Metal Detectoring

[Bad Bungle]

Church settles unholy row over £2m Viking Age hoard.
Detectorist found Britain's finest hoard of Viking-age treasure (900AD) on Church of Scotland land in 2014. After rumbling through the treasure-trove Court, he was awarded nearly £2 million reward (items go to the museums). Scottish rules on declared finds are derived from Common law (all to the finder) and differs from the rest of Britain (50:50 finder/ land owner). He allegedly promised a cut of the reward to the Church, but felt side-lined by the media interest and renegaded on the verbal deal. The Church of Scotland took legal action for a share of the prize and this has now been settled out of court.
The detectorist is being slated on various detecting forums for being a pratt - if he had given half the reward to the Church (their land) in the first place, he would have been £1 million up without the legal costs and derision. The obvious course now for land owners in Scotland is not to let anyone onto their fields without a written contract on how finds will be divvied up.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Galloway-Derek-McLennan-Church-Scotland.html

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Currently doing some test pitting at Spaldington Old Hall Farm in advance of our 'big dig' next spring. Our detectorist came up with this little beauty. Current thinking is that it is a pendant celebrating the Vatican jubilee of 1600 under Pope Clement VIII. Sadly the scene on the reverse is not clear.
This find is exciting for us because the farm is on the site of Spaldington Hall, which was the home of the Vavasour family. The Vavasours were famous recusants and we are searching for their chapel which was in sited in the grounds. The pendant would obviously not be worn conspicuously so may have been worn under clothing.
View attachment 70478

I've always been a bit interested in the Vavasours as I think I'm related - only by marriage, but still - (to the ones near Bubwith). And in the Bubwith parish records - think it was the parish church warden's accounts or summat like that, I forget, found reference to an 18thC Vavasour burial. Despite him being a catholic, the C of E vicar quietly had him buried under the church's altar rail. (Am guessing that funeral wasn't a daytime one). Which I found fascinating. Same records listed expenditures for Guy Fawkes' celebrations... The recusants there included the Askes from the Pilgrimage of Grace (I don't appear to be related to them!) They had a comprehensive list of recusants that's still extant. My Bubwith lot had Wesley preach in their farmhouse and so became Methodists and had quite a few East Riding chapels built including one in the parish where I live (now some hipster house). There does seem to be an East Riding thing of Catholics and Methodists being related. I think the Methodism is easy to see the roots of - Wesley literally travelling up the rivers. Here, a chapel was built close to the river bank where he stepped off his boat. The Catholicism seems to have lingered really, really strongly in Howdenshire and the E Riding for reasons that are more difficult to figure out. Hensall produced the UK's greatest ever Catholic prelate of England in the 20th century, Cardinal Hinsley, also from that same mix of Methodism and Catholicism.

 

[Sid]

Could be, but upon giving it a think and reading some of the other articles in this thread, it looks as though it's only done upon being found, cataloged and whatever else they do with antiquities before being returned to the finder but why to the crown and not to the government? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

Crown land?

 

[Sogna]

Could be, but upon giving it a think and reading some of the other articles in this thread, it looks as though it's only done upon being found, cataloged and whatever else they do with antiquities before being returned to the finder but why to the crown and not to the government? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime

Treasure belongs to the Crown but it is administered by the Secretary of State. Once it’s declared treasure by the coroner it is offered to museums for them to acquire, if they do acquire it they fund a reward which can be paid to the finder and landowner. It’s an odd system but it seems to work, and its aim is to make sure that important finds can be seen by the public, can I commend to you the Treasure Act 1996 Code of Practice (3rd Revision) which explains it all a lot better.

 

[hunck]

Church settles unholy row over £2m Viking Age hoard.
Detectorist found Britain's finest hoard of Viking-age treasure (900AD) on Church of Scotland land in 2014. After rumbling through the treasure-trove Court, he was awarded nearly £2 million reward (items go to the museums). Scottish rules on declared finds are derived from Common law (all to the finder) and differs from the rest of Britain (50:50 finder/ land owner). He allegedly promised a cut of the reward to the Church, but felt side-lined by the media interest and renegaded on the verbal deal. The Church of Scotland took legal action for a share of the prize and this has now been settled out of court.
The detectorist is being slated on various detecting forums for being a pratt - if he had given half the reward to the Church (their land) in the first place, he would have been £1 million up without the legal costs and derision. The obvious course now for land owners in Scotland is not to let anyone onto their fields without a written contract on how finds will be divvied up.

View attachment 71504

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Galloway-Derek-McLennan-Church-Scotland.html

Amazing condition aren't they?

 

[Aydee_Aitchdee]

Treasure belongs to the Crown but it is administered by the Secretary of State. Once it’s declared treasure by the coroner it is offered to museums for them to acquire, if they do acquire it they fund a reward which can be paid to the finder and landowner. It’s an odd system but it seems to work, and its aim is to make sure that important finds can be seen by the public, can I commend to you the Treasure Act 1996 Code of Practice (3rd Revision) which explains it all a lot better.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Huh. Being an American, I have no concept of governments acting rationally.

 

[Bad Bungle]

Treasure belongs to the Crown but it is administered by the Secretary of State.

Scotland is outside of the 1996 Treasure Act (Englnd, Wales and N.I.) and according to the article :
"The Galloway Hoard was processed by the King’s and Lord Treasurer’s Remembrancer, which is the Crown’s representative in Scotland responsible for ownerless property." The British so love historical positions of government and archaic traditions .

 

[eziofan]

I've always been a bit interested in the Vavasours as I think I'm related - only by marriage, but still - (to the ones near Bubwith). And in the Bubwith parish records - think it was the parish church warden's accounts or summat like that, I forget, found reference to an 18thC Vavasour burial. Despite him being a catholic, the C of E vicar quietly had him buried under the church's altar rail. (Am guessing that funeral wasn't a daytime one). Which I found fascinating. Same records listed expenditures for Guy Fawkes' celebrations... The recusants there included the Askes from the Pilgrimage of Grace (I don't appear to be related to them!) They had a comprehensive list of recusants that's still extant. My Bubwith lot had Wesley preach in their farmhouse and so became Methodists and had quite a few East Riding chapels built including one in the parish where I live (now some hipster house). There does seem to be an East Riding thing of Catholics and Methodists being related. I think the Methodism is easy to see the roots of - Wesley literally travelling up the rivers. Here, a chapel was built close to the river bank where he stepped off his boat. The Catholicism seems to have lingered really, really strongly in Howdenshire and the E Riding for reasons that are more difficult to figure out. Hensall produced the UK's greatest ever Catholic prelate of England in the 20th century, Cardinal Hinsley, also from that same mix of Methodism and Catholicism.

Wow! That is the branch of the Vavasours that lived in Spaldington Hall which was there before the farm. They were all buried in Bubwith church where they have a family vault. The dig we will be starting next spring will be looking for their chapel (built by the De La Hay family who married into the Vavasours around the 16thc. If you would like to visit the dig when we are under way you are more than welcome!

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Wow! That is the branch of the Vavasours that lived in Spaldington Hall which was there before the farm. They were all buried in Bubwith church where they have a family vault. The dig we will be starting next spring will be looking for their chapel (built by the De La Hay family who married into the Vavasours around the 16thc. If you would like to visit the dig when we are under way you are more than welcome!

Would love to. Thank you! I didn't realise they were at Spaldington. I'll get to the Borthwick over the winter and see if I can refind that document - would be over a decade since I saw it, but I think it was the churchwarden's accounts. Will let you know what I find. Often been in Bubwith church but never thought to look for the Vavasours on any inscriptions - assumed there were none! But maybe that vault was under the altar rail, then?

My family who I think had a Vavasour marriage, were at Foggathorpe. I don't know Spaldington at all but Google Maps just showed me it's close - 3 miles away! Didn't realise when I posted this morning. Vavasours were also in the village where we live now and I think it was essentially a farm but a moated manor house that appears in the hearth tax records, for many years. A lot of these small manor houses seem to have evolved into farms, at some point. The one here had yet another methodist chapel built in its grounds by the mid 19thc.

Don't know much about the Vavasours apart from that they were catholics and I think stayed neutral in the War of the Roses? Not sure if that's really the case, or where I read it.

 

[eziofan]

Would love to. Thank you! I didn't realise they were at Spaldington. I'll get to the Borthwick over the winter and see if I can refind that document - would be over a decade since I saw it, but I think it was the churchwarden's accounts. Will let you know what I find. Often been in Bubwith church but never thought to look for the Vavasours on any inscriptions - assumed there were none! But maybe that vault was under the altar rail, then?

My family who I think had a Vavasour marriage, were at Foggathorpe. I don't know Spaldington at all but Google Maps just showed me it's close - 3 miles away! Didn't realise when I posted this morning. Vavasours were also in the village where we live now and I think it was essentially a farm but a moated manor house that appears in the hearth tax records, for many years. A lot of these small manor houses seem to have evolved into farms, at some point. The one here had yet another methodist chapel built in its grounds by the mid 19thc.

Don't know much about the Vavasours apart from that they were catholics and I think stayed neutral in the War of the Roses? Not sure if that's really the case, or where I read it.

Hi GITM. During our research into Spaldington Hall and the Vavasour family we came across this painting.

Its title is "A Lady of the Vavasour Family" and dates from late 1600s to early 1700s. A sticker on the back of the painting states that it was owned by Sir H.M. Vavasour, Baronet (either Sir Henry Maghull Mervin Vavasour, 2nd Baronet (1768–1838), or his son Sir Henry Mervin Vavasour, 3rd Baronet (1814–1912). The father and son were the last Vavasours to live at Spaldington Hall and so therefore we can assume that this painting hung in Spaldington Hall and that the lady in question was one of their ancestors and also one of yours!

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Hi GITM. During our research into Spaldington Hall and the Vavasour family we came across this painting.

View attachment 71567

Its title is "A Lady of the Vavasour Family" and dates from late 1600s to early 1700s. A sticker on the back of the painting states that it was owned by Sir H.M. Vavasour, Baronet (either Sir Henry Maghull Mervin Vavasour, 2nd Baronet (1768–1838), or his son Sir Henry Mervin Vavasour, 3rd Baronet (1814–1912). The father and son were the last Vavasours to live at Spaldington Hall and so therefore we can assume that this painting hung in Spaldington Hall and that the lady in question was one of their ancestors and also one of yours!

Only by marriage, sadly. But it's lovely to see what one of them looked like. I wonder who she was? Seem to remember the marriage was sometime 18thC but judging by the clothing there, it would be after that, no doubt.

And it's got to be the third daughter of a fifth son or something that married into my dad's family because my lot were just yeoman farmers, not even hedge knights like the Vavasours, but just farmers in the 18thc.

Bubwith is one of the few places where we have 19thC gravestones from our family in the churchyard, though - amazing when you think of the thousands of ancestors we all have, and how few actually have (surviving) gravestones. I have ancestors in every churchyard round here - my dad's family mainly from the West Riding, Dales and Westmorland but he had just this one branch here, a parish or two away from my mum's (also farmers) but almost not a single gravestone between them! So few can look at the faces of their ancestors, it's quite a privilege for them that can.

 

[eziofan]

Only by marriage, sadly. But it's lovely to see what one of them looked like. I wonder who she was? Seem to remember the marriage was sometime 18thC but judging by the clothing there, it would be after that, no doubt.

And it's got to be the third daughter of a fifth son or something that married into my dad's family because my lot were just yeoman farmers, not even hedge knights like the Vavasours, but just farmers in the 18thc.

Bubwith is one of the few places where we have 19thC gravestones from our family in the churchyard, though - amazing when you think of the thousands of ancestors we all have, and how few actually have (surviving) gravestones. I have ancestors in every churchyard round here - my dad's family mainly from the West Riding, Dales and Westmorland but he had just this one branch here, a parish or two away from my mum's (also farmers) but almost not a single gravestone between them! So few can look at the faces of their ancestors, it's quite a privilege for them that can.

Our society has just finished digging a service trench in the churchyard at Hook, near Goole, and uncovered a previously unknown grave marker from 1744. So we have added a little bit more to the total sum of human knowledge!

 

[Sid]

Only by marriage, sadly. But it's lovely to see what one of them looked like. I wonder who she was? Seem to remember the marriage was sometime 18thC but judging by the clothing there, it would be after that, no doubt.

And it's got to be the third daughter of a fifth son or something that married into my dad's family because my lot were just yeoman farmers, not even hedge knights like the Vavasours, but just farmers in the 18thc.

Bubwith is one of the few places where we have 19thC gravestones from our family in the churchyard, though - amazing when you think of the thousands of ancestors we all have, and how few actually have (surviving) gravestones. I have ancestors in every churchyard round here - my dad's family mainly from the West Riding, Dales and Westmorland but he had just this one branch here, a parish or two away from my mum's (also farmers) but almost not a single gravestone between them! So few can look at the faces of their ancestors, it's quite a privilege for them that can.

This may be of some help. . .
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hay-1739

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Our society has just finished digging a service trench in the churchyard at Hook, near Goole, and uncovered a previously unknown grave marker from 1744. So we have added a little bit more to the total sum of human knowledge!

Wonder where those nice 18thc gravestones ended up being recycled? Nice, masoned stone can't have gone to waste!

 

[eziofan]

This may be of some help. . .
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hay-1739

Thanks for that Sid. Surprisingly, although the De La Hayes had their own chapel they were mostly buried in nearby Ellerton Priory, the land for which was granted by the De La Hay family. an excavation at Ellerton Priory is on our Future Projects list!

 

[Sid]

Thanks for that Sid. Surprisingly, although the De La Hayes had their own chapel they were mostly buried in nearby Ellerton Priory, the land for which was granted by the De La Hay family. an excavation at Ellerton Priory is on our Future Projects list!

Nice one!

 

[Steven]

Must say, that was a really good piece of detective-work, working out that the pendant was related to Clement's Jubilee Year. Given that it features the standard 'ROMA' clue, otherwise there seemed nothing to differentiate it from any other pilgrimage pendant, medal or badge.

 

[Frideswide]

Our society has just finished digging a service trench in the churchyard at Hook, near Goole, and uncovered a previously unknown grave marker from 1744. So we have added a little bit more to the total sum of human knowledge!

Did the stratigraphy connect directly to that of the church?

 

[eziofan]

Did the stratigraphy connect directly to that of the church?

Roughly, yes. The main body of the church sits below the current level of the churchyard but the later vestry is at current ground level which you can see in the background of the attached photo..

 

[eziofan]

Must say, that was a really good piece of detective-work, working out that the pendant was related to Clement's Jubilee Year. Given that it features the standard 'ROMA' clue, otherwise there seemed nothing to differentiate it from any other pilgrimage pendant, medal or badge.

Got to credit the metal detectorist community for this one. An Italian detectorist had found one previously and gave us the lead.

 

[Bad Bungle]

Very poor pickings on a Club Dig yesterday so I was stunned when a silver hammered coin came up amongst the trash. Well it was definitely silver (black as coal) and hammered, but not a coin. My Club director and his 4 year old son said they could see a heart on one side, I see different things each time I look at it, but I've outlined what I think they meant. The other side is like looking into the face of God (no offence intended). There was a practice of smoothing down William III (1690's) silver coins, bending them into an 'S' shape and making love tokens - many of which seem to end up in fields. My 'coin' is the same size as a love token but not a milled edge and thinner (25% lighter). Some-one must have had fun making that.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Very poor pickings on a Club Dig yesterday so I was stunned when a silver hammered coin came up amongst the trash. Well it was definitely silver (black as coal) and hammered, but not a coin. My Club director and his 4 year old son said they could see a heart on one side, I see different things each time I look at it, but I've outlined what I think they meant. The other side is like looking into the face of God (no offence intended). There was a practice of smoothing down William III (1690's) silver coins, bending them into an 'S' shape and making love tokens - many of which seem to end up in fields. My 'coin' is the same size as a love token but not a milled edge and thinner (25% lighter). Some-one must have had fun making that.

View attachment 71699 View attachment 71700 View attachment 71701 View attachment 71702

That is badly mangled - but hey, it's silver. Still worth something.

 

[Bad Bungle]

That is badly mangled - but hey, it's silver. Still worth something.

Spot price for silver yesterday ~ £1.30. Think I'll keep it to tweak my settings in the sitting room.

 

[Frideswide]

said they could see a heart on one side

not convinced. You could try

* manipulating the image
* lighting it from a very low angle
* doing a rubbing
* pressing it into a soft matrix like a seal
* coating it with a dark powder in the cleaning it off gently so that it remains in the marks

 

[Mythopoeika]

Spot price for silver yesterday ~ £1.30. Think I'll keep it to tweak my settings in the sitting room.

Silver is worth more than that, surely? How depressing.

 

[maximus otter]

Expert 'treasure hunter' left £15,000 richer after uncovering hoard



The metal detectorist, who has not been named, discovered buried ancient Roman coins in a Norfolk field in 2020 in a once-in-a-lifetime find.

The value of all the coins is estimated at £25,000

He has now sold the first 73 coins in his find at auction for £15,285, after he discovered 432 of the ancient coins.

One of the coins sold for £3,400 alone as it was issued by a famous emperor.

He stumbled upon the silver coins in a field in Colkirk, Norfolk, in February 2020.

The man found 40 coins and then returned the next day and found 40 more.
Incredibly, he was then prevented from going back to dig more due to the Covid lockdown in March 2020.

But, when he returned a few months later he was able to find 300 more in the field.

The hoard is likely to have been deposited at the beginning of the 5th century AD with the latest coin of Honorius dating no later than 402AD.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/24957153/treasure-hunter-metal-detectorist-big-find-roman-coins/

maximus otter

 

[Sid]

Expert 'treasure hunter' left £15,000 richer after uncovering hoard



The metal detectorist, who has not been named, discovered buried ancient Roman coins in a Norfolk field in 2020 in a once-in-a-lifetime find.

The value of all the coins is estimated at £25,000

He has now sold the first 73 coins in his find at auction for £15,285, after he discovered 432 of the ancient coins.

One of the coins sold for £3,400 alone as it was issued by a famous emperor.

He stumbled upon the silver coins in a field in Colkirk, Norfolk, in February 2020.

The man found 40 coins and then returned the next day and found 40 more.
Incredibly, he was then prevented from going back to dig more due to the Covid lockdown in March 2020.

But, when he returned a few months later he was able to find 300 more in the field.

The hoard is likely to have been deposited at the beginning of the 5th century AD with the latest coin of Honorius dating no later than 402AD.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/24957153/treasure-hunter-metal-detectorist-big-find-roman-coins/

maximus otter

I guess he'll be coining-it-in then! "Nice one!"

 

[Swifty]

Expert 'treasure hunter' left £15,000 richer after uncovering hoard



The metal detectorist, who has not been named, discovered buried ancient Roman coins in a Norfolk field in 2020 in a once-in-a-lifetime find.

The value of all the coins is estimated at £25,000

He has now sold the first 73 coins in his find at auction for £15,285, after he discovered 432 of the ancient coins.

One of the coins sold for £3,400 alone as it was issued by a famous emperor.

He stumbled upon the silver coins in a field in Colkirk, Norfolk, in February 2020.

The man found 40 coins and then returned the next day and found 40 more.
Incredibly, he was then prevented from going back to dig more due to the Covid lockdown in March 2020.

But, when he returned a few months later he was able to find 300 more in the field.

The hoard is likely to have been deposited at the beginning of the 5th century AD with the latest coin of Honorius dating no later than 402AD.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/24957153/treasure-hunter-metal-detectorist-big-find-roman-coins/

maximus otter

How come he gets to sell them when, normally, the state tries to claim hoards like this off most other detectorists?. Are these coins considered of non historical value instead?.

 

[maximus otter]

How come he gets to sell them when, normally, the state tries to claim hoards like this off most other detectorists?. Are these coins considered of non historical value instead?.

67. The circumstances in which finds may be disclaimed include:

● where no museum wants to acquire a find;
● where a museum decides it no longer wants to acquire a find;
● where the finder and the landowner decide they don’t want to claim a reward;
● where only part of a hoard is acquired by a museum, although all effort should be made to keep hoards together.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...75705/Treasure_Act_1996__Code_of_Practice.pdf

maximus otter

 

[Frideswide]

How come he gets to sell them when, normally, the state tries to claim hoards like this off most other detectorists?. Are these coins considered of non historical value instead?.

ripped from the context?