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Near-Death & Out-Of-Body Experiences

ReneeHSV said:
She had this experience in the 70s, must have been around 79 cause I was about 10 at the time. That was before TV shows about NDE, internet, etc.
Interesting story. Only a few years after Moody's book came out, so NDEs wouldn't have been that well-known then.
Long relegated to the realm of the paranormal, NDE burst on the scene 30 years ago when Raymond Moody, an East Coast psychiatrist, published Life After Life, examining reports of near-death experiences -- a term Moody coined.
Yes, "Very interesting stuff"!
 
Near Death Experience - Child

Hi All,
This near-death expereince happened to our son when he was two years old (he's now in highschool).

I had taken our son (J) for his 2 year old check up and vaccinations. He had an immediate reaction to the Diptheria/Pertussis/Tetinas (sp?) combo vaccine (also know as the DPT). I was a young mom, and when the nurse said this was no big deal, I just took him home.

Within 24 hours, J had a bad seizure, vomitted and choked on it. Waking up from a dead sleep in the morning to this happening (J was sleeping with us) hubby called 911, and I did the heimlic maneuver and CPR on our son. He had stopped breathing and was completely gray. I got him breathing about 5 minutes afterwards. The EMTs came and transported him to the hospital. He stayed in hospital for a day, and was sent home.

Because J was so young, we were very careful not to let him know the severity of what had happened (we just told him he had the flu) and how this whole episode upset all of us. We tried to act like everything was normal. A few weeks later, I was getting J ready for a nap, reading to him and snuggling on the couch.

He looked over at me and said, "Mommy, I died."
I said, "Huh?"
J said, "I died. But a big man, the biggest man, was with me at a big lake of water. He said, "Your mommy and daddy love you and you need to be with them. Go home now!"
Totally shocked, I said, "Really?"
J said, "Yes. I was afraid of the man, because he was so big, so I went home."
I asked J, "But was he a nice man?"
J said, "Yes, I think so. But he was scary because he was so big."

Not knowing what else to say. I just went back to reading to him. When he fell asleep, I called our church and told the pastor (a family friend and someone really good with kids) what happened, and asked what I should do next. He told me to act as if nothing has happened and just be ready to listen if J wanted to talk about it again -- but not try to get additional information about his NDE. The pastor said he wasn't suprised, that children often remember NDE experiences, and that they forget them as they get older.

J subsequently forgot about his NDE. But we'll never forget it -- and we are so glad "the big man" sent him home! :D

JandZmom
 
Wow, first of all please accept my empithy. I know it happened a while ago but I know the shock stays with you. How flippin scary.
I wonder if the 'big man' your child saw was an angel? I've read about angel sightings and they're always described as huge (8Ft + in some cases). I belive your child as what youngster, especialy a two y/o, has any conception of death or dying?
 
akaWiintermoon said:
Wow, first of all please except my empithy. I know it happened a while ago but I know the shock stays with you. How flippin scary.
I wonder if the 'big man' your child saw was an angel? I've read about angel sightings and they're always described as huge (8Ft + in some cases). I belive your child as what youngster, especialy a two y/o, has any conception of death or dying?

I love to hear children's accounts of NDE's!

A few years ago in my local paper was an article about a local woman who was out driving with her small son. It was winter ( near Christmas I think), she went across a slippery bridge, the car lost control and went right over and down a steep embankment. The car flipped over and came to rest on a beach.

The mother was killed in the crash, but the boy was thrown from the car and landed on the beach, but not seriously hurt. I think it was a day before anyone found them.

Once the boy was in hospital and reunited with his remaining family he told them two people came across the water and stayed with him on the very cold dark beach and kept him company until rescuers came.

:)
Edited to add link to this article:

http://web.tiscali.it/AMPUPAGE/todd.txt
 
NDE child

Hi Janzmom.

I can imagine how your son's revelation would come as a shock... but how reassuring at the same time, do you not think?

I agree with the other respondents - sounds like an angel to me :D
 
We think that it was one of three possibilities of who he might have seen -- an angel, God or someone from my side of the family that had already past, as I have had some really tall people on my side (I had an uncle that was almost 7 feet tall.)

But we still don't get his being at a "big lake" part. Again, worried for his emotional, developmental, and mental health, I didn't probe on the experience. Everyday, we were looking for signs that the little guy had some sort of brain damage from the seizure and lack of oxygen.

On a related note, I do believe that my children have had some sort of unseen protection -- I believe that they have angels and God watching over them.

JandZmom
 
jandzmom said:
We think that it was one of three possibilities of who he might have seen -- an angel, God or someone from my side of the family that had already past, as I have had some really tall people on my side (I had an uncle that was almost 7 feet tall.)

But we still don't get his being at a "big lake" part. Again, worried for his emotional, developmental, and mental health, I didn't probe on the experience. Everyday, we were looking for signs that the little guy had some sort of brain damage from the seizure and lack of oxygen.

On a related note, I do believe that my children have had some sort of unseen protection -- I believe that they have angels and God watching over them.

JandZmom

That's interesting, J.....do you have further evidence that they have angels watching over them besides the NDE?
 
I forgot to add this thought about the big lake:

With the thousands and thousands of reports of NDE's, you often hear and read about what heaven looks like. I suppose it is possible that if your child had been there and then returned to here, he could have seen a magnificent body of water there. Maybe that was the big lake.
 
Redhead666 said:
jandzmom said:
We think that it was one of three possibilities of who he might have seen -- an angel, God or someone from my side of the family that had already past, as I have had some really tall people on my side (I had an uncle that was almost 7 feet tall.)

But we still don't get his being at a "big lake" part. Again, worried for his emotional, developmental, and mental health, I didn't probe on the experience. Everyday, we were looking for signs that the little guy had some sort of brain damage from the seizure and lack of oxygen.

On a related note, I do believe that my children have had some sort of unseen protection -- I believe that they have angels and God watching over them.

JandZmom

That's interesting, J.....do you have further evidence that they have angels watching over them besides the NDE?

As far as hard evidence...no. I've never seen an angel or God or any other spirit (although I think I would be open to that.) But my children have been in other life or death situations where I believe that someone was watching over them. You've heard about J's experience, and here are Z's experiences:

Z was a toddler (almost 3), getting into things and escaping the house if he wasn't being watched closely at all times. I was alone with both boys, and J was getting sick in the upstairs bathroom -- I was helping J, and turned my back on Z, who promptly unlocked the door and let himself out of the house, and out onto the side road next to our little townhouse where a neighbor had parked his big motorcycle. I had heard the door slam, so I ran down the stairs and out the door to see Z as he pulled this motorcycle down onto himself. I must've let out a bloodcurdling scream, and another mother ran out of her house and together we lifted this huge motorcyle off my son. I expected the worst. Z wasn't even crying, and after a trip to the hospital to check him out, had no bumps, bruises or broken bones.

Another example:
Hubby and I were asleep. He is a "dead to the world" sleeper. He said he felt someone shake him to wake him up, and once awake, decided to check on the boys. He saw Z laying half off his bed, and went to tuck him back in, and realized there was something wrong. Our son, had been seizing for two hours and was minutes from death (according to tests later taken at the hospital.) The doctor told us if my hubby had not woken up and found Z, our son would've been dead in the morning, and we never would have known what had happened to him.

Yes, we've had some very scary things happen. Thank God, someone has been watching over us.
 
Redhead666 said:
I forgot to add this thought about the big lake:

With the thousands and thousands of reports of NDE's, you often hear and read about what heaven looks like. I suppose it is possible that if your child had been there and then returned to here, he could have seen a magnificent body of water there. Maybe that was the big lake.
According to the press report, the car crashed onto a beach on the Bay of Fundy, so would have been by the sea.

However, FWIW, this area has the highest tidal range in the world, so depending on the state of the tide and the steepness of the beach, the water could have been a long way off.
 
rynner said:
Redhead666 said:
I forgot to add this thought about the big lake:

With the thousands and thousands of reports of NDE's, you often hear and read about what heaven looks like. I suppose it is possible that if your child had been there and then returned to here, he could have seen a magnificent body of water there. Maybe that was the big lake.
According to the press report, the car crashed onto a beach on the Bay of Fundy, so would have been by the sea.

However, FWIW, this area has the highest tidal range in the world, so depending on the state of the tide and the steepness of the beach, the water could have been a long way off.

Sorry rynner, you misunderstood me. In the above quote where i refer to the big lake, I was talking about jandzmom's experience. She said her child told her about seeing a big lake.

In the newspaper article, yes the car crashed on a beach..i know because it happened near where I live, but that is not the big lake I was referring to. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
To believe it was angels you'd have to believe in God. Fair enough, but I'm inclined to think NDEs are our subconscious minds way of dealing with traumatic events and getting us through them.
 
jandzmom said:
....But we still don't get his being at a "big lake" part....

I've known several people who had NDE's and found themselves at a big river or lake... in the ancient days it was called the river Styx: "This river Styx served as a crossroads where the world of the living met the world of the dead".

From about.com: The Styx is one of the five rivers of the Underworld, in Greek mythology.

It's odd that people seem to have a river or lake in their NDE, even though it's not a part of our modern culture, and even when they never heard of greek mythology.
 
hokum6 Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject:

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To believe it was angels you'd have to believe in God. Fair enough, but I'm inclined to think NDEs are our subconscious minds way of dealing with traumatic events and getting us through them.

Not necessarily so. I know a reasearcher at Southampton Uni was running a study on NDEs, I saw him talk about it once on a tv programe. I will do some research and try and find a link. Anyways, I've read a lot on NDEs and it seams aithists are privvy to them too are are more likely to become religous/spiritual after their experiance.
Also, by whatever name your give them, angel, spirit guide, ect, a lot of people and religons belive in them with out beliving in God, or the God portrayed in the bible.
Kind of a mixed response there so I hope you get the gyst of what I was aiming for! :D
 
Not necessarily so. I know a reasearcher at Southampton Uni was running a study on NDEs, I saw him talk about it once on a tv programe. I will do some research and try and find a link. Anyways, I've read a lot on NDEs and it seams aithists are privvy to them too are are more likely to become religous/spiritual after their experiance.

Not surprising, people change when they go through a traumatic experience and need a way to deal with what they've seen.

Also, by whatever name your give them, angel, spirit guide, ect, a lot of people and religons belive in them with out beliving in God, or the God portrayed in the bible.
Kind of a mixed response there so I hope you get the gyst of what I was aiming for! :D

Yeah I know what you mean, every culture has a different name for the same thing. I still think the most likely explanation is that people are seeing what makes them comfortable. Whether that happens to be angels, spirits or flying spaghetti monsters what they see is going to change depending on social background, upbringing and their culture.
 
I've read though that some people's NDEs involve visions of Hell rather than Heaven, so the idea of them seeing a comforting vision doesn't really apply to them.
 
hokum6 said:
To believe it was angels you'd have to believe in God. Fair enough, but I'm inclined to think NDEs are our subconscious minds way of dealing with traumatic events and getting us through them.

This could be a great explanation for NDE's, except for one flaw: There are many, many reports of people having an NDE and they leave their body, float upwards and can see things not visible from the ground. When they are revived, they correctly relate what they saw. I don't think our subconcious can do that.

This same response applies to all those who claim that NDE's occur when we don't receive enough oxygen and our brain begins to die. Skeptics will say during this process we "think" we see heaven, and God and bright lights and tunnels and dead loved ones, when in reality we do not, and it is just misfirings in the brain.
I would believe that except for the "floating away from the body and seeing real things that may only be visible from a high vantage point" theory. This occurence has been well documented many times over.
 
Links?

I've read though that some people's NDEs involve visions of Hell rather than Heaven, so the idea of them seeing a comforting vision doesn't really apply to them.

Fair point. What about then, if people see what they expect to see when they die. One of my theories about a heaven, afterlife, whatever you want to call it, is that you end up where ever you expect to end up. Your subconcious is judge, jury and executioner. If you're guilty about something and genuinely worried about going to hell, then boyo, it's time to pack the asbestos underpants. I have no evidence of this at all, natch, I just love the idea that there's a hell full of god-fearing fundamentalists (of any religion, I'm not attacking Christianity) while all the atheists and hippies are chillin' in their own personal Shangri-La.
 
Raymond Moody's 'Life After Life' in 1975 described people's experiences of having apparently visited a Paradise-like place while they were being revived after being believed dead.

Dr. Maurice Rawlings of Tennessee however found that many patients had a hell-like vision instead of the peaceful ones documented by Moody.
His book is called Beyond Death's Door.

Dr. Charles Garfield of San Francisco found that of 72 patients he interviewed, 14 had 'Paradise' NDEs and 8 had 'lucid visions of a demonic or nighmarish nature.'

Garfield, unlike Moody and Rawlings, believed that the NDE is a physiological process and did not indicate proof of life after death.

All this comes from D. Scott Rogo's 'Life After Death: the case for survival of bodily death', Thorsons, 1986.

I agree that it seems likely that we have our own idea of the afterlife - heaven, hell, nirvana, chillin' wit' da crew, whatever - and perhaps we see what we expect to.

NDEs deserve to be taken seriously. I know whereof I speak.

Edit - found a reference on the 'net. Quite scary.
http://www.grmi.org/renewal/Richard_Riss/evidences2/27nde.html
 
Yeah, interesting stories.
I'm not inclined to believe anything from a site called 'Proof God Exists' that lists one of its sources as the Bible. :)
 
Yeah, I've seen that already.
I could accept that NDEs are some genuine paranormal experience, but it's not like we'll ever get definitive proof unless someone can deliberately induce them (a la Flatliners) and then set-up an experiment.
 
I think the name of a website is quite irrelevant. You wanted links to stories where people claimed to have risen up out of their bodies during an NDE and saw things not visible from below...and that is what I presented.

The site could have been called "Hokumishard toconvince.com", but it wouldn't make it any less credible.
 
That would be a kick-ass name.

I wasn't being serious, btw. :)
 
I've read excepts from a book about NDE's in blind people. They sound amazing. I tried to get the book but its only available in America so I'm waiting for a second hand copy to come up on a book site.

One woman blind from birth didn't know what things were by the sight of them and it was only as she described what she'd seen when able to see herself on the table that others recognised what she was talking about. she was even able to describe the nurses and doctors who'd worked on her. I mean how could she have described these people so well down to the freckles and square spectacles and colour of eyes etc unless she's seen it from the soul? The book includes NDE's from blind children also. It's made me look forward to death.

I also read a book about bad NDE's and I was so disturbed that I made my agnostic brother swear on my life that if he ever found himself dying he would pray to Jesus/God to save him and protect him...JUST IN CASE :shock: He thinks I'm a lunatic, of course, but I pointed out that since he had nothing to lose he should do it for my own peace of mind so he solemnly swore to remember to do it.

I'd encourage you all to do the very same :shock:
 
I had a NDE just after I gave birth to my second son. I was losing a lot of blood, and they didn't know where from (the thought it was from my uterus as is usually the case in post-partum haemorrages, but I had actually burst an artery) so they couldn't stop the bleeding.

I didn't rise from my body or see a tunnel. I didn't feel as though I was in my body, but wasn't aware of being out of it either (sounds strange, I know). I just felt such a strong sense of peace and happiness. Imagine the most relaxed state you've ever been in and multiply it by a million and it wouldn't come close - it was beyond beautiful. I turned to my (now ex) husband and said "I'm going to die now. Look after the boys". I wasn't scared at all. A nurse shouted that they were "losing" me, and the doctor who was trying to stop the bleeding shouted "Where's the baby? Bring me the baby!". The next thing he was holding my son in front of my face shouting "Look at the baby! Look at him!!" I didn't want to look because somehow I just knew if I looked at him I'd live, and I wanted to die because it felt so nice. After a few seconds I did look at him, and instantly I became properly concious again, and knew I was going to be okay.

My experience doesn't prove anything about life after death, but it has given me so much respect for the power of the mind, and the will to live. If that doctor hadn't have done what he did I wouldn't be sat here typing this. Plus, I'm no longer scared of death.
 
Ronson8 said:
I think when the end comes thats it, I dont think we get reborn, there has never been any definitive evidence of life after death and why do people worry about it, just human nature I guess.

But has there ever been any evidence of there not being life after death??
We cant dismiss things out of hand because there is no evidence for their existence,who knows what will be proved in the future ;)
 
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