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My UFO Experience: Feinman

feinman

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On May 14, 2010, I had a UFO experience. My stepdad was diagnosed with prostate cancer (he's okay now), and he was to get robotic surgery soon. For a week I had been traveling from Eugene, Oregon each day to work in Lake Oswego, and then driving all the way back to Eugene to stay with my parents, waking up and driving back to Lake Oswego early in the morning for work. Nothing unusual had happened until Friday, May 14... I was working an early schedule, and finished work at about 2:30 that day, iirc. I merged onto I-5 South and headed for Eugene. It was a sunny day with blue skies, and no real clouds. Near milepost 276 - 279, there are large open fields scattered with farmhouses, and one can see all the way to the mountains in front of the coast range; it's a regular and busy stretch of highway, and I don't remember ever being alone there, the thousands of times I have made the trip from Portland to Eugene. As I neared the area, I watched the car in front of me disappear into the distance --as if I had somehow slowed down, or was stuck in some kind of time warp. Everything was lush and green, and as I drove past a grove of trees on the right, I turned to look out to the distance, and.. I was confronted with five bright glowing objects. They appeared to be round and were in a slanted straight line about 15° from the horizontal. The objects were initially extremely bright (like arc lamps), but I could still look directly at them, and they had distinct edges (this is a feature of other UFO reports too). The objects were perhaps 30' in diameter. As I looked, I could see that the tops seemed to be slightly reflecting the blue sky, and I thought they were metallic spheres, or at least had a metallic object within the glow. As I watched, shocked out of my mind, they seemed to slowly become more level and it appeared as if they might be approaching my car, very slowly. Initially I moved my head back and forth to see if they were some kind of reflection --no.. Then my mind raced to another possible mundane solution; a line of fighter jets moving away from me in formation --no. There they were. I looked around to see if there were other people seeing this; though I could see farmhouses and other structures, there was an eerie silence and no one was around. I was alone on the highway for I think the first time in my life and that was equally strange.. As I realized after a few moments that I was actually seeing UFOs, and they seemed to be slowly appproaching, I became worried. I had the uncanny feeling that I was being watched by them; I've never felt anything like it before or since. Worried, I kept driving very slowly ahead and then lost them as I passed another grove of trees. Suddenly they reappeared ahead of me on I-5 (further south) in Echelon formation (just as in my avatar), this time glowing orange-red, and hanging in the sky, hovering. Then they either shot off further south or suddenly lost their luminosity (not sure which), and I couldn't see them anymore.. Then things were to get very strange indeed.

Later, arriving at my parents house, it was much later in the day than I think it should have been (almost evening). I didn't mention anything to my parents that evening, I was still in shock. The next day I did some Google searching and found out that that night was the first night of the McMinnville UFO festival; I didn't know that at the time. I'm a librarian and when I described the events to my office mate of about 20 years (now retired), he mentioned that his family owned a farm literally right next door to the Trents, and his parents knew them, as they were direct neighbors. I asked him to show me his house and the Trent farm on Google maps, so I could see where it was. It turns out that the objects I saw were coming from directly over the area of the Trent farm, as the crow flies... What is the chance of having and office mate who grew up next door to the Trents? And the McMinnville UFO festival had was beginning that night --also in the same direction.. I had no idea where McMinnville was located relative to I-5. So, when I came back to work later that month, I passed the magazine section --an the freaking Trent photo was on the front of Time magazine... It was the 50th anniversary of the photo being taken, I had no idea. Shocked me again.
After sojme Googling, I discovered that Leeroy Chiao saw the same formation fly past the ISS, though he later changed his story to "fishing boats":

s-CHIAOISSUFO-large300.jpg




Then in The UFO evidence by Hall, the same formation was seen flying in 1956 in Boulder NV:

NICAPformation.PNG

I tried for some months in vain to find corroborating evidence, or sightings, then, about three years ago, I was in one of the databases (NUFORC), randomly looking at sightings sorted by object shape, and I was looking in the "rectangle" section, and I found it...

Five months later, and 250 miles further south on the same Highway.. I think the objects were cloaked in Roseburg, hanging out over the hill, until they powered up and headed back to where they came from.


Occurred : 10/20/2010 00:10 (Entered as : 10/20/10 00:10)
Reported: 7/30/2011 6:15:29 PM 18:15
Posted: 8/7/2011
Location: Roseburg, OR
Shape: Rectangle
Duration:3 min
5 round white lights hovering over I-5.


Driving south on I-5 in Roseburg at 1205 at night I saw 5 very large round white lights in a long row floating in air about 300 feet up. They were even with top of hill and extended out of river. I could not understand what they were since it was silently hovering there. Others were pulled over on side of highway looking at it. As I got closer it started to float north above I-5. As it passed over me I could not see the stars or clouds between the lights so I believe it was a long solid object with the 5 lights. The lights did not illuminate the ground or send out a beam like a car light.

It continued to head north above the highway.

I am in law enforcement and my husband is an ex air force pilot. We have observed planes of every description as a hobby and I know that this was nothing either of us have seen before.


((NUFORC Note: Witness indicates that the date of the sighting is approximate. PD))

((NUFORC Note: Report from law enforcement officer. PD))

Sometime after my sighting I got shingles and was out for nearly a month; I attribute it to the stress from experiencing the objects.
I think about them every day --even when I don't want to.
 
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My experience was quite similar to others I eventually discovered in some of those articles. I have taken several things away from my experience, which I've suggested before:

1. These things exist on a different plane of information than we do; almost like a godlike AI. The phenomenon is capable of surgical moves to reveal themselves to certain individuals or people at certain times and places; it's like a sophisticated program that extends beyond our understanding, into planned synchronicities and other "paranormal" phenomena. Lennon's sighting is another example, but there are many. Elizondo has also suggested such things.

In my case, it was almost perfectly designed to demonstrate a number of things about "them". It seems pains were taken with me, due to the synchronicities, isolation on highway, etc. As a librarian active in a number of forums, and being interested in paranormal things, it wad a good choice, because here I am now telling you about it.. Ive made a number of presentations at the community center, and have one scheduled on the 10th, where I will present many of those old articles, I was compelled to find and show others..

2. These things are able to understand future probabilities perhaps even getting computational information from the future.

3. The Mcminnville photos are real, and that structured craft is from the same folks who created the objects I saw.

4. The devices sometimes generate ionized plasma fields that make them appear as large balls of fire or energy, but there is a device within.
 
Fascinating. Two inevitable questions arise:

1) How deeply were you into the paranormal and UFOs in particular prior to this event? (Just to be clear: I do not believe that previous interest in UFOs disqualifies a person from witnessing a UFO - anymore than having an interest in crime mean s that one can't subsequently be a witness to, or vctim of, a crime. However your interests might well have framed the way you interpreted what you saw or the way in which you subsequently recalled it).

2) You say that your sighting occured on the night of a UFO Festival. Is there any chance that what you saw could have been a promotional display for the event (lazers, drones, whatever)? Have you checked this obvious possibility?

My experience was quite similar to others I eventually discovered in some of those articles. I have taken several things away from my experience, which I've suggested before:


3. The Mcminnville photos are real, and that structured craft is from the same folks who created the objects I saw.

Here you really are jumping the gun, sir! I know that the USA is an vast country, but I can't see anything more than ordinary coincidence in the fact that - sixty odd years later - you spotted something in the same general area where that famous shot was taken. The Mcminniville photos are, as you well know, still hotly contested withing Ufology (and not only by skeptoids) and besides, as you also know, the objest in that picture did not at all resemble what you saw. Just too many leaps of assumption here!
 
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Good Questions.
1) How deeply were you into the paranormal and UFOs in particular prior to this event? (Just to be clear: I do not believe that previous interest in UFOs disqualifies a person from witnessing a UFO - anymore than having an interest in crime mean s that one can't subsequently be a witness to, or vctim of, a crime. However your interests might well have framed the way you interpreted what you saw or the way in which you subsequently recalled it).
I've always had an interest in the paranormal, occult. As far as UFOs go, I've had an interest in those too, believed they were probably real. I don't think there was a connection between my past paranormal interest and the objects that well, ambushed me. Then there is the fact that I was isolated on I-5

2) You say that your sighting occured on the night of a UFO Festival. Is there any chance that what you saw could have been a promotional display for the event (lazers, drones, whatever)? Have you checked this obvious possibility?
I don't think that's possible. I'd guess these objects were about 30' across, each one, and the amount of energy to keep them in the air and create that unearthly brightness is hard to imagine. I know what it is to be awestruck. I still am. It was outrageous. Later I was interviewed by a MUFON field investigator; she was at the festival that night and they saw nothing.
 
Here you really are jumping the gun, sir! I know that the USA is an vast country, but I can't see anything more than ordinary coincidence in the fact that - sixty odd years later - you spotted something in the same general area where that famous shot was taken. The Mcminniville photos are, as you well know, still hotly contested withing Ufology (and not only by skeptoids) and besides, as you also know, the objest in that picture did not at all resemble what you saw. Just too many leaps of assumption here!
Well, it was pretty spectacular and McMinnville as the crow flies was quite close and that's where they were initially coming from. The front of Time magazine that month, I saw later:
Time_trent_image.jpg


And, I just happened to share an office with a colleague for 20 years, who was a direct neighbor to the Trent farm. His parents knew them, they were farmers. Chances?
 
And there is the later corroborative sighting from Roseburg, I also discovered !ater.
 
It's quite story I know, but look at the articles; very similar things have happened. This would be great chance for skeptics! I'll take 10 lie detector tests, if they are paid for and made convenient. Come on, then!
 
It's quite story I know, but look at the articles; very similar things have happened. This would be great chance for skeptics! I'll take 10 lie detector tests, if they are paid for and made convenient. Come on, then!

feinman,

The echelon pattern is a commonly reported occurance in multiple disc-orb sightings and there areas of the planet that exhibit recivivistic re-appearance of craft. Hessdalen Norway is an example. In Human perspective, "Echelon" flight pattern is military. Of the 5,000 or so sighting reports that I have reviewed, a small percentage exhibited military behaviors. I determined that via the relational SQL database that I wrote in Borland Delphi in 1998 which I used to find invariants. My point is, while it is a fairly small percentage, apparently it is not rare to see organized groups of disc-orbs moving in seemingly structured military patterns. Since we don't know their social 'clime' its only a guess as to why their craft group thusly. It seems reasonable, at least to me, that that formation is likely some form of military.

Are you ex-military? I wonder why they allowed you to see them?

Re; so-called 'lie-detector' tests. That statement means you desire to prove that your story is true, which in theory would imply that there is proof that alien craft are plying our skies. Anyone with a brain knows that those craft are from some where else. As Dr. Allen 'alien' Tough once told me when I asked him why he was looking for them as he had not experienced visual contact, he said,"I see lots of smoke, but I can't see the fire. I know that they are here because I see their smoke." Dr. Tough was a member of the SETI-Institute, was also a member of the SETV (Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation) OSR (Organization for SETV Research) and was professor emeritus of psychology, affiliated with Toronto.edu.

I know that they are here, because, unlike my friend Allen, I've seen their gadgets and I've seen them.

plutronus
 
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Hi Plutronus! No, I am not ex-military. They have been seen in a variety of formations; the echelon formation being seen in '56 (above), but there are lines, rows, triangles, etc. --you know already. Sounds somewhat whackadoodle, but I think advanced visitors would have access to a world of metadata about us that would be shocking; they are playing us like a game or a piece of software. They know the repercussions / futures of events they precipitate, and they take the opportunity to reveal themselves to those who would futher their agenda. they have and continue to reveal themselves to the militaries of the world, and in a careful program of revelation to the public (because the governments have been trying to cover it up / make it seem like an earthly technology (e.g. Nazi UFOs, test craft, etc), they have a long-term program of contact with the citizens of earth too, so that while not reaching a tipping point, there is a sizeable portion of the population that believes in them or has seen them. They have also revealed themselves to pop and rock stars too, as they have sway and contact with so many people. In my case, I am an avid forum participant and librarian, and I am really getting the word out, having made a number of presentations, digging up old articles, and describing my experience to many individuals on the internet, and generally throwing it into people's faces. This IS contact. We couldn't deal with much more of it. But, the "Prime Directive" has been discarded from the beginning; I suspect that this acclimation and stepped up contact with the military is due to their calculations / knowledge that we are on a course of destruction, and they might want to save this oasis of biodiversity from destruction by dangerous simians..
 
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Hi Plutronus! No, I am not ex-military. They have been seen in a variety of formations; the echelon formation being seen in '56 (above), but there are lines, rows, triangles, etc. --you know already. Sounds somewhat whackadoodle, but I think advanced visitors would have access to a world of metadata about us that would be shocking; they are playing us like a game or a piece of software. They know the repercussions / futures of events they precipitate, and they take the opportunity to reveal themselves to those who would futher their agenda. they have and continue to reveal themselves to the militaries of the world, and in a careful program of revelation to the public (because the governments have been trying to cover it up / make it seem like an earthly technology (e.g. Nazi UFOs, test craft, etc), they have a long-term program of contact with the citizens of earth too, so that while not reaching a tipping point, there is a sizeable portion of the population that believes in them or has seen them. They have also revealed themselves to pop and rock stars too, as they have sway and contact with so many people. In my case, I am an avid forum participant and librarian, and I am really getting the word out, having made a number of presentations, digging up old articles, and describing my experience to many individuals on the internet, and generally throwing it into people's faces. This IS contact. We couldn't deal with much more of it. But, the "Prime Directive" has been discarded from the beginning; I suspect that this acclimation and stepped up contact with the military is due to their calculations / knowledge that we are on a course of destruction, and they might want to save this oasis of biodiversity from destruction by dangerous simians..

>have been seen in a variety of formations; the echelon formation
>being seen in '56 (above), but there are lines, rows, triangles, etc.

A law of the universe, --if something moves, it uses energy. As Earthians understand physics, all energy sources change states when 'used', generally transitioning from a higher state to a lower state, thusly, 'becoming used', like a battery that becomes depleted when discharged into a load. The same is true for flying-saucers. In some manner these mecha have access to a huge amount of energy as demonstrated by the intensity of the 'glowing' laminar ionization that ensheaths craft. It is also reasonable to speculate that the 3D/4D co-ordinate transit 'propulsion' system. It expends a tremendous magnitude of energy. Several papers have been written that explain craft suspension by a very energetic monopolar magnetic field, thereby opposing the planetary magnetic field and may explain the observations of craft 'skipping' along similar to rocks being skipped on a lake. Dr. Bruce Maccabee reported in the SSE journal that he investigated a forest landing 'sighting' where the trees had become polarized emitting a mono-polar magnetic field. Ad rem, the point if it is not obvious by now, these craft are very likely military, as it is the military that seems to have little concern regarding their energy usage, as military doesn't generally have to 'pay' for it. If the craft were simply visitors, somebody is 'paying' for the gas tank fill-up irregardless of how the energy is being stored/generated. Its a consumable because energy formats change state.

The patterns of craft formations irregardless of pattern is representative of some form of authoritative structure. Visitors, at least in the Earthian sense, do not adhere in group arrangements in their travels. We don't see caravans of RVs visiting France on the expressways traveling along in echelon structured formats or triangles, etc. Structured groups of craft are very likely military.

>I think advanced visitors...

The evidence is that they are not visiting in the sense of being 'new' visitors. There is information that indicate that certain alien specis have been zipping around our skies for many centuries.

I suspect that this will likely be surprising or even perhaps seem uninformed, but there is no evidence, in my opinion, that depicts that the aliens are more 'advanced' than Humans. While there is evidence that they are just as foilable as Humans are. They come to our world from somewhere else, and then crash. They die. They butcher horses, cattle and Humans. They abduct and conduct medical experiments on Humans, generally selecting our fertile females. They avoid our airport RADAR beams, and apparently may crash as result of transiting through those beams. They leave an area any time our military approaches their craft. They hide constantly from Earthian Military authorities. That does not sound too advanced to me. The information I deduce is that their technology is just very different from that of Earthian technology, and that their technology developed differently due to the manner in which they think, possibly owing to physiology differences. It is my opinion that due to that difference their technology appears to be advanced, while it is obvious that they often misunderstand the purpose of our ways of doing things as well. I can cite a few examples if anyone is interested.

>would have access to a world of metadata about us that would be shocking;

If they understand our languages the question becomes how did they do that? From up there? To intimately understand our behaviors suggests that they had to mingle with us, down in the milling throngs, eyeball to eyeball. How did they do that? No I do not think that they understand us that well. There is only so much that can be understood through monitoring radio and while, the fictional story by Carl Sagan, "Contact", depicts the Aricibo radio-astronomy scientists decyphering TV signals strictly from the sound of the signals and then magically being able to configure in facility equipment inside a few moments to display the received TV signals as a television image of the Nazis Olympic broadcast, well, that's just more Hollywood BS. And neither can the aliens do it. There are no universal Star-Trekian translators. And its only been a couple hundred years that Earth has been transmitting EMF information signals.

>they have and continue to reveal themselves to the militaries of the world
I have mixed feelings about this. Yes there is some information that certain aliens have made outright contact with US Military. In 1965 I watched a black & white local TV station documentary that reported that two White Sands Missile Proving Grounds scientists while traveling on Highway 54 in the mid 1950s enroute to WSMR, saw a flying-saucer, that hovered over the highway, whereby the scientists stopped their car. The passenger was so frightened that he hid under-neath the car (car frames in the 50s were elevated 2 ~ 3 feet from the pavement). The driver, watched as two aliens exited the landed craft, approaching the car. The driver, bravely walked out and greeted them. The scientist, being interviewed claimed that the saucer occupants desired to meet with military authorities. I watched on TV that scientist make that claim. George-Hunt Williamson, an engineer who like myself fabricated an appartus very similar to my ETp, along with Alice Bailey and others, claimed that they met with saucer occupants in 1957 who took them for a 'ride' in their saucer. Those ET were Nordics. Yet the observational evidence illustrates that currently ET evade Earth military at every instance. Perhaps, Earth Military renigged on some arrangement and now the aliens don't trust Earthian Military?

>I am really getting the word out, having made a number of presentations,
>digging up old articles, and describing my experience to many individuals on the internet,

You are one of a growing group. You also sound a bit like Richard Boylan. Perhaps you should track him down to have a chat with him. Although he has been beating the friendly ET drum since before the advent of the InterNet...cca 1987ish, and he is a multiple ET book author, he is not a snob, he'll chat with you. He believes as Dr. Steven Greer, MD, does, that ET are benevolent. I do not hold that opinion. I beleive that there are multiple specis interacting around Earth, and that each specis is promoting their own selfish agendae. I suspect that there is a hierarchy of ET, and that the top level ET do not desire other ET to interact here, which could be one reason why some ET act afraid and hide. I believe that certain ET are using Humans.

plutronus
See Dr. Richard Boylan - http://www.drboylan.com/index.html
[email protected]
 
I don't think my objects or many of the others are military. We wouldn't be studying them, trying to intercept them, fly them over airports, into civilian airlanes, and neighborhoods over every continent on the planet, etc. The takeaway from the old articles, is that the forms and behaviours of the objects haven't really changed over time, even reliably back to the 19th century. There are real UFOs; there are devices in our skies and oceans not made by humans.

I've seen Sturrock's work and others' theories about UFO propulsion systems, and I think conceptually they are probably on the right track. I think they may develop the ionization envelopes when they are powering up to move, or releasing energy after a maneuver. Some are perfectly capable of not ionizing the air, but they are sometimes seen to have an aura or field around them.

I keep hearing folks imply we would be difficult to understand and communicate with, and I just don't think so. We understand bird behavior pretty well, and if the "visitors" are much more technologically advanced, I maintain they could understand humans better than we do, even without invoking paranormal abilities such as telepathy, etc.

I'll post more a bit later about why i think they are here, and what's going on.
 
I think these objects came through here a very long time ago in a number of waves; perhaps the earliest was very early indeed. Some objects continued on, while others went into our oceans or into remote areas of the planet, cloaked, stationary, waiting. Periodically these objects conduct surveillance, de-cloaking, moving about, emerging from oceans. Initially more interactive with people, as our technology and weapons have developed, they have been monitoring things closely again.
 
I don't think there are a ton of objects here; I think many of the objects seen are the same ones over and over again, for decades or centuries, in different configurations.
 
All very interesting, feinman. You have read my UFO thread from Alaska, and I find it a fun little tidbit that I lived for a year in Eugene. nice place, I liked it. the rain annoyed me though. for some reason, I'll take snow over rain.

anyways, allow me to ask a couple questions, knowing that I am open-minded and whole-heartedly believe that you experienced something, as did I. But I very much question the ontological nature of both our experiences, as well as ufology overall.

Firstly, I have always been extremely skeptical of extraterrestrial visitors. I think its far more likely that humans built the pyramids with unknown sciences than aliens visiting them. and evidence has shown time and time again that Ufology as a study is most definitely a government disinformation game, meant to smokescreen the public regarding their black-sites and black budget technology in the sky. HOWEVER, while I think a great deal of UFO reports can be explained by this, it still begs the question: what would the government be doing up there? At first I thought they were testing their technology, but after seeing these same UFOs 7 times throughout the last few years, I can honestly say that their movements and habits don't seem to make any sense. seems very inhuman, to say the least. and it seems to conspicuous for me to think government anymore...

SO. are you familiar with the ideas of John Keel and Carl Jung, respectively? regarding UFO's their ideas overlap a bit. Having experienced several vivid and intense UFO encounters, Keel did not think they were ET, nor government. he thought they were metaphysical, and he lumped them into a field of "modern mythology" like angels and demons, etc. if we consider the metaphysical to be EM frequencies that our brains tune in and out of, perhaps we sometimes project these frequencies in a similar way that we project dreams when we sleep. and, like dreams, this doesn't not make our sightings any less relevant. rather, it throws the perspective on the subject for a loop.

Jung had these very same ideas, although he did not take it to such Fortean lengths like Keel. But even Jung admitted the archetypal, symbolic relevance of these things as similar to the common thread of mystical experiences reported throughout human history.

what if we are summoning intense, vivid "hallucinations", by projecting anomalous EM energy (perhaps even autonomous or dare I say, even sentient) like a radio broadcasts hertz waves.

rest assured, I am not throwing ET's out the window, either. i'm just trying to approach it from all angles, and using Occam's razor, ET's seem unlikely. I wonder personally if it is possible for any carbon-based life form to exist for very long outside of its atmosphere and the EM field emitted by planets. not to mention the intense radiations in space. surely, technology could theoretically account for this at some point, but this is why I remain open mindedly skeptical to the nature of these events.

what do you think? are you entirely convinced that these things are physical machinery being operated by un-earthly lifeforms?

ultimately, I suspect that the ideas of ET's and metaphysical entities are quite hard to separate, no matter how you slice the pie.

cheers!
 
I don't think my objects or many of the others are military. We wouldn't be studying them, trying to intercept them, fly them over airports, into civilian airlanes, and neighborhoods over every continent on the planet, etc. The takeaway from the old articles, is that the forms and behaviours of the objects haven't really changed over time, even reliably back to the 19th century. There are real UFOs; there are devices in our skies and oceans not made by humans.

I've seen Sturrock's work and others' theories about UFO propulsion systems, and I think conceptually they are probably on the right track. I think they may develop the ionization envelopes when they are powering up to move, or releasing energy after a maneuver. Some are perfectly capable of not ionizing the air, but they are sometimes seen to have an aura or field around them.

I keep hearing folks imply we would be difficult to understand and communicate with, and I just don't think so. We understand bird behavior pretty well, and if the "visitors" are much more technologically advanced, I maintain they could understand humans better than we do, even without invoking paranormal abilities such as telepathy, etc.

I'll post more a bit later about why i think they are here, and what's going on.
I have had my own experience witnessing a ufo and the disrespectful attitude of the squadron commander whom I was conveniently put through to when I telephoned the nearest raf base to report strange aerial phenomena was shocking! To me, it served only to make me suspect that the military do know exactly what is going on and knowledge is kept hidden from us minions. As to whether they are hostile, I can recall reading that somewhere in India (I think?) A town/village were terrorised over several days by alien crafts attacking people by firing some kind of ray at them which resulted in severe injuries and even death.
 
I have had my own experience witnessing a ufo and the disrespectful attitude of the squadron commander whom I was conveniently put through to when I telephoned the nearest raf base to report strange aerial phenomena was shocking! To me, it served only to make me suspect that the military do know exactly what is going on and knowledge is kept hidden from us minions. As to whether they are hostile, I can recall reading that somewhere in India (I think?) A town/village were terrorised over several days by alien crafts attacking people by firing some kind of ray at them which resulted in severe injuries and even death.
Tell me (us) more! I agree about what they know.. I thi k you are tbinking of Brazil's Project Saucer... Take a look in the Historic Newspaper Articles thread, and you will find more incidents like that, too.
 
The takeaway from the old articles, is that the forms and behaviours of the objects haven't really changed over time, even reliably back to the 19th century. There are real UFOs; there are devices in our skies and oceans not made by humans.

I've seen Sturrock's work and others' theories about UFO propulsion systems, and I think conceptually they are probably on the right track. I think they may develop the ionization envelopes when they are powering up to move, or releasing energy after a maneuver. Some are perfectly capable of not ionizing the air, but they are sometimes seen to have an aura or field around them.

Hi,

I've been out of the chatting loop for awhile, had multiple surgeries and while recuperating, studied technical material towards earning multiple amateur radio licenses. This month I passed the US Federal Communications Commission's 'Extra Class Amateur Radio examination. It was comprised of a 750 technical questions pool, out of which a random selection of 50 questions are taken. So one need learn all 750 questions comprised of 11 categories of regulations, safety, electronics theory, wave theory, mathematics...yada yada. It was tough but I passed with 94% on my first try. I have talked with numerous radio engineers who studied as mad men but who took the examination four or five times before passing!!

"Enough braggadacio" as my late friend Dr. Sun Yeun Wong, RADAR physicist, oft said. I miss that pal. He was a smart guy. It was he, that engineered my SETV communication experiment that all the Ph.D. SETI guys failed.

>>Feinman said
>The takeaway from the old articles, is that the forms and behaviours of
>the objects haven't really changed over time, even reliably back to the 19th century.

Dr. Jacques Vallee's book, "Demon Haunted World" paints a different picture and a conclusion that I originally disagreed with, but now that I have I experienced direct communicative contact, I am personally forced to draw a similar to Vallee's opinion. There are number of events which clearly illustrate that Humans are either misinterpreting what is actually being seen, or that ET are able to convey a 'controlled' visual message as ET deems necessary. The airship reported by House of Representatives Alexander Hamilton is a classic example. Did he actually see a multiple aliens scurering around the deck of an airship? Or was it something else, but that visual icon being the only visual artifact commonly seen in the day's press of the period? There are multiple instances of similar type reports, another was that described by Colonel Custer, while he was force marching his troops around Wyoming to Montana a few weeks before his death, in his personal diary, Col Custer detailed seeing an airship manned by "the queerist shipmen I have ever laid eyes upon". The craft was seen initially at a distance as brightly glowing "ship's lantern" floating in the sky and when close enough to see details, appeared to be a long "cigar shape airship about which were appointed with decks". I found Colonel Custers diary in a Missouri newspaper archive in 1994. It was online. Of course there are many here who will likely 'demand' to read that diary, but exactly where it is now, is relegated to one of a huge pile of old, outdated hard drives for which I no longer posess interfaces to enable operation. I have lots research material in that pile that to which I desire access. Sadly, there may be no other use other than for the disassembly effort for the powerful magnets contained therein. Long term data storage is an ongoing problem for many. In fact I had a contract with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena sometime around 1982, where I engineered a 14inch diameter glass optical disc system for long term data storage of Viking Mars Lander image data received via the Goldstone Deep Space Network. Those smartie pants have the same problem as I. It turns out that the only reliable virtually impervious to time long term storage is that of information scratched into granite!

>>feinman said
>There are real UFOs; there are devices in our skies and oceans not made by humans.

Of course there are. I too have witnessed strange, not from around here objects operating within our skies.

>>feinman said
>I've seen Sturrock's work and others' theories about UFO propulsion
>systems, and I think conceptually they are probably on the right track.

Of all the SSE associated academics he is the one person whom I most consider as being a thinly desguised skeptic.

>>feinman
>I think they may develop the ionization envelopes when they are
>powering up to move, or releasing energy after a maneuver.

This is not theory, but has been repeatedly verified through data collection by sophisticated electronic sensors. These sensors have been deployed by various Near Earth ET Studies scientists at different times which include the efforts of Massimo Theodorani (Italy), Erling Strand (Norway), Harley Rutledge (US), Eric Davis (along with Colm Kelleher of Bigelow's NIDS and recently, his BAAS. Both are US scientists), Henrique Guiterrez (Brazil), Francis Ridge (US) and numerous others. A few of the more commonly used sensors included, (surprisingly), a gas density sensor, and of course electrometers, but also magnetometers, Helmholtz coils, and returned RADAR flux. The laminar ionization is also an excellent microwave beam reflector, as noted by electronics scientist (MUFON-CES) Illobrand von Ludweiger (Germany). There are more than one strategy for measuring the amount of increased atmospheric electric potential in the presence of ET objects rather than simply chasing discs around with a camera and guessing as to why there is a 'halo' or an 'aura' seen around or behind object. It isn't majik. However some folks in their zeal, confuse luminous-orb/NLP/corpse-candles/ghost-lights, etc bi-location events with glowing 'disc-orbs'. Depending upon one's cognitive ability to remain conscious in both the Asiyah **AND** Yetzirah consciousness concurrently, determines how well some 'see' these object maneuvors. However that may be the case, the objects still do not radiate auras or halos majikly. It is still based in physics.

>>feinman said
>Some are perfectly capable of not ionizing the air, but they are sometimes seen to have an aura or field around them.
 
All very interesting, feinman. You have read my UFO thread from Alaska, and I find it a fun little tidbit that I lived for a year in Eugene. nice place, I liked it. the rain annoyed me though. for some reason, I'll take snow over rain.

anyways, allow me to ask a couple questions, knowing that I am open-minded and whole-heartedly believe that you experienced something, as did I. But I very much question the ontological nature of both our experiences, as well as ufology overall.

Firstly, I have always been extremely skeptical of extraterrestrial visitors. I think its far more likely that humans built the pyramids with unknown sciences than aliens visiting them. and evidence has shown time and time again that Ufology as a study is most definitely a government disinformation game, meant to smokescreen the public regarding their black-sites and black budget technology in the sky. HOWEVER, while I think a great deal of UFO reports can be explained by this, it still begs the question: what would the government be doing up there? At first I thought they were testing their technology, but after seeing these same UFOs 7 times throughout the last few years, I can honestly say that their movements and habits don't seem to make any sense. seems very inhuman, to say the least. and it seems to conspicuous for me to think government anymore...

SO. are you familiar with the ideas of John Keel and Carl Jung, respectively? regarding UFO's their ideas overlap a bit. Having experienced several vivid and intense UFO encounters, Keel did not think they were ET, nor government. he thought they were metaphysical, and he lumped them into a field of "modern mythology" like angels and demons, etc. if we consider the metaphysical to be EM frequencies that our brains tune in and out of, perhaps we sometimes project these frequencies in a similar way that we project dreams when we sleep. and, like dreams, this doesn't not make our sightings any less relevant. rather, it throws the perspective on the subject for a loop.

Jung had these very same ideas, although he did not take it to such Fortean lengths like Keel. But even Jung admitted the archetypal, symbolic relevance of these things as similar to the common thread of mystical experiences reported throughout human history.

what if we are summoning intense, vivid "hallucinations", by projecting anomalous EM energy (perhaps even autonomous or dare I say, even sentient) like a radio broadcasts hertz waves.

rest assured, I am not throwing ET's out the window, either. i'm just trying to approach it from all angles, and using Occam's razor, ET's seem unlikely. I wonder personally if it is possible for any carbon-based life form to exist for very long outside of its atmosphere and the EM field emitted by planets. not to mention the intense radiations in space. surely, technology could theoretically account for this at some point, but this is why I remain open mindedly skeptical to the nature of these events.

what do you think? are you entirely convinced that these things are physical machinery being operated by un-earthly lifeforms?

ultimately, I suspect that the ideas of ET's and metaphysical entities are quite hard to separate, no matter how you slice the pie.

cheers!

@Altered Boy
Pardon me for butting in...

>>Altered_Boy
>...Keel did not think they were ET, nor government. he thought they were
>metaphysical, and he lumped them into a field of "modern mythology" like
>angels and demons, etc.

Simply because John Keel beleived one way or the other, should not be taken as any form of 'evidence' as to a way something may actually be. It seems true that Keel experienced a compelling event and that some of the aspects of his reported experience does seem to have been 'paranormal', while personally compelling does not in fact validate his perception of what physically transpired. I am not saying that there wasn't a paranormal nature exhibited in the event, but rather that the physical nature of how the event transpired is something that is as yet to be engineered in Human understanding. In other words, (perhaps more clearly?), simply that Humans as yet do not understand a behavior, should not be taken automatically as being relevated within the majik domain, eg, 'spiritual', demons, AngEls, etc. As science-fiction writer Arthur C. Clark said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as being 'magic' to a lesser advanced technical society." And that is very likely the base theme in much of what Humans perceive wrt (with-relation-to) many authentic ET exhibitions.

However all that may in fact be, regarding authentic 'spiritual' or authentic majikkal ET technology exhibition elements being reported, there is likely a 'technical side' or mayb better a description, a possible engineered element in a seemingly wholly spiritual exhibition. In other words what appears to be 'demonic' or 'ghostly' or strictly spiritual exhibitions, as Humans are wont to perceive, may actually be a quasi-spiritual/technology-assisted physics. There exists in Human technical understanding an engineered 'spiritual' physics domain, which was quantifed and named by Cleve Backster as being 'psionics'. He also attributed as having coined the phrase 'psychotronics'. The two phrases are often misused by the uninformed as to the difference between the two forms. Psychotronics is relegated to the organic form of psionics, while psionics regards the 'electronic' form engineered spirtual technology.

And so by now, you may be asking, "what is the point in all of this yakking?" Edifying folks regarding the nature of the physics of psionics has and still remains a very difficult thing to do, in my experience. There are processes which Humans are capable of performing, which are extensions of consciousness. It is these processes which are described as being able to influence non-local elements of physical existence or the ability to project majik. An example of one of these processes is that of 'telepathy', which is a super-luminal, non-latency, non-local information transfer between distal domains of consciousness. How it works is outside the scope, but the fact that Humans can and have engaged in the organic or psychotronic form via millenia is central to understanding that simply because Humans can, is an indicator that there can exist a non-organic telepathic process form, eg, a 'psionic' form, an engineered process. Historically Humans (as well as likely ET specis), has mimicked nature, such as the wheel, and aircraft. Both of which are engineered forms of natural processes. Humans, recently especially, Earthian military has and is ardently developing artificial intelligence, an engineered fabric of artificial consciousness and the extension of that being psionics. It is consciousness that enables the natural Human process known as majik, and one of its extensions being telepathy. Crudely stated, in physics that process is defined as being related to non-local quantum transference of 'information'. Recently, as reported in Western world military engineering literature, the Chinese military have demonstrated a quantum 'RADAR'. As you likely know, "RADAR" decoded means, Radio Detection And Ranging", which is an electronic process that emits a beam of photons from an azimuthal and elevation calibrated antenna emitter, (beam direction & elevation) which travels near the speed of light outward until the beam is reflected from a solid object back to the antenna. The moment the beam is emitted a very fast incrementing timer is started, and when the beam returns, the timer is stopped and the time is divided by 2 times the speed of light, thusly giving the distance 'range' to the reflector object. Stealth aircraft, are engineered to prevent the beam's return, by both reflecting beam away from transmission angle and also by absorbtion of the beam photons. No signal return, the RADAR can't detect the object. However, the Chinese have circumvented that, all their beam needs do is touch the object, and quantumly the other half of photon twin, the part that remains at the antenna, senses the touch. The Chinese RADAR photon beam need not return, to detect the non-local object. While sophisticated in imlementation, this is a simple application of a psionic apparatus. Without an understanding of how quantum physics works, the process appears to be majik to uninformed technicians.

The US Military has an advanced form of artificial intelligence that is not programmatically computationally derived such as neural-nets, but rather, direct implementation of very dense integration of artificial neurons. Synthethesis of organic brain matter, which in turn create the fabric of artificial consciousness and subsequent 220Volt generation of telepathy type processes. Imagine if you will, a non-organic remote-viewer, that never needs to rest or eat or turned another way, a remote-influencer. However there is a hidden ethical pardox in this. Any conscious fabric will automatically merge as a salt-doll dissolving in a salton-sea will merge, blending, becoming aware of the noosphere, the background intelligence that pervades the universe of consciousness. Whose slave is it? When one makes a thinking thing, who owns it?

In any case, reports of apparently paranormal ET exhibitions, are very likely implementations of advanced understanding of psionics through the implementation of artificial consciousness apparti.

These guys are roughly 40 years behind the US Military development curve, but gives one a clue of what is being secretly engineered:
https://tech.fb.com/imagining-a-new-interface-hands-free-communication-without-saying-a-word/

>>Altered_Boy said
>...if we consider the metaphysical to be EM frequencies that our brains tune in
>and out of, perhaps we sometimes project these frequencies in a similar way
>that we project dreams when we sleep. and, like dreams, this doesn't not
>make our sightings any less relevant. rather, it throws the perspective on the
>subject for a loop.

Yep...quite true.

plutronus
 
^ Demon Haunted World: Science As A Candle in the Dark...was written by Carl Sagan...a science skeptic.....and not by Dr Vallee....,
...Unless you are referring to another book with a similar name.
Regarding Keel...he was known to be a 'trickster', and enjoyed playing with the edges of these things. I would take just about everything he ever said or wrote with a healthy dose of skepticism. He was indeed a 'believer' but also a writer who liked to entertain.
 
I would take just about everything he ever said or wrote with a healthy dose of skepticism. He was indeed a 'believer' but also a writer who liked to entertain.

Always difficult to separate his own mental state from the need to to earn a living.

At his most intense period, the Mothman things, I relate them to Strindberg in his Inferno phase.
 
Feinman said: "...it's a regular and busy stretch of highway, and I don't remember ever being alone there,..."

When I saw a Flying Triangle back in 1990, I too was on a heavily travelled stretch of road, stopped at the traffic light. (There are 4 lanes each way at an intersection.) When I stepped outside my car to look up at the Triangle I was so astonished, I looked around for another car to approach to ask if they saw what I was seeing, and there was no other car around. This was on an early winter evening. So there should have been multiple cars stopped at the intersection. Since then, I sort of look for another time when I've been at that same turning lane to see if I am the only one there, (in addition to the three other lanes) and it has never been that I am alone at that stop. I have always been interested in UFOs. But at that point in time, if was going to hallucinate seeing a UFO, I'm pretty sure I would "see" a saucer shaped object. I had never heard of trianglular UFOs at that point. I have looked for another Flying Triangle and never seen one since. I do think about it, probably too often.
 
When I was a teenager, 1976-77ish, my best friend and I were sitting in front of my house late one night, just talking. We both looked up and to our right at the same time and saw a formation like the one in the photos. The sky was clear, we could see stars, but the lights looked diffused, like they were shining through clouds. They were gliding along, making no sound. They glided towards and then behind a large tree to the right of us, and we jumped up and ran to the other side of the tree, but it was gone. We ran inside and locked the doors. We never really talked about it again, because she would shut me down anytime I tried to bring it up. We lost touch in later years and she has since passed away.

When I look back on it as an adult, I tend to consider that maybe it was a prototype military aircraft of some sort. We were roughly equidistant to Maxwell AFB, Alabama and Ft. Benning, GA
 
^ Demon Haunted World: Science As A Candle in the Dark...was written by Carl Sagan...a science skeptic.....and not by Dr Vallee....,
...Unless you are referring to another book with a similar name.
Regarding Keel...he was known to be a 'trickster', and enjoyed playing with the edges of these things. I would take just about everything he ever said or wrote with a healthy dose of skepticism. He was indeed a 'believer' but also a writer who liked to entertain.

Oops...good catch...you are correct re; the Dr. Sagan's book. I for some reason have always confused that book with Dr. Vallee's book, "Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults". It has occurred to me that Dr. Vallee's book would have been better titled, had he named it, "Demon Haunted World", heh.

Re; Keel, be that as it may, I personally experienced a few similar strange events that he reported during the Mothman period experience. Strange, unexplainable telephone events, only my experiences involved Reptilians, which I suspect are in some manner related to Mothman events.
 
When I was a teenager, 1976-77ish, my best friend and I were sitting in front of my house late one night, just talking. We both looked up and to our right at the same time and saw a formation like the one in the photos. The sky was clear, we could see stars, but the lights looked diffused, like they were shining through clouds. They were gliding along, making no sound. They glided towards and then behind a large tree to the right of us, and we jumped up and ran to the other side of the tree, but it was gone. We ran inside and locked the doors. We never really talked about it again, because she would shut me down anytime I tried to bring it up. We lost touch in later years and she has since passed away.

When I look back on it as an adult, I tend to consider that maybe it was a prototype military aircraft of some sort. We were roughly equidistant to Maxwell AFB, Alabama and Ft. Benning, GA

Sally,

Re; military tests, very unlikely, as for one thing, the military does test gadgets over populated areas, and then, if an article is in fact being tested, it is being done by the development contractor, not the military. Military personnel use gadgets, they do not test prototype gadgets.

plutronus
ps..retired 35 year scientific military development contractor
 
I'll mention another thing that happened probably two years later, that may or may not be a UFO or related to the event of 2010.
I was living in my house in Portland near Multnomah Village area, but up on a hill, and it got pretty dark where I lived. It was evening and I was taking the dog out in the backyard to poop. I stood there staring at the stars above, and actually thinking about the experience and wondering if I would ever experience it again, and.. Suddenly one of what appeared to be stars directly overhead moved suddenly and took off into space. It was like a reverse bolide, I guess. I watched it move away into space in a <edit> Southerly direction. It was clearly moving into space away from earth, and I watched for about two seconds as it did this.. I haven't mentioned it before, because the previous event was so bizarre, but it did happen. I first thought it could be some earthly technology like a secret defense satellite or something, but it wasn't in orbit --it was heading out into space. That is the only other possible UFO experience I have had. I used to hike a lot and have seen many meteors, but this was not one of those. I've watched meteor showers before etc. The only thing it reminds me of is one of the old articles where the evening star moved suddenly and scared folks. For your consideration. Eburacum?
 
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You recalled:

"As I neared the area, I watched the car in front of me disappear into the distance --as if I had somehow slowed down, or was stuck in some kind of time warp. Everything was lush and green, and as I drove past a grove of trees on the right, I turned to look out to the distance, and.. I was confronted with five bright glowing objects".

The only article I can find and which might be related - exact same location and time:

McMinville Courier-Express

Car carrying shipment of LSD overturns on I-5, fears that other drivers may have been affected. :reyes:

Seriously though, the first thing that resonates is your above description of something... 'disassociated' occurring, before the lights observation.

Do you reckon that's connected?

Was there a sudden sense of... 'unreality' right from the beginning?
 
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You recalled:

"As I neared the area, I watched the car in front of me disappear into the distance --as if I had somehow slowed down, or was stuck in some kind of time warp. Everything was lush and green, and as I drove past a grove of trees on the right, I turned to look out to the distance, and.. I was confronted with five bright glowing objects".

The only article I can find and which might be related - exact same location and time:

McMinville Courier-Express

Car carrying shipment of LSD overturns on I-5, fears that other drivers may have been affected. :reyes:

Seriously though, the first thing that resonates is your above description of something... 'disassociated' occurring, before the lights observation.

Do you reckon that's connected?

Was there a sudden sense of... 'unreality' right from the beginning?
It wasn't LSD. You did see the part where later that year they were seeon outside of Roseburg, too, right?
 
It wasn't LSD. You did see the part where later that year they were seeon outside of Roseburg, too, right?
Wasn't remotely serious about the acid! Yes, it's a weird one and then some.

Reminds of a case I investigated..

Shall duly delve into archives right now. :)
 
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