persinger talks about his subjects feeling a 'sensed presence' - feeling that somebody was in the chamber with them. Subjects who are strongly religious are likely to interpret this presence as god. Whereas, atheists may also report a 'sensed presence' but attribute the phenomena to a trick of brain chemistry, perhaps comparable to when they have taken drugs in the past.

Could it be there is a genetic component to religious belief?

Religious behaviour is so complex it is very unlikely that there will be a single gene for religious activity, but it does seem as if there is some sort of as yet unidentified genetic component. Several studies of identical twins separated at birth and brought up separately have measured religiosity. Religiosity is defined as the intensity of religious belief. These studies have shown that there appears to be about a 50% component to religiosity.

Clearly, what religion you are brought up in is largely dependent upon the culture into which you are born, but what appears to have a significant genetic component is your level of religious intensity.

Will any of this research ever be able to establish whether god exists or not?

Whether god exists or not is something that neuroscience cannot answer. For example, if we take a brain image of a person when they are looking at a picture, we will see various parts of the brain being activated, such as the visual cortex. But the brain image cannot tell us whether or not there is actually a picture 'out there' or whether the person is creating the picture in their own mind. To a certain degree, we all create our own sense of reality. Getting to what is real is the tricky part.
 
I've always been baffled by this.
When these people get 'voices in the head', don't they ever stop to question the whole thing? I mean, they make the assumption that it's God telling them to do these awful things. What makes them think it's not the Devil? :confused:
 
I don't think it's necessarily in the nature of mental illness to be able to be circumspect about such things at the time that they're happening, and i guess too that within a certain religious background/culture/upbringing, there's a certain acceptability to having 'god' talk to you, rather than perhaps 'the devil' or 'aliens'.
 
Sometimes they do think it's the devil, Myth. You're likely to resist doing what you're told much longer if you think the devil's talking to you than if you think it's God.

The thing to remember is that, by definition, mental and emotional illness involves a disruption of the normal processes of the brain. Even if you accept that some of these cases might involve possession by an independent entity, a fully functional, normal brain would be a hindrance to possession. These experiences involve a total breakdown of your relationship to reality. You no more react rationally to the voices in your head than you do to circumstances in a dream - think of all the things you've done in a dream state which on waking made no sense at all and are even reprehensible!

The more self-aware you are, the more likely you are to get assistance before the worst happens, but what if the people you ask assistance of don't actually grasp what you're trying to communicate? What if you're hearing voices in a culture that treats the Bible as if it were literally true? God and devils both speak to people in the Bible, and frankly they aren't that easy to tell apart!

Mundane, sane, practical people may not understand what you're going through at all. Mary Lamb, the innovative and intelligent children's author who also, acting as hostess for her brother Charles, presided over the most popular evening gatherings of Romantic Era London (where "conversation was the champagne"), was very self-aware, and in the days before her prominence she told her family many times that looking after her invalid mother and aunt, her father, both her brothers, and the family sewing business was getting to be too much for her. Her parents' solution was to get her an apprentice - a nine-year-old girl away from home for the first time. This added bit of stress proved too much, and Miss Lamb found herself chasing the child around the dinner table with a carving knife until her mother yelled at her, at which point she turned around and plunged the knife into her own mother's chest.

After that point, people started taking her seriously when she said she couldn't cope, and she never had another violent episode. But it was a little late for her mother then!
 
When God Sanctions Killing, The People Listen

Some interestng findings in the March issue of Psychological Science suggest a link between scripture and violence.

When God Sanctions Killing, The People Listen
Main Category: Psychology / Psychiatry News
Article Date: 28 Feb 2007 - 7:00 PST

New research published in the March issue of Psychological Science may help elucidate the relationship between religious indoctrination and violence, a topic that has gained renewed notoriety in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks. In the article, University of Michigan psychologist Brad Bushman and his colleagues suggest that scriptural violence sanctioned by God can increase aggression, especially in believers.

The authors set out to examine this interaction by conducting experiments with undergraduates at two religiously contrasting universities: Brigham Young University where 99% of students report believing in God and the Bible and Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam where just 50% report believing in God and 27% believe in the bible.

After reporting their religious affiliation and beliefs, the participants read a parable adapted from a relatively obscure passage in the King James Bible describing the brutal torture and murder of a woman, and her husband's subsequent revenge on her attackers. Half of the participants were told that the passage came from the Book of Judges in the Old Testament while the other half were told it was an ancient scroll discovered in an archaeological expedition.

In addition to the scriptural distinction, half of the participants from both the bible and the ancient scroll groups read an adjusted version that included the verse:

"The Lord commanded Israel to take arms against their brothers and chasten them before the LORD."

The participants were then placed in pairs and instructed to compete in a simple reaction task. The winner of the task would be able to "blast" his or her partner with noise up to 105 decibels, about the same volume as a fire alarm. The test measures aggression.

As expected, the Brigham Young students were more aggressive (i.e. louder) with their blasts if they had been told that the passage they had previously read was from the bible rather than a scroll. Likewise, participants were more aggressive if they had read the additional verse that depicts God sanctioning violence.

At the more secular Vrije Universiteit, the results were surprisingly similar. Although Vrije students were less likely to be influenced by the source of the material, they blasted more aggressively when the passage that they read included the sanctioning of the violence by God. This finding held true even for non-believers, though to a lesser extent.

The research sheds light on the possible origins of violent religious fundamentalism and falls in line with theories proposed by scholars of religious terrorism, who hypothesize that exposure to violent scriptures may induce extremists to engage in aggressive actions. "To the extent religious extremists engage in prolonged, selective reading of the scriptures, focusing on violent retribution toward unbelievers instead of the overall message of acceptance and understanding," writes Bushman "one might expect to see increased brutality"

###

Psychological Science is ranked among the top 10 general psychology journals for impact by the Institute for Scientific Information.

Contact: Brad Bushman
Association for Psychological Science
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... wsid=63847
 
The research sheds light on the possible origins of violent religious fundamentalism and falls in line with theories proposed by scholars of religious terrorism, who hypothesize that exposure to violent scriptures may induce extremists to engage in aggressive actions. "To the extent religious extremists engage in prolonged, selective reading of the scriptures, focusing on violent retribution toward unbelievers instead of the overall message of acceptance and understanding," writes Bushman "one might expect to see increased brutality"

So, after the next high school massacre, we can add religious texts to the usual list of problems in society which are blamed?

Presumably exposure to violence in games, films or other literature could give a similar effect?
 
blasted more aggressively when the passage that they read included the sanctioning of the violence by God. This finding held true even for non-believers, though to a lesser extent.

This indicates that specifically God-sanctioned violence is the bigger problem. You'd have to test this against other violence in media. For instance, is the violence committed by the Captain in Pan's Labyrinth less inspirational than the violence Mercedes uses against him in self-defense? Or does the overall dark tone of this movie dampen this behavioral effect? Is the effect different is you see the entire movie or only specific scenes; say the Captain's murder of the poachers? Are either of the scenes mentioned mitigated if viewed isolated from each other but in company with the scene in which Ofelia refuses to let the faun let her baby brother's blood? Does it matter what order the scenes are shown in? Is there a difference in effect between material from a scripture, from a political leader, and from a religious leader?

Do the age and sex of the subject matter? Do print, film, audio-only, visual-only, comic book, and game material have different effects? Do different translations of the same passage (say, King James vs. a paraphrase with more mundane language and a duller style) have measurable differences in effect?

This is just the preliminary groundwork. People are always making huge claims about the effects of media on the fragile psyches of other people, and they seldom to never have anything resembling proper scientific backup. Nor will any scientific work that doesn't match expectations be allowed to affect public policy, while pseudoscientific work which confirms prejudice will be used as the excuse for all sorts of excesses.
 
I find the article title misleading. It isn't God sanctioning the violence is it really? It's someone who's written something. Unless you're a biblical-literalist God doesn't = Bible.
 
So seeing as we have ratings for films etc. based on levels of violence, sex etc. can I suggest we do the same for the various works of scripture? Keep the evil Bible and Koran (and any other work of scripture) away from the eyes of the young.
 
Any belief should be kept from young and influential minds until they have finished growing and can make up their own minds, using some of thier life experiences.
If you are young, you are gullible as you have not much to compare anything to. Whatever your parents say counts as they are imprinted in your mind from birth onwards. If parents tell you to read religious texts and believe in them you have been caught.
The texts themselves then strengthen a childs belief in them further by using circular reinforcement [i.e "If you don't believe, you are going to be punished or if you don't see sense in these scripts you have been led astray by satan or whoever is the arch enemy].
I remember as a child believing a lot, fortunately I am stubborn and as I grew up my scientific mind took over and I wouldn't believe anything unless it makes sense.
Religious books should have a rating of 18 and it should be illegal to teach anything from them to young minds, punishable by either hefty fines or prison.
 
Short of locking a child in a box until they're 18, I don't see how you could possibly shield them from "any belief". Should history teachers be banned from covering the role of organised religion in history? Should works of fiction which make reference to religious beliefs also be banned? And what about Aborigines or Native Americans - should they also be prevented from sharing their traditional spiritual beliefs with their offspring? Or is it merely Christianity that you wish to stamp out?
 
What about culture like Japan where religion is so ingrained into everyday life that it's impossible to discern what is a religious practice and what is simply cultural? What would you ban there?
 
I couldn't find a thread on attempted deicide, so figured this would have to do. My guess is this boy isn't going to be judged fit to stand trial.

http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=88256b22-22f6-4db9-85fe-04db33dea1ab

Teen accused in school plot wanted to kill Jesus

Last Update: 4/29 4:16 pm

Ryan Schallenberger appears in a Chesterfield, South Carolina courtroom after he was arrested for plotting to blow up his high school April 21, 2008. (CNN) FLORENCE, S.C. (AP) - Federal authorities say a South Carolina teen accused of plotting to blow up his high school told police that he wanted to die, go to heaven and kill Jesus.

A dark portrait of Ryan Schallenberger emerged Tuesday in a federal courtroom as prosecutors argued the teen needs a psychological evaluation.

An ATF agent says Schallenberger told a sheriff about his wish to die after his arrest. Prosecutors also played a 911 tape of the teen's mother calling police after he smashed his head into a wall. She says on the tape her son threatened to shoot police if they were called to his home.

Authorities say the teen bought materials to make several bombs and had written a journal detailing his plans to attack Chesterfield High School.

©2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 
Priest in court for scratching car with key
By Auslan Cramb
Last Updated: 9:34PM BST 13/06/2008

A priest who was so irritated to find a car blocking the pavement in front of him that he took revenge by scraping a key along the side has been ordered to pay £200 in compensation to the driver.
Michael Voinus, 60, scratched the vehicle in a busy town centre and then told an onlooker who challenged him that it was something he did regularly.

He also shouted that "the police are all protestants" and claimed, after being hauled in front of magistrates, that he was prosecuted because he was wearing a dog collar, adding: "The church had to contend with this for the firsst 300 years of its existence." :shock:

The Rev Voinus, who preaches at the Holy Catholic Church Western Rite, Middleport, Staffs, was convicted of criminal damage, given an 18-month conditional discharge and ordered to pay £200 in compensation.

The former teacher, who denied the charge, was also forced to apologise to the court after being threatened with a night in the cells for continually protesting his innocence.

The district judge at North Staffordshire Magistrates said he was giving him a conditional discharge because he wanted a punishment that hung over his head "like the sword of Damocles".

Heather Johnson, a witness who picked out Voinus at an identity parade, told the court: "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He turned and looked at me and said, 'that will teach them to park on the pavement'."

The car was parked outside a garage, where it was due to be repaired, in the centre of Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent. A spate of car vandalism had been reported to police in the weeks before the incident in February.

Voinus said that most of his "small" congregation knew about the incident, and blamed it on a "growing anti-Christian attitude" in Stoke-on-Trent. :roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... h-key.html
 
Cornish bible student jailed in road rage knife row
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 545454.stm

A bible student who threatened a dustman with a knife during a road rage incident has been jailed for 15 months.

Simon Luke, 35, of Polsue Way, Tresillian, Cornwall, overtook a line of six vehicles when he was late for an appointment, Truro Crown Court heard.

When refuse collector Treve Stoddern confronted Luke at traffic lights, the bible student pulled out a knife and Mr Stoddern received cuts to his hands.

Luke was convicted of unlawful wounding and having a knife in a public place.

The court was told there had been "pushing and shoving" between the two men before Luke produced a 12in (30cm) bladed fishing knife from behind his back and brought it up to the binman's face.

'Awful error'

Mr Stoddern, 50, went to grab the knife with his hands and his fingers were cut as Luke pulled back the blade.

Judge Stephen Wildblood QC told Luke: "This was knife crime. There was no reason for you to take the knife with you out of your car."

Mr Stoddern said he intended to give Luke a piece of his mind because "he had driven so dangerously and could have killed someone", but Luke accused Mr Stoddern of being "super aggressive".

"The way he was acting I thought he was going to kill me," Luke told the court.

The incident happened on the A394 Helston to Falmouth road last June as computer engineer Luke raced to his next appointment.

Beeping horns

Defence lawyer Piers Norsworthy said Luke's behaviour was caused by frustration, but he was not a violent man.

"He made an awful error, a big mistake, the injury caused was by his reckless not deliberate actions," he said.

"He was frustrated behind a dustcart and the beeping horns and Mr Stoddern's behaviour in the cab."

Luke, who has no previous convictions, was described in court as a "sincere Christian man" and a "kind and compassionate man" by his bible college friends.

The judge, sitting in Exeter Crown Court, ordered Luke to pay his victim £500 compensation, even though he accepted there had been some provocation.
 
Some of these stories are just chilling - all the more chilling in that some resonate with me apropos some of the Christian (30s revivalist) "born agains" I encounter in my capacity as a regional school arts co-ordinator.
 
"1930s Revivalist"

Pardon, but what is a "30s revivalist"? I'm a Christian but the phrase is unknown to me.

And of course all Christians are "born again," by definition.
 
Actually, to pick nits with you Mr. Radio, not all Christian fundamentalists claim to be born again. This is Calvanism we're talking about here. It's perfectly possible to accept the Gospel as literal truth and not feel that personal connection to God that is supposed to signal salvation. It's not enough to say you believe, or to believe you believe; God has to personally come into your heart and Save you. I believe the reasoning is that since Jesus alone saves, and since the number of places in Heaven is limited, a conscious decision on your part isn't sufficient. All that does is bring you to Jesus's attention: Hi, God, I'm trying to be ready for you.

After all, if you decide to believe something - you don't.

Many people do mean "Are you saved?" when they ask "Are you a Christian?" And many people do mean "I got saved" when they say "I became a Christian." But professing the religion without believing yourself to be born-again (yet) is possible.
 
Hi, Peni. So nice to be in contact with you again. We both seem to have been away from this list for a considerable spell.

What was strongly pushed in my Southern Baptist church was that a mere intellectual affirmation that the Christian gospel is true doesn't save anybody and thus doesn't make the affirmer a Christian.

And I have no reason to believe that my original Roman Catholic educators would have had the slightest disagreement with that statement.

I was not defining as "Christian" everybody who sets foot in a church door, not even on a regular and continuing basis.

P. S. My trouble with Christian religions is that I always seemed to be a Calvinist when the religion preached Aquinas and an Aquinist (what's the correct spelling there - my spell checker has refused everything I've tried!) when the religion insisted on Calvinism.
 
TheQuixote said:
'Abusive' nun barred from flight

A woman claiming to be a Franciscan nun has twice been barred from boarding a flight from Shetland to Aberdeen.
Sister Ruth Augustus said that British Airways would not allow her to fly because she was carrying a two foot statue of the Virgin Mary.

But BA said the nun, 64, was grounded because she was abusive to staff.

Sister Augustus has been travelling around Shetland for five days. The isles are the latest stop in her world tour to spread the Christian faith.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/s ... 589897.stm
Published: 2005/05/28 17:23:32 GMT

Shes at it again.

Community order for hoax nun over Nick Clegg letters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20354564

Ruth Augustus said: "I'm not a Muslim terrorist. I'm a Catholic nun."

A 72-year-old woman who sent envelopes containing white powder to parliamentary figures including Nick Clegg has been given a community order.

Ruth Augustus, who claims to be a Catholic nun, was found guilty of six hoaxes involving noxious substances in July.

She has been told she must serve a two-year community order and have mental health treatment.

The letters were intercepted at an east London mail screening centre last year.

The powder was found to be non-hazardous, the Old Bailey heard.

Augustus, of Leyton, east London, accepted that she sent envelopes with letters in them but claimed police put the white powder in.

Devil worship
Mark Kimsey, prosecuting, said three envelopes were intercepted at a mail screening centre on 17 June 2011.

One was addressed to Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg and on the envelope was written "devil worshipping", "freemason", "sex with 30 plus women".

The second was to Baroness Scotland and had a swastika on it and two crosses, and "stop this evil devil worshipping".

The third was to Baroness Kennedy and was marked with a swastika, and "stop these evil devil-worshipping freemasons".

On 1 October last year, three more envelopes were found, addressed to Mr Clegg, Lady Kennedy and MP Edward Leigh.

The envelopes carried similar endorsements and slogans and contained white powder which was found to be non-hazardous.

The court heard that Augustus suffers from a delusional disorder which can be treated within the community.


Nick Clegg was the intended recipient for one of Sister Ruth Augustus' letters.
Augustus was arrested on 7 December and told police: "I'm Sister Ruth, a 71-year-old disabled nun."

'Offensive letters'
She also said: "I look like a terrorist, don't I, working for a charity all over the world, with orphans?

"I'm not a Muslim terrorist, I'm a Catholic nun."

Asked why she had sent a letter to Mr Leigh, she said: "He's a Catholic and goes to Westminster Cathedral."

Of Mr Clegg, she said he "lied about all the tuition fees and everything else, keeping those Tory millionaires and rats in government".

She added: "He boasted about all the women he's had sex with. He's an atheist singing hymns in the Albert Hall."

Mr Justice Saunders said the people she addressed her letters to would not have known the powder was harmless.

He said it would have been "a terrifying experience for them" if the letters had not been intercepted.

The court also heard that two members of the public had previously received offensive letters from Augustus, who was subsequently given a restraining order.

After Augustus was told she could leave court she shouted: "It's run by devil-worshipping freemasons, Nazis who break the law at a huge expense already."
 
Why do these solitary nutters claim to be Catholics? Safety in numbers? They ought to know that stopped working a long while back! :spinning
 
WHAT WOULD JESUS SHOOT?
Churches offering concealed-carry weapons training to attract members


In an effort to increase membership, a number of U.S. churches — including the Church of Christ congregation in this rural village 30 miles north of Columbus — are offering an unconventional public service: Concealed weapons training.

“Church has done a good job with coffee klatsches or whatever, but we haven’t really reached out to guys,” said Jeff Copley, a preacher at the church. “And guys in Morrow Country, they shoot and they hunt.”

Hundreds of students have enrolled in the 10-hour course, which meets the state requirements for earning a concealed weapons permit. The training includes two hours on a church member’s private shooting range.

“I grew up going to church, but hadn’t attended in a number of years,” said David Freeman, 52, a local engineering manager who attended a firearm safety class at the church. “Always considered myself a Christian. I came for the gun classes and have been coming back for two years.”

The Marengo church launched its program several years ago and was likely among the first in the country to offer concealed weapons training. But from Texas to North Carolina, a smattering of congregations have recently followed suit, as ministers seek to capitalize on local enthusiasm for gun culture and demand for carry permit classes to expand their flocks.

Central Baptist Church in Lexington, N.C., held its first concealed weapons classes in March, in what the Rev. Ryan Bennett described as just “another avenue to reach people.”

“We want to draw people in to our campus,” Bennett told a local newspaper at the time. “And we’re going to try anything that we can to do that.”

While conceding that he carries a 9mm pistol with him at all times, he said he doesn’t want his congregation to be labeled “gun-toting.”

“We promote responsibility. We don’t endorse violence,” he said. “It’s just another way to draw people in.”

In Texas, where it’s legal to carry guns into any church without a specific no-firearms policy, Heights Baptist in remote San Angelo began offering concealed carry classes in June. The class was a response to security concerns among congregants.

http://www.thedaily.com/article/2012/11 ... ry-church/
 
As the USA lurches towards default, a timely piece on why the Republican party appear to be almost relishing the bringing about of a new World wide recession. They've got religion.
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/10/christian_delusions_are_driving_the_gop_insane/

Christian delusions are driving the GOP insane

Why aren't Republicans more frightened of a shutdown and a default? Part of the reason is magical thinking

Salon.com. By Amanda Marcotte. 10.10.2013

This article originally appeared on Alternet


Why aren’t Republicans more afraid? The entire premise of both the government shutdown and the threats to force the government into debt default is that Democrats care more about the consequences of these actions than the Republicans do. Republicans may go on TV and shed crocodile tears about national monuments being shut down, but the act isn’t really fooling the voters: The only way to understand these fights is to understand that the GOP is threatening to destroy the government and the world economy in order to get rid of Obamacare (as well as a panoply of other right wing demands). Just as terrorists use the fact that you care more about the lives of the hostages than they do to get leverage, Republican threats rely on believing they don’t care about the consequences, while Democrats do.

So why aren’t they more afraid? Businessweek, hardly a liberal news organization, said the price of default would be “a financial apocalypse” that would cause a worldwide economic depression. This is the sort of thing that affects everyone. Having a right wing ideology doesn’t magically protect your investments from crashing alongside the rest of the stock market.

The willingness of Republicans to take the debt ceiling and the federal budget hostage in order to try to extract concessions from Democrats is probably the most lasting gift that the Tea Party has granted the country. More reasonable Republican politicians fear being primaried by Tea Party candidates. A handful of wide-eyed fanatics in Congress have hijacked the party. The Tea Party base and the hard right politicians driving this entire thing seem oblivious to the consequences. It’s no wonder, since so many of them—particularly those in leadership—are fundamentalist Christians whose religions have distorted their worldview until they cannot actually see what they’re doing and what kind of damage it would cause.

The press often talks about the Tea Party like they’re secularist movement that is interested mainly in promoting “fiscal conservatism”, a vague notion that never actually seems to make good on the promise to save taxpayer money. The reality is much different: The Tea Party is actually driven primarily by fundamentalist Christians whose penchant for magical thinking and belief that they’re being guided by divine forces makes it tough for them to see the real world as it is.

It’s not just that the rogue’s gallery of congress people who are pushing the hardest for hostage-taking as a negotiation tactic also happens to be a bench full of Bible thumpers. Pew Research shows that people who align with the Tea Party are more likely to not only agree with the views of religious conservatives, but are likely to cite religious belief as their prime motivation for their political views. White evangelicals are the religious group most likely to approve of the Tea Party. Looking over the data, it becomes evident that the “Tea Party” is just a new name for the same old white fundamentalists who would rather burn this country to the ground than share it with everyone else, and this latest power play from the Republicans is, in essence, a move from that demographic to assert their “right” to control the country, even if their politicians aren’t in power.

It’s no surprise, under the circumstances, that a movement controlled by fundamentalist Christians would be oblivious to the very real dangers that their actions present. Fundamentalist religion is extremely good at convincing its followers to be more afraid of imaginary threats than real ones, and to engage in downright magical thinking about the possibility that their own choices could work out very badly. When you believe that forcing the government into default in an attempt to derail Obamacare is the Lord’s work, it’s very difficult for you to see that it could have very real, negative effects.

It’s hard for the Christian fundamentalists who run the Republican Party now to worry about the serious economic danger they’re putting the world in, because they are swept up in worrying that President Obama is an agent of the devil and that the world is on the verge of mayhem and apocalypse if they don’t “stop” him somehow, presumably be derailing the Affordable Care Act. Christian conservatives such as Ellis Washington are running around telling each other that the ACA will lead to “the systematic genocide of the weak, minorities, enfeebled, the elderly and political enemies of the God-state.” Twenty percent of Republicans believe Obama is the Antichrist.Washington Times columnist Jeffrey Kuhner argued that Obama is using his signature health care legislation to promote “the destruction of the family, Christian culture”, and demanded that Christians “need to engage in peaceful civil disobedience against President Obama’s signature health care law”.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops joined in, demanding that the Republicans shut down the government rather than let Obamacare go into effect. The excuse was their objection to the requirement that insurance make contraception available without a copayment, saying ending this requirement matters more than “serving their own employees or the neediest Americans.”

The Christian right media has been hammering home the message that Christians should oppose the Affordable Care Act. Pat Necerato of the Christian News Network accused the supporters of the law of committing idolatry and accused people who want health care of being covetous. The Christian Post approvingly reported various Christian leaders, including Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, saying things like the health care law is “a profound attack on our liberties” and lamented “Today is the day I will tell my grandchildren about when they ask me what happened to freedom in America.”

Some in the Christian right straight up believe Obamacare portends the end times. Rick Phillips, writing for Christianity.com, hinted that Obamacare might be predicted in Revelations, though he held back from saying that was certain. Others are less cautious. On the right wing fundamentalist email underground, a conspiracy theory has arisen claiming that Obamacare will require all citizens to have a microchip implanted. While it’s completely untrue, many Christians believe that this means the “mark of the beast” predicted in Revelations that portends the return of Christ and the end of the world.

In other words, the Christian right has worked itself into a frenzy of believing that if this health care law is implemented fully, then we are, in fact, facing down either the end of American Christianity itself or quite possibly the end times themselves. In comparison, it’s hard to be too scared by the worldwide financial collapse that they’re promising to unleash if the Democrats don’t just give up their power and let Republicans do what they want. Sure, crashing stock markets, soaring unemployment, and worldwide economic depression sounds bad, but for the Christian right, the alternative is fire and brimstone and God unleashing all sorts of hell on the world.

This is a problem that extends beyond just the immediate manufactured crisis. The Christian right has become the primary vehicle in American politics for minimizing the problems of the real world while inventing imaginary problems as distractions. Witness, for instance, the way that fundamentalist Christianity has been harnessed to promote the notion that climate change isn’t a real problem. Average global temperatures are creeping up, but the majority of Christian conservatives are too worried about the supposed existential threats of abortion and gay rights to care.

Under the circumstances, it’s no surprise that it’s easy for Christian conservatives to worry more about imaginary threats from Obamacare than it is for them to worry about the very real threat to worldwide economic stability if the go along with their harebrained scheme of forcing the government into default. To make it worse, many have convinced themselves that it’s their opponents who are deluded. Take right wing Christian Senator Tom Coburn, who celebrated the possibility of default back in January by saying it would be a “wonderful experiment”. Being able to blow past all the advice of experts just to make stuff up you want to believe isn’t a quality that is unique to fundamentalists, but as these budget negotiations are making clear, they do have a uniquely strong ability to lie to themselves about what is and isn’t a real danger to themselves and to the world.

Amanda Marcotte is a Brooklyn-based freelance writer and journalist. She's published two books and blogs regularly at Pandagon, RH Reality Check and Slate's Double X.
Crazy Christian fundies juiced up on self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
How do I afford to buy something that I can't afford? A product that I am being forced to buy? I'd say they are looking out for the working poor. Thanks but no thanks.
 
Republicans with a death-wish are holding US to ransom
With the American government stuck in its second full week of a congressional-compelled shutdown, popular pressure is making even hyper-partisans sweat on Capitol Hill
By John Avlon
5:48PM BST 12 Oct 2013

After 12 days of stalemate, conversations – if not negotiations – have started.

But House Republicans remain deadlocked with the White House, its leadership constrained by their own far-Right-wing caucus, announcing to members in a closed-door session this morning that any deal would have to come from the Senate, where Mitch McConnell, the GOP minority leader, declared: “I’m willing to work with the government we have, not the one I wish we had.” This is a significant concession to reality.

Washington is engaged in a war of attrition – not just between Republicans and Democrats, but an increasingly vicious civil war within the GOP between the Tea Party and what remains of the responsible centre-Right.

The battle lines have been hardened over the past half-decade, as poisonous polarisation turned the idea of political opponents into personal enemies. Ideological divisions inside the Republican Party resulted in a hunt for heretics, with Tea Party senators like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee raising activist cash with infomercials to unseat fellow Republican incumbents, accusing them of being insufficiently conservative and therefore collaborators with President Barack Obama.

Fear over these proposed primary challenges led to a collapse of common sense as Republicans backed into a suicidal government shutdown strategy in an attempt to get President Obama to defund or delay his signature health care reform law. This was always going to be a non-starter because Democrats control the Senate as well as the White House. But Cruz & Co raised millions around this base-pleasing fantasy, without a real strategy for success.

Even a professional hyper-partisan like Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform felt compelled to criticise Mr Cruz, saying: “He pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away.”

And so the shutdown occurred, despite long-standing assurances to the contrary from GOP leadership. The inmates are now running the asylum and leadership looks impotent.

But the stalemate seemed briefly broken thanks to the looming prospect of hitting the debt ceiling on October 17 – the barrier by which the US government needs authorisation to borrow money or default on its debt. Nothing focuses the mind like the prospect of being hung, and the big money boys who fund various Tea Party groups as well as senior senators’ campaign coffers started to make their displeasure known: shut down the government over ObamaCare, sure – collapse the entire US economy, no way.

This financial incentive for strategic change was compounded by an unprecedented descent in the polls. Politics often echo lessons from the past, and pundits have been predicting that Republican House members would lose the shutdown fight, citing the example of the 1995 government shutdown that led to Bill Clinton’s re-election. The latest set of polls – most notably from Gallup and NBC/WSJ – show that Republicans are getting the lion’s share of the blame for the current division and dysfunction.

Seven in 10 Americans now say that the GOP are “putting politics ahead of their country”.
Moreover, polls show the Republican Party has the lowest popular approval rating of any political party in the history of polling.

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ansom.html
 
tonyblair11 said:
How do I afford to buy something that I can't afford? A product that I am being forced to buy? I'd say they are looking out for the working poor. Thanks but no thanks.
Putting aside the possible religious motives and whatever the true story is on the affordability of Obamacare (opinions vary widely), do you really think that the modern Ayn Rand influenced Republican Party is "looking out for the working poor", rather than the huge and deep pocketed lobbies representing the vast private healthcare industry and the collective interests of the corporate and the the ultra-rich, who really appear to be calling the shots in the US these days?

How the Right in the US managed to wrap all that up in a belief that Obamacare is less than a step away from the Mark of the Beast and the Endtimes, would make somebody's doctoral thesis.
 
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