- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Nissan Leaf Electric Car
- Thread starter Trevp666
- Start date
Nice piece from the US on life with the Leaf;
http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2011/05/2011_nissan_leaf_review.html
http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2011/05/2011_nissan_leaf_review.html
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2001
- Messages
- 51,689
- Location
- Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
trevp66 said:
Recharge time must be a lot slower in the US with their 110/120 volt mains power.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
T.27 is 'world's most efficient electric car'
Gordon Murray, renowned Formula One designer, unveils his vision of low-cost, low-impact urban transport.
Louise Gray
6:30AM BST 12 Jul 2011
Gordon Murray, the renowned designer of Formula One racing cars, has unveiled the world's 'most efficient electric car' that he claims can drive 100 miles for 50p.
The T.27 fits three people in it but at 2.5m long can park head-on to the pavement so it is possible to fit three into one parking space.
There is a 'fighter jet' style door so that passengers can get in and out in a tight space and seats go down to fit goods from six shopping trolleys.
The car was developed with the help of a £4.5 million grant from the Government-backed strategy board in order to create a more convenient car for the city, that also helps in the fight against climate change.
To cut its carbon footprint from the very beginning, the car has been manufactured using the new iStream system, that it requires much less energy and natural resources.
Instead of fitting together steel panels, like a normal car, panels made of plastic composite are fitted around a steel frame.
Murray Design claim the new material, based on the hyper-strong design of Formula One cars, is safe and hard-wearing.
Mr Murray claims the car will drive for 100 miles with three passengers after charging for four hours. Overnight this would cost 50p or £1 on day rates, compared to £14 to power an equivalent petrol car over that distance.
He said cars have been designed in the same way with steel panels for more than 100 years and it was about time that manufacturers adopted a different model.
"I hope it will be a big milestone in automotive history," he said.
Murray Design insist major companies are interested and a model could be on the market in two years.
However no companies are willing to be named and with stiff competition from China, there is also a question over whether it will ever be manufactured in Britain.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/gre ... c-car.html
Gordon Murray, renowned Formula One designer, unveils his vision of low-cost, low-impact urban transport.
Louise Gray
6:30AM BST 12 Jul 2011
Gordon Murray, the renowned designer of Formula One racing cars, has unveiled the world's 'most efficient electric car' that he claims can drive 100 miles for 50p.
The T.27 fits three people in it but at 2.5m long can park head-on to the pavement so it is possible to fit three into one parking space.
There is a 'fighter jet' style door so that passengers can get in and out in a tight space and seats go down to fit goods from six shopping trolleys.
The car was developed with the help of a £4.5 million grant from the Government-backed strategy board in order to create a more convenient car for the city, that also helps in the fight against climate change.
To cut its carbon footprint from the very beginning, the car has been manufactured using the new iStream system, that it requires much less energy and natural resources.
Instead of fitting together steel panels, like a normal car, panels made of plastic composite are fitted around a steel frame.
Murray Design claim the new material, based on the hyper-strong design of Formula One cars, is safe and hard-wearing.
Mr Murray claims the car will drive for 100 miles with three passengers after charging for four hours. Overnight this would cost 50p or £1 on day rates, compared to £14 to power an equivalent petrol car over that distance.
He said cars have been designed in the same way with steel panels for more than 100 years and it was about time that manufacturers adopted a different model.
"I hope it will be a big milestone in automotive history," he said.
Murray Design insist major companies are interested and a model could be on the market in two years.
However no companies are willing to be named and with stiff competition from China, there is also a question over whether it will ever be manufactured in Britain.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/gre ... c-car.html
It seems that some people are interested - they just don't want to be named at the moment.
That said, it's an ugly design. The rush to go green has produced some startlingly ugly cars. Utility over form doesn't always work with cars
That said, it's an ugly design. The rush to go green has produced some startlingly ugly cars. Utility over form doesn't always work with cars
Anome
Bibliomancer
- Joined
- May 23, 2002
- Messages
- 5,528
- Location
- Left, and to the Back
The way to sell electric (and hybrid) cars is to make them look as much like normal cars as possible. Sure, you can sell a few of the small wheelbase, off-beat cars - Smart cars sell to a certain class of people, too - but if you want to get more people buying them, you have to make them think they're not giving anything up.
Another thing that will help:
All-electric F1 could boost electric car research
Another thing that will help:
All-electric F1 could boost electric car research
Anome_ said:
Very true. Mind you, a recent American hydrogen fuel cell car looked so much like a normal very boring car that it's design also wouldn't do it any favours in terms of sales.
Both electric and hydro cars seem to avoid the 'hot hatch' or 'practical suburbanite MPV car' designs, which seem to be the most popular. Odd really.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Vauxhall's Ampera: a car, but not as we know it
Neil Lyndon explains the inner workings of Vauxhall's extended range electric car, the Ampera.
By Neil Lyndon
11:06AM BST 12 Apr 2012
Anybody who owns a Vauxhall Ampera will have been blithely indifferent to the recent fuel crisis. No jerry-can angst for them. If they drive less than 25 miles to work, they will have sailed past the queues at the pumps with a merry (zero emissions) wave, recharging the car at home overnight with about £1 worth of electricity. No doubt they are sharply conscious of these benefits, but they probably don't have a clue how the Ampera actually works. And they are not alone.
"You're still getting it wrong," a representative of the company chided the press at the launch. "I can assure you, the generator doesn't recharge the battery."
This may not be entirely the fault of the hacks. If motoring writers, who share lifelong professional interests in cars, have trouble making sense of a new model, it's probably quite difficult to understand. A panel of motoring journalists recently annointed the Ampera European Car of the Year; but it's possible that they didn't get it, either.
It's easier to say what the Ampera isn't, rather than what it is. It isn't a conventionally powered car, though it does have a 1.4-litre petrol engine. It isn't a petrol-electric hybrid, even though it does contain a lithium-ion battery pack and a pair of electric motors. It isn't even a five-seater, though it's a sizeable car.
Vauxhall makes what appears to be a simple claim for the Ampera, saying that it is "the first electric vehicle suitable for everyday use" because it does away with "range anxiety". We can get our heads around this statement, no bother. It's common knowledge that electric vehicles have been hampered by the limited range provided by batteries – usually not more than about 100 miles – and the time they take to recharge. Many have to be plugged in all night before they are fully charged, although they can be topped up at the few recharging points that exist.
Naturally, these limitations induce anxiety. Many times I have been driving an electric car in winter when the range indicator suddenly drops below the distance to my home. In a near panic, I have to switch off the radio, air-conditioning and heated rear-window and crawl back at under 40mph.
The Ampera does away with these fears. Its 150bhp electric drive unit may be capable only of 25-50 miles when taking power solely from the battery pack, but when that range is exhausted, the "range extender" kicks in. The 86bhp petrol engine takes over, not by supplying power to the transmission system but by generating electricity which drives the wheels. In that mode, the Ampera can run for a further 310 miles before the tank is empty. You can plug the Ampera into a domestic supply using a three-pin plug, but you should get your wiring checked out before you blow every fuse in the street. :shock: Alternatively, British Gas can supply a £799 fast-charge kit that can fully charge the car in four hours.
If that sounds a lot for a plug and cable, brace yourself for the £32,250 starting price, which puts it in the Jaguar/Audi/BMW bracket, where it does not belong. Like Toyota's Prius, the Ampera has evidently been subjected to rigorous build standards and its interior quality is well above the Vauxhall norm; but it remains an expensive four-seater with average driving characteristics and a technological set-up that might baffle James Watt.
None of this will matter, however, the next time the call goes out to fill up the jerry cans. 8)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/col ... ow-it.html
Neil Lyndon explains the inner workings of Vauxhall's extended range electric car, the Ampera.
By Neil Lyndon
11:06AM BST 12 Apr 2012
Anybody who owns a Vauxhall Ampera will have been blithely indifferent to the recent fuel crisis. No jerry-can angst for them. If they drive less than 25 miles to work, they will have sailed past the queues at the pumps with a merry (zero emissions) wave, recharging the car at home overnight with about £1 worth of electricity. No doubt they are sharply conscious of these benefits, but they probably don't have a clue how the Ampera actually works. And they are not alone.
"You're still getting it wrong," a representative of the company chided the press at the launch. "I can assure you, the generator doesn't recharge the battery."
This may not be entirely the fault of the hacks. If motoring writers, who share lifelong professional interests in cars, have trouble making sense of a new model, it's probably quite difficult to understand. A panel of motoring journalists recently annointed the Ampera European Car of the Year; but it's possible that they didn't get it, either.
It's easier to say what the Ampera isn't, rather than what it is. It isn't a conventionally powered car, though it does have a 1.4-litre petrol engine. It isn't a petrol-electric hybrid, even though it does contain a lithium-ion battery pack and a pair of electric motors. It isn't even a five-seater, though it's a sizeable car.
Vauxhall makes what appears to be a simple claim for the Ampera, saying that it is "the first electric vehicle suitable for everyday use" because it does away with "range anxiety". We can get our heads around this statement, no bother. It's common knowledge that electric vehicles have been hampered by the limited range provided by batteries – usually not more than about 100 miles – and the time they take to recharge. Many have to be plugged in all night before they are fully charged, although they can be topped up at the few recharging points that exist.
Naturally, these limitations induce anxiety. Many times I have been driving an electric car in winter when the range indicator suddenly drops below the distance to my home. In a near panic, I have to switch off the radio, air-conditioning and heated rear-window and crawl back at under 40mph.
The Ampera does away with these fears. Its 150bhp electric drive unit may be capable only of 25-50 miles when taking power solely from the battery pack, but when that range is exhausted, the "range extender" kicks in. The 86bhp petrol engine takes over, not by supplying power to the transmission system but by generating electricity which drives the wheels. In that mode, the Ampera can run for a further 310 miles before the tank is empty. You can plug the Ampera into a domestic supply using a three-pin plug, but you should get your wiring checked out before you blow every fuse in the street. :shock: Alternatively, British Gas can supply a £799 fast-charge kit that can fully charge the car in four hours.
If that sounds a lot for a plug and cable, brace yourself for the £32,250 starting price, which puts it in the Jaguar/Audi/BMW bracket, where it does not belong. Like Toyota's Prius, the Ampera has evidently been subjected to rigorous build standards and its interior quality is well above the Vauxhall norm; but it remains an expensive four-seater with average driving characteristics and a technological set-up that might baffle James Watt.
None of this will matter, however, the next time the call goes out to fill up the jerry cans. 8)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/col ... ow-it.html
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Look what the bright sparks at Jaguar have come up with: The ultimate electric car inspired by the iconic E-Type
By Tom Gardner
PUBLISHED: 20:48, 5 May 2012 | UPDATED: 23:47, 5 May 2012
If this stunning electronic concept car drives half as well as it looks Jaguar should be able to convert even the most ardent petrol heads to battery power.
The XKX is expected to be unveiled to the world soon and provide a glimpse of the astonishing cutting-edge science which will be driving cars of the future.
Inspired by the iconic E-Type, made between 1961 and 1975 and recently voted the most beautiful car ever, the sleek car boasts some extraordinary features.
The body of the XKX is covered by a layer of so called piezoelectric cells which helps recharge the batteries from the force of the air flowing over the body.
This layers of microscopic ripples are stimulated by the pressure and friction of the wind which increases the faster the car travels.
It is hoped this radical technology will recoup some of the near 60per cent energy lost from forcing the vehicle through the air.
Efficiency and performance were a top priority for designer Marin Myftiu, with great attention to aerodynamics.
Large side deflector intakes at the front were created in order to carry more air to the rear of the car, thus cutting drag.
The mirrors also fold into the body work to prevent them from being damaged.
It is unlikely this vehicle will even be put into production, but elements of the design are expected to be incorporated into Jaguar’s future cars.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z1u4wiH0I6
By Tom Gardner
PUBLISHED: 20:48, 5 May 2012 | UPDATED: 23:47, 5 May 2012
If this stunning electronic concept car drives half as well as it looks Jaguar should be able to convert even the most ardent petrol heads to battery power.
The XKX is expected to be unveiled to the world soon and provide a glimpse of the astonishing cutting-edge science which will be driving cars of the future.
Inspired by the iconic E-Type, made between 1961 and 1975 and recently voted the most beautiful car ever, the sleek car boasts some extraordinary features.
The body of the XKX is covered by a layer of so called piezoelectric cells which helps recharge the batteries from the force of the air flowing over the body.
This layers of microscopic ripples are stimulated by the pressure and friction of the wind which increases the faster the car travels.
It is hoped this radical technology will recoup some of the near 60per cent energy lost from forcing the vehicle through the air.
Efficiency and performance were a top priority for designer Marin Myftiu, with great attention to aerodynamics.
Large side deflector intakes at the front were created in order to carry more air to the rear of the car, thus cutting drag.
The mirrors also fold into the body work to prevent them from being damaged.
It is unlikely this vehicle will even be put into production, but elements of the design are expected to be incorporated into Jaguar’s future cars.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z1u4wiH0I6
Anome
Bibliomancer
- Joined
- May 23, 2002
- Messages
- 5,528
- Location
- Left, and to the Back
I think that looks great. But nothing like an E-Type, to be honest. Still, wouldn't say no.
I'm still holding out for a diesel electric, or better yet a gas-turbine driven electric. (Putting a charging point for a plug-in electric in the garage of my building would be problematic at best.)
I'm still holding out for a diesel electric, or better yet a gas-turbine driven electric. (Putting a charging point for a plug-in electric in the garage of my building would be problematic at best.)
Analogue Boy
Bar 6
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Messages
- 13,546
There's an excellent movie documentary 'Who Killed the Electric Car' which shows a successful test leasing of the EV1 being brought to an end and the cars taken from their owners (who really wanted to keep them) and then being totally crushed and shredded.
Apart from the fact there's still hundreds of trillions of oil left to exploit, for the manufacturer there was another big problem relating to servicing and spares. There was essentially just one moving part, no air filters, radiators or other gubbins. I guess we'll only see a mass market electric car when they can add enough additional (redundant) parts to go wrong and need replacing to keep their service industry rolling.
If you've ever bought from a dealer, think about the garage at the side of the glossy showroom and how the servicing, repairs and the labour costs must fill the coffers of the manufacturer.
Apart from the fact there's still hundreds of trillions of oil left to exploit, for the manufacturer there was another big problem relating to servicing and spares. There was essentially just one moving part, no air filters, radiators or other gubbins. I guess we'll only see a mass market electric car when they can add enough additional (redundant) parts to go wrong and need replacing to keep their service industry rolling.
If you've ever bought from a dealer, think about the garage at the side of the glossy showroom and how the servicing, repairs and the labour costs must fill the coffers of the manufacturer.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Drayson Racing electric car sets new world speed record
By Leo Kelion, Technology reporter
Drayson Racing Technologies has broken the world land speed record for a lightweight electric car.
Its Lola B12 69/EV vehicle hit a top speed of 204.2mph (328.6km/h) at a racetrack at RAF Elvington in Yorkshire.
Chief executive Lord Drayson, who was behind the wheel, said the achievement was designed to highlight electronic vehicle technology's potential.
The previous 175mph record was set by Battery Box General Electric in 1974.
Drayson Racing is not the only electric vehicle-maker hoping to use motorsport to spur on adoption of the technology.
Last week Nissan unveiled the Zeod RC (Zero Emission On Demand Racing Car), which can switch between electric and petrol power.
The firm intends to enter the vehicle into next year's Le Mans 24 race saying the competition would act as a "challenging test bed" for technologies that could eventually find their way into road cars.
Drayson Racing was founded in 2007 by self-declared "car nut" Paul Drayson, who was then a minister in the Labour government.
The firm, based in Kidlington, Oxfordshire, works with others to develop more sustainable automotive technologies and uses motorsport competitions as a means to focus its efforts.
In order to qualify for an attempt on the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile's (FIA) world electric land speed record it had to make its vehicle weigh less than 1,000kg (2,204lb) without the driver.
To do this it adapted a Le Mans Series car it had previously designed which originally had a bio-ethanol fuel engine and replaced the part with a lightweight 20 kilowatt hour battery offering 850 horsepower.
It also adapted the vehicle's chassis, which is made out of recycled carbon fibre, to minimise air friction.
"What it, I hope, shows to people is just what the future potential of electric cars is," Lord Drayson told the BBC shortly after his record-breaking time was confirmed.
"Obviously this is a very special racing car, but by setting this new world record here in Britain we say two things.
"One it is a pointer to the future - the technology that we developed for this car will filter down to the cars we use every day.
"And secondly it's a message about how here in the UK we're a world leader with this technology. We've led motorsport engineering, now we're also leading with electric motorsport engineering."
Google's chairman Eric Schmidt spent two hours at the race track watching practice runs but was not able to stay for the record-setting drive.
"Google has a very active R&D programme with regard to electric vehicle technology so it's great that one of the world's leading technology companies came to our event today," Lord Drayson added.
"It was lovely meeting him."
Drayson Racing's attention will now switch to the launch of the FIA's Formula E championship, which is due to begin in September next year.
London will host the first electric car race. Rome, Miami, Beijing and Rio de Janeiro are among the other seven locations.
A different vehicle - similar to a Formula One machine - is being developed for the firm by Singapore's Spark and Surrey-based McLaren for the first year of the competition.
However, Drayson Racing plans to build its own machine for the 2015 competition using some of the same components used in its record breaking Lola B12 69/EV.
One analyst said such such efforts were an excellent way to promote electric cars, but questioned how many of the technologies being developed would actually find their way onto the road.
"I think that any kind of competition-led design will have spin-offs - it might be that electric motors become more efficient," said Paul Newton, auto analyst at IHS Global Insight.
"The problem is that making an electric car go faster is relatively straightforward.
"Making it go further and become more practical is infinitely more difficult, and that's down to the basic physics of how batteries store energy and release it."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23051252
By Leo Kelion, Technology reporter
Drayson Racing Technologies has broken the world land speed record for a lightweight electric car.
Its Lola B12 69/EV vehicle hit a top speed of 204.2mph (328.6km/h) at a racetrack at RAF Elvington in Yorkshire.
Chief executive Lord Drayson, who was behind the wheel, said the achievement was designed to highlight electronic vehicle technology's potential.
The previous 175mph record was set by Battery Box General Electric in 1974.
Drayson Racing is not the only electric vehicle-maker hoping to use motorsport to spur on adoption of the technology.
Last week Nissan unveiled the Zeod RC (Zero Emission On Demand Racing Car), which can switch between electric and petrol power.
The firm intends to enter the vehicle into next year's Le Mans 24 race saying the competition would act as a "challenging test bed" for technologies that could eventually find their way into road cars.
Drayson Racing was founded in 2007 by self-declared "car nut" Paul Drayson, who was then a minister in the Labour government.
The firm, based in Kidlington, Oxfordshire, works with others to develop more sustainable automotive technologies and uses motorsport competitions as a means to focus its efforts.
In order to qualify for an attempt on the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile's (FIA) world electric land speed record it had to make its vehicle weigh less than 1,000kg (2,204lb) without the driver.
To do this it adapted a Le Mans Series car it had previously designed which originally had a bio-ethanol fuel engine and replaced the part with a lightweight 20 kilowatt hour battery offering 850 horsepower.
It also adapted the vehicle's chassis, which is made out of recycled carbon fibre, to minimise air friction.
"What it, I hope, shows to people is just what the future potential of electric cars is," Lord Drayson told the BBC shortly after his record-breaking time was confirmed.
"Obviously this is a very special racing car, but by setting this new world record here in Britain we say two things.
"One it is a pointer to the future - the technology that we developed for this car will filter down to the cars we use every day.
"And secondly it's a message about how here in the UK we're a world leader with this technology. We've led motorsport engineering, now we're also leading with electric motorsport engineering."
Google's chairman Eric Schmidt spent two hours at the race track watching practice runs but was not able to stay for the record-setting drive.
"Google has a very active R&D programme with regard to electric vehicle technology so it's great that one of the world's leading technology companies came to our event today," Lord Drayson added.
"It was lovely meeting him."
Drayson Racing's attention will now switch to the launch of the FIA's Formula E championship, which is due to begin in September next year.
London will host the first electric car race. Rome, Miami, Beijing and Rio de Janeiro are among the other seven locations.
A different vehicle - similar to a Formula One machine - is being developed for the firm by Singapore's Spark and Surrey-based McLaren for the first year of the competition.
However, Drayson Racing plans to build its own machine for the 2015 competition using some of the same components used in its record breaking Lola B12 69/EV.
One analyst said such such efforts were an excellent way to promote electric cars, but questioned how many of the technologies being developed would actually find their way onto the road.
"I think that any kind of competition-led design will have spin-offs - it might be that electric motors become more efficient," said Paul Newton, auto analyst at IHS Global Insight.
"The problem is that making an electric car go faster is relatively straightforward.
"Making it go further and become more practical is infinitely more difficult, and that's down to the basic physics of how batteries store energy and release it."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23051252
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
Land Rover goes electric at the Eden Project
Land Rover's experimental battery-powered Defender is doing the donkey work at the Eden Project.
By Andrew English
6:15PM BST 08 Aug 2013
It thundered as I drove to the Eden Project to drive Land Rover's experimental battery-powered Defender. Electricity crackled across the sky above St Austell; the kind of natural energy you expect Tim Smit's 12-year-old greenhouse project to be using.
Those familiar greenhouse domes, designed by Nicholas Grimshaw, who also designed the moss-roofed Rolls-Royce factory in Sussex, already recycle water for the tropical bio-dome and toilets. The Project also uses Cornish-renewable electricity and has applied for and received planning permission for a geothermal electricity plant for the Project and 5,000 homes.
The whining green vehicle grinding up to meet me doesn't yet use geothermal energy, but it's a lot greener in paint colour and emissions than the twin New Holland tractors, which normally tug the four-carriage road trains rated at up to 12 tonnes around the 13 per cent gradients on the site. Meet Land Rover's newest experimental vehicle, a battery (actually twin battery)-powered Defender. I drove it round the Eden Project with a nominal load of five adults rather than the usual 64. It's slow, but sure in its abilities, even on the steepest slopes.
Attach a train to anything and the attention of 21st man and boy are galvanised and so it proved with the visitors pouring past us at a pedestrian crossing. "Look, it's a Land Rover pulling a train," one man pointed out to his goggle-eyed son.
With just under a million visitors a year, the Eden Project has a lot more people to impress as it moves them around the steep-sided former clay pit. "We reckon that at least a quarter of visitors travel on the road trains," explains Ben Foster, communications officer. So that's between 250,000 and 300,000 people a year who will travel on a Land Rover-pulled road train."
"The land train started at the construction of the site," explains Ian Hillyard, land-train supervisor. "It was the cheapest, simplest and most cost-effective way of moving people around the site and still is."
Initially the tractors used 100 per cent biodiesel, but that became increasingly difficult to source and store. "We were very excited to find an alternative source of traction," says Hillyard. "We've been surprised how effective the Defender is, especially the amount of torque it supplies."
In fact the 94bhp/250lb ft Defenders aren't fantastically powerful, but use the characteristics of the Nidex Switch Reluctance electric motor, (maximum torque at zero revolutions), and the vehicle's transfer-box gearset to multiply that torque through all four wheels.
"In fact, we've had to dial the torque back a bit," explains Jeremy Greenwood, chief engineer on this research project. "Otherwise it will spin the wheels even with the diff lock engaged."
Switch reluctance (SR) motors aren't the most common electric drives in the automotive world, which prefers AC synchronous motors. They are, however, robust, simple and easy to control, with non-rotating windings and are capable of high rotating speeds. SR motors also offer a limp-home ability if one winding goes down, and it are made of fairly cheap and accessible materials such as iron and copper, rather than rare-earth magnets.
SR motors operate from a switched direct current supply, which supplies current in discreet and accurate periods to rotate the motor in a precise series of movements. That certainly proves the case with the Land Rover, which is astonishingly controllable at very low speeds. At one point, we crept at less-than walking speed up a 13 per cent gradient with all four carriages attached.
These motors can display a characteristic hunting, or torque ripple, which the Land Rover also exhibits. The peculiar whoa, whoa is felt rather than heard, but Greenwood says it is being worked on. There's also a fair bit of whining from the motor and driveline, although it's not unpleasant and is, in some senses, a perfect example of the kind of motor noise the car industry is looking for to inform the driver and warn the public of an electric vehicle's approach.
In all it's been a fine job of refining some pretty agricultural systems by Paul Feetenby of Pi Innovo, the Cambridge firm which did the software mapping.
The rest of the driveline is pretty standard electric car, if that's possible to say. There's a 410kg, 300v, 27kWh lithium-ion battery pack and the current converter, which sit under the bonnet. The heavy-duty cycle means Land Rover has fitted an additional battery pack in the pickup bed behind the cab. No battery cooling is required as the 90 China Aviation Lithium Battery Co (Calb), lithium-phosphate prismatic cells are pretty robust. The motor sits in a ribbed casing between the front-seat passengers with the single reduction gear on the back driving the two-speed transfer 'box.
On the rest of the seven-strong, single-battery experimental fleet, the normal range is about 50 miles, with a 12.5-mile reserve. Top speed is restricted to 70mph. Recharge time is 10 hours using a three-amp household supply, four with a 32A fast charger.
In practice, the twin-battery Eden Project Defender is left on charge overnight. No one knows yet how it will fare in full active service because testing has only just begun. It's a measure of the vehicle's efficient scavenging of momentum that in tests at Land Rover's Gaydon development centre, the battery Defender will travel further cycling between zero to 30mph than it will at a steady 40mph. Travelling down one slope, with maximum regeneration dialled into the hill-descent control, we saw 30kW flowing back into the battery.
The project was kick-started by a South African safari park, which wanted a quiet, torquey and environmental vehicle to carry visitors on a game sightseeing tour. They built their own electric Defender and then invited Land Rover to have a look at it. Greenwood was suitably impressed.
"We spent a bit of time sorting out their vehicle, then our management asked, 'what else can you do with that technology?'." He says. His engineers didn't need any more encouragement...
The rest of the experimental fleet are station wagons and Land Rover is looking for placements, with options including another game park and maybe some all-terrain work where high-torque battery power would be a boon. Obviously, a known duty cycle and back-to-base operation is essential, but in those circumstances the battery Defender could be a much more environmental choice than a diesel.
This doesn't come cheap - Greenwood says the conversion hardware costs over £20,000, with the batteries between £10,000 and £14,000 each as one-off supplies."Factor in the fuel costs for the tractors and the payback could be between two and three years," he says. Using off-peak electricity, a full fill-up for each battery is about £1.30, so not that much short of the cost of a litre of diesel. It's not something you'd want for your farm, but for pulling 64 people on a road train round a former clay pit, not much else is better or more environmentally-friendly than this car.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/102 ... oject.html
Land Rover's experimental battery-powered Defender is doing the donkey work at the Eden Project.
By Andrew English
6:15PM BST 08 Aug 2013
It thundered as I drove to the Eden Project to drive Land Rover's experimental battery-powered Defender. Electricity crackled across the sky above St Austell; the kind of natural energy you expect Tim Smit's 12-year-old greenhouse project to be using.
Those familiar greenhouse domes, designed by Nicholas Grimshaw, who also designed the moss-roofed Rolls-Royce factory in Sussex, already recycle water for the tropical bio-dome and toilets. The Project also uses Cornish-renewable electricity and has applied for and received planning permission for a geothermal electricity plant for the Project and 5,000 homes.
The whining green vehicle grinding up to meet me doesn't yet use geothermal energy, but it's a lot greener in paint colour and emissions than the twin New Holland tractors, which normally tug the four-carriage road trains rated at up to 12 tonnes around the 13 per cent gradients on the site. Meet Land Rover's newest experimental vehicle, a battery (actually twin battery)-powered Defender. I drove it round the Eden Project with a nominal load of five adults rather than the usual 64. It's slow, but sure in its abilities, even on the steepest slopes.
Attach a train to anything and the attention of 21st man and boy are galvanised and so it proved with the visitors pouring past us at a pedestrian crossing. "Look, it's a Land Rover pulling a train," one man pointed out to his goggle-eyed son.
With just under a million visitors a year, the Eden Project has a lot more people to impress as it moves them around the steep-sided former clay pit. "We reckon that at least a quarter of visitors travel on the road trains," explains Ben Foster, communications officer. So that's between 250,000 and 300,000 people a year who will travel on a Land Rover-pulled road train."
"The land train started at the construction of the site," explains Ian Hillyard, land-train supervisor. "It was the cheapest, simplest and most cost-effective way of moving people around the site and still is."
Initially the tractors used 100 per cent biodiesel, but that became increasingly difficult to source and store. "We were very excited to find an alternative source of traction," says Hillyard. "We've been surprised how effective the Defender is, especially the amount of torque it supplies."
In fact the 94bhp/250lb ft Defenders aren't fantastically powerful, but use the characteristics of the Nidex Switch Reluctance electric motor, (maximum torque at zero revolutions), and the vehicle's transfer-box gearset to multiply that torque through all four wheels.
"In fact, we've had to dial the torque back a bit," explains Jeremy Greenwood, chief engineer on this research project. "Otherwise it will spin the wheels even with the diff lock engaged."
Switch reluctance (SR) motors aren't the most common electric drives in the automotive world, which prefers AC synchronous motors. They are, however, robust, simple and easy to control, with non-rotating windings and are capable of high rotating speeds. SR motors also offer a limp-home ability if one winding goes down, and it are made of fairly cheap and accessible materials such as iron and copper, rather than rare-earth magnets.
SR motors operate from a switched direct current supply, which supplies current in discreet and accurate periods to rotate the motor in a precise series of movements. That certainly proves the case with the Land Rover, which is astonishingly controllable at very low speeds. At one point, we crept at less-than walking speed up a 13 per cent gradient with all four carriages attached.
These motors can display a characteristic hunting, or torque ripple, which the Land Rover also exhibits. The peculiar whoa, whoa is felt rather than heard, but Greenwood says it is being worked on. There's also a fair bit of whining from the motor and driveline, although it's not unpleasant and is, in some senses, a perfect example of the kind of motor noise the car industry is looking for to inform the driver and warn the public of an electric vehicle's approach.
In all it's been a fine job of refining some pretty agricultural systems by Paul Feetenby of Pi Innovo, the Cambridge firm which did the software mapping.
The rest of the driveline is pretty standard electric car, if that's possible to say. There's a 410kg, 300v, 27kWh lithium-ion battery pack and the current converter, which sit under the bonnet. The heavy-duty cycle means Land Rover has fitted an additional battery pack in the pickup bed behind the cab. No battery cooling is required as the 90 China Aviation Lithium Battery Co (Calb), lithium-phosphate prismatic cells are pretty robust. The motor sits in a ribbed casing between the front-seat passengers with the single reduction gear on the back driving the two-speed transfer 'box.
On the rest of the seven-strong, single-battery experimental fleet, the normal range is about 50 miles, with a 12.5-mile reserve. Top speed is restricted to 70mph. Recharge time is 10 hours using a three-amp household supply, four with a 32A fast charger.
In practice, the twin-battery Eden Project Defender is left on charge overnight. No one knows yet how it will fare in full active service because testing has only just begun. It's a measure of the vehicle's efficient scavenging of momentum that in tests at Land Rover's Gaydon development centre, the battery Defender will travel further cycling between zero to 30mph than it will at a steady 40mph. Travelling down one slope, with maximum regeneration dialled into the hill-descent control, we saw 30kW flowing back into the battery.
The project was kick-started by a South African safari park, which wanted a quiet, torquey and environmental vehicle to carry visitors on a game sightseeing tour. They built their own electric Defender and then invited Land Rover to have a look at it. Greenwood was suitably impressed.
"We spent a bit of time sorting out their vehicle, then our management asked, 'what else can you do with that technology?'." He says. His engineers didn't need any more encouragement...
The rest of the experimental fleet are station wagons and Land Rover is looking for placements, with options including another game park and maybe some all-terrain work where high-torque battery power would be a boon. Obviously, a known duty cycle and back-to-base operation is essential, but in those circumstances the battery Defender could be a much more environmental choice than a diesel.
This doesn't come cheap - Greenwood says the conversion hardware costs over £20,000, with the batteries between £10,000 and £14,000 each as one-off supplies."Factor in the fuel costs for the tractors and the payback could be between two and three years," he says. Using off-peak electricity, a full fill-up for each battery is about £1.30, so not that much short of the cost of a litre of diesel. It's not something you'd want for your farm, but for pulling 64 people on a road train round a former clay pit, not much else is better or more environmentally-friendly than this car.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/102 ... oject.html
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
- Messages
- 54,631
More from Eden:
Eden Project feels the benefit of Renault EVs including the 'world's smallest ambulance'
By DanielCL | Posted: July 03, 2017
The Eden Project's electric vehicles, the ZOE, Twizy, and Kangaroo Z.E.
One year on from their introduction, a fleet of 18 electric Renaults has made big inroads into the Eden Project's running costs.
The vehicles are not subject to road tax and have cost Eden only 4.4p per mile to run - equivalent diesel vehicles would cost more than 11p per mile.
Electric vehicles also have the advantage of not having any tailpipe emissions so are able to work inside Eden's biomes where diesel or petrol vehicles can't.
Eden's vehicles include the compact hatchback ZOE, Kangoo Van Z.E.(zero emissions) and a brightly-coloured fleet of Twizy quadricycles.
The Kangoos are used by a variety of Eden teams. The events team use them to help transport people and equipment for high-profile happenings such as last year's Dinosaur Uprising and the forthcoming summer blockbuster Journey Into Space.
The Twizy fleet deputised as Santa Claus's reindeer at Christmas, complete with festive roof antlers.
Events staff also manage large weddings and corporate events and use the Kangoo Van Z.E.s to make sure food, equipment and people are delivered on time.
The ZOEs have proved invaluable in transporting guests around Eden and have played a big role in supporting TV filming at the site in the past year.
etc...
http://www.cornwalllive.com/eden-pr...renaults-evs/story-30421077-detail/story.html
Eden Project feels the benefit of Renault EVs including the 'world's smallest ambulance'
By DanielCL | Posted: July 03, 2017
The Eden Project's electric vehicles, the ZOE, Twizy, and Kangaroo Z.E.
One year on from their introduction, a fleet of 18 electric Renaults has made big inroads into the Eden Project's running costs.
The vehicles are not subject to road tax and have cost Eden only 4.4p per mile to run - equivalent diesel vehicles would cost more than 11p per mile.
Electric vehicles also have the advantage of not having any tailpipe emissions so are able to work inside Eden's biomes where diesel or petrol vehicles can't.
Eden's vehicles include the compact hatchback ZOE, Kangoo Van Z.E.(zero emissions) and a brightly-coloured fleet of Twizy quadricycles.
The Kangoos are used by a variety of Eden teams. The events team use them to help transport people and equipment for high-profile happenings such as last year's Dinosaur Uprising and the forthcoming summer blockbuster Journey Into Space.
The Twizy fleet deputised as Santa Claus's reindeer at Christmas, complete with festive roof antlers.
Events staff also manage large weddings and corporate events and use the Kangoo Van Z.E.s to make sure food, equipment and people are delivered on time.
The ZOEs have proved invaluable in transporting guests around Eden and have played a big role in supporting TV filming at the site in the past year.
etc...
http://www.cornwalllive.com/eden-pr...renaults-evs/story-30421077-detail/story.html
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2016
- Messages
- 7,085
No one seems to have considered the crash aspect.
What happens if you are trapped in your electric car and the Lithium battery pack has been damaged ?
Lithium batteries are notoriously temperamental. Far more so than any other type. You MUST NOT puncture one.
So when the battery you are probably sat on has been ripped in half, what do you do ?
You can't use water to extinguish a fire.
Just wondered.
INT21.
What happens if you are trapped in your electric car and the Lithium battery pack has been damaged ?
Lithium batteries are notoriously temperamental. Far more so than any other type. You MUST NOT puncture one.
So when the battery you are probably sat on has been ripped in half, what do you do ?
You can't use water to extinguish a fire.
Just wondered.
INT21.
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2001
- Messages
- 51,689
- Location
- Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
CO2 or powder extinguisher?
RaM
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 3,804
- Location
- NW UK
Last summer I pulled onto the North bound services just North of Exeter and
noticed a Leaf on charge at one of the charge points, first one I had knowingly seen,
it had Irish plates so it stood out. came out after a brew and the Leaf had gone,
set sail North at about 70 thinking I will catch that up but no pulled off at 1st or
second services North of Birmingham and there it is same Leaf on charge, quick brew
come out and it's gone again cruised up the M6 at about 70 but did not see it again
likely
turned off towards Anglesey and a ferry to Ireland, they seem to be more practical
at least for my brew rich driving than I thought I was quite impressed.
they say the new leaf with the option big battery can do 150 miles on a charge and
the 2018 model could make 300 miles but I doubt it will be anywhere near my price
range for some years to come.
noticed a Leaf on charge at one of the charge points, first one I had knowingly seen,
it had Irish plates so it stood out. came out after a brew and the Leaf had gone,
set sail North at about 70 thinking I will catch that up but no pulled off at 1st or
second services North of Birmingham and there it is same Leaf on charge, quick brew
come out and it's gone again cruised up the M6 at about 70 but did not see it again
likely
turned off towards Anglesey and a ferry to Ireland, they seem to be more practical
at least for my brew rich driving than I thought I was quite impressed.
they say the new leaf with the option big battery can do 150 miles on a charge and
the 2018 model could make 300 miles but I doubt it will be anywhere near my price
range for some years to come.
Peripart
Antediluvian
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2005
- Messages
- 6,737
There's a house I occasionally pass which has three Leafs (Leaves?) on the drive, all white in colour. Knowing that "range anxiety" is a thing, I did wonder whether they have one for every day of the week, and are saving up for the other 4...
Coal
Account Retired
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2015
- Messages
- 9,852
I thought "range anxiety" was something that happened to men of a certain age...
mikfez
Generally Bewildered
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2006
- Messages
- 497
- Location
- East Yorkshire
The range depends upon the ambient temperature too - but they don't make that too widely known.
I bought one for commuting a 30 mile round trip with an average speed of 35mph - with the largest battery & charger combination I only managed 120 miles out of a full charge in the summer and 90 miles in the winter - this was with the Eco mode and brake regeneration on.
I was unable to use it to visit my mum 50 miles away in the winter as there are no fast chargers on the journey. On long journeys you just hope that chargers are free and working - you often find non-electric cars parked in the bays - Nissan will lend you a petrol car for 2 weeks every 12 months (not much confidence there either).
Range anxiety is a real problem and makes the journey a nightmare.
On the plus side there's no VED and it costs about 2p per mile (if charged at home with a £300 charger - optional extra) and servicing is £99.
I bought one for commuting a 30 mile round trip with an average speed of 35mph - with the largest battery & charger combination I only managed 120 miles out of a full charge in the summer and 90 miles in the winter - this was with the Eco mode and brake regeneration on.
I was unable to use it to visit my mum 50 miles away in the winter as there are no fast chargers on the journey. On long journeys you just hope that chargers are free and working - you often find non-electric cars parked in the bays - Nissan will lend you a petrol car for 2 weeks every 12 months (not much confidence there either).
Range anxiety is a real problem and makes the journey a nightmare.
On the plus side there's no VED and it costs about 2p per mile (if charged at home with a £300 charger - optional extra) and servicing is £99.
RaM
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 3,804
- Location
- NW UK
Very interesting to read something from someone that actually drives one
ta for the post.
Thanks 
Ermintruder
The greatest risk is to risk nothing at all...
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 6,206
I understand from a friend & colleague who drives an electric vehicle that in the winter-time, to defrost/demist the windows, some manufacturers provide a modified electric hairdrier to perform the task. This is slow, ineffective, and kills the battery on winter mornings (a period of time when battery endurance is also low).
I'm always keen on the use of electrical and electronic engineering to provide real-life solutions to real-world problems.
However....
Electrical vehicles are frequently-impractical outwith perfect road and weather conditions. They are best-suited to short urban journeys.
Energy densities and motor power torques are still unrealistic for being able to offer electric vehicle alternatives for anything beyond short-range 'toy' consumer use.
And don't forget Hammond's car fire....the instantaneous explosive power from most of the chemical duos used for electric car batteries is like a bomb in waiting....
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2001
- Messages
- 51,689
- Location
- Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Yep. I was shocked by that. Not the fact that Hammond can't drive without crashing, but more the explosion thing.