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"Meeting Nicola"

Although this story has the makings of Little Red Riding Hood in reverse, this part of the account pings on my radar...

This is hardly idle conversation nor a good chat up line. And I find it a bit bizarre to be honest. We only have Frank’s account of her eyes narrowing and her nostrils flaring as a reaction when she could have thought, ‘Oh Jesus. I’m in the woods with a pagan nutjub’.
From what I have gathered when i asked him about it, he just didnt know what to say after talking and then after the feeling of unease, so he just blurted out a question he had pondered over, he knew from the moment it left his lips that it sounded stupid, but alas he couldn't take it back.
 
Although this story has the makings of Little Red Riding Hood in reverse, this part of the account pings on my radar...

This is hardly idle conversation nor a good chat up line. And I find it a bit bizarre to be honest. We only have Frank’s account of her eyes narrowing and her nostrils flaring as a reaction when she could have thought, ‘Oh Jesus. I’m in the woods with a pagan nutjub’.
I think that may be exactly why she behaved the way she did. And she probably suddenly felt vulnerable at that point.
The arrival of the biker gave her a way out of the situation.
 
The whole strange experience was sort of ringing bells with me and, bearing in mind Frank has been in a lot of fights and may have experienced a head injury, I looked up "petit mal seizure".

A seizure may be prefaced with a "warning aura" which may involve:-

Sound a bit familiar?

Furthermore:-


This other type I was thinking of (petit mal) is:-

15 seconds is more than enough time for someone to ride away on a motorbike.

Source https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/epilepsy/symptoms/

Please don't be too concerned about this - it doesn't mean Frank has or had epilepsy as it is commonly understood. This was probably only a temporary thing.

If this is what happened though, it does mean Frank is not crazy or was inches away from being murdered which I hope is of some comfort to him!:)
I meant to include this type of thing in my list of possible psychological explanations - I must have forgotten! :)

Seriously, though, the human memory is a funny thing. Once at a party some people I just met asked where I went to school. I answered with the local public school system (in the American sense of "public") - somehow forgetting the nearly eight years I spent at the Catholic grade school in town. It may have been understandable considering the panic attacks I suffered in my last few years there, but when I got home I was quite shaken for a while when I realized that what I said was truly a forgetting, not a deliberate lie or omission.

More directly relevant to the story at hand, haven't we all experienced, usually during an uneventful walk, ride, or drive on a familiar route, the realization that we have no clear memory of the last 10 minutes or so? And in an FT some time ago, Jenny Randles related the more extreme case of having no memory of making a presentation only minutes after doing so.
 
I meant to include this type of thing in my list of possible psychological explanations - I must have forgotten! :)

Seriously, though, the human memory is a funny thing. Once at a party some people I just met asked where I went to school. I answered with the local public school system (in the American sense of "public") - somehow forgetting the nearly eight years I spent at the Catholic grade school in town. It may have been understandable considering the panic attacks I suffered in my last few years there, but when I got home I was quite shaken for a while when I realized that what I said was truly a forgetting, not a deliberate lie or omission.

More directly relevant to the story at hand, haven't we all experienced, usually during an uneventful walk, ride, or drive on a familiar route, the realization that we have no clear memory of the last 10 minutes or so? And in an FT some time ago, Jenny Randles related the more extreme case of having no memory of making a presentation only minutes after doing so.

I agree that the brain sometimes has the ability to play strange tricks on us. I had such an experience fairly recently. A wet Sunday afternoon, I was idly flicking through the internet and half watching TV, when I suddenly thought I had woken up, although MsPetes said I had not been asleep. I had no memory of what we had done that morning (we had been out) and have to admit panicked a touch and felt very uneasy for at least an hour or so. I still remember the sensation. (happens again I'm off to the quacks)

A couple of further thoughts. Frank described the bike as a large black and chrome one. In the early 80's that would likely describe a Harley or some sort of custom chopper. Either way you would have likely heard that from a mile away, if the motor was running. As far as Nicole wandering off down a lane with a stranger, the period was the height of "girl power", power dressing and the like, so she may have, at that age, simply not realised the potential dangers involved. Who knows?

I wonder if Frank, lulled into some sort of catatonic (wrong word but you know what I mean) state by the girl and the surroundings, simply never heard the bike and the apparent outburst by Nicole was simply more panic inducing than it might have been in another situation and this state of mind obscured the sound of the bike disappearing.
 
I agree that the brain sometimes has the ability to play strange tricks on us. I had such an experience fairly recently. A wet Sunday afternoon, I was idly flicking through the internet and half watching TV, when I suddenly thought I had woken up, although MsPetes said I had not been asleep. I had no memory of what we had done that morning (we had been out) and have to admit panicked a touch and felt very uneasy for at least an hour or so. I still remember the sensation. (happens again I'm off to the quacks)

A couple of further thoughts. Frank described the bike as a large black and chrome one. In the early 80's that would likely describe a Harley or some sort of custom chopper. Either way you would have likely heard that from a mile away, if the motor was running. As far as Nicole wandering off down a lane with a stranger, the period was the height of "girl power", power dressing and the like, so she may have, at that age, simply not realised the potential dangers involved. Who knows?

I wonder if Frank, lulled into some sort of catatonic (wrong word but you know what I mean) state by the girl and the surroundings, simply never heard the bike and the apparent outburst by Nicole was simply more panic inducing than it might have been in another situation and this state of mind obscured the sound of the bike disappearing.
The lane is such, that you would even hear a pushbike riding over the rutted lane, it's very quite and there was NO sound of any tires even, the biker appearing and dissapearing to me is the strangest part of all this, when considering there was no place for him to come from (property's on left are sealed off from the lane) and the river with steep side and bushes on the other side, also it's an open field so you would be able to see something. The description of the bike does sound to me like a Harley Fatboy or something similar.
 
Timeslip or alternative dimension slip? Her reaction to the question was very strange......
I suppose it depends on which way you look at it, or in what context. My take on it is this. I’d better set the scene. I don’t believe in ghosts, per se, and by that I mean when people see them, it’s not actually a ghost of a once living person, it’s a demon appearing in physical form, trying to perpetuate the lie that we can be in touch with “the other side.”. An explanation for this can be found in Luke 16:28. I’d have to check it again to be sure who was saying what, but basically once a person dies, they cannot come back. Someone who had died asked if they or someone else could be sent back to warn his brothers. He was told no, because "between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."

This being the case, who are these ghosts or spirits of your dear departed uncle Bill or whoever ? Because if it’s not him, the main culprit is the devil, who wants to trick as many people as possible so they go to hell instead of knowing the truth.
Under a spirit of deception, Frank met ‘Nicola’ who the devil had sent to lure him to his death. It almost worked, but just before the point of no return, Frank’s gut instinct told him something was very wrong, he felt uneasy and this translated into a physical feeling as well
The hairs all over my body stood on end as if I’d touched a live wire
. At this point, his rational mind became strong enough to override the demonic deception he’d been under, and he vocalised it by saying the first logical thing which came into his head.
Do you know why the 23rd is called mid-summer although today is the Solstice?
This was effectively the spellbreaker, and it angered ‘Nicola’ or whoever she / it really was. The dog / biker was one and the same, another physical embodiment of a demonic spirit, and both of them left Frank alone once they knew their attempt to lure him to an untimely death had failed.

People can, in certain states of consciousness, be very suggestible. In some types of counselling therapy, a way to bring a person back to the here and now, if they are delving deep into something which is troubling them, is to ask them a question. A good one is, “What was the original transaction ?” People can use the same thing on themselves if they are getting too deep into something and aren’t comfortable with it. It can also be used to bring people back to reality if they are hallucinating. One of the ‘text book’ ways to do this is to talk to yourself and ask a rational question, or focus on a physical object near to you. In the case of Frank, Nicola and the large, menacing and black dog / biker, Frank used it to his advantage, either knowingly or not, by asking a question which clearly demonstrated he was in the here and now, and no longer in a suggestible state or under the deception the demons had originally been using to take advantage of him. I suppose to some extent, the actual question isn’t actually important, as long as it demonstrates that the person asking it is in their adult ego state, ie in the here and now, and not in a suggestible state where they can be led and manipulated.

Oppressive people and /or spirits often react angrily if denied their wishes, so it’s hardly surprising to read that Nicola reacted as she did once she / it realized Frank wasn’t going to hell that day.
 
The lane is such, that you would even hear a pushbike riding over the rutted lane, it's very quite and there was NO sound of any tires even, the biker appearing and dissapearing to me is the strangest part of all this, when considering there was no place for him to come from (property's on left are sealed off from the lane) and the river with steep side and bushes on the other side, also it's an open field so you would be able to see something. The description of the bike does sound to me like a Harley Fatboy or something similar.
Yes agreed. Taken at face value the story of the incident is inexplicable, which makes it all the more fascinating.
 
I have had two experiences of people becoming very angry in an instant.

One, in person, a man at a former workplace, when I said I believed the ancients had some means of generating electricity through a form of battery.
He became really angry in his assertion that this was not true, it was an intense cold anger that did not dissipate.
What surprised me was that he did not wish to discuss it rationally, and that he showed such strong emotion about it.
I think it is a scientific and historical discussion without any emotion attached.

The second was when I told a female customer over the phone, that they could not have a product they wanted because it was not available.
They went from having a calm friendly conversation, to shouting at me in the very next sentence, continuing to berate me as stupid and badly informed.
There was no build up, it was an instant change.
Prior to phoning me, they had been incorrectly informed by someone else that this product was available.
It was bizarre, the product might have saved them a bit of money in the long run, but was hardly life changing or an urgent matter.
 
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I have had two experiences of people becoming very angry in an instant.

One, in person, a man at a former workplace, when I said I believed the ancients had some means of generating electricity through a form of battery.
A worker there became really angry in his assertion that this was not true, it was an intense cold anger that did not dissipate.
What surprised was that he did not wish to discuss it rationally, and that he showed such strong emotion about it.
I think it is a scientific or historical discussion without any emotion attached.

The second was when I told a female customer over the phone, that they could not have a product they wanted because it was not available.
They went from having a calm friendly conversation, to shouting at me in the every next sentence, continuing to berate me as stupid and badly informed.
There was no build up, it was an instant change.
Prior to phoning me, they had been incorrectly informed by someone else that this product was available.
It was bizarre, the product might have saved them a but of money in the long run, but was hardly life changing or an urgent matter.

I wonder if the woman was a narcissist. Narcissists are all sweetness and light when they're getting their own way but if they are told they can't have what they want their mood can change drastically in a split second.
 
I have had two experiences of people becoming very angry in an instant.

One, in person, a man at a former workplace, when I said I believed the ancients had some means of generating electricity through a form of battery.
A worker there became really angry in his assertion that this was not true, it was an intense cold anger that did not dissipate.
What surprised was that he did not wish to discuss it rationally, and that he showed such strong emotion about it.
I think it is a scientific or historical discussion without any emotion attached.

The second was when I told a female customer over the phone, that they could not have a product they wanted because it was not available.
They went from having a calm friendly conversation, to shouting at me in the every next sentence, continuing to berate me as stupid and badly informed.
There was no build up, it was an instant change.
Prior to phoning me, they had been incorrectly informed by someone else that this product was available.
It was bizarre, the product might have saved them a but of money in the long run, but was hardly life changing or an urgent matter.
Yes exactly. I came across this many times, that's why I would not attach too much importance to the sudden change in Nicole's demeanour, shocking as it appeared afterwards in the sequence of events.
 
I agree that the brain sometimes has the ability to play strange tricks on us. I had such an experience fairly recently. A wet Sunday afternoon, I was idly flicking through the internet and half watching TV, when I suddenly thought I had woken up, although MsPetes said I had not been asleep. I had no memory of what we had done that morning (we had been out) and have to admit panicked a touch and felt very uneasy for at least an hour or so. I still remember the sensation. (happens again I'm off to the quacks)

A couple of further thoughts. Frank described the bike as a large black and chrome one. In the early 80's that would likely describe a Harley or some sort of custom chopper. Either way you would have likely heard that from a mile away, if the motor was running. As far as Nicole wandering off down a lane with a stranger, the period was the height of "girl power", power dressing and the like, so she may have, at that age, simply not realised the potential dangers involved. Who knows?

I wonder if Frank, lulled into some sort of catatonic (wrong word but you know what I mean) state by the girl and the surroundings, simply never heard the bike and the apparent outburst by Nicole was simply more panic inducing than it might have been in another situation and this state of mind obscured the sound of the bike disappearing.

I disagree which I don't often do with PeteS but I don't think the girl power thing was that prevalent in the early 80's.

Firstly I was lucky to visit cities that had absolutely beautiful women when I was in my late teens and early 20's. I have seen women that to my eyes when I was that age were ethereal in their otherworldlieness.

Boys are pretty much insane during this time of their lives. Emotionally and hormonally - this is why they get into so much trouble.

Girls at that time and age were notoriously difficult to engage with if you were an odd type, (this is way before nerds became cool), and if you said the wrong thing then you were doomed -nothing supernatural there.

DO you lot not remember being classed as a weirdo because of the music you liked or the fact you didn't play sports? Nothing really strikes me as strange here.

Not hearing the bike - that's tricky - but I put that down to faulty memory rather than Odin turning up to retrieve his Valkyrie daughter.
 
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I disagree which I don't often do with PeteS but I don't think the girl power thing was that prevalent in the early 80's.

Firstly I was lucky to visit cities that had absolutely beautiful women when I was in my late teens and early 20's. I have seen women that to my eyes when I was that age were ethereal in their otherworldlieness.

Boys are pretty much insane during this time of their lives. Emotionally and hormonally - this is why they get into so much trouble.

Girls at that time and age were notoriously difficult to engage with if you were an odd type, (this is way before nerds became cool), and if you said the wrong thing then you were doomed -nothing supernatural there.

DO you lot not remember being classed as a weirdo because of the music you liked or the fact you didn't play sports? Nothing really strikes me as strange here.

Not hearing the bike - that's tricky - but I put that down to faulty memory rather than Odin turning up to retrieve his Valkyrie daughter.
You wanted to try being a woman who wasn't 'ethereal in her loveliness'!

If you were a plain girl then the boys' eyes didn't even touch you. You were dismissed instantly as not worthy of notice. Even the 'odd types' weren't interested, they were too busy silently standing by the 'absolutely beautiful women'.

It was infinitely more ego-destroying than just not not being engaged with.
 
I disagree which I don't often do with PeteS but I don't think the girl power thing was that prevalent in the early 80's.

Firstly I was lucky to visit cities that had absolutely beautiful women when I was in my late teens and early 20's. I have seen women that to my eyes when I was that age were ethereal in their otherworldlieness.

Boys are pretty much insane during this time of their lives. Emotionally and hormonally - this is why they get into so much trouble.

Girls at that time and age were notoriously difficult to engage with if you were an odd type, (this is way before nerds became cool), and if you said the wrong thing then you were doomed -nothing supernatural there.

DO you lot not remember being classed as a weirdo because of the music you liked or the fact you didn't play sports? Nothing really strikes me as strange here.

Not hearing the bike - that's tricky - but I put that down to faulty memory rather than Odin turning up to retrieve his Valkyrie daughter.
Wasn't just the silent-ness of the bike , but the sudden appearance and disappearance also. He wrote down the experience less than an hour after he had it, and also went to his cousins house straight after to explain what happend..

With cases like this you have 2 camps, Camp A: " we know everything there is to know and EVERYTHING can be explained in our existing philosophy", anything inconvenient gets cut out or redefined to fit our thesis , then there's Camp B :" It's all down to some SUPERNATURAL agency"

I have considered both (Although I like to use " EXOTIC Phenomena " than Supernatural.

PS I do like the Idea of Odin stopping by with his Valkyrie daughter. ;)
 
Unless I’m mistaken, Damien has helpfully supplied a possible picture of someone who looks like Nicola.
1611267800392.jpeg

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/seeing-a-person-disappear.67803/page-4#post-2026095



‘ftnc.jpg’ Is this related to ‘Nicola’?
 
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“The girl had jet-black hair, very white, faultless skin and plump, full red lips. Her eyes were stunning and were a true emerald green, sparkling in the murky light and piercing.
 
It was as we approached the end of the rough, rutted lane which led to the lake that I suddenly became very uneasy in her company.

It would be very helpful if you (Damien) could annotate the Google Maps image to indicate:

- where Frank first saw / met Nicola
- which end of the lane leading to Broad Water Lake (Broad Water Walk) it was where the Nicola blow-up and biker encounter occurred.

The latter point might be critical to figuring out whether there's a mundane explanation for Frank's story. The phrasing (quoted above) can be read to mean the end near Walton Lane or the end at Broad Water Lake.
 
Another point ...

Nicola said she was walking her Nan's dog, and she didn't seem concerned about wandering off and leaving the dog. This can be taken to imply the dog was near enough to her Nan's residence to be trusted to make its way home without her. Accordingly, this implies her Nan lived close to the area of the incident.

What if her Nan's place was adjacent (or near) to Broad Water Walk, and Nicola's stroll with Frank was conveniently leading her back / closer to familiar territory where she might duck away from Frank easily? This would help to explain her casual attitude toward engaging in the stroll and raise the possibility she didn't have to backtrack strictly along Broad Water Walk to leave Frank (e.g., she knew of a shortcut off to the side).
 
Damien - no I don't think it's as simple as 2 camps at all. I guess a lot of us on here have had experiences that are in effect inexplicable, some important, some less serious in stature. It's the nature of the forum to analyse posts of this type to see if in fact there are logical explanations to a sequence of events which on the face of it may be deemed to be other worldly. That's surely a major part of the reason for this forum's existence. It's not a question of cutting out anything which is inconvenient, but testing various hypotheses to see if any fits. ( I've certainly analysed my experiences to death over the years, as have others). Analysis of the event does not mean we disbelieve Frank or his view of what happened. People on here are much more open minded than that.
 
Damien - no I don't think it's as simple as 2 camps at all. I guess a lot of us on here have had experiences that are in effect inexplicable, some important, some less serious in stature. It's the nature of the forum to analyse posts of this type to see if in fact there are logical explanations to a sequence of events which on the face of it may be deemed to be other worldly. That's surely a major part of the reason for this forum's existence. It's not a question of cutting out anything which is inconvenient, but testing various hypotheses to see if any fits. ( I've certainly analysed my experiences to death over the years, as have others). Analysis of the event does not mean we disbelieve Frank or his view of what happened. People on here are much more open minded than that.

I absolutely don't disbelieve that Frank had an experience that he felt to be 'otherworldly'. It clearly left him with a vivid impression.

However, all the dwelling on how gorgeous and attractive and lovely Nicola was does make me wonder if his hormones had a very large part to play in the unforgettable nature of the event and perhaps led to him thinking over and (possibly, without intending to) embellishing the meeting in his head. If his attention was totally focussed on trying to get in with this gorgeous woman, then perhaps he just wasn't paying attention to other external cues, like the arrival of the biker and Nicola's wanting to get away.

I have had events which have seemed to be impossible at the time, but, on reflection, it's been my own mental state that has made them seem so. To anyone else they would just be 'shrug and forget it' moments.
 
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