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Male Circumcision

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Anonymous

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"Isn't the circumcised penis more normal? Here is a letter in a major medical journal: "Techniques for performing neonatal circumcision." Am Fam Physician. 1996; 53(8):2440.

To the editor: Over the decades, and particularly in the recent past, perhaps more heat than light has been shed on the issue of neonatal male circumcision. The recent series of letters offers what can only be viewed as confusing interpretations of normalcy. The language used in these letters is revealing: Dr Reynolds opines that his method "removes the foreskin in an anatomically correct fashion." Dr Taylor boasts of a "superior cosmetic result" and "a more natural appearance of a penis without the foreskin." Dr Philgreen describes a "normal appearance." Dr Hopper claims a "nicer looking" outcome.
Clearly these writers are basing their interpretations of "normal" on some construct of aesthetics different from one based on natural, unaltered anatomy. A penis without a foreskin may be seen as "nicer looking" by some persons, but it is in no way natural, and it is hard to think of a situation in which any amputation or surgical scarring can be referred to as "anatomically correct." Male circumcision has supporters and opponents, but no rational discussion of this subject should include such misinterpretation of "normal" or inject personal taste into a scientific debate.
THOMAS W FILARDO, MD
Evendale, Ohio. "
 
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Poor Penis under more attack!

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3069491.stm

bold added for emphasis :eek:

South Africa circumcision deaths

Five traditional surgeons have been arrested by South African police after the deaths of some 20 youths from botched circumcisions in the past few weeks. Another 100 have been injured - some having been severely beaten during the initiation rituals.

The young men in the eastern Cape belong to the Xhosa ethnic group for whom circumcision is considered part of the passage into manhood.

The authorities say the problem stems from the growth of illegal initiation schools.

The BBC's Carolyn Dempster in South Africa says demands are growing for tighter regulations to control initiation practices.

Worries

A law was recently introduced requiring initiation schools to be licensed and only allowing circumcisions to be performed on youths aged 18 and older.

But Eastern Cape provincial Health Department spokesman Sizwe Kupelo told Reuters news agency that boys as young as 11 had died.

Each year thousands of young men go into the bush alone, without water, to attend initiation schools.

Many do not survive the ordeal.

In some cases circumcisions are performed with blunt, unsterilised knives, and there are severe punishment beatings for forgetting parts of rituals.

The operations are performed in the winter when South African schools are on holiday
 
Father arrested; son in hospital

Sunday, September 5, 2004
KELLY ADAMS and JOHN BRANTON Columbian staff writers

A Ridgefield man was arrested on suspicion of first-degree assault of a child after he allegedly attempted to circumcise his 8-year-old son.

Clark County sheriff's Sgt. Tony Barnes said the man, whose name is being withheld to protect the victim's privacy, claimed reading the Bible led him to try to circumcise his child Friday night.

The man, believed to be in his 30s, took the boy into the bathroom and used a hunting knife for the procedure, Barnes said.

"When he couldn't stop the bleeding, he called 911," Barnes said.

Firefighters arrived to begin treatment while deputies took the man into custody. He remained in the Clark County Jail on Saturday night.

The child was taken to Southwest Washington Medical Center, where he received several stitches. Barnes said the case will be referred to Child Protective Services. CPS has been the family's home before to check on the nine children living there.

The victim's mother was home at the time of the assault, Barnes said, but it was not clear if she knew what the father was doing. She rode with the boy to the hospital.

"Just when you think you've seen everything," said Barnes, a 20-year law enforcement veteran. "This is just bizarre."

http://www.columbian.com/09052004/clark_co/185734.html

The Bible eh? pehraps we should try and get it banned? ;)
 
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Nope you aren't wrong allow me to offer:

:wtf:

------------
Circumcision Attempt - Father sentenced to three years

Thursday, December 16, 2004
By STEPHANIE RICE, Columbian staff writer

Ridgefield father Edwin B. Baxter asked God for mercy and a judge for understanding Wednesday as he faced sentencing for an attempted circumcision on his 8-year-old.

Baxter said he was inspired to cut his son after reading Scripture and first consulted his wife.

"It never has been my desire or intent to violate any laws," Baxter, 33, told Superior Court Judge James Rulli.

"I pray God will have mercy on me," Baxter said, choked up. He then put his head down on the table where he sat with his attorney.

"Mr. Baxter, you must realize, as we all must realize, that there are consequences for our actions," said Rulli, before sentencing Baxter to three years in prison.

Baxter likely will appeal on the grounds that Rulli did not let him use his Christian fundamentalist faith as a defense, but Rulli cast doubt that argument will fly.

"The court has steadfastly held that you can't jeopardize the health and safety of your family because of your religious beliefs," Rulli said.

Baxter and his 30-year-old wife have nine children in their two-bedroom home. His wife, Tammy, is pregnant and due in February.

On Sept. 3, Baxter called his son into the bathroom and had him lay in what witnesses described as a dirty bathtub. Baxter used a hunting knife to slice into his son's foreskin. He called 911 when his son began bleeding profusely.

Rulli said Baxter inflicted not only physical damage to his son, who received stitches, but probably also psychological damage.

On Dec. 7, a jury convicted Baxter of assault of a child in the second degree.

Before his trial, he rejected a plea deal that would have given him credit for the days he's spent in the Clark County Jail and had him released.

According to state sentencing guidelines, Baxter faced between two years, seven months and three years, five months in prison. Rulli had no choice but to sentence him within that range.

Rulli received letters from Baxter's friends who described Baxter as a thoughtful, honest person who "sometimes … wrongly interpreted passages in the Bible."

Senior Deputy Prosecutor Kim Farr said while Baxter may be a loving father who did not intend to harm his son, the attempted circumcision nevertheless was a criminal offense.

Defense attorney Tony Lowe asked Rulli to set an appeal bond so Baxter could be released pending appeal and earn money for his family. Baxter's employer, the owner of Helser Bros. Transfer Co. in Portland, wrote a letter to Rulli.

"Edwin is not a criminal," James Helser wrote. "He is guilty of using some extremely poor judgment and taking an action which he naively saw as a form of devotion and consecration to God. Edwin has already stated he has learned his lesson and would never again consider such a radical action. What he needs is some outpatient counseling, not incarceration."

Rulli denied the request for the appeal bond, meaning Baxter will be sent to prison.

Prior to his trial, Baxter was evaluated by a psychologist who concluded Baxter was competent to stand trial.

The doctor noted Baxter did have "religious fervor that suggested mild delusional thinking," Lowe said.

Lowe said Baxter would have had a doctor perform the circumcision but did not have the money.

"It was sheer poverty that led him to do it himself," Lowe said.

Baxter's father said his daughter-in-law and grandchildren are back in their Ridgefield home. After the incident, law enforcement and investigators from the state Department of Children and Family Services tried without success to find the family. Baxter's father, Bruce, said his daughter-in-law has not, as a prosecutor said earlier, given birth in a van outside the family's property. He said four children have been born in a hospital, four were born in a house and one was born in a van that was en route to a hospital.

He said the family has lived in Clark County for four or five years.

Farr said the family came to Clark County from Idaho after they were contacted by child welfare authorities.

Stephanie Rice covers the courts. She can be reached at 360-759-8004 or [email protected]..



Update

Previously: Edwin Baxter was arrested for attempting to circumcise his 8-year-old.

What's new: Baxter was sentenced Wednesday to three years in prison.

What's next: He will appeal his conviction of second-degree assault of a child.

Source
 
Engrossed as ever in Bible History, I came across the word epispasm - a painful operation to reverse circumcision - practised by Hellenistic Jews who wished to flaunt their manhood in the gym. The book I had - John Romer's Testament - was tastefully vague about what it entailed, so I had to look it up. This webpage lacks no detail:

http://www.cirp.org/library/restoration/hall1/

:shock:
 
March 24, 2005

Lawsuit claims circumcision botched


(Stamford-AP, Mar. 23, 2005 1:35 PM) _ A lawsuit has been filed against a Bridgeport doctor, claiming he botched a circumcision and partially amputated a nine-month-old boy's penis.

The suit seeks unspecified damages from Dr. Daniel Gottschall, who performed the surgery last June at Saint Vincent's Hospital. The lawsuit against names his medical and surgical group, Alliance for Women's Health.

Immediately after his injury, the boy was transferred to Yale-New Haven Hospital for surgical repair of his condition.

Telephone messages have been left for Gottschall and hospital officials.

The suit alleges the boy's injuries were caused by Gottschall's failure to exercise the proper care and skill employed by physicians specializing in the procedure.

Source
 
Circumcision season claims another life

July 04 2005 at 07:18PM

The number of fatalities during this year's winter circumcision season in the Eastern Cape has risen to nine after the death of a youth at Libode in the Transkei, the Eastern Cape health department said on Monday.

"Doctors have also partially amputated the penises of two boys at the Nelson Mandela general hospital in Mthatha, while the future of three boys were still unsure.

"If they do not respond to gangrene treatment soon, they would also get surgery," said provincial health spokesperson Sizwe Kupelo.

Kupelo said health authorities on Monday closed three more illegal circumcision schools in the Zandukwala area near Libode after the closure of two schools over the weekend.

"A helicopter was used over the weekend to find illegal schools and rescue initiates," he said.

Fourteen youths were admitted to the Lessie Night Hospital at Qumbu while 14 more were admitted to the St Barnabas Hospital in Libode over the weekend.

The health department has closed 31 illegal schools so far this season.

According to the department a traditional surgeon linked to botched circumcisions would also appear in court on Tuesday facing a charge of murder and running an unlawful circumcision school.

Kupelo said the same doctor was arrested last year for botched circumcisions and received a three year suspended sentence. He is one of fifteen traditional surgeons arrested this season for botched circumcisions in the Eastern Cape.

One of them allegedly circumcised 28 boys with one unsterilised knife. - Sapa

Source
 
A rash of horrid tales about deaths in illegal circumcision schools in South Africa. Here

Another death from circumcision initiation

Johannesburg, South Africa
23 June 2006 04:53

A 16-year-old initiate died in Libode on Friday, bringing to three the number of deaths from illegal circumcisions since the start of the initiation season last week, the Eastern Cape department of health said.

"He died in the bush at an illegal initiation school," said spokesperson Sizwe Kupelo.

He said health officials and the police had so far arrested five traditional surgeons.

They would be charged with contravening the Traditional Circumcision Act, which regulates the custom in the Eastern Cape.

Three surgeons or more were still at large.

"At least 46 boys have been rescued from illegal initiation schools in the Transkei. They were as young as 13 years of age," said Kupelo.

On Thursday, 30 initiates were rescued from an illegal initiation school in Qumbu.

All underage schoolboys from the Zilandana village, they all had gangrene and septic cuts from circumcisions.

Their initiation school was demolished.

Another 19 initiates were rescued elsewhere after unauthorised circumcisions.

Kupelo said the health department had placed 400 officials on standby to monitor the initiation season.

They would be travelling around the Transkei and acting on tip-offs from the community. -- Sapa

Initiate in court over murder of traditional surgeon

Johannesburg, South Africa
05 July 2006 02:14

An Eastern Cape initiate was to appear in the Port Elizabeth Magistrate's Court on Wednesday after allegedly killing a traditional surgeon with a spade.

Spokesperson Captain Ernest Sigobe said the 22-year-old initiate was apparently unhappy with the way in which he had been circumcised. "He complained that the traditional surgeon had wrongly circumcised him, but did not say what exactly he did wrong."

Sigobe said he invited the surgeon, 58, from Zinyoka location in Port Elizabeth, to visit him in Sherwood location on Monday night.

"While they were walking on Buffalo Street, he repeatedly struck him with the sharp edge of the spade all over his body," said Sigobe.

The man died on the scene. Police did not know where the accused got the spade.

The Eastern Cape health department said the initiate had preferred another surgeon to the one he allegedly killed. "He allegedly wanted someone else to perform the surgery," said spokesperson Sizwe Kupelo.

A murder case was opened with Port Elizabeth police, and the man was arrested two hours after the incident, Sigobe said. The spade he used was confiscated and will be used as evidence in court.

The attacker went to an initiation school in the area in May and the process was finished at the end of June.

More deaths
Last week, another youth died at an illegal initiation school and two were taken to hospital in critical conditions -- one from a registered facility, Kupelo said. The death was the eighth since the start of the initiation season.

The 17-year-old boy's body was found last Wednesday at an initiation school at Sbangweni village in Libode. Another initiate was taken to the Cecilia Makiwane hospital in East London in a critical condition with gangrene of his private parts. "There were also signs that he was severely beaten up," said Kupelo.

Police are investigating charges of assault, running an illegal initiation school and illegally conducting circumcisions. No one has been arrested yet, but at least four traditional surgeons are sought in the Transkei.

Initiates often die of infection, gangrene or sepsis. The boys stand in a queue to be circumcised, stealing chickens from villages to pay the surgeons. "Our worry is that apart from dying, there is a high possibility that the boys would end up contracting HIV," said Kupelo.

The second initiate was found in a critical condition at a registered school, he said. Two nurses at the school have been arrested for negligence. "They are obliged to take action if they find initiates are not in good health."

Kupelo said the arrests were made in raids by the police and departmental officials on a number of illegal and registered initiation schools in Mdantsane. More raids were planned in the Transkei -- in the area of at least two of the deaths -- in conjunction with the House of Traditional leaders. -- Sapa

Cape Town, South Africa

27 June 2006 09:31

Another circumcision initiate has died in the town of Port Shepstone, bringing death toll to seven in two weeks since the start of the mid-year initiation season, the Eastern Cape health department said on Tuesday.

Spokesperson Sizwe Kupelo said the boy died on Monday due to complications following a botched circumcision. Another boy, from Ngqeleni near Mthatha, faces possible amputation.

"These boys are dying but are not supposed to die," said Kupelo, urging the community not to wait until the eleventh hour before reporting suspicious practices.

He said seven illegal surgeons have been arrested. Two were released due to a technicality, but could possibly be recharged.

One of the two was being sought in connection with the death of the Port Shepstone boy, said Kupelo. - Sapa
:(
 
More South African todger terror:

Bogus surgeon cuts off part of penis

July 04, 2006, 16:30

Eastern Cape health authorities have arrested another bogus traditional healer in Libode, bringing the number of charlatan surgeons arrested to 17. They face a variety of charges, including murder and unlawful circumcision, said Sizwe Kupelo, a health spokesman. He said one initiate lost the front part - not the foreskin - of his penis.

The victim was admitted to St Barnabas hospital. "Three of his co-initiates were taken to theatre and re-circumcised." Another 25 initiates have been admitted to Mthatha hospital complex with circumcision-related complications.

The number of initiates who have died since the start of the winter circumcision season has risen to 15. - Sapa

www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/crime1jus ... 60,00.html
 
I've only just noticed this unfortunate line in one of the reports I posted above:

"They would be travelling around the Transkei and acting on tip-offs from the community" :shock: [/b]
 
Mighty_Emperor said:
More South African todger terror:

Bogus surgeon cuts off part of penis

July 04, 2006, 16:30

Eastern Cape health authorities have arrested another bogus traditional healer in Libode, bringing the number of charlatan surgeons arrested to 17. They face a variety of charges, including murder and unlawful circumcision, said Sizwe Kupelo, a health spokesman. He said one initiate lost the front part - not the foreskin - of his penis.

The victim was admitted to St Barnabas hospital. "Three of his co-initiates were taken to theatre and re-circumcised." Another 25 initiates have been admitted to Mthatha hospital complex with circumcision-related complications.

The number of initiates who have died since the start of the winter circumcision season has risen to 15. - Sapa

www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/crime1jus ... 60,00.html

Circumcision season! :shock:
 
7-DAY-OLD KILLED BY CIRCUMCISION
Exclusive by Stephen Moyes 15/02/2007

DETECTIVES are investigating the death of a seven-day-old baby after he was circumcised.

Stunned relatives at the Jewish ceremony saw the toddler experience breathing difficulties.

He was taken to hospital but died eight days later. A post mortem found the infant died from cardiac arrest and oxygen starvation.

Police are to interview family members and the senior rabbi who performed the operation at Golders Green Synagogue in North London. Concerns raised by doctors treating the baby have led to the probe being led by Scotland Yard's child abuse investigators.

Police and Home Office sources said the investigation was "highly unusual".

A Scotland Yard spokesman stated: "The death is being treated as unexplained at this early stage."

The baby died two weeks ago at University College Hospital, Central London.

Circumcision of boys is an operation in which the foreskin is removed from the penis. With small babies, local anaesthetic is often sufficient and avoids the risks of a general anaesthetic.

Some people believe the skin is redundant and gets in the way of hygiene.

Others say it is a vital part of the male anatomy and should not be removed.

Judaism considers circumcision to be an important ritual. The operation is usually performed by a mohel - a specialist in the procedure and its rituals.

Many British mohels are doctors, rabbis or both. All have received appropriate medical and religious training.

A spokesman for The United Synagogue, a membership of 35 orthodox synagogues in Greater London, said: "We are awaiting the results of the police enquiry and until then it would not be appropriate for us to comment further."
http://tinyurl.com/37fsxj
 
MODS! Couldn't decide if this one was "Human Condition" or just "Chat", so I stuck it in "Chat".

This seems so obvious to me, but I'll try putting it down in words anyway:

Imagine there are two guys, Mr Smith and Mr Jones. Each week, each of these men goes out of his way to find a small child and cut the end of its penis off. Horrid, I know, but bear with me, it's just imaginary...

Mr Smith gets caught doing this and says, "Well, I just enjoy mutilating small children. It's how I get my jollys!" People are repulsed and disgusted, and depending on the exact circumstances, they stick Mr Smith in a jail to punish him for being so wicked or they put him in some sort of secure hospital, as he clearly constitutes a danger to other people.

Mr Jones gets caught doing exactly the same thing, and he says, "Oh, it's ok, God told me to do it! Look, someone wrote it down in a book and everything. And look... here are the kid's parents! They're going to watch, and then we're going to have a party!" People say, "Oh, ok. That's fine!"

It can't be just me who thinks that's completely messed up, can it? How do we walk around with clear conscience and happy thoughts each day knowing that things like that are actualy happening, not just in some tribe sat around in mud-huts, not just insome far-flung part of the world, but here, in our supposedly "civilised" country?

I would be disgusted if someone allowed a ten year old to get a tattoo. I would seriously question their parenting skills and their fitness to look after children. Yet people walk this earth who think it's ok to take a child who can't even speak yet and mutilate it, permanently deform it, in the name of some "loving" cosmic bogeyman.

Post Script. In case anyone thinks I'm being specifically anti-semetic (which I'm not) as opposed to being generally anti-religious (which I am) by picking the practice of genital mutilation, which in the colective consciousness is associated with the Jewish faith, feel free to replace it with any other act you wouldn't accept from a non-religious person. E.g., taking your fifteen year old daughter out of education to fly her to another country to meet the guy you've decided she'll be marrying. I'm sure we can all think of some wonderfully multi-cultual examples. The point remains the same. Religions (all religions) are being used as the justification for the mistreatment of the young. If we argue that people should be free to practice these outmoded, wrong-headed faiths, we are complicit in this mistreatment.
 
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?
 
CodenameThrow said:
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?

This happened to my eldest nephew at the age of 11 or 12. I advised my sister not to go through with it as it was (a) not really essential, and (b) because it might cause the poor boy some psychological damage.
But my sister went through with it, because she pointedly ignores all of my advice.

I think my nephew is still a bit upset by it today (10 years on), because he won't talk about it.

I think my stance is that it should only ever be done if it is really necessary...
 
Mythopoeika said:
CodenameThrow said:
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?

This happened to my eldest nephew at the age of 11 or 12. I advised my sister not to go through with it as it was (a) not really essential, and (b) because it might cause the poor boy some psychological damage.
But my sister went through with it, because she pointedly ignores all of my advice.

I think my nephew is still a bit upset by it today (10 years on), because he won't talk about it.

I think my stance is that it should only ever be done if it is really necessary...

although how many people WOULD talk about it, even if they were very happy with it? "Let me tell you all about my unadorned glans. No knob cheese for me, no sir." *sound of teacup being dropped*
 
CodenameThrow said:
Mythopoeika said:
CodenameThrow said:
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?

This happened to my eldest nephew at the age of 11 or 12. I advised my sister not to go through with it as it was (a) not really essential, and (b) because it might cause the poor boy some psychological damage.
But my sister went through with it, because she pointedly ignores all of my advice.

I think my nephew is still a bit upset by it today (10 years on), because he won't talk about it.

I think my stance is that it should only ever be done if it is really necessary...

although how many people WOULD talk about it, even if they were very happy with it? "Let me tell you all about my unadorned glans. No knob cheese for me, no sir." *sound of teacup being dropped*

Well, that's true... :lol:
 
At the risk of appearing flippant, I'd like to point out that here in the UK we're not allowed to treat animals like this.

While I don't think circumcision of dogs has ever been an issue, they no longer have ears or tails docked. Cats may not be declawed and horses' tails are not docked and 'nicked' (as described by Anna Sewell in 'Black Beauty'.)

S'true that many animals are castrated/spayed, of course.
 
escargot1 said:
At the risk of appearing flippant, I'd like to point out that here in the UK we're not allowed to treat animals like this.

Yup, it's interesting to note that the RSPCA was founded in 1824, and yet the NSPCC didn't get started until 1884..i guess people were too busy wiping soot off of pigeons' beaks to worry about child welfare.
 
A Jewish guy I know (by his own admission 'non-practising') took his newborn baby boy off the be circumcised, because it was 'tradition'. When I diplomatically questioned this, he looked at me angrily and said "well YOU celebrate Christmas, don't you?

:wtf:
 
:shock:


So, how DO you celebrate xmas? :lol:
 
I enjoy a good sing-song, a nice traditional carol which the peel of a bell ends. Can't see how cirumcision can be compared with this.
 
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?

Very common in the US I believe.
 
Tread soft, for you tread upon people's most deeply held beliefs and customs.

A Bris, or Brit Millah is a very big event in a Jewish family's life, a feest, like Bar Mitzvahs, 13 years later. It is part of a Jewish chap's covenant with God and a sign of the child being formally accepted into society.

Christians get away with a Christening.

Still, there seem to be quite a few Jewish organisations questioning the tradition:

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
http://jewishcircumcision.org/
 
If you teach your child to wash their bits properly they don't have to have anything cut off. It's a bit lazy me thinks.
What's even worse is female circumcision, that's just the most horrible mutilation anyone could do to a child/ young woman. And there are no excuses like "hygene" etc, its just men thinking women will cheat if they don't have it done. talk about extremely low self esteem.
:evil:
 
Quake42 said:
Out of interest, how do you feel about the numerous families who take their baby sons to be circumcised outside of any religious requirements - for reasons of health and hygiene?

Very common in the US I believe.

Less common than it was in the land of litigation and there are thousands of pages on the web rehearsing the arguments for and against. The origins of the practice in the US have been studied in exhaustive and sometimes lurid detail but "follow the money" is never a bad route to the truth: the little snip was a nice little earner for doctors. We can also follow the money here in an eye-opening piece about the afterlife of the excised portion. Truly, in some cases, the family threw the most valuable bit away!

Full article here

" . . . into these tubs, the workers add skin cells harvested from the foreskins of circumcised newborns ... The two companies are independently seeking approval: Organogenesis Inc. of Canton, Mass and Advanced Tissue Sciences Inc. of La Jolla, Calif ... each starts with a baby's foreskin, a consistent, readily available source. Plus young skin grows better. One piece of foreskin can produce four acres of engineered skin with a five-day shelf life."

Because of the growing choice movement in the States, routine circumcision for non-religious reasons may be well past its peak. Tackling the religious practice at a time when tribalism is ever more obvious? An altogether more dubious battle.

The more vampiric aspects of Orthodox Jewish circumcision may be in retreat because of health concerns - a tube is now recommended in place of the mouth to suck the blood from the wound. As the OP notes, anyone subjecting babies to the same thing for any selfish satisfaction other than their religious otherness would be locked up.

I remember learning of the subject as a very young child and wondering why such things were allowed to happen. With age come more and more shrugs, "such things happen. Get used to it!" It would take a determined secularist stand by a government to turn the mild reservations now displayed by the medical profession into a positive statement of children's rights not to be mutilated. Not on the horizon here at all then!

While the Jews always come to mind first, they are a tiny population in the UK and the ritual is performed at eight days. The majority of male circumcisions in the UK are performed by Muslims at any time from one week old well into adolescence. There are cases where the chidren of a previous marriage have been subjected to circumcision as adolescents because of the mother's change of faith. The BMA has strong reservations about the status of the child's consent in these cases.

Here is a tug-of-foreskin case from the States with a 12-year-old Jewish boy as its focus

We should also, perhaps, note the growth of a cult of regrowing the lost foreskin by men who feel bereaved of it. Not that the idea is entirely new, Hellenized Jews put themselves through a painful operation called epispasm to appear intact at the baths! :err:
 
JamesWhitehead said:
The more vampiric aspects of Orthodox Jewish circumcision may be in retreat because of health concerns - a tube is now recommended in place of the mouth to suck the blood from the wound. As the OP notes, anyone subjecting babies to the same thing for any selfish satisfaction other than their religious otherness would be locked up.

They suck the wound on the baby's penis with their mouths????????!!!!! :shock:

Whoa, glad I'm not Jewish.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Whoa, glad I'm not Jewish.
..or Muslim.
Muslim perspective

Male circumcision existed before the birth of the Prophet Mohammed and this custom is religously practised by Muslims as a precedent of the Prophet, which is called the SUNNAH. In the index of an authentic English translation of the Holy Quaraan, with Arabic script, circumcision was not listed. However, every Muslim is expected to follow the way of life of Prophet Mohammed (be peace upon him). Therefore, all Muslims - devouts, liberals or seculars - observe this ritual. Muslims are obliged to follow not only Allah's message in the Holy Quaraan but also what the Prophet said or did, as a proof of their dedication to Islam.

http://www.familymedicine.co.uk/features/circum3.htm
 
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