Modern Art & Postmodernism: Do They Degrade Mental Health?
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JamesWhitehead
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I would have more sympathy with him if he hadn't enrolled for such
a f'wit course in the first place.
Great Art has lost none of its value. What worries me is the number
of people who appear to lack the confidence to seek out the best
and most rewarding things. They will be different for everyone but
I suggest they will not exactly be thrust in your face.
a f'wit course in the first place.
Great Art has lost none of its value. What worries me is the number
of people who appear to lack the confidence to seek out the best
and most rewarding things. They will be different for everyone but
I suggest they will not exactly be thrust in your face.
A
Anonymous
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i can symathise with him but i agree its a realy course for thick people!... Students for Art History seem to be children of dispaireing but rich parents who want them to have a degree but cant get em in anywhere else!.... or theyr girlies waiting to marry someone rich.....
the sad thing is now with digital technology and consumerism everybody now can maipulate their "entertainment" so they are only presented whith what the know/like..... no chalenge no suprise... thats postmordernism kitch for u
the sad thing is now with digital technology and consumerism everybody now can maipulate their "entertainment" so they are only presented whith what the know/like..... no chalenge no suprise... thats postmordernism kitch for u
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no, Italian neo-realism. THAT is boring.
And damn the post-modernists for making me lose faith in everything(because as we know everything is a text).
And damn the post-modernists for making me lose faith in everything(because as we know everything is a text).
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Anonymous
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Postmodernism is just "cant be arsed to think about what im doing" i trace its real birth to the start of Breakfast telly......
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Anonymous
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sidecar_jon said:
Back home, you find those in law school. Art history students are usually skint hippy types, and the odd rich kid who gets in sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Anonymous
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I'm naturally biased of course, but i don't think contemporary, popular opnion, or critics, or even the Satchi brother's will decide what art is really all about.
I think that the future will decide. People won't go for the cynical sophistry of artists like Damien Hirst.
No! They'll be looking for the raw, pre-slick computer graphics, savage energy and primitive, naivety of a comic strip genius.
Like, for example, Bob Monkhouse. I kid you not! Back in the fifties, Bob was one of Britain's best, superhero comic strip artists. According to Denis Gifford, in `Super Duper Supermen:'
"Bob Monkhouse is undoubtedly the best comics talent ever lost to showbiz."
Here's a sample of his work .
After seeing that I was almost prepared to forgive him for everything that came after!
Bob also drew for MarvelMan back in the fifties, apparently. One of Britain's best-ever superhero comics.
Post-modernism, who needs it?
I think that the future will decide. People won't go for the cynical sophistry of artists like Damien Hirst.
No! They'll be looking for the raw, pre-slick computer graphics, savage energy and primitive, naivety of a comic strip genius.
Like, for example, Bob Monkhouse. I kid you not! Back in the fifties, Bob was one of Britain's best, superhero comic strip artists. According to Denis Gifford, in `Super Duper Supermen:'
"Bob Monkhouse is undoubtedly the best comics talent ever lost to showbiz."
Here's a sample of his work .
After seeing that I was almost prepared to forgive him for everything that came after!
Bob also drew for MarvelMan back in the fifties, apparently. One of Britain's best-ever superhero comics.
Post-modernism, who needs it?
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Here's a sample of his work
Those monsters look like dickheads to me.
Those monsters look like dickheads to me.
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Anonymous
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Not exactly Dali, I know. But, is it art?
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FraterLibre
Guest
Brutarianism Forever
Amen.
Art Brut forever. deBuffet and his spawn.
Check out http://www.brutarian.com by the way, for the best current magazine stemming from this sensability. Subcribe early and often, if you wish, to the print zine, too. Hey, why ever not?
Better than coddling those postmodernist bastards and their fleck-ware wonderment sous-text droolings.
Amen.
Art Brut forever. deBuffet and his spawn.
Check out http://www.brutarian.com by the way, for the best current magazine stemming from this sensability. Subcribe early and often, if you wish, to the print zine, too. Hey, why ever not?
Better than coddling those postmodernist bastards and their fleck-ware wonderment sous-text droolings.
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Hmmmm, I'm wary of anyone who hasn't done a degree knocking it as a "f'wit course" or a "degree for thick people". Sorry, not getting at anyone, but doing a media degree I was sick of people and the press calling it a "mickey mouse course" or saying we should all be doing "proper" courses like English Lit. I don't dispute some degrees are probably "easier" than others, but there's hard work involved in all of them. Even art history.
Did quite a bit on postmodernism at uni, and it was quite odd how some people just couldn't comprehend it. Some otherwise intelligent students would turn into wibbling thickies when trying to grasp it. I think some minds just aren't made to handle the notion that everything around is ultimately meaningless and essentially cack (that's the short version of postmodernism, folks!).
Did quite a bit on postmodernism at uni, and it was quite odd how some people just couldn't comprehend it. Some otherwise intelligent students would turn into wibbling thickies when trying to grasp it. I think some minds just aren't made to handle the notion that everything around is ultimately meaningless and essentially cack (that's the short version of postmodernism, folks!).
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FraterLibre
Guest
Operant and Post-Operative
In developmental psychology, Piaget called people who could work only on a kind of concrete, physical level Operative and defined Post-operative folks as those who could easily abstract, use metaphor and simile, and so on. It's not to do with intelligence so much as what KIND of intelligence one has, and I suspect it's like that with art. As art theor and the art itself becomes less connected to representational forms, and more involved with theory and metaphor, many otherwise intelligent folks are left behind. Their contempt for it stems from a genuine belief that it's a load of bullshit. They honestly cannot see how there could be something to it that lies beyond their perception or thought processes. Yet it does.
It may well be, too, that literalists cannot be made into metaphoricals, as it were. It may be we're each stuck with the kind of mentality we've got. Which is okay, as long as the operant among us build bridges and the post-operant confine themselves to the arts.
As to difficulty, any topic taught at university level had damned well BETTER demand some strenuous efforts, lest why bother?
In developmental psychology, Piaget called people who could work only on a kind of concrete, physical level Operative and defined Post-operative folks as those who could easily abstract, use metaphor and simile, and so on. It's not to do with intelligence so much as what KIND of intelligence one has, and I suspect it's like that with art. As art theor and the art itself becomes less connected to representational forms, and more involved with theory and metaphor, many otherwise intelligent folks are left behind. Their contempt for it stems from a genuine belief that it's a load of bullshit. They honestly cannot see how there could be something to it that lies beyond their perception or thought processes. Yet it does.
It may well be, too, that literalists cannot be made into metaphoricals, as it were. It may be we're each stuck with the kind of mentality we've got. Which is okay, as long as the operant among us build bridges and the post-operant confine themselves to the arts.
As to difficulty, any topic taught at university level had damned well BETTER demand some strenuous efforts, lest why bother?
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Refreshing though Ryn, some folk seem to have acquired a degree in pomposity.
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Anonymous
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a friend mentioned a best selling American "artist" who painted sugary sweet choc box pictures.. and sells shed loads of em (GB Bush has some!)... and some guy changed a few to make acomment putting in suversive eliments like tanks and snippers... and got shut down prity quick...IN THE LAND OF THE FREE........aparentyl they just started selling houses based on these horrible paintings in a gated "comunity"....... it seems USA cant get enuf sentimental stuff......... cant for the life of me remeber the guys name tho.. any body know?
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Anonymous
Guest
I wouldn't dream of knocking degrees in Post-Modernism. I love bric-a-brac. I'm a bricoleur t' trade.
Is everything cack and meaningless? Why then do we strive for meaning? Me I thought that was one of the main drives in art and play, apart from making a living, of course. If meaning in the universe is up for grabs, then better be damn wary of what becomes the status quo.
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Anonymous
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Was it Norman Rockwell? I bought a couple of 1000 piece jigsaws of his work for use as Xmas presents, last year.
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Anonymous
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Evilsprout said:
i feel able to comment cos i got a degree before they were the equivelent of former A levels.............and your "short version" is not true... postmodernism can be seen as a lack of an overarching theory, personaly i think history will invent one cos thats what historians do...............
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Yeah, it was a gross oversimplification which was therefore not particularly accurate... What I meant is postmodernism sees everything as inherently meaningless in itself, the meaning coming with the context it is put and observed in. It also sees the end of ideology and the immersion of the individual into a mediascape, where everything is equally important, and therefore unimportant, to everything else, and we become consumers of everyday life, in which reality becomes a series of performances and spectacles, undifferentiated from the hyper-reality of the media.
Some people have trouble grasping these concepts (I'm sure you'll all point out that I'm not 100% there!), and my point is that the mechanisms that meant otherwise intelligent people couldn't get any of it is the same one that sent Mr Reid over the edge.
Some people have trouble grasping these concepts (I'm sure you'll all point out that I'm not 100% there!), and my point is that the mechanisms that meant otherwise intelligent people couldn't get any of it is the same one that sent Mr Reid over the edge.
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Anonymous
Guest
An accurate summary, I think. What a miserable, parochial view of the world. Satchi and Satchi as God? Welcome to Matrix World?
That's why some people think PM disappeared up its own, fundament, years ago. There are people in this world, who's lives are so comfortable and meaningless, that they never touch bottom (Fnarr! Fnarr!). That's their fault, not the fault of the real world, at large.
If our culture and arts can no longer bring at least a glimmer of the real into our heads then we are in trouble. PM., has its uses as a theory of cultural plasticity and new media. As a theory of the real, of `everything,' it's a bankrupt theory, based on a bankrupt philosophy. That's why I'm mostly a Fortean. Because, the world refuses to climb neatly into a box and close the lid.
There are people out there, who disagree with PM., not because they don't understand it, but because they understand it only too well. It's their life experience that tells them that it's not the world that's fake, it's PM. One of the biggest defences of PM is to attack its detractors as unable to grasp, or comprehend its complexity, its bold attack on the nature of `everything.'
As I've said elsewhere, on other subjects, our poor, little, monkey brains may have difficulty with the immensity of reality. Never the less, Reality's still sitting out there, demanding to be discovered.
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FraterLibre
Guest
Poor Little Minds
And others laugh when small minds use medium words to try to sneer at things beyond them. LOL
And others laugh when small minds use medium words to try to sneer at things beyond them. LOL
JamesWhitehead
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I am sorry Sprout took my earlier comment as a sneer at non-traditional
degree courses. Any course undertaken would be a f'wit one, if the
participants are empty vessels expecting to be filled.
The value is the bottle that we are expected to bring to the party.
To return to the bloke whose plight started the thread, I would suggest
that he was depressed anyway and would have looked at any subject
through shit-coloured specs. The fact that he was actually looking at a
lot of the brown stuff can't have helped matters.
The question of where we acquire the confidence to find rich meanings in
a value-free world is harder to answer. A rejection of the
mainstream seems to be a good starting point.
degree courses. Any course undertaken would be a f'wit one, if the
participants are empty vessels expecting to be filled.
The value is the bottle that we are expected to bring to the party.
To return to the bloke whose plight started the thread, I would suggest
that he was depressed anyway and would have looked at any subject
through shit-coloured specs. The fact that he was actually looking at a
lot of the brown stuff can't have helped matters.
The question of where we acquire the confidence to find rich meanings in
a value-free world is harder to answer. A rejection of the
mainstream seems to be a good starting point.
lordmongrove
Justified & Ancient
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Modern art is dumb.