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New Claim: Mirror Imaging _Last Supper_ Yields New Figures

EnolaGaia

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Da Vinci code 'cracked' by computer analyst
From correspondents in Rome
July 27, 2007 12:00am

Claims that flipping the painting reveals new people
Pictures: Can you see the hidden figures?
A COMPUTER analyst claimed to have found new images in Leonardo Da Vinci's The Last Supper, one of the world's best-loved religious paintings.

Slavisa Pesci said he found new images in the 15th mural in Milan's Santa Maria delle Grazie church by superimposing a reverse image on the original image.

When doing so, Pesci said the two figures on either end of the long table, for example, appear to become knights and another appears to hold an infant.

Experts, however, were sceptical of his claims.

SOURCE: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,21985,22 ... 00,00.html

Additional web source with images illustrating the claims:

http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,23607, ... 50,00.html
 
Another edition of the story ...

New "Last Supper" theory crashes Leonardo Web sites
Fri Jul 27, 12:51 PM ET

MILAN (Reuters) - A new theory that Leonardo's "Last Supper" might hide within it a depiction of Christ blessing the bread and wine has triggered so much interest that Web sites connected to the picture have crashed.

The famous fresco is already the focus of mythical speculation after author Dan Brown based his "The Da Vinci Code" book around the painting, arguing in the novel that Jesus married his follower, Mary Magdelene, and fathered a child.

Now Slavisa Pesci, an information technologist and amateur scholar, says superimposing the "Last Supper" with its mirror-image throws up another picture containing a figure who looks like a Templar knight and another holding a small baby.

"I came across it by accident, from some of the details you can infer that we are not talking about chance but about a precise calculation," Pesci told journalists when he unveiled the theory earlier this week.

Websites www.leonardodavinci.tv, www.codicedavinci.tv, www.cenacolo.biz and www.leonardo2007.com had 15 million hits on Thursday morning alone, organizers said, adding they were trying to provide a more powerful server for the sites.

In the superimposed version, a figure on Christ's left appears to be cradling a baby in its arms, Pesci said, but he made no suggestion this could be Christ's child.

Judas, whose imminent betrayal of Christ is the force breaking the right-hand line of the original fresco, appears in an empty space on the left in the reverse image version.

And Pesci also suggests that the superimposed version shows a goblet before Christ and illustrates when Christ blessed bread and wine at a supper with his disciples for the first Eucharist.

The original Da Vinci depicts Christ when he predicts that one among them will betray him.

SOURCE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070727/wr_ ... _theory_dc
 
We have the Last Supper in cross-stitch on the wall here. I'll try it with that. :D
 
It is a superimposed muddle, I can see all sorts in there but then I'm a cloud watcher for all the shapes I can see in them.

Hasn't Dan Brown flogged this horse to death already?
 
I was going to say that artists often re-use old canvases or start something in the picture then scrub it out and paint over it, and modern technology can detect this. But having examined it closely I can only concur with BRF
 
http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,23607,5024588-5007150,00.html

All I can see from all this mirror-imaging and super-imp posing, is that...

... the central figure of Christ ends up looking like some very sinister horned demon... :shock:
 
BlackRiverFalls said:
i don't see it... it just looks like a superimposed muddle to me..

BRF hits the mark again!

I was going to say that I saw a duckie and a horsie but I changed my mind.
 
There's a wonderful old legend about "The Last Supper" which may not be out of place here.

I call it a legend because it's much too good to be true.

Leonardo painted Jesus first. He searched the streets looking for the handsomest and noblest-visaged young man he could find to pose for the Saviour.

Leonardo spent 20 years on the painting and he saved Judas for last. Back to the streets again to find the ugliest, most dissolute and most scabrous bum he could track down.

The vagrant looked strangely familiar to the artist. As he sketched he asked if they had not had some previous encounter.

"Certainly," answered the bum. "Don't you remember? 20 years ago you hired me to pose for Christ!"
 
This looks like an example of a researcher with a preconceived idea of what he's looking for tipping the interpretation of the results in his favour.

Knights indeed.

I suppose we can be thankful that this research was not sponsored by the Gallo Brothers otherwise there'd be highlights around shadowy simulacra to elements on their labels.

Bad Science - 2/10
 
I admit its very clever and Leonardo as we know was really smart and all that but would he really have thought.. "oh I know.. one day they'll be able to put a transparent reverse image on this and see something entirely different so I'll paint it so it will give a new message out".

The only reason for him to do that is if he was trying to convey a message to his fellow order members... in CODE like Albus Dumbledore to his order of the phoenix.. or something. Does anyone actually think Da vinci was in the priory of sion? I don't know about that but I once heard he was in the Rosicrucians.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
There's a wonderful old legend about "The Last Supper" which may not be out of place here.

I call it a legend because it's much too good to be true.

Leonardo painted Jesus first. He searched the streets looking for the handsomest and noblest-visaged young man he could find to pose for the Saviour.

Leonardo spent 20 years on the painting and he saved Judas for last. Back to the streets again to find the ugliest, most dissolute and most scabrous bum he could track down.

The vagrant looked strangely familiar to the artist. As he sketched he asked if they had not had some previous encounter.

"Certainly," answered the bum. "Don't you remember? 20 years ago you hired me to pose for Christ!"

That is priceless--I wish it were true!!
 
Apart from being shown to be untrue on Snopes, etc, it doesn't ring true. Leonardo wouldn't have spent 20 years working on anything he wasn't obsessed with, and his Last Supper was a commission which he tried to do in as little time as possible. That's why it's falling apart now.

Now, if it were Michelangelo, it would sound more plausible. But it would still sound like soppy sentimental crap.
 
I'm sure Leonardo didn't paint "the last supper" over a 20 year period - it was a 'fresco' and you have to be quick! But it sounds like he would use his Christ 'model' as his reference for Judas! :shock:
 
Anome_ said:
Leonardo wouldn't have spent 20 years working on anything he wasn't obsessed with....

For what it's worth, though, I was taught both the "20 years" and the "obsessed" in Roman Catholic grade school, so the error's pervasive.

However, the vast majority of that time (according to what we were taught) was spent in sketching and in pre-paintings.
 
It's probably (undoubtedly) true that he spent many years sketching and pre-painting . And I'm sure he had a team of 'artists' working with and for him for the finished work. Hard to tell. The painting is in such a pretty poor state and has been 'touched up' so many times over the years - it's hard working out just what is authentic anymore!
 
You might want to fix up your attributions, to make it clear you're quoting OTR, and not me.

Anyway, Leonardo was notoriously impatient, leading to him developing a new form of plaster to make frescoes his way, rather than the normal way. Now, consider that doing it the normal way resulted in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel which, once you clean off all the candle soot, still looks pretty good, and doing it Leo's way resulted in his Last Supper, which has been visibly deteriorating since the 16th Century.

I just can't believe that Leonardo would spend 20 years on a commission like that. He'd either do it as quickly as possible to get it over with, or forget about it until the bailiffs came round to collect the money he'd been paid.
 
Anome_ said:
You might want to fix up your attributions, to make it clear you're quoting OTR, and not me.

Fixed now. I'm quoting no-one. This site software takes forever (sometimes) to post a post and, though I'm not an impatient person, I just give up sometimes - waiting for things to happen. Which can mean that there are errors that I miss and don't correct.
 
Frobush said:
Anome_ said:
You might want to fix up your attributions, to make it clear you're quoting OTR, and not me.

Fixed now. I'm quoting no-one. This site software takes forever (sometimes) to post a post and, though I'm not an impatient person, I just give up sometimes - waiting for things to happen. Which can mean that there are errors that I miss and don't correct.

...which could have also been Leonardo's problem.
 
One of the "factoids" we were taught in pariochal school around the fifth grade (circa 1951-1952) was that Leonardo worked for years on a pre-painting, then called in a friend or assistant to look at the finished work.

"Tell me," asked Leonardo, "what do you notice first when you look at the painting?"

"The Chalice," came the reply.

Leonardo tore up the entire painting and started over.

The correct reply was to have been "Christ."

Don't know where the good nuns dug up that one.
 
hmmmm...well with all the mirrored imaged humans around that table - I think I just noticed Elvis.

That DaVinci...what a thinker!

:D
 
jouweleen said:
hmmmm...well with all the mirrored imaged humans around that table - I think I just noticed Elvis.

That's good. But I also found John Wayne, Sean Connery, Findlay Currie and George W. Bush.

Regarding all this, let us not forget the words of Jesus from the Lost Scroll (which I unearthed myself from my very own backyard, along with the prehistoric Barbie dolls):

"Well, boys, that's the Last Supper we're having at THESE prices."
 
If you really want to investigate this painting, check out this GINORMOUS 16 billion pixel version on the web:

http://www.haltadefinizione.com/en/

Zoom in, and pan L, R, Up, Down....

Amazing! :D


PS: at higher zoom levels, it can a while for the data to download, and this will depend on your internet connection speed.
 
Digitized "Last Supper"

Hello wise ones -
I found this news story today and had a few questions

http://www.haltadefinizione.com/en/cenacolo/look.asp

Apparently this is a digitized version of the Last Supper which is wonderful to look at - however, I am perplexed by the seeminly disembodied arm to the left of the controversial magdelene figure - which is holding a knief. No matter how close I get to the picture, I don't believe that arm could belong to the other two apostles near it due to the angle - but also the skin tone doesn't match the magdelene/John the beloved figure.

I know that this art work has undergone many restorations, so I'm interested to see if any of you could direct me to some commentaries about this.

Also from art history class, I was told that Judas could be identified by spilled salt being in front of him. However, the paint has disintegrated to the point that I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
the wiki entry credits the knife hand as being peters, but i don;t see that being right at all... his arm would have to be ludicrously long for it to fold round...

# Bartholomew, James, son of Alphaeus and Andrew form a group of three, all are surprised.
# Judas Iscariot, Peter and John form another group of three. Judas is wearing green and blue and is in shadow, looking rather withdrawn and taken aback by the sudden revelation of his plan. He is clutching a small bag, perhaps signifying the silver given to him as payment to betray Jesus, or perhaps a reference to his role within the 12 disciples as treasurer. He is not the only person to have his elbow on the table; the painting also shows Jude Iscariot with his elbow on the table, traditionally a sign of bad manners. Peter looks angry and is holding a knife pointed away from Christ, perhaps foreshadowing his violent reaction in Gethsemane during Jesus' arrest. The youngest apostle, John, appears to swoon.

personally i'd be inclined to see it as being symbolic of judas having an extra hand behind his back bearing the knife... at least it would have more meaning than peter having a very very long arm!
 
reading further into the wiki page, it's claimed that the 'extra hand' is a product of the paintings deterioration and links to a better quality reproduction... which doesn't look much different to me.

it also mentions that leonardo's original sketches for it still exist, unfortunately the link to them is broken... you could always see if you could google them up or something?
 
really weird (OMG)

Thanks for the feedback. Based on what you noted about it being Peter's arm, I zoomed in again and see that Peter is actually RESTRAINING the arm with the knief. So his one hand is on John's shoulder and the other is restraining the knief - so all hands accounted for. Perhaps you're right about this being symbolic. So interesting! :shock:
 
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