PeteS

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I don't think the intent necessarily has to be sexual - I suspect there are people out there who simply get off on the sense of power involved in removing function from another individual. There are also cases of spiking being used to undermine the reputation of bars and restaurants etc. (In fact, my old boss was spiked while out for a meal in central London some years ago. He has asthma - which may have exacerbated the issue - and actually ended up hospitalised, and although tests proved the presence of some nastiness or other, the police could not go much further than telling him that they believed the attack was part of a war between rival restaurants.)

Also, I believe that the spiking individuals for sexual purposes tends to take place in more intimate spaces - where an individual has been invited back to someone's home, house parties, hotels, etc. And you can see - from a purely practical standpoint - why that is likely to be the case.
I must admit that this was the first thing that occurred to me- rival owners scaring away punters. I doubt also whether the true nutcases will need or want any special knowledge of how to inject something, they'll do it anyway, just because. That's assuming of course that this stuff is actually happening and there doesn't seem to be much reliable evidence of this.
 

catseye

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Oh I absolutely believe in drink spiking. But I also know how easy it is to lose track of what you are drinking, and it only takes a couple of 'let's make it a double, eh?' from someone thinking they are being funny, for things to go very wrong very fast.
 

CarlosTheDJ

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Oh I absolutely believe in drink spiking. But I also know how easy it is to lose track of what you are drinking, and it only takes a couple of 'let's make it a double, eh?' from someone thinking they are being funny, for things to go very wrong very fast.

For my 21st birthday my mates thought it would be funny/generous of them to add a shot of vodka to every pint of lager they bought me.

The first hour or two was grand and then I remember nothing until I woke up the next day.

It didn't appear as though anything untoward went on and apparently I was a great laugh all night...but... scary enough for a big hairy bloke like me, but must be terrifying if you're smaller and more attractive.
 

catseye

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People are reporting 'stinging sensations' and taking this as evidence that they've been injected... I frequently suffer from 'phantom stings and bites', where I am convinced that a wasp has got trapped in my clothing or that something has settled on me and bitten me. I'm particularly sensitive to horse fly bites (they blister) and have been known to swear that I'm being bitten when there is absolutely no evidence of biting or stinging insects - I guess my vigilence about keeping horse flies at bay makes me over-cautious.

The stinging sensation abates, there is no sign of a bite or sting and I usually forget about it in a matter of minutes. It seems to be an over-stimulation of nerves, perhaps from clothing rubbing or even just sweat. But if I were in a crowded nightclub, people brushing past me every two seconds, sweaty, itchy... and I felt this burning, stinging sensation, I can see how I could attribute it to having been injected with something, as it's a very similar feeling.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening, and I KNOW that women have a very real cause to be wary in such environments (in fact, in almost any environment). But concealing a prepped syringe and then managing to get it out, take the protective cover off the needle and inject it into a part of the body that is fleshy enough for it not to bounce off bone, then 'disappear' the apparatus where it won't be seen or felt in your clothing - it's not as easy as all that.
 

PeteS

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People are reporting 'stinging sensations' and taking this as evidence that they've been injected... I frequently suffer from 'phantom stings and bites', where I am convinced that a wasp has got trapped in my clothing or that something has settled on me and bitten me. I'm particularly sensitive to horse fly bites (they blister) and have been known to swear that I'm being bitten when there is absolutely no evidence of biting or stinging insects - I guess my vigilence about keeping horse flies at bay makes me over-cautious.

The stinging sensation abates, there is no sign of a bite or sting and I usually forget about it in a matter of minutes. It seems to be an over-stimulation of nerves, perhaps from clothing rubbing or even just sweat. But if I were in a crowded nightclub, people brushing past me every two seconds, sweaty, itchy... and I felt this burning, stinging sensation, I can see how I could attribute it to having been injected with something, as it's a very similar feeling.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening, and I KNOW that women have a very real cause to be wary in such environments (in fact, in almost any environment). But concealing a prepped syringe and then managing to get it out, take the protective cover off the needle and inject it into a part of the body that is fleshy enough for it not to bounce off bone, then 'disappear' the apparatus where it won't be seen or felt in your clothing - it's not as easy as all that.
Just as a bit of an aside horse fly bites can be horrendous to some. A few weeks ago, on a sunny day out in the countryside Ms P got 10 of them. Overnight her legs and arms swelled horrendously. Turned away by doctor's surgery, local NHS walk in center, 111 call center, she had no option but to go to A &E - no help, but fortunately small injuries clinic suggested Pirotin. Worked very quickly.
 

Nosmo King

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Just as a bit of an aside horse fly bites can be horrendous to some. A few weeks ago, on a sunny day out in the countryside Ms P got 10 of them. Overnight her legs and arms swelled horrendously. Turned away by doctor's surgery, local NHS walk in center, 111 call center, she had no option but to go to A &E - no help, but fortunately small injuries clinic suggested Pirotin. Worked very quickly.
I was working out side, many years ago, making planter in the shape of a half sized vintage Ford tractor, a horse fly bit me on the arm and it was like I'd had an electric shock, the lump remained for months, a few minutes later a horse Fly landed on my leg, so I swatted it with what was in my hand, which was a thin strip of wood, what I failed to remember was that there was a nail sticking out of it, which embedded in my thigh, I missed the fly and had a puncture wound for my troubles as well.

I'll dig a photo of the planter out if anyone interested :)
 

eburacum

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I am deeply dubious re any reports of "drink spiking" (snip)
Well, this smallish study broadly supports that skepticism. In a sample of 67 suspected cases there were only 2 actual cases of detectable, unsolicited sedatives. That is obviously very bad, but it suggests most incidents of 'spiking' are really cases of excess alcohol. Note that someone who plies an innocent party with overstrong drinks can be just as culpable as someone who uses other drugs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2750925/
 
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hunck

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Im unhappy about the BBC being irresponsible enough to promote this nonsense
Good grief. Have you checked other news sources recently? They’re all covering it. So are radio stations.

You think the BBC should just ignore it?
 

catseye

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I guess anything that raises awareness of what can happen to women who find themselves under the influence of ANYTHING, whether illicitly administered or self adminstered, is good. Particularly when nobody has been socialising much for the last two years.
 

Nosmo King

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On BBC breakfast this morning another 2 young women on talking about needle spiking, still only anecdotal evidence presented, one, a petition organiser of the 'girls night in' protest said "I have spent a lot of time on social media reading about needle attacks on women in clubs", now this is a start, and only a start in gathering information to form an opinion, unfortunately she doesn't go on to do any proper research. I notice that these 'girls night in' club boycotts are organised for Wednesday and Thursday night, I would ask, if it was a serious issue, why not Friday and Saturday nights, surely the busiest nights of the week in clubs and bars, maybe this would impinge on their social life too much.
 

maximus otter

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On BBC breakfast this morning another 2 young women on talking about needle spiking, still only anecdotal evidence presented, one, a petition organiser of the 'girls night in' protest said "I have spent a lot of time on social media reading about needle attacks on women in clubs", now this is a start, and only a start in gathering information to form an opinion, unfortunately she doesn't go on to do any proper research. I notice that these 'girls night in' club boycotts are organised for Wednesday and Thursday night, I would ask, if it was a serious issue, why not Friday and Saturday nights, surely the busiest nights of the week in clubs and bars, maybe this would impinge on their social life too much.

Surely clubs admit women for half price on Wednesdays and Thursdays purely to drum up more mid-week business (by trying to lure in more men), therefore women staying away on those nights will hit clubs disproportionately hard. ln response to an (IMHO) non-existent threat.

maximus otter
 
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Spookdaddy

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...boycotts are organised for Wednesday and Thursday night, I would ask, if it was a serious issue, why not Friday and Saturday nights, surely the busiest nights of the week in clubs and bars, maybe this would impinge on their social life too much.

Wednesdays and Thursdays are often student nights - I think this may be their thinking.
 

PeteS

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I guess anything that raises awareness of what can happen to women who find themselves under the influence of ANYTHING, whether illicitly administered or self adminstered, is good. Particularly when nobody has been socialising much for the last two years.
That's true of course, but the other side of the coin is that some women, reading all the press reports, won't do anything for fear of being murdered by the Police/injected/spiked.
 

Nosmo King

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Wednesdays and Thursdays are often student nights - I think this may be their thinking.
This maybe true, but the majority of a clubs trade will be done on a Friday and Saturday night, when the drinks/entry arent cheap to encourage students who are notoriously skint, if the clubs were boycotted Fri/Sat it would hit the clubs pockets a lot harder, unless of course, it is only the students who are boycotting, in which case the clubs wont give a crap, they will just end up not opening on student nights and all students will suffer. The woman on the news this morning said she wants clubs to search patrons on entry, in my experience clubs have always searched patrons on entry.
 

maximus otter

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I've just done two minutes' Googling on anaesthesiology in the UK. To qualify to be able to reduce someone to a trance-like state or unconsciousness in the UK - without killing them - requires:

1. You become a fully-trained doctor (four or five years' training).

2. You then undergo two further years of rotations through various specialities.

3. If you choose anaesthesiology as your speciality, "The training program in the United Kingdom currently consists of three years of core training and four years of higher training."

- Yet we are expected to believe that perverts are able to sidle up to a girl in a bar, and administer the precise dose of the exact substance required to reduce her to a compliant state, yet not stop her breathing?

Yeah, riiight...

maximus otter
 

Nosmo King

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I've just done two minutes' Googling on anaesthesiology in the UK. To qualify to be able to reduce someone to a trance-like state or unconsciousness in the UK - without killing them - requires:

1. You become a fully-trained doctor (four or five years' training).

2. You then undergo two further years of rotations through various specialities.

3. If you choose anaesthesiology as your speciality, "The training program in the United Kingdom currently consists of three years of core training and four years of higher training."

- Yet we are expected to believe that perverts are able to sidle up to a girl in a bar, and administer the precise dose of the exact substance required to reduce her to a compliant state, yet not stop her breathing?

Yeah, riiight...

maximus otter
And that doesn't even explain where these alleged 'spikers' are obtaining the drug in which to facilitate this state.
 

Spookdaddy

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And that doesn't even explain where these alleged 'spikers' are obtaining the drug in which to facilitate this state.

With the qualification that I'm not entirely convinced by the current panic, I'm not sure that would necessarily be a huge mystery - legal and illegal drugs are bought and sold every hour of every day of the year. I dare say that if there's a market for it, someone will steal it, or make it, and then sell it on.
 

Nosmo King

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With the qualification that I'm not entirely convinced by the current panic, I'm not sure that would necessarily be a huge mystery - legal and illegal drugs are bought and sold every hour of every day of the year. I dare say that if there's a market for it, someone will steal it, or make it, and then sell it on.
I totally agree with you about the availability of legal/ illegal drugs, however, I refer you to my post from Sunday regarding this

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/needle-panics.607/post-2120236
 

catseye

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I've been over on Reddit where, forgive me chaps, the posting age is generally lower and the demographic is of the....ahem...somewhat younger persuasion. I expected young women of Reddit to be fully up in arms about this. However, even over there the general tone seems to be that this is an urban myth.

I'm not ruling out that some pervs may be getting off on pricking women with needles to worry or upset them, but carrying a concealed syringe is a lot harder than you'd think, so I wonder if they've just got sewing needles they are using to achieve the 'small prick' feeling...?
 

Spookdaddy

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...I'm not ruling out that some pervs may be getting off on pricking women with needles to worry or upset them, but carrying a concealed syringe is a lot harder than you'd think, so I wonder if they've just got sewing needles they are using to achieve the 'small prick' feeling...?

I did half wonder - referring back to something I said a bit back - if actual acts of piquerism might have been misinterpreted and could have set the whole ball rolling.

I'm only throwing this out there as passing thought, but I could actually entertain the scenario that events around one man in one nightclub, exercising a form of paraphilia with which the wider public are maybe not so familiar, might act as the springboard for a much wider panic - especially given the specific circumstances and anxieties of the moment.
 

catseye

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I did half wonder - referring back to something I said a bit back - if actual acts of piquerism might have been misinterpreted and could have set the whole ball rolling.

I'm only throwing this out there as passing thought, but I could actually entertain the scenario that events around one man in one nightclub, exercising a form of paraphilia with which the wider public are maybe not so familiar, might act as the springboard for a much wider panic - especially given the specific circumstances and anxieties of the moment.
And if we add in the effect of alcohol on a group who may not have been used to 'social drinking' on the scale that students often indulge in, I can very easily see how feeling a weird sensation may cause a victim to 'suddenly realise' that she's feeling woozy, sick, off-balance and not in full control of herself. A little like the 'cold air' effect on drunkeness.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I reckon "nightclub needle attacks" is something of a misnomer, given that the majority of such alleged incidents have occurred at unregulated house-parties (according to report on BBC Radio 5 Live just now).
 

maximus otter

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Didn't Springheeled Jack also have a 'thing' for assaulting women? Or am I imagining that?

By breathing noxious gases at them, allegedly. Perhaps that's next, now?

"I was out clubbing after 12 pints, and a man huffed on me. I woke up behind a skip with my chuddies round my ankles..."

:rofl:

maximus otter
 

PeteS

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With the qualification that I'm not entirely convinced by the current panic, I'm not sure that would necessarily be a huge mystery - legal and illegal drugs are bought and sold every hour of every day of the year. I dare say that if there's a market for it, someone will steal it, or make it, and then sell it on.
Stealing from hospitals, nursing homes and the like is not wholly unknown, according to my resident health care expert. It will be discovered on audit, but proving who the culprit is, is the problem.
 

Nosmo King

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Stealing from hospitals, nursing homes and the like is not wholly unknown, according to my resident health care expert. It will be discovered on audit, but proving who the culprit is, is the problem.
I'll just post this again.

Professor Atholl Johnston, President of the Clinical Contract Research Association and pharmacologist and toxicologist at St George’s University London, said: ‘I know of no drug that could be randomly injected into a person that would work instantly.’

John Slaughter, senior forensic toxicologist at ASI Bioanalytics, said it was unlikely that a needle would be in the skin for ‘long enough to have such a pharmacological effect’."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ghtclub-needle-attacks-highly-improbable.html
 

Victory

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I'm not a doctor, but let's look at the case of the above mentioned Georgi Markov.

"On 7 September 1978, Markov walked across Waterloo Bridge spanning the River Thames and waited to take a bus to his job at the BBC. While at the bus stop, he felt a slight sharp pain, as a bug bite or sting, on the back of his right thigh. He looked behind him and saw a man picking up an umbrella off the ground. The man hurriedly crossed to the other side of the street and got in a taxi which then drove away.

When he arrived at work at the BBC World Service offices, he noticed a small red pimple had formed at the site of the sting he had felt earlier and the pain had not lessened or stopped. He told at least one of his colleagues at the BBC, Theo Lirkov, about this incident.[16] That evening he developed a fever and was admitted to St James' Hospital in Balham, where he died four days later, on 11 September 1978, at the age of 49."


I was never sure why Markov needed to take a bus from Waterloo Bridge to his office (Bush House, unless someone knows otherwise?) when the walk would be 10 minutes?

For timescale:

I will conservatively allow:

10 minutes to wait for the bus.
8 minutes for the bus to cross Waterloo Bridge, turn right into the Aldwych, then stop opposite Bush House (1978 rush hour traffic levels).
7 minutes to cross the Adwych, get through BBC security and get into the office.

It makes 25 minutes between being injected and a pimple forming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov
 
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