Minor Strangeness

INT21

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Sat out in the garden this afternoon.

Watching a plane passing over on the high level route that passes South East to North over this area.
Anyway, the plane is about half way across my field of vision when another one appears behind it. Following the same route. The another and finally a fourth. All spaced out by five or six mile I would estimate.
Now, apart from the number of planes following each other (usually it's just two) what struck me was that behind the first three planes was a short condensation trail , But not behind the fourth one.

They were all apparently (going by the size) at the same height, and following the same path.

So Why didn't they all produce a trail ?

INT21.
 

Ermintruder

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Not suggesting you are counting as such but after using it for a while surely your body will 'know' when it's about to go off?
But how? I could walk / jog 8,000 steps, over a whole day, and perhaps be tired-enough to feel as if I must've walked nearly 10,000. But I've not....and my weird pre-emptive 'spider sense' about the fitness bracelet doesn't falsely-alarm me.

That's the whole point. I shouldn't know that I've travelled 10,000 steps. But (when I have walked, say, 9,995) something inside me says "that bracelet is going to go buzzbuzz/wiggle-waggle...." and it then DOES, fractional seconds after I've had the notion. I've no clues / cues to prompt this expectation.

And this is not a case of repeated unfulfilled false expectations. As in expecting-it-to-go-off-all-the-time-and-then-when-it-does-Wow....

If it's not going at alert me, I know that too. If I feel it's just about to alert me, then it just does. Maybe not explaining this perfectly....does anyone follow my rather-rambling exposition?
 

EnolaGaia

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If the four planes were slavishly following the same path ...

Contrails are primarily the result of condensation coalescing on / in the engine exhausts. Secondarily, and to a lesser extent, similar but typically much smaller condensation trails can occur on or just behind the edges of a fast-moving aircraft such as a fighter.

At higher altitudes, such condensation is occurring within layers or strata which are relatively calm and humid.

One possible explanation is that the condensation caused by the first 3 planes dropped the localized moisture content to the point nothing condensed in response to the 4th plane's passage.

A related hypothesis would be that the passage of 3 planes in relatively close succession stirred up the air to the point condensation was forestalled for the 4th plane.

Another theory seems more likely to me ... The layers / strata within which such condensation occurs can be limited in extent (causing contrails to suddenly appear / disappear). It seems far more probable that the 4th plane was flying at a slightly different altitude placing it outside the "contrail condensation envelope".
 
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IbisNibs

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I've posted before about my missing money. Searched everywhere, it turned up in a notebook beside my bed, poking out and unmissable, even though I'd been looking for months.
This may seem like a dumb question but I have to ask: during that time, did you actually use the notebook?
 

catseye

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But how? I could walk / jog 8,000 steps, over a whole day, and perhaps be tired-enough to feel as if I must've walked nearly 10,000. But I've not....and my weird pre-emptive 'spider sense' about the fitness bracelet doesn't falsely-alarm me.

That's the whole point. I shouldn't know that I've travelled 10,000 steps. But (when I have walked, say, 9,995) something inside me says "that bracelet is going to go buzzbuzz/wiggle-waggle...." and it then DOES, fractional seconds after I've had the notion. I've no clues / cues to prompt this expectation.

And this is not a case of repeated unfulfilled false expectations. As in expecting-it-to-go-off-all-the-time-and-then-when-it-does-Wow....

If it's not going at alert me, I know that too. If I feel it's just about to alert me, then it just does. Maybe not explaining this perfectly....does anyone follow my rather-rambling exposition?
Does your 'fitbit' do something just *before* it buzzes, that you pick up on, but that's so quick it's almost unnoticeable? Like some alarm clocks do a sort of 'ting' just before they ring, which wakes the sleeper who then thinks they always wake just before the alarm?
 

INT21

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Planes on regular flights that aren't on approach or take off paths will (if not separated by tens of miles) be separated by some hundreds of feet in altitude to avoid the risk of collision.
They follow what is called 'the quadrature rule' (or something similar). Basically the ones going in one direction all fly at the same height. (or maybe some multiple, I can't remember) and those traveling at 90 degrees fly at this height minus a set number of feet altitude. The ones going in the opposite direction (say South) are at minus twice this altitude distance, likewise the ones traveling West are similarly spaced with regard to the ones going East.

So in theory the only planes at your height should be traveling in the same direction, and there should be little chance of collision.

This is why no one flies directly over the poles.

INT21.
 

Ermintruder

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Does your 'fitbit' do something just *before* it buzzes, that you pick up on, but that's so quick it's almost unnoticeable?
No. I wish it was that easy.

I even wondered if the fitbit *might* emit some Bluetooth radiofrequency energy, just prior to alarming, and that (somehow) I was detecting that. But I'm not convinced that it does- nor am I a strict believer in pseudoscientific 'electrosensitivity'.

However- I *am* open-minded as to all possible explanations. Because I think there's some degree of inexplicable actual perception going on....
 

EnolaGaia

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Planes on regular flights that aren't on approach or take off paths will (if not separated by tens of miles) be separated by some hundreds of feet in altitude to avoid the risk of collision.
... Basically the ones going in one direction all fly at the same height. (or maybe some multiple, I can't remember) and those traveling at 90 degrees fly at this height minus a set number of feet altitude. The ones going in the opposite direction (say South) are at minus twice this altitude distance, likewise the ones traveling West are similarly spaced with regard to the ones going East.
So in theory the only planes at your height should be traveling in the same direction, and there should be little chance of collision. ....
The most highly trafficked corridors (both nationally and internationally) have long been organized in terms of well-specified and enforced "tracks." These tracks are essentially ephemeral superhighways in the sky. The most widely known example would be the NAT's (North Atlantic Tracks) along which transatlantic flights are guided.

Such defined tracks have specific paths, waypoints, turning points, and entry / exit points. For recurring scheduled flights a big chunk of the planning simply consists of repeating a sequence of track-related actions. For incidental one-shot flights the planning commonly entails submitting a request to the relevant authority and in effect being given a reservation. These reservations entail specific times and track locations - they're not simply "open access tickets" for free-form use of the tracks.
 

INT21

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This doesn't apply in the same way to VFR flights. Hence the need for the Quadrature rule.
 

EnolaGaia

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This doesn't apply in the same way to VFR flights. Hence the need for the Quadrature rule.
True, but ... In most developed countries even VFR flights are subject to spatial restrictions and requirements for coordination with ATC. Unless you're operating out in the boonies, it's still not completely free-form.
 

INT21

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Going back to what triggered this.

The four planes I was watching were all of similar length, as viewed from my position. And this makes me believe that they were all at the same height.

The point of interest to me was why was the last one not putting out a visible condensate trail when the others were.

As an aside, planes using the same rout today are all leaving long vapour trails that are persisting for minutes after the planes have passed. Different conditions up there.
 

packshaud

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I even wondered if the fitbit *might* emit some Bluetooth radiofrequency energy, just prior to alarming, and that (somehow) I was detecting that. But I'm not convinced that it does- nor am I a strict believer in pseudoscientific 'electrosensitivity'.

However- I *am* open-minded as to all possible explanations. Because I think there's some degree of inexplicable actual perception going on....
Meteorites were considered lunacy until 1803, when thousands of the impossible things fell in a French city [ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...ped-establish-existence-meteorites-180963017/ ].

I would much rather go with my guts telling me about the presence of electric fields--something I could test by myself and falsify--than listening to some random internet stranger sneeringly patiently telling me about what I should be experiencing. Not that I am sensitive to electricity, but my tinnitus is annoying enough, and I'm sympathetic to your suffering.
 

PeteS

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No. I wish it was that easy.

I even wondered if the fitbit *might* emit some Bluetooth radiofrequency energy, just prior to alarming, and that (somehow) I was detecting that. But I'm not convinced that it does- nor am I a strict believer in pseudoscientific 'electrosensitivity'.

However- I *am* open-minded as to all possible explanations. Because I think there's some degree of inexplicable actual perception going on....
I have mentioned this before in respect of the telephone at my previous house. I always seemed to sense when the telephone was about to ring, and wondered whether I was detecting some radiofrequency emission prior to the ring.
 

RaM

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Maybe the heat from the planes in front had altered conditions enough to prevent the last plane producing them,
a difference in height of only a few hundred ft can make the difference.
One thing I have wondered about is that when conditions are just right you can not only see the con trail
but also a darker twin stretching out in front of the aircraft, it cant be there so must be some sort of optical
thing maybe a mirage or even just a shadow.
 

Sollywos

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Maybe the heat from the planes in front had altered conditions enough to prevent the last plane producing them,
a difference in height of only a few hundred ft can make the difference.
One thing I have wondered about is that when conditions are just right you can not only see the con trail
but also a darker twin stretching out in front of the aircraft, it cant be there so must be some sort of optical
thing maybe a mirage or even just a shadow.
Ah ha! I've only noticed it the once, several years ago watching two passenger planes as (opposed to the usual screaming jets in the area of Wales I was living in) flying westwards with the sun halfway towards setting. It looked like the planes were following their own individual tracks in the sky as I couldn't see why shadows would be in front of them. I tried to work out how it could be happening but decided I didn't have enough knowledge about heights and angles of view and upper atmosphere conditions. It was fascinating to see.

Sollywos x
 

Sollywos

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But how? I could walk / jog 8,000 steps, over a whole day, and perhaps be tired-enough to feel as if I must've walked nearly 10,000. But I've not....and my weird pre-emptive 'spider sense' about the fitness bracelet doesn't falsely-alarm me.But how? I could walk / jog 8,000 steps, over a whole day, and perhaps be tired-enough to feel as if I must've walked nearly 10,000. But I've not....and my weird

That's the whole point. I shouldn't know that I've travelled 10,000 steps. But (when I have walked, say, 9,995) something inside me says "that bracelet is going to go buzzbuzz/wiggle-waggle...." and it then DOES, fractional seconds after I've had the notion. I've no clues / cues to prompt this expectation.

And this is not a case of repeated unfulfilled false expectations. As in expecting-it-to-go-off-all-the-time-and-then-when-it-does-Wow....

If it's not going at alert me, I know that too. If I feel it's just about to alert me, then it just does. Maybe not explaining this perfectly....does anyone follow my rather-rambling exposition?
I was meaning that your subconscious was taking note. Given that not all the stuff that's going on is noticed by our conscious mind. It's not so much about how you are feeling but how things are. After a few times of the bleeper going off a pattern was noticed and so you got the 'inner knowing' pre-alerts. I'm not saying that that is what's happening as I'm not the person experiencing it which could be quite different to how I'm imagining it and I don't know enough about neuroscience! :)

Sollywos x
 

RaM

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I would not argue with the shadow but I would expect a shadow to have to have something
to project onto, next time I see it I will try to make out if there are any higher clouds but
they would have to be very high above 30,000 ft.
 

Ermintruder

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As in, how many times have you thought about it about to buzz/wiggle and it hasn't done so?
Semi-consciously / sub-consciously, that would be nil. That's why I'm finding this such an enescapably-intriguing personal phenomenon. No perceptable level, or instances, of false preemption.

I never find myself thinking "I wonder if it's going to go buzzbuzz-wigglewaggle", followed by it then NOT alarming.

I only (appear) to think of this (when I do think of this, at all) just before it does actually alarm. Maybe twice or three times a week.

I'm still not convinced that what I'm experiencing is anything other than a perceptual illusion of prophesy. But it's very interesting to personally experience. I'm trying to be as objective an analyst of myself as I can be (and I'm a fairly-trustworthy test subject)
 

IbisNibs

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Inner Fitbit phenom: My vote goes to muscle memory. The target of walking 10,000 steps became relevant to you, so your body paid attention and learned to sense when you'd reached the goal.

Money on vacation in the notebook phenom:
No. I have half a dozen notebooks up there, this one was on top, but I hadn't used any of them.
So (theoretically) you could have overlooked the money sticking out because you weren't actually engaging with the notebook. It's easy to stop seeing things in plain sight, because your brain (I believe ) prioritizes according to what you actually do with stuff. Maybe if the notebook itself had been important to you, your brain would have noticed more about it, including that money was sticking out of it. Just a thought.
 

Trevp666

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I would not argue with the shadow but I would expect a shadow to have to have something
to project onto, next time I see it I will try to make out if there are any higher clouds but
they would have to be very high above 30,000 ft.
Maybe it's some kind of 'Brocken Spectre' effect?
 

PeteS

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I'm hoping for a bit of minor strangeness shortly. If you have ever been to Southport a coastal resort in the UK you will be aware of Lord Street, what was the main shopping street in the town. Largely late Victorian buildings which probably stretch for half a mile or so. Walked up and down there many times. What I hadn't realised was that in the past Lord Street was raised up considerably to avoid the risk of flooding. What is fairly exciting for those who are interested in such things is that the original level is still to some extent intact, with the original shop fronts and apparently unsold stock still in the windows. The street is to be opened to the public in the future. I'll be first in the queue.
 

Sollywos

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Maybe it's some kind of 'Brocken Spectre' effect?
I was wondering if it was something along those lines. Thinking about it last night and realising that when something seemingly odd has been observed accurate reporting is essential I thought to myself 'here's where I can help' as I have a clear picture in my mind. Then the more I thought about it the less certain I became of details that might be essential! If ever I see it again I'll take more notice.

So yes it was a clear sky where the planes were flying ... but how clear? Was there a slight milky haze to it? What type of clouds if any were about, how high and what sort? The two planes were following each other and they both had a clear line preceeding them. In my minds eye the lines were about 2 or 3 lenghts of the planes but other details have gone! So I can't be as much help as I thought. :(

Sorry about that but I'm glad it's come up on here as hopefully someone will come along with an explaination.

Sollywos x
 

Sollywos

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Inner Fitbit phenom: My vote goes to muscle memory. The target of walking 10,000 steps became relevant to you, so your body paid attention and learned to sense when you'd reached the goal.
Yes 'muscle memory' is a clearer way of putting it than I did above. On the other hand Ermintruder hasn't stated that she gets the feeling every time it goes off so it would seem some other factor comes into play.

Sollywos x
 
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