gattino
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
- Messages
- 2,523
Having seen mediums and spiritualists on tv, in fact and fiction, in books, in movies...debunked, parodied or elevated to people with superpowers, but mostly having the piss taken out of them...and having read convincing accounts of them in books and articles, it occurred to me I've never actually witnessed any of this in person to make my own judgement. So last night I went to my nearest Spiritualist Church with 2 friends for the sheer novelty of..well...somethng new. Tautologies are us.
So I thought I'd recount here what it was like for those in the same position as me.. who think they've seen it but never actually have.
I'll prick the tension straight away and say no messages were delivered to me or my friends.
In total there were about 18 or 20 people in attendance besides us, several of whom were also first timers. Contrary to my expectations there were barely any white haired old dears or lonely house fraus amongst them...a few pairs of younger people were there and the largest demographic were older scruffily dressed men. At least one appeared to be a regular (he was greeted by name like Norm in Cheers) who one suspected was homeless and came in for a warm and a bit of attention. He seemed to want to put his hand up to claim any loose message going.
In terms of it being a "church", the place itself was a brightly lit hall as you'd imagine...with a dais or balcony rather than an altar. There were elements of a regular church service (2 prayers, 2 hymns, and a rattled collection box - doubt they got more than a tenner in loose change from it -- and a sort of brief sermon or homily from the guest medium) but besides the Lord's Prayer there was no reference to God or Jesus or the like. Even the hymn book included "Any Dream Will Do" from Joseph!
One odd and unexpected detail was that the man in charge was obliged to read out a disclaimer from a clipboard, like those at the end of TV psychic shows on Living...about how this is an experiment and no results can be guaranteed, no scientific claims are made etc. It stopped short only of saying the dread words "for entertainment purposes only". Presumably to avoid malicious or plain mad law suits, but it does make you wonder what would happen if the mainstream churches had to read out the same thing!
At last, the medium...
He's an invited medium, as they seemingly are each week, that's to say a different one each time doing the circuit. This one from Lancashire. He did his thing for about an hour. It pretty much consisted of I'm drawn to this side of the room or this gentleman here kind of thing...a good 3 or 4 times the individual he initially singled out struggled to agree with all he was saying (he insisted on yes or no answers) only for the person behind or next to them to say it all fit with them instead. He blamed his "aim" being off tonight. He also made a joke about envying these mediums who say they see a light over people's heads as he sees bugger all of that, and in fact doesn't believe them.
70% of his statements, I have to say, were evidentially rubbish...which is not to say untrue or inaccurate, but rather were so brazenly obvious, universal, or likely that a hit was almost inevitable and so was cynicism. Specifically the fact he nearly always was drawn to grey haired people only to ask if their father had passed on! Er... Add in lots of references to being in hospital, tender bedside vigils, difficulty breathing or heart problems before death (yeah..both stopped, Sherlock!) and "you keep a photograph/still talk to them" kind of statements...as well as character traits like sometimes stern fathers and tell-it-like-it-is mothers and my scepticism was getting a heat rash. Tellingly whenever he gave these typical older person character traits or habits (how many dead fathers used to have their own chair that no one else was allowed to sit in?) two young women a few rows in front of us, who were never the recipients, would turn to each other with a smile and a nod and whispered conversation that clearly implied "our dad/mum/uncle is just like that too"
I should repeat that the fact these things apply to "everyone" doesn't discount them from being absolutely true and coming from whom he claimed, but they were just useless as evidence. However......
One thing that the piss taker's gross caricature of these things got wrong is the idea of the medium saying "John..George..something beginning with a J.." It simply didn't happen.
For the most part he referred to people only by their relationship (Father, sister etc) but when he gave names they were singular, not in multiple variations or initials, and he didn't alter them at all. He got frustrated at the couple of hard of listening people who tried furnishing him with additional information rather than saying yes/no.
More importantly there were 3 separate individuals who, when he did "connect" to them got yes after yes after yes, as his comments went way beyond the "fits just about anyone" kind described above. Mentioning specific names, possessions, or incidents that happened two nights ago etc etc. The constant stream of yeses from the individuals in question were unhesitant and not to be confused with the "desperate for it to be me/agree with anything" types, of which there was at least one or two present. Just as impressive was the emotional response in these 3 cases as I was watching them, rather than the medium, and the dawning realisation on their part that this really was their dead whoever had them holding back very genuine tears of joy and amazement as they got apparent hit after hit.
We can't entirely rule out the possibility they were agreeing to things which weren't accurate for reasons of their own, but on the surface they appeared genuinely moved and their responses emphatic. Interestingly I can't tell you or recall what actually was said because it has no relevance to me personally, which is a strong indicator that you need to be on the recieving end rather than a mere witness to it to be wholey convinced and converted. Psychologically you can see from this why people would get dragged into pursuing medium after medium and private readings where they can...the tantalising hint that this is real, but just not enough to settle the matter.
The one exception to recalling specific details amongst the 3 individuals he had most success with is of interest here because it involved the medium suggesting - to emphatic yeses - that the audience member in question had been experiencing spirit activity lately...that it was indeed his mother who had breathed on his neck two nights ago, that he had been hearing raps, that he had been getting dead phone calls and dialling 1471 and that was his mother responding to his requests for such signs. All of these statements came from the medium, not the man, and already holding back tears his yeses were swift and emphatic.
Verdict? As uncertain on leaving as on arriving. There was enough to be impressed by to say maybe so, maybe so...but more than enough to doubt to leave you in limbo. But interesting..
So I thought I'd recount here what it was like for those in the same position as me.. who think they've seen it but never actually have.
I'll prick the tension straight away and say no messages were delivered to me or my friends.
In total there were about 18 or 20 people in attendance besides us, several of whom were also first timers. Contrary to my expectations there were barely any white haired old dears or lonely house fraus amongst them...a few pairs of younger people were there and the largest demographic were older scruffily dressed men. At least one appeared to be a regular (he was greeted by name like Norm in Cheers) who one suspected was homeless and came in for a warm and a bit of attention. He seemed to want to put his hand up to claim any loose message going.
In terms of it being a "church", the place itself was a brightly lit hall as you'd imagine...with a dais or balcony rather than an altar. There were elements of a regular church service (2 prayers, 2 hymns, and a rattled collection box - doubt they got more than a tenner in loose change from it -- and a sort of brief sermon or homily from the guest medium) but besides the Lord's Prayer there was no reference to God or Jesus or the like. Even the hymn book included "Any Dream Will Do" from Joseph!
One odd and unexpected detail was that the man in charge was obliged to read out a disclaimer from a clipboard, like those at the end of TV psychic shows on Living...about how this is an experiment and no results can be guaranteed, no scientific claims are made etc. It stopped short only of saying the dread words "for entertainment purposes only". Presumably to avoid malicious or plain mad law suits, but it does make you wonder what would happen if the mainstream churches had to read out the same thing!
At last, the medium...
He's an invited medium, as they seemingly are each week, that's to say a different one each time doing the circuit. This one from Lancashire. He did his thing for about an hour. It pretty much consisted of I'm drawn to this side of the room or this gentleman here kind of thing...a good 3 or 4 times the individual he initially singled out struggled to agree with all he was saying (he insisted on yes or no answers) only for the person behind or next to them to say it all fit with them instead. He blamed his "aim" being off tonight. He also made a joke about envying these mediums who say they see a light over people's heads as he sees bugger all of that, and in fact doesn't believe them.
70% of his statements, I have to say, were evidentially rubbish...which is not to say untrue or inaccurate, but rather were so brazenly obvious, universal, or likely that a hit was almost inevitable and so was cynicism. Specifically the fact he nearly always was drawn to grey haired people only to ask if their father had passed on! Er... Add in lots of references to being in hospital, tender bedside vigils, difficulty breathing or heart problems before death (yeah..both stopped, Sherlock!) and "you keep a photograph/still talk to them" kind of statements...as well as character traits like sometimes stern fathers and tell-it-like-it-is mothers and my scepticism was getting a heat rash. Tellingly whenever he gave these typical older person character traits or habits (how many dead fathers used to have their own chair that no one else was allowed to sit in?) two young women a few rows in front of us, who were never the recipients, would turn to each other with a smile and a nod and whispered conversation that clearly implied "our dad/mum/uncle is just like that too"
I should repeat that the fact these things apply to "everyone" doesn't discount them from being absolutely true and coming from whom he claimed, but they were just useless as evidence. However......
One thing that the piss taker's gross caricature of these things got wrong is the idea of the medium saying "John..George..something beginning with a J.." It simply didn't happen.
For the most part he referred to people only by their relationship (Father, sister etc) but when he gave names they were singular, not in multiple variations or initials, and he didn't alter them at all. He got frustrated at the couple of hard of listening people who tried furnishing him with additional information rather than saying yes/no.
More importantly there were 3 separate individuals who, when he did "connect" to them got yes after yes after yes, as his comments went way beyond the "fits just about anyone" kind described above. Mentioning specific names, possessions, or incidents that happened two nights ago etc etc. The constant stream of yeses from the individuals in question were unhesitant and not to be confused with the "desperate for it to be me/agree with anything" types, of which there was at least one or two present. Just as impressive was the emotional response in these 3 cases as I was watching them, rather than the medium, and the dawning realisation on their part that this really was their dead whoever had them holding back very genuine tears of joy and amazement as they got apparent hit after hit.
We can't entirely rule out the possibility they were agreeing to things which weren't accurate for reasons of their own, but on the surface they appeared genuinely moved and their responses emphatic. Interestingly I can't tell you or recall what actually was said because it has no relevance to me personally, which is a strong indicator that you need to be on the recieving end rather than a mere witness to it to be wholey convinced and converted. Psychologically you can see from this why people would get dragged into pursuing medium after medium and private readings where they can...the tantalising hint that this is real, but just not enough to settle the matter.
The one exception to recalling specific details amongst the 3 individuals he had most success with is of interest here because it involved the medium suggesting - to emphatic yeses - that the audience member in question had been experiencing spirit activity lately...that it was indeed his mother who had breathed on his neck two nights ago, that he had been hearing raps, that he had been getting dead phone calls and dialling 1471 and that was his mother responding to his requests for such signs. All of these statements came from the medium, not the man, and already holding back tears his yeses were swift and emphatic.
Verdict? As uncertain on leaving as on arriving. There was enough to be impressed by to say maybe so, maybe so...but more than enough to doubt to leave you in limbo. But interesting..
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