• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

"Meeting Nicola"

Personally, I'm not all that comfortable with Frank's version of events - especially in light of what his narrative can be interpreted to indicate about him.

He was a young man chatting up an attractive young lady he chanced to see along the river. His description of her and his interactions with her are pretty shallow and one-dimensional.

I differ in parts, agree in others.

Fair play to Frank for trying to chat her up.
Some men would have bottled it.

But her reaction to the solstice question does suggest of her cumulatively getting irritated but keeping calm prior to this, then being able to no longer contain her irritation.
 
I differ in parts, agree in others.

Fair play to Frank for trying to chat her up.
Some men would have bottled it.

But her reaction to the solstice question does suggest of her cumulatively getting irritated but keeping calm prior to this, then being able to no longer contain her irritation.
I think with Frank he is very sociably type of person, so striking up conversations wouldn't be out of the ordinary for him. The thing is, she wasn't showing any kind of concern or even any irritation to anything he was saying, it all changed on that one question. The only way this event makes sense is if (like others on this thread have done) is change what happened to force fit it into a plausible narrative (I have done this myself, frank said that is what he as tried to do also, but he can't change what he witnessed. No one can tell what some-one is really thinking , true, but he is adamant that she really was relaxed and talking freely (if limited) to him up to then. Like I've said before, if anyone knows of any Streatham local message groups (A long shot I know) but Nicola was quite striking, so wonder if anyone on their might remember a Nicola (Fitting the description, age, and the drawing) who lived around there in the early 80's. The biggest thing for me to explain and come to terms with is the biker, there was no where he could have come from (and then totally vanish) .
 
... The thing is, she wasn't showing any kind of concern or even any irritation to anything he was saying, it all changed on that one question. The only way this event makes sense is if (like others on this thread have done) is change what happened to force fit it into a plausible narrative (I have done this myself, frank said that is what he as tried to do also, but he can't change what he witnessed. No one can tell what some-one is really thinking , true, but he is adamant that she really was relaxed and talking freely (if limited) to him up to then. ...

There's an important factor in all this that's being overlooked or blurred ... It's clear there was a course of conversation leading up to Frank's asking the solstice question, and at face value it was the solstice question that set her off. However ...

The extent to which her reaction to the solstice question was notably extraordinary cannot be evaluated without knowing to what extent that question (or perhaps its topic) represented a shift or turn in whatever the conversation had been up to that point. Had Frank challenged her on subject matter knowledge up to that point? Had he addressed any direct inquiry to her on any subject up to that point? Did posing a question on a seemingly random topic come across as dismissively changing whatever the subject had been?

In other words, there's an ostensibly plausible narrative already embedded in the way you describe the incident and Frank's recollection of it - i.e., a vague tacit assumption that the solstice question (or perhaps even just posing a direct question of any kind) fit smoothly into the flow of whatever their conversation had been and shouldn't / couldn't have justified her anger.

Nicola's sudden change in demeanor wasn't spontaneous on her part - it was a direct response to the solstice question. At face value it was Frank who triggered this response, but you and Frank seem determined to project the unexpected nature of Nicola's response entirely onto her. Much of the apparent mystery in her reaction arises from framing her as acting with sole regard to the solstice question. The more relevant mystery may well be whether or how the solstice question fit into or conflicted with the broader conversational context.

Another issue ... Frank admitted he'd asked this random question after getting a disturbing sensation about the scenario / situation and feeling at a loss for his next move. Who's to say Nicola wasn't equally subject to whatever influence put Frank on edge like that? And who's to say her reaction wasn't simply her personal approach to handling unexpected unease just as Frank admittedly had done in asking his random quiz question?
 
I, apparently, have a face that looks worried and slightly scared when I'm concentrating hard.
Yes me too. Usual response to my look is "what's the matter?". Which does make me irritated, particularly if it breaks my concentration. Someone's facial expression sometimes isn't interpreted correctly. Nichole may have been worried about another issue entirely (apart from being alone with a strange bloke down a lane) and the solstice thing may simply have been a sudden irritating distraction.

All in all though, a fascinating experience and one which, to all intents and purposes, is unsolvable.

I
 
Last edited:
The thing is, she wasn't showing any kind of concern or even any irritation to anything he was saying, it all changed on that one question. The only way this event makes sense is if (like others on this thread have done) is change what happened to force fit it into a plausible narrative (I have done this myself, frank said that is what he as tried to do also, but he can't change what he witnessed. No one can tell what some-one is really thinking , true, but he is adamant that she really was relaxed and talking freely (if limited) to him up to then.
I don't think anyone had tried to force fit anything. As already explained by several people, there is nothing strange about Nicola's behaviour given the position she was in. The only strange thing is her seemingly sudden appearance and the bikers appearance.

Here is why, with all due respect to Frank, I have doubts as to his observational skills on that day. He does give an excellent description of where he and then they walked. Following back from the bridge and the slipway he described to where he saw Nicola, and then going to where she vanished on the map you posted, there is no way it could have taken half an hour to get there. Especially if she was "striding confidently". (Was she striding confidently or hurrying towards her biker friend as quickly as possible?) Maybe 10 minutes at most. Also, in whatever time it took, he had somehow failed to notice this large and menacing dog was not with them. The part with the solstice question was the exact spot the biker was -both were distracted at this point and he described the spot as being dark and tree lined.

As to how they got away without Frank hearing the bike - well that is harder to guess but some very large bikes are extremely quiet due to the powerful engine. Why else would she have asked Frank to walk on unless to try and slip away quietly without the chance of him running after them?

edit - I don't rule out anything strange, I am a Fortean after all but am just pointing out why it may not be strange after all.
 
... Why else would she have asked Frank to walk on unless to try and slip away quietly without the chance of him running after them? ...

One detail eludes me (or more accurately one gap in the narrative bugs me ...), and it might be very informative ...

According to the account in the original post Frank walked on for circa 20 yards, to where the path turned near a tree. He looked back once before stopping behind(?) the tree. After a short pause behind the tree (or somehow out of a line of sight back to the woman and biker) he looked back to see they'd disappeared.

What did Frank see when he looked back that one time while walking to the bend in the path and the tree? According to the story line this preceded the disappearing act. This suggests Frank should have seen the woman and the biker on the path. What were they doing?
 
One detail eludes me (or more accurately one gap in the narrative bugs me ...), and it might be very informative ...

According to the account in the original post Frank walked on for circa 20 yards, to where the path turned near a tree. He looked back once before stopping behind(?) the tree. After a short pause behind the tree (or somehow out of a line of sight back to the woman and biker) he looked back to see they'd disappeared.

What did Frank see when he looked back that one time while walking to the bend in the path and the tree? According to the story line this preceded the disappearing act. This suggests Frank should have seen the woman and the biker on the path. What were they doing?
Yes I wondered that too and was going to ask but got distracted by the time!
 
The biggest thing for me to explain and come to terms with is the biker, there was no where he could have come from (and then totally vanish) .
The whole strange experience was sort of ringing bells with me and, bearing in mind Frank has been in a lot of fights and may have experienced a head injury, I looked up "petit mal seizure".

A seizure may be prefaced with a "warning aura" which may involve:-
  • a general strange feeling that's hard to describe
  • a "rising" feeling in your tummy – like the sensation in your stomach when on a fairground ride
  • an intense feeling of fear or joy
You remain awake and aware while this happens.
Sound a bit familiar?

Furthermore:-
These seizures are sometimes known as "warnings" or "auras" because they can be a sign that another type of seizure is about to happen.

This other type I was thinking of (petit mal) is:-
An absence seizure, which used to be called a "petit mal", is where you lose awareness of your surroundings for a short time. They mainly affect children, but can happen at any age.

---
The seizures usually only last up to 15 seconds and you will not be able to remember them. They can happen several times a day.

15 seconds is more than enough time for someone to ride away on a motorbike.

Source https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/epilepsy/symptoms/

Please don't be too concerned about this - it doesn't mean Frank has or had epilepsy as it is commonly understood. This was probably only a temporary thing.

If this is what happened though, it does mean Frank is not crazy or was inches away from being murdered which I hope is of some comfort to him!:)
 
Maybe Nicola saw and heard the motorcyclist's approach, realised it was her boyfriend and here she was talking to another man. So she suddenly pretended to be angry with Frank and went off with boyfriend. Frank's non seeing and hearing of the bike could be attributed to his attention being solely on the girl at first (the bike may have approached quietly or even have been there waiting all along). The mystery is where they went to after that and without knowing the terrain, they could have slipped off under cover somewhere (particularly if he was about to give her a slap about 'talking to other men').

I'd be quite worried for Nicola, rather than about her.
 
Thanks to Damien for posting this fascinating tale, accounts such as these are the reason I come onto this board.

Personally, I always appreciate the efforts of other posters to rationalise the experience, that is what being a Fortean is all about. However, we need to remember this took place almost 40 years ago, and as I was teenager at that time I can vouch for people being more trustful of strangers than they are now. Hitchhiking was commonplace, I rarely ever see hitchhikers now. Children of all ages used to go down to the park or the local woods with their friends to play without adult supervision, something else you are unlikely to see nowadays. As teenagers out for a country walk, we would knock on a stranger's door and ask for a glass of water. In the intervening years, we have as a nation become a lot more protective of our children and teenagers, most probably due to the media promoting the idea of there being a paedophile or rapist on every street corner. This in turn has changed the way young adults interact, too. Therefore, I feel we need to view this experience through a 1980's lens and not a 2021 'Me Too' lens.

It would be interesting to learn more about the reports of male deaths in the area mentioned at the start of the thread.
 
Last edited:
Thanks to Damien for posting this fascinating tale, accounts such as these are the reason I come onto this board.
Seconded!
Personally, I always appreciate the efforts of other posters to rationalise the experience, that is what being a Fortean is all about. However, we need to remember this took place almost 40 years ago, and as I was teenager at that time I can vouch for people being more trustful of strangers than they are now.
Were you a teenage girl though?
Therefore, I feel we need to view this experience through a 1980's lens and not a 2021 'Me Too' lens..
I have been viewing this through the lens of having been a teenage girl partly in the 80s and not through a 2021 "me too" lens. And it just doesn't seem possible that she could have reached the age of 18 without having learned to be distrustful of men. "Me too" didn't come out of thin air, it came out of lifetimes of the dismissal of sexual harrassment of women.
 
Not Fortean but I have had a few times in the past when I good looking female has struck up a conversation with me yet I never followed it up by asking for there phone number or to meet for a drink etc ?
 
Not Fortean but I have had a few times in the past when I good looking female has struck up a conversation with me yet I never followed it up by asking for there phone number or to meet for a drink etc ?
Women are allowed to talk to men. Men are allowed to talk to women. It happens. The 'attractiveness' or otherwise of either party shouldn't really come into it...
 
Women are allowed to talk to men. Men are allowed to talk to women. It happens. The 'attractiveness' or otherwise of either party shouldn't really come into it...
Well yes and no as I was single at those times and would of asked them out or something as that's me ( sometimes) .
 
Women are allowed to talk to men. Men are allowed to talk to women. It happens. The 'attractiveness' or otherwise of either party shouldn't really come into it...
Yes I am not sure what that post has to do with anything!

I said above that it doesn't seem possible that Nicola could not know to be distrustful of strangers but of course anything is possible I suppose. No-one can know what was going through her head but the dismissal of the possibility that she might have been scared, either all along or when the motorbike guy appeared is just plain wrong. Frank himself found her apparent lack of fear odd although I have already pointed out its use as a survival strategy.

Anyway, my point is that whatever she was thinking, there was nothing strange about her behaviour. Really. I really feel it is a red herring.

The only strange thing is Frank's weird/scared feeling and the couple vanishing. I would be interested to hear Frank's opinion on my possible explanation above.
 
Seconded!
Were you a teenage girl though?
I have been viewing this through the lens of having been a teenage girl partly in the 80s and not through a 2021 "me too" lens. And it just doesn't seem possible that she could have reached the age of 18 without having learned to be distrustful of men. "Me too" didn't come out of thin air, it came out of lifetimes of the dismissal of sexual harrassment of women.

I respect your stance on this, and no, I wasn't a teenage girl...!

However, if you google 'I met my partner whilst walking the dog" you will get plenty of real-life examples of women meeting their future partners whilst doing just that, as it's commonly recognised that a dog provides a way of breaking the ice between strangers. So whilst I accept your reservations, I do feel there might perhaps have been some initial attraction between the two of them...?

But of course all of this ignores the paranormal angle of her sudden appearance and disappearance and the spooky connection between the large menacing black dog and the large menacing black biker....
 
One of my granddads was from Streatham, the other was called Frank. Just sayin'.
 
I respect your stance on this, and no, I wasn't a teenage girl...!

However, if you google 'I met my partner whilst walking the dog" you will get plenty of real-life examples of women meeting their future partners whilst doing just that, as it's commonly recognised that a dog provides a way of breaking the ice between strangers. So whilst I accept your reservations, I do feel there might perhaps have been some initial attraction between the two of them...?

But of course all of this ignores the paranormal angle of her sudden appearance and disappearance and the spooky connection between the large menacing black dog and the large menacing black biker....
I have never met a future partner whilst out walking the dog. But then I'm not 'attractive'...

The dog was described as 'menacing' whilst doing nothing more than swimming in the river. So Frank's perception may have been warped by his further reflections on the scene.
 
I respect your stance on this, and no, I wasn't a teenage girl...!

However, if you google 'I met my partner whilst walking the dog" you will get plenty of real-life examples of women meeting their future partners whilst doing just that, as it's commonly recognised that a dog provides a way of breaking the ice between strangers. So whilst I accept your reservations, I do feel there might perhaps have been some initial attraction between the two of them...?
It is possible of course but I don't want to get too bogged down in this because..
But of course all of this ignores the paranormal angle of her sudden appearance and disappearance and the spooky connection between the large menacing black dog and the large menacing black biker....
Yes, this bit!
 
One detail eludes me (or more accurately one gap in the narrative bugs me ...), and it might be very informative ...

According to the account in the original post Frank walked on for circa 20 yards, to where the path turned near a tree. He looked back once before stopping behind(?) the tree. After a short pause behind the tree (or somehow out of a line of sight back to the woman and biker) he looked back to see they'd disappeared.

What did Frank see when he looked back that one time while walking to the bend in the path and the tree? According to the story line this preceded the disappearing act. This suggests Frank should have seen the woman and the biker on the path. What were they doing?
I asked frank the same question about what he saw, he said , the guy hadnt moved he just stood there in the same place and nicola was talking to him , what is interesting is he said he couldn't hear her talking (like she was speaking quietly).
 
I don't think anyone had tried to force fit anything. As already explained by several people, there is nothing strange about Nicola's behaviour given the position she was in. The only strange thing is her seemingly sudden appearance and the bikers appearance.

Here is why, with all due respect to Frank, I have doubts as to his observational skills on that day. He does give an excellent description of where he and then they walked. Following back from the bridge and the slipway he described to where he saw Nicola, and then going to where she vanished on the map you posted, there is no way it could have taken half an hour to get there. Especially if she was "striding confidently". (Was she striding confidently or hurrying towards her biker friend as quickly as possible?) Maybe 10 minutes at most. Also, in whatever time it took, he had somehow failed to notice this large and menacing dog was not with them. The part with the solstice question was the exact spot the biker was -both were distracted at this point and he described the spot as being dark and tree lined.

As to how they got away without Frank hearing the bike - well that is harder to guess but some very large bikes are extremely quiet due to the powerful engine. Why else would she have asked Frank to walk on unless to try and slip away quietly without the chance of him running after them?

edit - I don't rule out anything strange, I am a Fortean after all but am just pointing out why it may not be strange after all.
I was also talking about myself "Force fitting things" It wasn't an accusation, I'am glad that people have shared their views and I value them.
 
Last edited:
Although this story has the makings of Little Red Riding Hood in reverse, this part of the account pings on my radar...
The hairs all over my body stood on end as if I’d touched a live wire and I stopped.

I then – and I really don’t know why – asked the first thing that came into my head: ‘Do you know why the 23rd is called mid-summer although today is the Solstice?’ “It was a pathetic question.

It had come from nowhere and just sounded stupid, but the affect it had on ‘Nicola’ was bizarre.

She stopped in her tracks and her face became contorted and angry. Her eyes narrowed to slits and her nostrils flared. ‘Why are you asking me this?’ she demanded.
This is hardly idle conversation nor a good chat up line. And I find it a bit bizarre to be honest. We only have Frank’s account of her eyes narrowing and her nostrils flaring as a reaction when she could have thought, ‘Oh Jesus. I’m in the woods with a pagan nutjub’.
 
Although this story has the makings of Little Red Riding Hood in reverse, this part of the account pings on my radar...

This is hardly idle conversation nor a good chat up line. And I find it a bit bizarre to be honest. We only have Frank’s account of her eyes narrowing and her nostrils flaring as a reaction when she could have thought, ‘Oh Jesus. I’m in the woods with a pagan nutjub’.
We've all been there....
 
Back
Top