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New 9/11 Photos Of The WTC

The moment one of the World Trade Centre towers begins to crumble in New York
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The photo with this caption below it shows two huge ladder-like sections of steel frame falling away - which seems highly suspicious since it looks like they are lateral stretches of vertical columns with most of the columns that should be there somehow absent.
They don't look like anything to do with the masts on the roofs, it's hard to suggest where else they might be from if not the walls, and it 's hard to see how they would have got into that state without explosive assistance.
 
Thanks for the link.

Thinking aloud:

It's so incredibly epic. No matter how much footage or how many stills I see, I'm still slightly overawed by the jarring impression that these attacks actually, truly happened in the same way that large yet relatively mundane events happen each week. I wonder, on deepest reflection, whether those who planned the attacks (really planned, not the pawns and footmen), realised the scale of what they were doing at the time. We all dream and scheme, but few dream on such a scale. I wonder, moreover (and with a slight prurience), whether they studied the photos and TV-footage themselves. Whilst one is obviously aware that Islamic extremists don't watch a lot of television, it is hard to believe that with the whole world plunged into rapt-hysteria they shouldn't want to survey the fruits of their labour. One's first speculation is that they would have celebrated: that they whooped and cheered on hearing of their success; but a more sober realisation intrudes when one considers the cool and sober-fatalism through which such people must view the world. Perhaps there was no coming to terms with the enormity, perhaps they quietly accepted it as God's will incarnate and moved on with future planning.

To flirt with the impossible, imagine for a moment that you have planned and undertaken a mammoth act of political terrorism: assassinated a head of state, demolished a landmark, visited untold destruction upon some unfortunate representatives of your most hated foe. I'd contend that no matter how carefully modelled, planned and executed this action were, you'd still be left with a sense of visceral disbelief that you'd actually brought it to pass.

Perhaps not; perhaps I'm universalising my own feelings too greatly. Travelling farther along this line though it is interesting to speculate just how far an unshakable faith can take one from the typical quotidian mindset, wherein the mass of humanity can seldom affect history or sway world events.

I have no admiration for those involved, but I find myself brought back to the words of T.E. Lawrence: words I had hitherto seen as more an inspiration that a caution:

Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
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Dangerous men indeed.
 
There's a thread on Above Top Secret concerning an interview with Bob Kerrey, Governor of Nebraska and 9.11 Commission member.
He described it as a 30 year conspiracy. He didn't expand on that, but it gives the impression he knows more than he's telling. Was it possibly a reference to the Towers, built in 1971 and destroyed 30 years later? Were they built with the intention of being brought down, possibly as the closing act of a very long running fraud?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread542071/pg1
 
Ain't it funny how new pics of the WTC emerge - but nothing except a very dodgy video from the Pentagon. I for one still don't buy the official Pentagon version.

Now we have new military images from the WTC - but the same people can't show us anything more from the Pentagon? Pull the other one, mate. 8)
 
Police images, not military....
 
Agree about the Pentagon secrecy. Obviously they aren't going to want a load of shots from inside in case sensitive stuff is revealed. What worries me most about the Pentagon is the story about CCTV footage being rounded up from local buildings, hotels etc... swiftly after the crash that has never been seen again. With all the footage in NYC surely there must be some footage of the plane coming in low over Washington?

Obviously the area around the Pentagon is likely to be heavily under security so i can understand there not being as many public mounted cameras but surely someone would have caught something of a 747 coming in low over the city. That said there are no images of the first plane pre-hit in NYC, I guess the mass of footage of the second jet is because everyone was pointing everything at the WTC.

Pentagon related, and probably mentioned on it's own special thread somewhere, but while link chasing from that first piece I came across some footage of a large white plane flying over the White House at the time of the 9/11 attacks.

Conspiracy nuts identified it as the 'doomsday plane' an Air Force One style jet but booted up with top level comms so that Government could still operate from the air after a devastating attack.

The theory being that it was controlling the whole operation from the air. While that is possible, you have to think that if the comms were so great surely they would fly way way higher and not so obviously over the area under attack?

Surely a more viable solution is that it was taking off to move important people - perhaps the shadowy cabal who really run the US ;) - to a safe distance away from a place under attack. Let's be honest, when has there ever been a time more necessary for use of a 'doomsday plane' to run the nation?
 
McAvennie_ said:
What worries me most about the Pentagon is the story about CCTV footage being rounded up from local buildings, hotels etc... swiftly after the crash that has never been seen again. With all the footage in NYC surely there must be some footage of the plane coming in low over Washington?
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Have a look here, scroll down the page and you'll see pictures from a gas station and hotel that were seized by the FBI. There's nothing of note in them because the cameras were low quality and not aimed in the right direction. There was nothing from the Sheraton hotel.

I guess the mass of footage of the second jet is because everyone was pointing everything at the WTC.
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Exactly. The plane came in low and fast, had there been a second aircraft at the Pentagon there would surely have been more footage.

While that is possible, you have to think that if the comms were so great surely they would fly way way higher and not so obviously over the area under attack?
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I can't find any decent source for those aircraft claims aside from conspiracy web sites, so aside from it probably not being true, you're right to say that it would make no sense. If it was something like an AWACS plane (most likely if "they" were controlling a giant plane-shaped missile since they're already packed with electronics) they wouldn't be flying so low.


Conspiracy theories seem to rely on the government being both smart enough to pull off a huge plot involving many people who never let slip a word of their involvement, and dumb enough to make silly mistakes that can be detected by people watching YouTube videos.

It's also funny how people seem to think that the government would potentially cripple, or risk causing great damage to, its own intelligence and military agencies by launching a missile at a vital building like the Pentagon.
 
Zilch5 said:
Ain't it funny how new pics of the WTC emerge - but nothing except a very dodgy video from the Pentagon. I for one still don't buy the official Pentagon version...
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If you look at the attacks as consisiting of two stages - the initial attack and the immediate intended result of that attack - then it strikes me that the events at the WTC took (from initial impact to the point where the maximum structural damage caused by that impact has occured), relatively speaking, longer to unfold than those at the Pentagon and therefore provided a wider window of opportunity for the gathering of images. (Edit: Sorry, that's basically what McAvennie said already, isn't it?)

Bigfoot73 said:
The photo with this caption below it shows two huge ladder-like sections of steel frame falling away...
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Steel is fabricated in sections and once assembled a steel structure is going to be weakest at the points where individual sections are joined. When millions of kilos of concrete and other debris is collapsing around the structure at least some of these joints will fail. I really don't see irrefutable evidence of the use of explosives in a couple of loose ladder beams.

hokum6 said:
Conspiracy theories seem to rely on the government being both smart enough to pull off a huge plot involving many people and keeping them all quiet, and dumb enough to make silly mistakes that can be detected by people watching YouTube videos.
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Seconded.
 
The problem with these kind of things are that the conspiracists can find evidence in so many places to keep stacking up their case.

The Government on the other hand only really have two options.

Confirm it is a conspiracy and that they did it, not going to happen.

Deny the allegations or remain silent, which just fuels the speculation.

So the Government - even if innocent - cannot shut down these conspiracies because without full disclosure of involvement the conspiracists will never believe anything they say.

It's a vicious circle.

That said, there are so many questions about 9/11. I don't really know where I stand, I would suggest there was some level of Govment knowledge of the intended event. how far they were in and how what happened matched what they expected to happen is another deal.

What is undeniable is that after almost 10 years whenever new images/footage/documentaries about this day emerge it draws nothing but fascination.

I think it is as The Yithian put it, we all know what happened, we have all seen what happened, but even now I don't think it is easy to actually digest it happened thus the need to rewitness it again and again. Either that or we are all morbid, sick, fucks! :lol:
 
Spookdaddy said:
hokum6 said:
Conspiracy theories seem to rely on the government being both smart enough to pull off a huge plot involving many people and keeping them all quiet, and dumb enough to make silly mistakes that can be detected by people watching YouTube videos.
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Seconded.
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I can't see that 9/11 is ever as black and white as you both suggest, nor is anything in this life. I don't know if either of you have worked on large commercial projects, but I have and these exceptionally complex projects, just like government projects, are attempted by average intelligence people with blind confidence and misplaced hope. Now large projects invariably don't go according to plan, no matter how much preparation is done, control is exerted, and processes are put in place, but somehow they come together in the end.

If the project is deemed a success you don't hear much about it, it just silently gets done and the individual players remain anonymous. If however it goes badly, then everyone hears about it, scapegoats are found, blame is apportioned, and the guilty are rounded up (actually this can also happen on a successful project!).

I would say that if 9/11 was a government (or NWO) project, then it was only a mediocre success, narrowly escaping total failure, and as a result much remedial work has been needed to reinforce the success.
 
theyithian said:
Thinking aloud:
I wonder, on deepest reflection, whether those who planned the attacks (really planned, not the pawns and footmen), realised the scale of what they were doing at the time. We all dream and scheme, but few dream on such a scale. I wonder, moreover (and with a slight prurience), whether they studied the photos and TV-footage themselves. Whilst one is obviously aware that Islamic-Extremists don't watch a lot of television, it is hard to believe with the whole world plunged into rapt-hysteria, they shouldn't want to survey the fruits of their labour. One's first speculation is that they would have celebrated: that they whooped and cheered on hearing of their success; but a more sober realisation intrudes when one considers the cool and sober-fatalism through which such people must view the world.
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I remember watching these events unfold, and after a couple of hours of being glued to the beeb news, I decided to look on other news channels to see what their coverage was, and at the time, my TV provider included in their 'news n docs' package, the Al-Jazera news channel, which did indeed show images of the towers destruction and crowds of people cheering. Or at least that was my interpretation, as the subtitle facility wasn't working at that moment, but burning US flags kinda clinched it for me.
 
WowBagger said:
I can't see that 9/11 is ever as black and white as you both suggest,
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I don't think either are suggesting it is black and white, but it always struck me as strange that for many of the conpiracies to work then the shadowy cabals have to be able to use solid light holograms to disguise missiles as planes, swap out the passengers from flights and keep them guarded in a secret location for the rest of their lives (or murder them), remote control planes, create live action CGI of impacts and devastation, yet can't pull a Youtube video that "exposes it all" on the basis of zooming in and highlighting one dodgy pixel.

If the NWO is so incompetent that they can't silence some yahoos with a copy of Photoshop and a Youtube account, then I don't believe they can orchestrate a massive conspiracy on this scale with esoteric weapons and keep so many people silent.
 
lawofnations: very wise, summing it up pretty well.

TBH, the only thing that really makes me think of a possible 9/11 conspiracy is the story of the very quickly and conveniently found terrorist passport.
 
hokum6 said:
It's also funny how people seem to think that the government would potentially cripple, or risk causing great damage to, its own intelligence and military agencies by launching a missile at a vital building like the Pentagon.
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I can go along with most of what you say - but the area of the Pentagon that was hit and damaged was (miraculously) empty of Pentagon employees due to renovations. If you look at the official flight path of the plane that supposedly hit, it took great pain to hit the building in this particular spot. Why?

There's just something on the nose there. But I must admit I haven't got a clue as to why someone would do this.
 
Where does it say it was empty and undergoing renovation? According to this page it had been recently renovated, the section hit housed some occupied as well as unoccupied offices. There's a list of those killed here.

The flight path doesn't strike me as being unusual either. From what I can see the plane came in from the west, did a loop round, likely explained by the amateur pilots lack of ability and experience, and hit in the south west. It's not like they looped right round and hit the east side, but even if they did you could still put that down to a lack of skill from the pilots.

Anyway, you'd think the NWO would want to hit an old part of the building so they didn't have to rebuild something that had just been decorated. ;)
 
Ok, recently renovated? Maybe, I'll check on that...

There are some doubts as well about the flght path, but that I fear we are straying too far from the topic as it is.
 
Recently renovated? Was a big target symbol painted on the outside wall at the same time by any chance?
 
Even if the building was empty, though, I wouldn't put it down to anything more than dumb luck. The conspirators were ruthless enough to bring down several huge buildings in New York and kill thousands, but were careful to only do a little bit of damage to the Pentagon? If that were the case why even bother attacking it at all?

Anyway, the truthers crying about how it was a missile doesn't make sense on any level. Eyewitnesses saw a plane fly overheard, ATC were tracking the aircraft until its transponder was disabled, and what did those dastardly conspirators do with an entire aircraft and its plane full of passengers? Not to mention the wreckage and bodies which looked suspiciously like the aftermath of a commercial airliner crash.
 
Zilch5 said:
But I must admit I haven't got a clue as to why someone would do this.
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Destroy evidence of something? Elaborate way of going about it, admittedly.

I'm sure I read something somewhere about one of the minor WTC buildings that collapsed housing records or accounts of something that were conveniently lost.

Can't remember what though. May be misremembered conspiracy lies though as I also remember hearing/reading something about contractors from a company owned by Jeb Bush, or connected to him, being in the WTC doing maintenance work or something in the weeks before 9-11. The implication being they were planting the explosives.

A little Google on that issue didn't seemingly throw up any evidence of what I remembered hearing.
 
McAvennie_ said:
Destroy evidence of something? Elaborate way of going about it, admittedly.
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It's a ridiculous way of going about it. If that's why it happened then we are dealing with a real threat: an all-powerful group of conspirators who are unable to purchase and use paper shredders and hard disk wiping tools.

I'm sure I read something somewhere about one of the minor WTC buildings that collapsed housing records or accounts of something that were conveniently lost.
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That would be a really silly way to destroy some records, and I'd find it hard to believe that if these documents were that vital there wouldn't be backups. Would love to hear the truthers explain what they think was on these supposed records.

I also remember hearing/reading something about contractors from a company owned by Jeb Bush, or connected to him, being in the WTC doing maintenance work or something in the weeks before 9-11. The implication being they were planting the explosives.
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The largest building ever demolished was 612 feet. The WTC towers were over 1,300 feet tall. Demolitions aren't something you can do over a weekend, they take a lot of planning. The workers would have been noticed, the massive amount of explosives required would have been noticed.

The story of explosives being planted during maintenance work stems from workers in the towers saying they had been evacuated several times in the weeks before for fire drills. The idea that anyone could plan a demolition of that size in between fire drills and without anyone noticing is preposterous. There's also the fact of there being no signs of explosives and of the buildings collapsing from the point the planes hit, not from the bottom as is done in controlled demolitions.

As for the Jeb Bush thing, you may be thinking of Marvin Bush. He was on the board of directors for a company which handled some security for the buildings, but he left the company in 2000.
 
hokum6 said:
As for the Jeb Bush thing, you may be thinking of Marvin Bush. He was on the board of directors for a company which handled some security for the buildings, but he left the company in 2000.
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Ah yeh, a quick Google shows that to be the case. I knew I had heard somewhere something about a Bush being involved.

Not committing one way or another on this issue, I'm just recalling stuff I remember hearing about. But just because M Bush wasn't directly connected to the company on the actual day surely isn't enough to imply no connection? If his involvement had been purely a front to get access to the building then he would not need to still be with them once the explosives or whatever had been installed.

Regarding WTC7 and the controlled explosion theory. Surely if the Govment wanted to bring that one down all they would need to do would be to release a statement saying the building was unsafe and they needed to carry out a controlled explosion to bring it down, rather than just doing it anyway and leaving themselves open to a conspiracy?
 
Dr_Baltar said:
hokum6 said:
the massive amount of explosives required would have been noticed.
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Particularly when they went *bang*!
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No you see they were stealth bombs made in the same lab that produced the holograms for disguising the missiles.
 
Does anyone have an explanation for the pools of molten metal that were found in the basements of the WTC towers?
 
Cavynaut said:
Does anyone have an explanation for the pools of molten metal that were found in the basements of the WTC towers?
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Tackled extensively here.

Basically, there's no great mystery behind it. Truthers like to bring it up because they think it proves that explosives or thermite were used, as though that somehow negates the fact that there was no evidence of an explosion or bombs.
 
hokum6 said:
Cavynaut said:
Does anyone have an explanation for the pools of molten metal that were found in the basements of the WTC towers?
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Tackled extensively here.

Basically, there's no great mystery behind it. Truthers like to bring it up because they think it proves that explosives or thermite were used, as though that somehow negates the fact that there was no evidence of an explosion or bombs.
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Let's see:

It couldn't have been explosives because there were no "bangs" and it couldn't have been some form of thermite, because that's not really explosives.

Also:

The apparent pools of molten metal were actually caused by spontaneous combustion.

I can't say that I find those totally convincing counter arguments.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Let's see:

It couldn't have been explosives because there were no "bangs" and it couldn't have been some form of thermite, because that's not really explosives.
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Uh...what do you find hard to believe about that? Bombs tend to make a big boom, and thermite couldn't have been used not because it's not explosives, but because you'd need a ridiculously massive amount of it and nobody has yet to suggest a way in which you could use thermite to cut across steel beams.

And we've already covered this, whether you used explosives or some kind of mystery thermite, the amount needed would be massive and there would be no way they could hide it and plan a demolition job of that size in between fire drills like the truthers have suggested. It's completely ludicrous.

Also:

The apparent pools of molten metal were actually caused by spontaneous combustion.

I can't say that I find those totally convincing counter arguments.
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Okay, well suggest another argument then. Perhaps their reasoning for the pools of metal is wrong, but it wasn't bombs for the many reasons already discussed. Once again we're back to conspiracy theories that rely on imaginary technology and completely unrealistic plots.
 
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