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New Guinea Ropen & Other Potentially Weird Bats Or Birds

amyasleigh

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
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Spin-off here, from the new "Irian Jaya thylacines" thread on "mystery quadrupeds": concerning New Guinea, I'm rather taken with the idea of that part of the world's "Ropen". Envisaged by some, as a possible pterodactyl / pterosaur. Admittedly, anecdotal evidence only: account by an American WW2 veteran of his sighting in 1944, when stationed near Finschhafen, north-eastern Papua New Guinea, of what he thought to look very much like a pterodactyl. Plus reported sightings by locals, at various dates between then and recently, of similar-seeming creatures, chiefly on various islands off the coast in that area.

The pre-eminent Ropen proponent and publiciser would seem to be one Jonathan Whitcomb, who has published a couple of books on the matter -- "Searching for Ropens" and "Searching for Dragons". In the eyes of many in the "fancy", this whole issue is contaminated by Whitcomb's holding creationist beliefs, which he would see as supported by pterodactyls / pterosaurs being alive and well at the present day. Rightly or wrongly, I don't consider the guy's believing what he does in this matter, to be conclusive proof that the whole Ropen thing has to be baloney.
 
According to Wikipedia, some "suggest that the Ropen is a misidentified bat (e.g. flying foxes, which are large fruit bats than can have wingspans up to two metres (six feet), or frigatebird."

We have these large Flying Foxes galore here in Sydney - and you'd have to be a first grade moron to mistake one of these for some sort of flying dinosaur!

As for the Frigatebird, well, it looks a heck of a lot like a bird! :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropen
 
I thought this thread was going to be about strange musical rhythms, but in fact it's just bats!
 
Damn typos ! -- often irresistible to point out. On another board recently, a poster put "elvish", clearly in mistake for "selfish": I couldn't refrain from posting a Tolkien-related crack...

Zilch5 -- yes; sometimes, suggested mundane explanations for cryptids seem more far-fetched, than the observer's actually having seen a cryptid.

I meant to put in my OP, but it slipped mind -- though Ropens strike me as pretty improbable (would it were otherwise) -- IMO, and as was observed in the Irian Jaya thylacines thread, the island of New Guinea would seem to be one of the likeliest remaining places on earth for harbouring unknown creatures of a fair size.
 
We have these large Flying Foxes galore here in Sydney - and you'd have to be a first grade moron to mistake one of these for some sort of flying dinosaur!

Well, I don't know if it's as silly as you say. I've just returned from a trip to Australia where I was fascinated watching the flying foxes emerge every evening. If an extra large version existed somewhere remote - and had perhaps developed (say) a pointy face and/or crest on its head - I think it's quite credible that a shocked observer might think they had seen a pterodactyl.
 
My favourite was the story of the Czech sailor who jumped ship in FNQ, and then surrendered himself after thinking the flying foxes were vampire bats.
 
Splendid anecdote ! It would be even better if he'd happened to be a Romanian sailor -- with that nationality's well-known "thing" about matters vampiric.
 
This skeptical 2010 article at the Smithsonian site:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dont-get-strung-along-by-the-ropen-myth-78644354/

... claims the alleged ropen in a video is actually a misidentified frigate bird.

The recent Cricket World Cup piqued my interest in Papua New Guinea and many articles about this fascinating country refer to the Ropen legend, usually in a jocular manner, rather like travelogues about Scotland refer to Nessie.

I agree that the Frigate bird, with its steeply angled wings, trailing legs held together so it appears as a long tail, and slick, swept-back plumage is probably the best candidate for sightings of an alleged Ropen in flight.

bird1.JPG
bird2.JPG


And, as for those close-encounter type sightings, featuring a crepuscular creature with leathery bat-like wings, claws and sharp teeth, then PNG's own giant Fruit Bat would seem to tick the boxes:

bat.JPG


The mega-bats are even occasionally reported to exhibit a form of bioluminescence, due to bacterial build-up on their fur, which is another supposed feature of the Ropen.
 
Complete transcript of Monster Talk's highly sceptical episode devoted to pterosaurs and the alleged New Guinea Ropen in particular.

Makes the very valid point that recent well-preserved pterosaur fossils revealed these creatures had downy fur and feather-like structures on their torso and neck, but all eye-witness accounts of supposed living pterosaurs simply repeat the outdated text-book description of an all-over leathery skin.

The existence of living pterosaurs is compared to the infamous Australian Drop-Bear.

https://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/09/10/12/transcript/
 
Are there any structural differences between bats and birds, which mean bats could not grow to the same size as for example a condor?
 
Even ordinary fruit bats look pretty bloody gigantic when they are flying around. First time I saw one in the wild was down by the river in Melbourne. Summer night, we were standing on a bridge looking over the water when this bloody enormous THING flew across the night sky, like a witch on a broomstick. Nobody turned a hair and I had to point and do the 'what the hell was that?' thing. My daughter just said, 'a bat'.

Fair near widdled myself.
 
Are there any structural differences between bats and birds, which mean bats could not grow to the same size as for example a condor?

In the same programme they refer to the Andean condor as one of the best candidates for the semi-legendary Thunderbird.

Only an estimated 500-600 of them left in Peru and numbers dropping each year, thanks to revolting "blood festivals" where a condor is captured, drugged with alcohol, its legs bound and then stitched to the back of a bull.

bull.png
 
I once found myself in a large cage, containing 7 of those condors. Scary.
 
Are there any structural differences between bats and birds, which mean bats could not grow to the same size as for example a condor?

My guess is "yes" ...

Bats are relatively heavier than birds due to their different lineages. AFAIK bats' wing bones are thinner versions of 'regular' limb bones, whereas birds have evolved lightweight / hollowed wing bones. Bat wings are more fragile (compared to the rest of the body) than birds' wings.

Bat wings are more flexible, allowing them to maneuver in a more nuanced manner than (most) birds. However, bats aren't equipped for long-distance flight like birds are. For example, I suspect bats can't match the high metabolism and resultant energy efficiency that birds have.

All in all, I suspect there's an upper size limit on bat physiology that's lower than the upper size limit on bird physiology. As a result, I have a much easier time entertaining the notion of a possible thunderbird than a similarly-sized 'thunderbat' ...
 
Not much to tell. Animal sanctuary in Peru. I decided to stay out of the jaguar cage.
 
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