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Needle Panics

Nosmo King said:
...Professor Atholl Johnston, President of the Clinical Contract Research Association and pharmacologist and toxicologist at St George’s University London, said: ‘I know of no drug that could be randomly injected into a person that would work instantly.’

John Slaughter, senior forensic toxicologist at ASI Bioanalytics, said it was unlikely that a needle would be in the skin for ‘long enough to have such a pharmacological effect’."...
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I totally agree that any actual spiking involved is more likely to have been administered by drink, rather than by needle. However, I’m not sure I buy the reasoning behind the idea that because something most likely wouldn't work, people therefore wouldn't try it. There's no doubt that if the alleged actions were an effective means to an end, then some pervert would find a way to do it. But I also have no doubt that even if it were not an effective means to that end, some pervert would still give it a go. A thorough understanding of the processes involved may be a prerequisite for an effective criminal - but the general spectrum contains a very much broader set than that.

Admittedly - given what I actually think about the current panic - I'm playing devil's advocate more than a little here, but it's my understanding that most of the alleged victims describe the needle sensation, and then feeling a bit weird afterwards - rather than being rendered completely unconscious. This does not actually exclude the idea that someone might have tried to inject them with something, because, to reiterate - something not working does not in itself exclude the possibility that someone will still try. (And the 'bit weird afterwards' thing could simply be a response to an unfamiliar sensation)
 
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Spookdaddy said:
…I also have no doubt that even if it were not an effective means to that end, some pervert would still give it a go.
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Amen. Pervs and crims are just as much of a mixed-ability group as the general population, and just as susceptible to bullshit ULs.

See also - for just one example - “smoking banana peels gets you high, man!”

I’d bet that if we started a UL about blue Smarties containing a “date-rape drug”, within days girls would be staring in bemusement at the azure croutons bobbing about in their Porn Star Martinis.

maximus otter
 
Oh yes, start a rumour about something and SOMEBODY's going to give it a try. But to this extent? All over the country? Maybe one weird person with an imperfect understanding of the subject....

Talking of which, there seems to have been a LOT of conflation. 'Spiking' to mean illicit drink drugging seems now to be the common word, and a lot of people are thinking 'to be spiked' means to be injected. So we're getting a rash of people saying 'oh yes, I was spiked at such and such a place' (whether they actually were or not is up for debate, but they mean their drink was nobbled) and listeners are taking it to mean 'I was injected'. So the case for injections seems to be way higher than it may, in fact, be.
 
catseye said:
Oh yes, start a rumour about something and SOMEBODY's going to give it a try. But to this extent? All over the country?
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Panics sweep the country. The one that comes immediately to my mind is Bogus Social Workers:

"Bogus Social Workers (BSW) ... were reported across the land - appearing to question families, carry out 'tests' and carrying with them the full menace of official power.

An investigation into the phenomena was carried out in 1995, and looked at BSW reports over the preceding five years. The conclusion was that there was little physical reality behind reports.

In 1990, South Yorkshire police initiated Operation Childcare, which collated gathered 250 reports of bogus social workers from 23 police forces. After a year later not, there had not been a single arrest. Just 18 of the reports merited further investigation and just 2 were thought to represent genuine crimes."

http://www.weirdisland.co.uk/behaviour/mass-hysteria/bogussocial-workers.html

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Amen. Pervs and crims are just as much of a mixed-ability group as the general population, and just as susceptible to bullshit ULs.

See also - for just one example - “smoking banana peels gets you high, man!”

I’d bet that if we started a UL about blue Smarties containing a “date-rape drug”, within days girls would be staring in bemusement at the azure croutons bobbing about in their Porn Star Martinis.

maximus otter
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It's 'short cut syndrome' (Which may or may not be a real thing, but it's something I've seen so often). Why bother trying to get to know a girl, take her out a bit, chat, maybe get to the stage where both of you agree to sex, when you can just spike her drink and worry about the fear of arrest for the next howevermany years? I don't know what the arrest or prosecution rate is for date-rape
 
catseye said:
It's 'short cut syndrome' (Which may or may not be a real thing, but it's something I've seen so often). Why bother trying to get to know a girl, take her out a bit, chat, maybe get to the stage where both of you agree to sex, when you can just spike her drink and worry about the fear of arrest for the next howevermany years? I don't know what the arrest or prosecution rate is for date-rape
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I think conviction rates are quite high, if it gets to court, prosecution rates in the UK in general are staggeringly low.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ctims-disclosure-police-funding-a8747191.html
 
This was in my folks local rag this week

20211028_123223.png
 
A bit vague.

Gardaí have confirmed they have commenced investigations into an alleged assault which they believe may have been caused by a drug administered by a needle prick.

It comes amid growing reports of ‘spiking’ via injections across parts of the UK and Ireland. There have been 198 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October across various parts of the UK, plus 24 reports of some form of injection.

Gardaí have now confirmed one investigation into an alleged assault, where a female became disorientated possibly caused by a drug administered by a needle prick.

Gardaí are trying to determine the exact circumstances of the incident.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40732248.html
 
Nosmo King said:
I think conviction rates are quite high, if it gets to court, prosecution rates in the UK in general are staggeringly low.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ctims-disclosure-police-funding-a8747191.html
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Yes. It's a fundamental problem, applies to domestic abuse as well, especially the nonphysical type. It's two people's testimony against each other, and absent further evidence you cannot prosecute.

Especially these days when a certain cult book series and film have made violence in sex mainstream. (I've never read them, mind you - not my cup of tea. I'll stick with the stockings and suspenders - on her - maybe some sexy leather - on either of us)

I don't think there is any cure that doesn't potentially make the situation even worse. Maybe eventually there will be some sort of personal recording device which is undetectable.
 
catseye said:
Oh yes, start a rumour about something and SOMEBODY's going to give it a try. But to this extent? All over the country? Maybe one weird person with an imperfect understanding of the subject....

Talking of which, there seems to have been a LOT of conflation. 'Spiking' to mean illicit drink drugging seems now to be the common word, and a lot of people are thinking 'to be spiked' means to be injected. So we're getting a rash of people saying 'oh yes, I was spiked at such and such a place' (whether they actually were or not is up for debate, but they mean their drink was nobbled) and listeners are taking it to mean 'I was injected'. So the case for injections seems to be way higher than it may, in fact, be.
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We've talked about spiking a drink for a century or more. So confusion between that and assault by injection is I would have thought inevitable.
 
Just this minute I was talking about this with my Father

I said it was nonsense based on lack of evidence. (I am a Scientist and though no medical person, do understand Scientific Methodology...)

He said I was wrong because he had heard reports from the police on the news (Two rather vague sources by my ideas...I want proper references).

I said a lot of it was due to overdrinking and he put me down. I am wrong as usual, being young (48) and not having experience of the world.

He said women are going on strike (???) because of the way women are treated by men and so not going out in the dark (and attending his Art exhibition).

Dad has just come in to say how wrong I am; lucky he cannot see my screen...
 
Kondoru said:
I said a lot of it was due to overdrinking and he put me down. I am wrong as usual, being young (48) and not having experience of the world.

He said women are going on strike (???) because of the way women are treated by men and so not going out in the dark (and attending his Art exhibition).

Dad has just come in to say how wrong I am; lucky he cannot see my screen...
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Your Dad has an art exhibition?
 
I wish. Too busy to do any

Hes running one for the village artists. not many have turned up.
 
There's one on the front page of our local rag:
https://www.yumpu.com/news/en/issue/114124-loughborough-echo-2021-10-27/read

There's evidence of a dot on her elbow which the doctor confirmed was an injection (not sure how).

Separately, I wouldn't be surprised if the news didn't inspire pranksters to prick girls with a pin 'for a laugh' and not having the sense to consider the consequences or even care about them.
 
Whenever I've had an actual injection, there's usually more to show than a pin prick - why have none of these people being injected shown any sign of bruising? Or have they?
 
catseye said:
Whenever I've had an actual injection, there's usually more to show than a pin prick - why have none of these people being injected shown any sign of bruising? Or have they?
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There was one girl who had a large bruise on her hand like you get after a stent, but I wouldn't have thought injecting in to the back of someone hand would be very efficient
 
The initial reports all appeared to be from cities in the East Mids and it did occur to me that there might be a bloke going around with a drawing pin or something and getting a thrill from the penetration. They arrested someone later, maybe it was him.

It could have been a local panic for local people that is now expanded.

I wouldn't be surprised if the pricking and the roofieing are entirely separate behaviours.
 
ramonmercado said:
A bit vague.

Gardaí have confirmed they have commenced investigations into an alleged assault which they believe may have been caused by a drug administered by a needle prick.

It comes amid growing reports of ‘spiking’ via injections across parts of the UK and Ireland. There have been 198 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October across various parts of the UK, plus 24 reports of some form of injection.

Gardaí have now confirmed one investigation into an alleged assault, where a female became disorientated possibly caused by a drug administered by a needle prick.

Gardaí are trying to determine the exact circumstances of the incident.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40732248.html
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More on this. It'll be too late to do any toxicology analysis in the Dublin case. As for Limerick - people tend to stab each other with anything to hand there.

One incident is reported to have happened in a Dublin city centre nightclub last weekend, while another possible incident is being investigated in Limerick.

Sources said the Dublin report “appears to be credible” but said they need to conduct an investigation to confirm exactly what happened.

The injured party has given a statement and previously posted images on social media on the injury and bruising to the underside of her arm. It is understood she reported “feeling disorientated” that night and discovered the pinprick and associated bruising the following morning.

Sources said they are examining if the disorientation is linked to the bruising and apparent injection mark, as opposed to a drink being spiked and the mark being unconnected.

“We are trying to determine the exact nature of the incident and see if the mark and effect are connected, so we’ll have to wait and see,” said a source.

The investigation – being conducted in Store Street Garda Station – is the only confirmed complaint to date, though garda sources said there are social media reports coming in from at least four or five different parts of the country.

The Limerick incident is alleged to have happened earlier this week, at a city centre club.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40732779.html
 
Latest.

Two men have been arrested following reports of women being spiked.

A number of women reported feeling unwell during or after nights out in East Sussex, with some finding puncture marks on their body. A 28-year-old man from Hove has been arrested on suspicion of administering poison with intent to injure. A 19-year-old Brighton man has also been arrested on suspicion of the same offence, Sussex Police said. Both have been bailed while inquiries continue.

The arrests in Sussex follow a number of reports of women being spiked by needle at nightclubs, prompting boycotts of venues around the country.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-59133797
 

Third man arrested in connection with drink spiking and needle sticking in Brighton​


Police have arrested a third man in connection with drink spiking and needle sticking in Sussex.

An 18-year-old man from Brighton was taken into custody on Tuesday (November 2) as part of the investigation into drink spiking in the city.

He was arrested on suspicion of administering poison or noxious thing with intent to injure, aggrieve or annoy and remains in custody at this time.

It follows the arrests of two men – a 28-year-old from Hove and a 19-year-old from Brighton – for the same offence. Both have been released on bail while enquiries continue.

Detectives are investigating a number of recent reports of people becoming unwell during or after nights out, with some finding puncture marks on their body or believing their drink had been tampered with.

https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/s...rink-spiking-and-needle-sticking-in-brighton/
 
Three women have been treated in hospital following suspected injection spikings in Sheffield night clubs, police said.
Two 18-year-old women were discharged but a 19-year-old woman is in a stable condition after being injected over the weekend, South Yorkshire Police said.
A spokesman said inquiries "continue at pace to trace those involved".
Det Ch Insp Benjamin Wood said the injections were "not a joke" and those responsible were "endangering lives".
The first woman, aged 18, was injected at about 02:00 BST on Saturday in a club on Eyre Street.
She became ill and was taken to hospital via ambulance but has since been discharged.
At about 04:00 GMT on Monday, a 19-year-old woman was injected at the same venue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-59143276
 
ramonmercado said:
…in a Dublin city centre nightclub last weekend… she reported “feeling disorientated” that night and discovered the pinprick and associated bruising the following morning.

…the only confirmed complaint to date…
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So, we have an Irish woman, in a Dublin nightclub, at the weekend, who “feels disorientated”, and who subsequently discovers bruising on her arm. Well, there can only be one explanation for that, can’t there?

Er, yes, and William of Ockham stated it in the 14th century.

maximus otter
 
Over on Reddit yesterday (yes, yes, I've been unfaithful to this forum again) there was a thread asking for people who'd been 'spiked' to write their experiences. A LOT of drinks being tampered with (mostly, from the sound of it with additional alcohol) but not one person alleging they'd been injected. In fact, even over there, the whole 'injection with intent to subdue someone' is regarded as an urban myth.
Injecting (or just pricking) someone with the intent to cause panic or fear seems to be a different thing altogether, and is far more probable. You wouldn't have to calculate doseage or even depress a plunger, you can just carry a sewing needing or pin.
 
The recent, tragic Houston concert crush also includes some reports of needle spiking.
Police are also investigating reports that somebody in the audience was injecting people with drugs.
...
Several concert goers had to be revived with anti-drug overdose medicine, including a security officer who police said appeared to have an injection mark on his neck.
"We do have a report of a security officer... that he was reaching over to restrain or grab a citizen and he felt a prick in his neck," Houston Police Chief Troy Finner said.
"When he was examined he went unconscious," he added. "He was revived and the medical staff did notice a prick that was similar to a prick that you would get if somebody is trying to inject.
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Several possibilities here:
The security officer might be using this as an excuse; they might have experienced a random puncture from a sharp object in the chaos, or someone might have been pricking people out of malice, as a bad joke or hoax.

Or someone might have deliberately tried to anaesthetise the security officer for reasons unknown, although this possibility seems unlikely. Perhaps there really are people out there trying to sedate random strangers, maybe copying the numerous reports in the media. But if people really are trying to sedate strangers using needles without being properly trained, I expect there will be incidents where the injected person suffers an overdose.
 
eburacum said:
The recent, tragic Houston concert crush also includes some reports of needle spiking.


Several possibilities here:
The security officer might be using this as an excuse; they might have experienced a random puncture from a sharp object in the chaos, or someone might have been pricking people out of malice, as a bad joke or hoax.

Or someone might have deliberately tried to anaesthetise the security officer for reasons unknown, although this possibility seems unlikely. Perhaps there really are people out there trying to sedate random strangers, maybe copying the numerous reports in the media. But if people really are trying to sedate strangers using needles without being properly trained, I expect there will be incidents where the injected person suffers an overdose.
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This is what makes me wonder if it's mostly a form of hysteria, inspired by all the publicity and any sensation that feels strange. Unconsciousness isn't instant, you'd have to get a sufficient dose of a drug into somebody to even make them pass out and that would - from experience- take a fair amount of time to inject. You can't just prick someone with a tiny amount of something and it be enough to affect their behaviour in any way, unless the substance is so toxic that you'd probably kill them.
 
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